Help me help my friend through addiction
May 25, 2015 8:22 AM Subscribe
A good friend has a drug problem (pain pills & xanax). He has been taking Subutex for a few weeks now and will be crashing at my place temporarily. How do I best help him through this? Tips, tricks, advice... things I should expect?
Snowflakes... questions at the end if you want to skip it:
Friend is in his mid-30s & struggling to find his place in the world after a divorce and leaving a career path. He's quite intelligent and presents a front of high self-esteem, but it's actually quite low. He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that. He also needs to feel in control and, it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use.
This is not his first time through this.
He quit pain pills several years ago with the help of Suboxone and the depression & anxiety (more than the physical detox, though he's not looking forward to that, either) that followed was pretty rough. He managed to stay away from pain pills (mostly) for the next few years but relapsed this winter. He has occasional issues with Xanax but was clean from last June until Dec/Jan. Though he hasn't said as much, it seems the anxiety of having to quit again, once he discovered just a bit of dependence/withdrawal, made him use even more.
An opportunity came up to travel abroad and visit family. He's seeing if he can acclimate to the culture and, if so, he'll get a job & move there. He is hoping for a fresh start. He started the Subutex a couple days into his trip. I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax - he took a bunch with him, but from what I could tell it was not enough to cover what he was regularly using & definitely not enough if there was a binge.
We've not known each other long (18 months) but we became quite close (nonromantic) quickly. As he started using again, he started distancing himself from me. I knew not to push and to let him be. Still, I found opportunities to remind him that I was there and of the choices he would have made just a few months before. I made it clear that I still cared about & believed in him, but that I did not care for or trust the drugs. I gave him his space. Just before he left, he asked for help in his way. (Not directly, but it was clear by coming to me and opening up.)
He'll be back for a bit (a couple weeks to a couple months) while he figures out his next step (likely moving, probably abroad). I offered him a place to stay. His local family is no longer an option - he's been there a year and I'm sure they've seen signs of his drug use (he hasn't said as much, but...). His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
He is not in a formal program and isn't the sort to seek that out. He is underemployed & without insurance. I'd suggest therapy (for the anxiety and underlying issues) through county services, but it takes a couple weeks to get in for an initial consult.
So... now I have to figure out how to help but not enable and how to make my home a safe haven for both of us.
1) He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control with my desire for information?
2) What sorts of conditions, if any, do I make on him for staying here?
3) He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled). If he gets it filled, do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
4) I know Subutex helps with the physical withdrawal, but what can I expect with the mental component?
5) I don't know his plans with the Subutex. The timing of the appointment and the expense may force him to quit cold turkey. (He could only get a prescription for a month and the earliest he can get an appointment would be 5 weeks after he started, possibly 6 weeks.) I know it's best to taper slowly, but that just might not be an option if he couldn't pace out what he had. All the advice I've read is geared towards the individual going through it, not the folks on the sidelines. How can I help him if he goes cold turkey?
6) I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy, but he is a "do-er" and likes talking psych subjects on occasion. This seems like something he may pick up & flip through on restless nights and may provide some support. I don't want him to think I'm making recovery a theme or that I'm going to be on his case about it (see independence & control), but I do want him to know I will be supportive & understanding. I'd also like him to have some additional tools in his toolbox. Is this too much or too intrusive?
7) What am I not thinking about?
I really do appreciate any/all help & advice here. I've seen addiction & recovery before, but never with someone so close. I know it's up to him. I know I can't "fix" him (though, man, if I could just snap my fingers and make this all better!). I just want to provide a safe & comfortable environment so that he can keep climbing up out of this hole.
Being anonymous, I can understand not wanting to be oh so public with this. If you would rather reach out via email you can: helpmehelpmyfriend.askme@gmail.com
Snowflakes... questions at the end if you want to skip it:
Friend is in his mid-30s & struggling to find his place in the world after a divorce and leaving a career path. He's quite intelligent and presents a front of high self-esteem, but it's actually quite low. He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that. He also needs to feel in control and, it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use.
This is not his first time through this.
He quit pain pills several years ago with the help of Suboxone and the depression & anxiety (more than the physical detox, though he's not looking forward to that, either) that followed was pretty rough. He managed to stay away from pain pills (mostly) for the next few years but relapsed this winter. He has occasional issues with Xanax but was clean from last June until Dec/Jan. Though he hasn't said as much, it seems the anxiety of having to quit again, once he discovered just a bit of dependence/withdrawal, made him use even more.
An opportunity came up to travel abroad and visit family. He's seeing if he can acclimate to the culture and, if so, he'll get a job & move there. He is hoping for a fresh start. He started the Subutex a couple days into his trip. I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax - he took a bunch with him, but from what I could tell it was not enough to cover what he was regularly using & definitely not enough if there was a binge.
We've not known each other long (18 months) but we became quite close (nonromantic) quickly. As he started using again, he started distancing himself from me. I knew not to push and to let him be. Still, I found opportunities to remind him that I was there and of the choices he would have made just a few months before. I made it clear that I still cared about & believed in him, but that I did not care for or trust the drugs. I gave him his space. Just before he left, he asked for help in his way. (Not directly, but it was clear by coming to me and opening up.)
He'll be back for a bit (a couple weeks to a couple months) while he figures out his next step (likely moving, probably abroad). I offered him a place to stay. His local family is no longer an option - he's been there a year and I'm sure they've seen signs of his drug use (he hasn't said as much, but...). His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
He is not in a formal program and isn't the sort to seek that out. He is underemployed & without insurance. I'd suggest therapy (for the anxiety and underlying issues) through county services, but it takes a couple weeks to get in for an initial consult.
So... now I have to figure out how to help but not enable and how to make my home a safe haven for both of us.
1) He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control with my desire for information?
2) What sorts of conditions, if any, do I make on him for staying here?
3) He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled). If he gets it filled, do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
4) I know Subutex helps with the physical withdrawal, but what can I expect with the mental component?
5) I don't know his plans with the Subutex. The timing of the appointment and the expense may force him to quit cold turkey. (He could only get a prescription for a month and the earliest he can get an appointment would be 5 weeks after he started, possibly 6 weeks.) I know it's best to taper slowly, but that just might not be an option if he couldn't pace out what he had. All the advice I've read is geared towards the individual going through it, not the folks on the sidelines. How can I help him if he goes cold turkey?
6) I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy, but he is a "do-er" and likes talking psych subjects on occasion. This seems like something he may pick up & flip through on restless nights and may provide some support. I don't want him to think I'm making recovery a theme or that I'm going to be on his case about it (see independence & control), but I do want him to know I will be supportive & understanding. I'd also like him to have some additional tools in his toolbox. Is this too much or too intrusive?
7) What am I not thinking about?
I really do appreciate any/all help & advice here. I've seen addiction & recovery before, but never with someone so close. I know it's up to him. I know I can't "fix" him (though, man, if I could just snap my fingers and make this all better!). I just want to provide a safe & comfortable environment so that he can keep climbing up out of this hole.
Being anonymous, I can understand not wanting to be oh so public with this. If you would rather reach out via email you can: helpmehelpmyfriend.askme@gmail.com
Think about why his family is no longer an option and how he's burned enough bridges to be couchsurfing with someone he hasn't known long. Look into Nar Anon groups in your area.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:42 AM on May 25, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 8:42 AM on May 25, 2015 [14 favorites]
Your heart in a great place. Bless your heart.
Don't do this.
There are so many red flags here. Please read on and see what advice you'd give to someone else posting this:
* This is not his first time through this. (Not promising.)
* We've not known each other long (18 months). (Not long enough to know the full story.)
* He'll be back for a bit (a couple weeks to a couple months) while he figures out his next step (likely moving, probably abroad). (MONTHS??)
* He is underemployed & without insurance. (then how does he save money to move abroad?)
* His local family is no longer an option. (WHY??)
* He is not in a formal program and isn't the sort to seek that out. (Not good at all.)
* He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled.) Didn't you say he has an addiction to Xanax?
* He could only get a prescription for a month and the earliest he can get an appointment would be 5 weeks after he started, possibly 6 weeks. Doesn't seem like this has been thought through very carefully.
* I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy. Then why would you get him a book?
This is a person you've known for less than 2 years. Their family and other friends know enough to not help him. He's underemployed and without insurance. He has nowhere to live. He won't seek out formal help. He has a Xanax addiction and is STILL taking Xanax. He won't read books about recovery.
Again, don't do this. Tell him something came up and you can't let him stay with you.
posted by kinetic at 8:58 AM on May 25, 2015 [23 favorites]
Don't do this.
There are so many red flags here. Please read on and see what advice you'd give to someone else posting this:
* This is not his first time through this. (Not promising.)
* We've not known each other long (18 months). (Not long enough to know the full story.)
* He'll be back for a bit (a couple weeks to a couple months) while he figures out his next step (likely moving, probably abroad). (MONTHS??)
* He is underemployed & without insurance. (then how does he save money to move abroad?)
* His local family is no longer an option. (WHY??)
* He is not in a formal program and isn't the sort to seek that out. (Not good at all.)
* He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled.) Didn't you say he has an addiction to Xanax?
* He could only get a prescription for a month and the earliest he can get an appointment would be 5 weeks after he started, possibly 6 weeks. Doesn't seem like this has been thought through very carefully.
* I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy. Then why would you get him a book?
This is a person you've known for less than 2 years. Their family and other friends know enough to not help him. He's underemployed and without insurance. He has nowhere to live. He won't seek out formal help. He has a Xanax addiction and is STILL taking Xanax. He won't read books about recovery.
Again, don't do this. Tell him something came up and you can't let him stay with you.
posted by kinetic at 8:58 AM on May 25, 2015 [23 favorites]
Xanax addiction can, depending on the dosage, result in full blown convulsions (like epileptic fits) during withdrawl. You need to get some accurate info from your friend as to their recent-ish history with xanax (and any other downers and any history of fits or epilepsy) and then you need to get some real medical advice if going to a facility is not going to happen. Seriously, withdrawl fits can be scary and potentially dangerous events. Even in hospitals, it's tricky.
posted by peacay at 9:03 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by peacay at 9:03 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
You can contact the NAMI helpline at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or info@nami.org to help find local support and assistance.
The NAMI HelpLine is a free service that provides information, referrals and support to people living with a mental health condition, family members and caregivers, mental health providers and the public.SAMSHA offers an online treatment locator and a national helpline (aka Treatment Referral Routing Service) at 1-800-662-HELP (4357).
The referral service is free of charge. If you have no insurance or are underinsured, we will refer you to your state office, which is responsible for state-funded treatment programs. In addition, we can often refer you to facilities that charge on a sliding fee scale or accept Medicare or Medicaid.posted by Little Dawn at 9:22 AM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
What am I not thinking about?
Exit strategy. While I would also be on Team Don't Do This, you're a grown-up and can make your own decisions. However, having someone with a problem and a possible issue with being able to support himself living with you indefinitely is not a recipe for success most of the time. So I'd have a plan for how long this is going to go on for and I'd have some hard and fast "If you start using again these are the household consequences" arrangement. The guy may like structure but addicts are sort of terrible at keeping promises, so be prepared to have to stick to rules in the face of someone telling you they never agreed to this. I agree, hide wallet.
Otherwise house rules should apply like any other roommate situation: Make rules about other people coming over. Make rules about what he does and does not pay for (He buys his own food? He chips in for utilities? He shares the internet? He helps with chores and yard work? He can have people stay over?). You may be inclined to go easy on some of this because he's had a hard time. However especially stuff that is behavior based, it's totally appropriate to have your own boundaries and enforce them. Addicts are terrible with boundaries. Be firm.
I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax
Why would you assume this?
His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
He doesn't belong to you and the way you are talking about this is ... odd. I know you say this is non-romantic but you are very much treating this like a more-than-friends situation. You don't have to say more about this but I wonder if you haven't had a romantic partner and/or family member with a substance abuse problem and may have a slightly odd approach to this particular situation as a result?
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM on May 25, 2015 [18 favorites]
Exit strategy. While I would also be on Team Don't Do This, you're a grown-up and can make your own decisions. However, having someone with a problem and a possible issue with being able to support himself living with you indefinitely is not a recipe for success most of the time. So I'd have a plan for how long this is going to go on for and I'd have some hard and fast "If you start using again these are the household consequences" arrangement. The guy may like structure but addicts are sort of terrible at keeping promises, so be prepared to have to stick to rules in the face of someone telling you they never agreed to this. I agree, hide wallet.
Otherwise house rules should apply like any other roommate situation: Make rules about other people coming over. Make rules about what he does and does not pay for (He buys his own food? He chips in for utilities? He shares the internet? He helps with chores and yard work? He can have people stay over?). You may be inclined to go easy on some of this because he's had a hard time. However especially stuff that is behavior based, it's totally appropriate to have your own boundaries and enforce them. Addicts are terrible with boundaries. Be firm.
I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax
Why would you assume this?
His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
He doesn't belong to you and the way you are talking about this is ... odd. I know you say this is non-romantic but you are very much treating this like a more-than-friends situation. You don't have to say more about this but I wonder if you haven't had a romantic partner and/or family member with a substance abuse problem and may have a slightly odd approach to this particular situation as a result?
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM on May 25, 2015 [18 favorites]
He is not in a formal program and isn't the sort to seek that out.
I wonder if his family would be more willing to help if he overcame this hangup, because it is a hangup at this point.
posted by BibiRose at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wonder if his family would be more willing to help if he overcame this hangup, because it is a hangup at this point.
posted by BibiRose at 9:24 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I too think offering him a place to stay is a terrible idea. Your view of what two months with a perhaps-recovering, perhaps-not addict is naïve at best. Here are some things that come immediately to mind:
* He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that.
* ...it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use.
* Though he hasn't said as much...
* I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax
* Just before he left, he asked for help in his way. (Not directly...)
You are making a lot of assumptions here. Has he actually asked you for help, or are you just volunteering what you think he needs? In my experience, it is best to let people – particularly addicts – to ask for what they need. You cannot read his mind. Wait until he asks for help, and then decide whether or not you can give it.
That includes doling out his Subutex, which is by the way a terrible idea. You aren't his doctor. He needs to figure out how to handle that on his own.
What kind of information do you anticipate needing? I am having a hard time understanding what information you might need. What you should do instead is to determine what is acceptable to you and what isn't. Does he need to pay his fair share? Clean up after himself? Look for a job? Think about living with someone for two months, and let him know what you expect. I would also predetermine how long he will be able to stay, and stick to it.
I have no experience with people using Subutex, so I'll leave those specific questions to others. But let me say this: addicts lie, and they steal. Even when you don't think they will, even when you think they care about you. I know you think none of this will happen to you, but I would be very surprised if it doesn't. Please keep that in mind. If, during his stay, you think something is off, it probably is.
He's a grown-up. He's the one who needs to figure out his recovery, not you. Be supportive – don't do it for him.
posted by lyssabee at 9:26 AM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
* He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that.
* ...it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use.
* Though he hasn't said as much...
* I assume he has also weened himself off of the Xanax
* Just before he left, he asked for help in his way. (Not directly...)
You are making a lot of assumptions here. Has he actually asked you for help, or are you just volunteering what you think he needs? In my experience, it is best to let people – particularly addicts – to ask for what they need. You cannot read his mind. Wait until he asks for help, and then decide whether or not you can give it.
That includes doling out his Subutex, which is by the way a terrible idea. You aren't his doctor. He needs to figure out how to handle that on his own.
What kind of information do you anticipate needing? I am having a hard time understanding what information you might need. What you should do instead is to determine what is acceptable to you and what isn't. Does he need to pay his fair share? Clean up after himself? Look for a job? Think about living with someone for two months, and let him know what you expect. I would also predetermine how long he will be able to stay, and stick to it.
I have no experience with people using Subutex, so I'll leave those specific questions to others. But let me say this: addicts lie, and they steal. Even when you don't think they will, even when you think they care about you. I know you think none of this will happen to you, but I would be very surprised if it doesn't. Please keep that in mind. If, during his stay, you think something is off, it probably is.
He's a grown-up. He's the one who needs to figure out his recovery, not you. Be supportive – don't do it for him.
posted by lyssabee at 9:26 AM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Re . (1) -- that's great that he likes independence and freedom and being in control. However, right now he is not able to be independent, is not free (because: drug addict), and is not in control. That crap should go out the window and he should agree to be very forthcoming with information, etc, while detoxing in your home. You are making a lot of excuses for him. He "needs to feel in control," and thus: rationalizes recreational drug dependence?
Re. (5), opiate withdrawal is not life-threatening. I have joint problems and have been taking opiates for a few years now and a few times I have decided that dosage X is unwise, and, with the support of my physician, gone through withdrawal and rode that out and started again on a new opiate with a new dosage. "Best to taper slowly"...meh...how long does he want to prolong the agony for? Does he actually want to get clean, or is there any chance at all that this is a "I'm going to go on Subutex to try to lower my tolerance so I can keep using, more cheaply" thing?
Withdrawal is usually described as a bad flu. This is sort of accurate in that there is not really a better way to describe it, but it is quite a bit worse than flu. Planned withdrawals, with a doctor on call willing to prescribe anything to alleviate the symptoms, with friends and family dropping off food, in a cozy bed, with bubble baths aplenty, etc, gave me a lot more sympathy for people living under bridges and shooting smack. If I was under a bridge, I would definitely choose to keep using smack until such time as I could get off it while not under a bridge.
With that in mind I would suggest either going full in on helping this person, which should mean removing all valuables from your home, or taking a pass on it. Letting him stay but kicking him out while you are at work is not going to be that helpful.
I'm not really sure what the deal is here from what you've written -- either he will be prescribed Subutex at an appropriate dose, in which case, he is not withdrawing and this is not a big deal and he is still a drug addict, just not one who cops on the street. Or he will not get the Subutex, and... I mean, did he have a plan in mind for getting off the Subutex? Between that and his family being through with him and his friends being bad news, I think a lot of caution is needed here. "Isn't the sort" to seek out a program -- good grief, he should really take what he can get.
Anyway, if you do this and he does actually get off opiates, things include blistering hot baths/showers, really really soft sleeping surfaces, cartoons and comics and other things that request little of your mind while keeping you distracted, beer, grass, various prescriptions (notably: clonidine), junk food, and many of the same comfort what-not you'd want on hand for the flu.
Personally, going through opiate withdrawal, I would choose to Xanax it up. But if you are a pain patient you don't get your jollies from opiates; they are just another medication, not especially fun to take, and there is no mental desire for them. But that is not the case here and you both already know he is not a person who can use prescriptions responsibly. I would really recommend professional help to answer questions like what to do about the Xanax.
This is a hard Q to try to help with in part because there is not enough information -- you don't say if he's got an old Rx he's now getting high with from time to time, or if he is a full-blown junkie who is buying anything he can off the streets and shooting/snorting/smoking/whatever the pills, taking high dosages, etc. Which makes me worry that maybe you don't actually know the extent of the problem. In which case, "something came up and you can't stay here" is a good way to roll. If he has not been happy to volunteer detailed information about the extent of the problem, it is very inappropriate of him to accept help from you, and you should not be helping.
posted by kmennie at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Re. (5), opiate withdrawal is not life-threatening. I have joint problems and have been taking opiates for a few years now and a few times I have decided that dosage X is unwise, and, with the support of my physician, gone through withdrawal and rode that out and started again on a new opiate with a new dosage. "Best to taper slowly"...meh...how long does he want to prolong the agony for? Does he actually want to get clean, or is there any chance at all that this is a "I'm going to go on Subutex to try to lower my tolerance so I can keep using, more cheaply" thing?
Withdrawal is usually described as a bad flu. This is sort of accurate in that there is not really a better way to describe it, but it is quite a bit worse than flu. Planned withdrawals, with a doctor on call willing to prescribe anything to alleviate the symptoms, with friends and family dropping off food, in a cozy bed, with bubble baths aplenty, etc, gave me a lot more sympathy for people living under bridges and shooting smack. If I was under a bridge, I would definitely choose to keep using smack until such time as I could get off it while not under a bridge.
With that in mind I would suggest either going full in on helping this person, which should mean removing all valuables from your home, or taking a pass on it. Letting him stay but kicking him out while you are at work is not going to be that helpful.
I'm not really sure what the deal is here from what you've written -- either he will be prescribed Subutex at an appropriate dose, in which case, he is not withdrawing and this is not a big deal and he is still a drug addict, just not one who cops on the street. Or he will not get the Subutex, and... I mean, did he have a plan in mind for getting off the Subutex? Between that and his family being through with him and his friends being bad news, I think a lot of caution is needed here. "Isn't the sort" to seek out a program -- good grief, he should really take what he can get.
Anyway, if you do this and he does actually get off opiates, things include blistering hot baths/showers, really really soft sleeping surfaces, cartoons and comics and other things that request little of your mind while keeping you distracted, beer, grass, various prescriptions (notably: clonidine), junk food, and many of the same comfort what-not you'd want on hand for the flu.
Personally, going through opiate withdrawal, I would choose to Xanax it up. But if you are a pain patient you don't get your jollies from opiates; they are just another medication, not especially fun to take, and there is no mental desire for them. But that is not the case here and you both already know he is not a person who can use prescriptions responsibly. I would really recommend professional help to answer questions like what to do about the Xanax.
This is a hard Q to try to help with in part because there is not enough information -- you don't say if he's got an old Rx he's now getting high with from time to time, or if he is a full-blown junkie who is buying anything he can off the streets and shooting/snorting/smoking/whatever the pills, taking high dosages, etc. Which makes me worry that maybe you don't actually know the extent of the problem. In which case, "something came up and you can't stay here" is a good way to roll. If he has not been happy to volunteer detailed information about the extent of the problem, it is very inappropriate of him to accept help from you, and you should not be helping.
posted by kmennie at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
"7) What am I not thinking about?"
The list is long!
- You're not a recovery trained professional
- Addicts are master manipulators
- Addicts are usually self-medicating mental illness and/or trauma symptoms
- You are not a mental health trained professional
- Only your friend can help himself
- This business with the prescriptions and you doling out his meds like a doctor or medical professional is NUTS.
- He needs medical supervision.
- You are not a mental health or medical professional.
- It sounds like he's leaving the country? Or maybe some/all of that story is complete bullshit?? (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
- It sounds like he didn't directly ask you for help, he just "opened up" and you filled in the rest. (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
- His local family has had enough of his antics (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
In short, this is not how recovery works. You are a lovely person, but you are not professionally trained for this. Please please do not do this.
Please do not do this. Part of the training I referenced is knowing what your responsibility is towards the person in recovery. You have already failed this part by taking on 1000% more of the burden than he has.
Also. Your insights into his situation and personality may be completely wrong Only your friend can help himself (see: addicts are master manipulators.)
People got to school and train for this for very very good reasons. Be well. Don't do this.
Call a mental health helpline (NAMI headquarter's is great!) and take their advice on how to help your friend. Thank you.
posted by jbenben at 9:46 AM on May 25, 2015 [11 favorites]
The list is long!
- You're not a recovery trained professional
- Addicts are master manipulators
- Addicts are usually self-medicating mental illness and/or trauma symptoms
- You are not a mental health trained professional
- Only your friend can help himself
- This business with the prescriptions and you doling out his meds like a doctor or medical professional is NUTS.
- He needs medical supervision.
- You are not a mental health or medical professional.
- It sounds like he's leaving the country? Or maybe some/all of that story is complete bullshit?? (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
- It sounds like he didn't directly ask you for help, he just "opened up" and you filled in the rest. (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
- His local family has had enough of his antics (SEE: ADDICTS ARE MASTER MANIPULATORS.)
In short, this is not how recovery works. You are a lovely person, but you are not professionally trained for this. Please please do not do this.
Please do not do this. Part of the training I referenced is knowing what your responsibility is towards the person in recovery. You have already failed this part by taking on 1000% more of the burden than he has.
Also. Your insights into his situation and personality may be completely wrong Only your friend can help himself (see: addicts are master manipulators.)
People got to school and train for this for very very good reasons. Be well. Don't do this.
Call a mental health helpline (NAMI headquarter's is great!) and take their advice on how to help your friend. Thank you.
posted by jbenben at 9:46 AM on May 25, 2015 [11 favorites]
What am I not thinking about?
Your own emotional welfare. And your access to a stable home and a quiet and peaceful existence.
Don't do this.
posted by sockermom at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
Your own emotional welfare. And your access to a stable home and a quiet and peaceful existence.
Don't do this.
posted by sockermom at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
Seconding everyone. The thing I see missing from your description is the awareness that addicts lie. The lie about everything: how much they are using, how much they aren't. You cannot know the truth of the situation unless you witness it first hand and even then an addict will try and convince you to see it the way they do.
He has no job, healthcare, family, or housing but he has his drugs. Think about that for a minute. Unless you are in a country where medication is free how is he affording to pay for his scrips?
Please do him a favor ( even if it feels awful at the time) and send him to detox. If he is not willing to detox anywhere but your house that says it all.
I am speaking as a former addict who tortured the hell out of people with my self centered bull shit. Take care of yourself and let others take care of him.
posted by cairnoflore at 10:15 AM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
He has no job, healthcare, family, or housing but he has his drugs. Think about that for a minute. Unless you are in a country where medication is free how is he affording to pay for his scrips?
Please do him a favor ( even if it feels awful at the time) and send him to detox. If he is not willing to detox anywhere but your house that says it all.
I am speaking as a former addict who tortured the hell out of people with my self centered bull shit. Take care of yourself and let others take care of him.
posted by cairnoflore at 10:15 AM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
You might not want an addict staying at your house long enough to establish residency in the eyes of the law. This means you'd have to do an eviction if things turn bad and he refuses to leave. Check your local tenant laws.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:17 AM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 10:17 AM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
Don't do it. He needs to be in a rehab facility, and you cannot be a one-person rehab facility. He may end up stealing your stuff to sell for drugs, doing drugs in your house, bringing unsavory people over. Just don't.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 10:43 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 10:43 AM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
The thing is, he may be a good guy - he may be a great guy! But he's sick right now and not in control of himself, and the sickness may make him do all kinds of things that can really fuck things up for you. For me, it is really difficult to hear people talk so negatively about addicts and give out [realistic] advice about not trusting people, etc - it really helps me to remind myself that it is the addiction, not them. But I know from experience that when people are addicted to hard drugs, they will destroy their lives and do a number on the lives of the people around them.
I know someone who has been off heroin for four years. The things this person did during the worst of the addiction permanently destroyed some of their relationships and weakened all the others. This person isn't a bad person; quite the opposite, they're kind, generous, easy to confide in. The addiction was a brutal illness that I hope never returns.
What you are proposing sounds like a recipe for disaster - even if this guy had a detailed plan for quitting and was basically very realistic and reliable and you had back-up, it would be very, very hard.
Maybe you feel like he has nowhere else to go. I get that. Maybe all the options are shitty. But if you do go ahead with this, be real with yourself - you have to be willing to say to yourself, "I truly believe that whatever the financial, physical or emotional consequences to me, the most important thing is to to provide this guy with a place to stay, no matter what happens, and I am prepared to put aside my own needs and feelings". I don't think that's a good idea, but be real that this is what you need to feel to get through this stuff.
Store your valuables somewhere else - not just your wallet, anything the guy can pawn or sell.
Have a plan for kicking him out and friends to help you do it if needed. Be sure your locks, etc are in good shape.
Discuss in detail with him how all this is going to work and make sure - maybe by writing down, discussing and signing - the conditions under which he can stay with you.
Set and enforce an endpoint and bring it up often.
Honestly, if this were me, I might conceivably let the right person stay with me under these circumstances, because I sometimes do things like that. However, I would be working with the county like crazy to try to get him into some other residential place. And if his family isn't abusive - if they're just done - it might be worthwhile to contact them just so that they know what's up.
I just worry that you're going to be sitting in your house three months down the road with a seriously addicted, broke housemate who you can't bring yourself to evict, and it will take you down.
posted by Frowner at 11:29 AM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
I know someone who has been off heroin for four years. The things this person did during the worst of the addiction permanently destroyed some of their relationships and weakened all the others. This person isn't a bad person; quite the opposite, they're kind, generous, easy to confide in. The addiction was a brutal illness that I hope never returns.
What you are proposing sounds like a recipe for disaster - even if this guy had a detailed plan for quitting and was basically very realistic and reliable and you had back-up, it would be very, very hard.
Maybe you feel like he has nowhere else to go. I get that. Maybe all the options are shitty. But if you do go ahead with this, be real with yourself - you have to be willing to say to yourself, "I truly believe that whatever the financial, physical or emotional consequences to me, the most important thing is to to provide this guy with a place to stay, no matter what happens, and I am prepared to put aside my own needs and feelings". I don't think that's a good idea, but be real that this is what you need to feel to get through this stuff.
Store your valuables somewhere else - not just your wallet, anything the guy can pawn or sell.
Have a plan for kicking him out and friends to help you do it if needed. Be sure your locks, etc are in good shape.
Discuss in detail with him how all this is going to work and make sure - maybe by writing down, discussing and signing - the conditions under which he can stay with you.
Set and enforce an endpoint and bring it up often.
Honestly, if this were me, I might conceivably let the right person stay with me under these circumstances, because I sometimes do things like that. However, I would be working with the county like crazy to try to get him into some other residential place. And if his family isn't abusive - if they're just done - it might be worthwhile to contact them just so that they know what's up.
I just worry that you're going to be sitting in your house three months down the road with a seriously addicted, broke housemate who you can't bring yourself to evict, and it will take you down.
posted by Frowner at 11:29 AM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
You may not be able to legally kickk him out of your home if he stays there for 2 weeks or more.
He WILL have legal rights to reside in your home whether you want him there or not after a certain length of time. Check your jurisdiction to confirm how long it takes to confirm residency.
posted by jbenben at 12:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
He WILL have legal rights to reside in your home whether you want him there or not after a certain length of time. Check your jurisdiction to confirm how long it takes to confirm residency.
posted by jbenben at 12:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
It is really and truly lovely that you are willing, and able, to open your home to this friend. As others have noted, a lot of people who struggle with addictions can be isolated, are often detached from family/friends, and it is really difficult to get your life in order (in any sense of the word) when you're lacking support. I spend my days working with people who are using drugs and a lot of people who would really like to stop using drugs but, for a variety of reasons, run into roadblocks that prevent them from making any meaningful forward motion on that goal.
I adore 90% of my clients - they're sweet, intelligent, charming, funny, caring people. Many of them have been wildly successful in life - business owners, parents, medical professionals, artists, and all sorts of other careers - before getting derailed by their addiction. On occasion, I will entertain the idea that some of them simply need a peaceful, stable, structured place to get their shit together - and I think that's normal. I mean, most people who are actively using are living fairly chaotic lives and they will often SAY that they just need to 'get away from this' apartment/city/etc.
All of that said, I am still firmly in the "don't do this" camp.
Support your friend from afar - by which I mean, not from a shared living space.
1) He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control with my desire for information?
You can't make disclosure a requirement for living with you - because if he needs to be in control of things, he will resent your intrusion into his "personal life" at some point. Instead, you support him to maintain his independence and his autonomy by leaving him in charge of finding, maintaining, and sustaining his own housing. This may mean a shelter. It may mean a room rented in someone's home. It may be a rooming house. You empathize with him when he says it's a shitty place to live. You accompany him shopping for a throw pillow or you give him a housewarming gift of a framed photo of you together. You allow him to maintain his independence even though, at times, it will suck to be independent.
Assuming you proceed, anyway:
2) What sorts of conditions, if any, do I make on him for staying here?
Everything noted above by other mefites. And everything in writing. Every stipulation that's written down has a clear consequence attached to it and, this is the hard part, you MUST enforce it. There is no sympathy given. There are no sad stories that make you change the consequence. And you get this document signed by him, and by you, and hell, throw in a witness. It will feel cold and it will feel too controlling and it will feel like you're treating him like a child. You are protecting yourself. You don't want to lose your housing, let alone your (mental) health and well-being.
3) He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled). If he gets it filled, do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
You can't be in charge of his meds. You're not his mother. You're not his therapist or his doctor. If he has a legitimate need for the meds, he needs to talk to his doctor and pharmacist about alternate methods of dispensing. I have clients who go to the pharmacy every day to pick up their meds so they can avoid having too many in their hands at any time. I have other clients who have outreach workers who hold on to the meds and dispense the same way. You do not want to have a screaming argument on a Tuesday afternoon when he is insisting that you JUST GIVE HIM THE MEDS.
4) I know Subutex helps with the physical withdrawal, but what can I expect with the mental component?
Addictions take up a lot of time - both physical time and mental time. He needs to figure out what the hell he's going to do with that time. And then, almost assuredly, he's going to need to deal with all the crap that's underneath his drug use. Not everyone is chock full of mental illness and trauma, but he really needs to start talking to a professional (not you) about all of it. Keep in mind that (to paraphrase Gabor Mate) trauma is not just about terrible things happening - it's also about good things that did not happen that should have. Get him to add himself to any waiting lists possible.
5) How can I help him if he goes cold turkey?
You can't help him, really, because you're not a medical doctor. Some people go through withdrawal and it's vaguely uncomfortable. Some people are in agony and can get some help from their doctor to mediate the worst symptoms. And some people need medical assistance to not die from withdrawal. Support him to find a physician who can help.
6) I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy, but he is a "do-er" and likes talking psych subjects on occasion. This seems like something he may pick up & flip through on restless nights and may provide some support. I don't want him to think I'm making recovery a theme or that I'm going to be on his case about it (see independence & control), but I do want him to know I will be supportive & understanding. I'd also like him to have some additional tools in his toolbox. Is this too much or too intrusive?
Buy the books for yourself. Read them thoroughly. Leave them around the apartment for him to read if he chooses, of course, but don't have high hopes. He's been through withdrawal and been abstinent in the past - he knows what to expect, for the most part. If he expresses interest in how to use yoga to deal with stress (for example), and you can find a great book, go for it. But the thing about recovery is that every single person has different needs. There is no 'best book' for the process. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.
7) What am I not thinking about?
Please, please, please read and re-read all the "no, don't do it" advice you've gotten in this thread. You don't have to be cruel. You can be an amazingly supportive, cheerleading, helpful friend here. You can be a positive role model, a great listener, a stable person who's available for coffee every weekend. Please leave the 'treatment' to the professionals who have firm boundaries, protocols, agencies to back them up, and the years of eduction and training. For YOUR sake.
posted by VioletU at 4:09 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I adore 90% of my clients - they're sweet, intelligent, charming, funny, caring people. Many of them have been wildly successful in life - business owners, parents, medical professionals, artists, and all sorts of other careers - before getting derailed by their addiction. On occasion, I will entertain the idea that some of them simply need a peaceful, stable, structured place to get their shit together - and I think that's normal. I mean, most people who are actively using are living fairly chaotic lives and they will often SAY that they just need to 'get away from this' apartment/city/etc.
All of that said, I am still firmly in the "don't do this" camp.
Support your friend from afar - by which I mean, not from a shared living space.
1) He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control with my desire for information?
You can't make disclosure a requirement for living with you - because if he needs to be in control of things, he will resent your intrusion into his "personal life" at some point. Instead, you support him to maintain his independence and his autonomy by leaving him in charge of finding, maintaining, and sustaining his own housing. This may mean a shelter. It may mean a room rented in someone's home. It may be a rooming house. You empathize with him when he says it's a shitty place to live. You accompany him shopping for a throw pillow or you give him a housewarming gift of a framed photo of you together. You allow him to maintain his independence even though, at times, it will suck to be independent.
Assuming you proceed, anyway:
2) What sorts of conditions, if any, do I make on him for staying here?
Everything noted above by other mefites. And everything in writing. Every stipulation that's written down has a clear consequence attached to it and, this is the hard part, you MUST enforce it. There is no sympathy given. There are no sad stories that make you change the consequence. And you get this document signed by him, and by you, and hell, throw in a witness. It will feel cold and it will feel too controlling and it will feel like you're treating him like a child. You are protecting yourself. You don't want to lose your housing, let alone your (mental) health and well-being.
3) He has an unfilled prescription for Xanax. (The Subutex doc gave him one, but he had just had another script filled). If he gets it filled, do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
You can't be in charge of his meds. You're not his mother. You're not his therapist or his doctor. If he has a legitimate need for the meds, he needs to talk to his doctor and pharmacist about alternate methods of dispensing. I have clients who go to the pharmacy every day to pick up their meds so they can avoid having too many in their hands at any time. I have other clients who have outreach workers who hold on to the meds and dispense the same way. You do not want to have a screaming argument on a Tuesday afternoon when he is insisting that you JUST GIVE HIM THE MEDS.
4) I know Subutex helps with the physical withdrawal, but what can I expect with the mental component?
Addictions take up a lot of time - both physical time and mental time. He needs to figure out what the hell he's going to do with that time. And then, almost assuredly, he's going to need to deal with all the crap that's underneath his drug use. Not everyone is chock full of mental illness and trauma, but he really needs to start talking to a professional (not you) about all of it. Keep in mind that (to paraphrase Gabor Mate) trauma is not just about terrible things happening - it's also about good things that did not happen that should have. Get him to add himself to any waiting lists possible.
5) How can I help him if he goes cold turkey?
You can't help him, really, because you're not a medical doctor. Some people go through withdrawal and it's vaguely uncomfortable. Some people are in agony and can get some help from their doctor to mediate the worst symptoms. And some people need medical assistance to not die from withdrawal. Support him to find a physician who can help.
6) I am considering getting him a book on addiction/abuse/recovery (current contender). He's not a reader and he's not in therapy, but he is a "do-er" and likes talking psych subjects on occasion. This seems like something he may pick up & flip through on restless nights and may provide some support. I don't want him to think I'm making recovery a theme or that I'm going to be on his case about it (see independence & control), but I do want him to know I will be supportive & understanding. I'd also like him to have some additional tools in his toolbox. Is this too much or too intrusive?
Buy the books for yourself. Read them thoroughly. Leave them around the apartment for him to read if he chooses, of course, but don't have high hopes. He's been through withdrawal and been abstinent in the past - he knows what to expect, for the most part. If he expresses interest in how to use yoga to deal with stress (for example), and you can find a great book, go for it. But the thing about recovery is that every single person has different needs. There is no 'best book' for the process. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.
7) What am I not thinking about?
Please, please, please read and re-read all the "no, don't do it" advice you've gotten in this thread. You don't have to be cruel. You can be an amazingly supportive, cheerleading, helpful friend here. You can be a positive role model, a great listener, a stable person who's available for coffee every weekend. Please leave the 'treatment' to the professionals who have firm boundaries, protocols, agencies to back them up, and the years of eduction and training. For YOUR sake.
posted by VioletU at 4:09 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
What *exactly* is your motivation for letting someone you describe as a drug addict, who you have known for less than two years crash at your place for up to two months? Think of other people you have known for that amount of time. If they were drug addicts, would you let them crash at your place for two months? If not, what makes him so special? If a friend told you that they've known a guy with a drug problem for less than two years and he's going to crash with your friend for an unspecified period of time, what would you say?
I'm just spitballing here but part of me think you have a mental vision that you're going to help friend overcome addiction and years from now, when he has been clean for a while, he will give a big speech in front of your loved ones about how he owes it all to you, his one true friend who supported him in his time of need, while you blush and give an "aww, shucks" sort of wave. Again, I could be totally off-base but just to be clear, that may happen in movies but I don't think that happens in real life.
posted by kat518 at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015
I'm just spitballing here but part of me think you have a mental vision that you're going to help friend overcome addiction and years from now, when he has been clean for a while, he will give a big speech in front of your loved ones about how he owes it all to you, his one true friend who supported him in his time of need, while you blush and give an "aww, shucks" sort of wave. Again, I could be totally off-base but just to be clear, that may happen in movies but I don't think that happens in real life.
posted by kat518 at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015
It sounds like your friend has a serious and potentially life-threatening medical issue, and it sounds like you are asking about how to attend to it without the training or resources that are usually required to reduce predictable risks of harm. If you learn more about the potential medical and legal risks, you can make a more informed decision about what to do. Without the professional training, experience and detachment, it seems unlikely that you can accommodate your friend's preference to avoid formal treatment in a way that is healthy or safe for either of you.
For questions about how the law applies to your specific situation, a lawyer can provide you with legal advice. The NAMI Helpline offers a Legal Resource Service for referrals to attorneys with relevant experience. In addition to landlord/tenant issues, there may be potential risks of civil or criminal liability, especially if anything bad happens to your friend while you are dispensing medication based on your unlicensed medical judgment and without the medical testing to help verify whether your friend has taken anything else. For example, in New Jersey:
posted by Little Dawn at 4:28 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
For questions about how the law applies to your specific situation, a lawyer can provide you with legal advice. The NAMI Helpline offers a Legal Resource Service for referrals to attorneys with relevant experience. In addition to landlord/tenant issues, there may be potential risks of civil or criminal liability, especially if anything bad happens to your friend while you are dispensing medication based on your unlicensed medical judgment and without the medical testing to help verify whether your friend has taken anything else. For example, in New Jersey:
“Unbeknownst to you, your son and his girlfriend, it’s his tenth of the day, in addition to many other pills that other friends have given him. The friend dies from all of this — not just the pill that your son’s girlfriend gave him, but based on everything that he took that day.” As Molinelli emphasized, your son or daughter “may be charged under New Jersey’s drug-induced death law.”Information about finding an attorney is available at the MeFi Wiki Get a lawyer page, including links to state-specific legal resources.
posted by Little Dawn at 4:28 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
What am I not thinking about?
The worst case scenario. Your friend ODing in your living room. Your friend's friend ODing in your living room. Having to kick your friend out because you just can't trust him anymore. Realizing that you've just been enabling your friend's addiction and months after moving in, he's still an addict. Getting burnt by this guy, then not being able to trust anyone for a long time. Finding out that your friend stole from you. Your friend repeatedly calling your office for help, threatening your job security.
It sounds like your friend is not just getting drugs from the pharmacy - what happens when he owes someone money and they come to your place to find him? It also sounds like you're single - what if you meet the person of your dreams, then have to explain that you invited a drug addict to live with you?
These hypotheticals might sound crazy but I don't think you have considered any worst case scenarios and these don't even really touch on typical roommate dramas, like you two just not getting along or him being a slob. Honestly, I feel like there are a lot of things you haven't thought of.
posted by kat518 at 4:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
The worst case scenario. Your friend ODing in your living room. Your friend's friend ODing in your living room. Having to kick your friend out because you just can't trust him anymore. Realizing that you've just been enabling your friend's addiction and months after moving in, he's still an addict. Getting burnt by this guy, then not being able to trust anyone for a long time. Finding out that your friend stole from you. Your friend repeatedly calling your office for help, threatening your job security.
It sounds like your friend is not just getting drugs from the pharmacy - what happens when he owes someone money and they come to your place to find him? It also sounds like you're single - what if you meet the person of your dreams, then have to explain that you invited a drug addict to live with you?
These hypotheticals might sound crazy but I don't think you have considered any worst case scenarios and these don't even really touch on typical roommate dramas, like you two just not getting along or him being a slob. Honestly, I feel like there are a lot of things you haven't thought of.
posted by kat518 at 4:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ok wow, so i might be a bit more harsh/blunt than a lot of other commenters... but i think you have a really paternalistic presumptuous and even condescending messed up attitude here.
He's quite intelligent and presents a front of high self-esteem, but it's actually quite low. He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that. He also needs to feel in control and, it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use...
it seems the anxiety of having to quit again, once he discovered just a bit of dependence/withdrawal, made him use even more.
he asked for help in his way. (Not directly, but it was clear by coming to me and opening up.)
His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
You are really REALLY enmeshed in this and making a lot of assumptions and presumptions. Also
do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
Other people seem to have responded to doing in this in the future as a bad idea, but you've already done it. You are part of this, and you were giving an addict drugs and part of his addiction.
You say this relationship is platonic, and you don't need to respond nor is this a question, but you're talking about this person like it's someone you've fucked or been involved with or like you're his goddamn parent. I've had someone treat me this way, and when i snapped out of it feeling close and nice i realized it was really condescending. You're either treating him like a lover, or a child.
Maybe i'm too hard on the fuck it side, and i think you're too soft on the enabling side... but i don't believe in the "what you do when you're addicted/on drugs isn't the real you" sort of mentality. If he got drunk and took your car and crashed it would it "not have been him?" i bet most of the people here wouldn't agree with that, but somehow when it's hard drugs it's different and you weren't yourself. That's addict speak, that somehow gets accepted into the canon.
You are being played. You've already enabled him, and especially with the whole bit with the "he asked for help in his way" where it's supposed to be your idea but you know he wants it is bald faced manipulation so you can feel like you're the Good Person whose Helping Out.
Nothing will change with this. I might be a harsh asshole, but neither of us are professionals who can deal with this.
I would literally bet everything i own, and know i'd be fine without a shadow of a doubt, that this is going to end in tears and with your friendship ruined unless you're a glutton for punishment. I'm not necessarily in camp "he's going to steal all your stuff!", i just think this will be a tired quagmire of low level dry-drunk type usage and him somehow having money to keep using but not to move on or contribute.
I also 100% agree with the other people in here that he will be impossible to get out of your house. Especially with how, essentially, soft you sound about this he will guilt you and beg and plead in "his own way" and constantly come up with moving goalposts or some new "i'll be gone as soon as X!".
Even with a solid end date and his out of country family saying "yea, he's coming/can come on X date and we're ready for him" what's to say he'll go there?
I've had someone who wasn't even a drug addict, just a deadbeat play this game with me. He had family he could stay with, but made up a story about it because his brother wouldn't put up with him smoking weed all day when i wasn't around and playing video games instead of working(or working enough, see underemployed). He may very well not have burned those bridges, you just look like the easiest house where he doesn't have to apply himself and can work part time/be underemployed and just sit around and get some level of high where it's easy to just sit on you when you complain and placate you with what you want to hear.
So yea, i don't see some disaster of theft and your most prized possessions disappearing. I just think he wants someone easy to play, and that you seem like an easy mark. I also think your disrespectful attitude towards him is the last thing he needs in addition to that.
He needs professional help, or family that will seriously put their foot down and kick him out if he doesn't get his shit together. It sounds like either that's happened, or like my former friend, he left because they wouldn't let him loser it up like he is.
And make no mistake about it, he's not an asshole "on drugs", he's just an asshole. This is classic asshole behavior, and a lot of former addicts frame it unproductive "i was a different person bla bla that wasn't me" sort of terms when it's just being an asshole. It's his choice to act this way, it isn't some outside magic force doing it to him and pulling his strings.
Make no mistake, this person is not your friend if they're asking-but-not-asking for this situation. They're pulling down their pants to fuck you. They will not be easy to be rid of, and you will not be helping them. This is like the platonic ideal of an enabling situation. For fucks sake, you've already given them drugs to help them. Do you really think you couldn't be manipulated on how much they "need"? That was entirely a stage production to make you think you were helping them and get you on their side accepting a baseline level of usage.
I honestly think you should cut contact with this person. Let yourself be the "asshole" they tell the next mark about, and contact the other people who "cut them off" and ask why, while explaining your current situation. Listen to what they have to say, and give them the benefit of the doubt on not being "unreasonable assholes" that he's probably very realistically painted them as.
I have experience with addicts, people with BPD, and general fuckabouts. You are not a person to help here. Accept that.
posted by emptythought at 5:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
He's quite intelligent and presents a front of high self-esteem, but it's actually quite low. He likes structure & routine, but will absolutely deny that. He also needs to feel in control and, it seems to me, a loss of control leads to his anxiety and drug use...
it seems the anxiety of having to quit again, once he discovered just a bit of dependence/withdrawal, made him use even more.
he asked for help in his way. (Not directly, but it was clear by coming to me and opening up.)
His other friends aren't an option for me. Not the ones that would have a room or couch for him, anyway. Not for someone in recovery.
You are really REALLY enmeshed in this and making a lot of assumptions and presumptions. Also
do I have him give them to me to dole out as prescribed/needed? We have had this arrangement before (on his request), so it would not seem odd. Should I do the same with the Subutex? Do I make this an offer or condition?
Other people seem to have responded to doing in this in the future as a bad idea, but you've already done it. You are part of this, and you were giving an addict drugs and part of his addiction.
You say this relationship is platonic, and you don't need to respond nor is this a question, but you're talking about this person like it's someone you've fucked or been involved with or like you're his goddamn parent. I've had someone treat me this way, and when i snapped out of it feeling close and nice i realized it was really condescending. You're either treating him like a lover, or a child.
Maybe i'm too hard on the fuck it side, and i think you're too soft on the enabling side... but i don't believe in the "what you do when you're addicted/on drugs isn't the real you" sort of mentality. If he got drunk and took your car and crashed it would it "not have been him?" i bet most of the people here wouldn't agree with that, but somehow when it's hard drugs it's different and you weren't yourself. That's addict speak, that somehow gets accepted into the canon.
You are being played. You've already enabled him, and especially with the whole bit with the "he asked for help in his way" where it's supposed to be your idea but you know he wants it is bald faced manipulation so you can feel like you're the Good Person whose Helping Out.
Nothing will change with this. I might be a harsh asshole, but neither of us are professionals who can deal with this.
I would literally bet everything i own, and know i'd be fine without a shadow of a doubt, that this is going to end in tears and with your friendship ruined unless you're a glutton for punishment. I'm not necessarily in camp "he's going to steal all your stuff!", i just think this will be a tired quagmire of low level dry-drunk type usage and him somehow having money to keep using but not to move on or contribute.
I also 100% agree with the other people in here that he will be impossible to get out of your house. Especially with how, essentially, soft you sound about this he will guilt you and beg and plead in "his own way" and constantly come up with moving goalposts or some new "i'll be gone as soon as X!".
Even with a solid end date and his out of country family saying "yea, he's coming/can come on X date and we're ready for him" what's to say he'll go there?
I've had someone who wasn't even a drug addict, just a deadbeat play this game with me. He had family he could stay with, but made up a story about it because his brother wouldn't put up with him smoking weed all day when i wasn't around and playing video games instead of working(or working enough, see underemployed). He may very well not have burned those bridges, you just look like the easiest house where he doesn't have to apply himself and can work part time/be underemployed and just sit around and get some level of high where it's easy to just sit on you when you complain and placate you with what you want to hear.
So yea, i don't see some disaster of theft and your most prized possessions disappearing. I just think he wants someone easy to play, and that you seem like an easy mark. I also think your disrespectful attitude towards him is the last thing he needs in addition to that.
He needs professional help, or family that will seriously put their foot down and kick him out if he doesn't get his shit together. It sounds like either that's happened, or like my former friend, he left because they wouldn't let him loser it up like he is.
And make no mistake about it, he's not an asshole "on drugs", he's just an asshole. This is classic asshole behavior, and a lot of former addicts frame it unproductive "i was a different person bla bla that wasn't me" sort of terms when it's just being an asshole. It's his choice to act this way, it isn't some outside magic force doing it to him and pulling his strings.
Make no mistake, this person is not your friend if they're asking-but-not-asking for this situation. They're pulling down their pants to fuck you. They will not be easy to be rid of, and you will not be helping them. This is like the platonic ideal of an enabling situation. For fucks sake, you've already given them drugs to help them. Do you really think you couldn't be manipulated on how much they "need"? That was entirely a stage production to make you think you were helping them and get you on their side accepting a baseline level of usage.
I honestly think you should cut contact with this person. Let yourself be the "asshole" they tell the next mark about, and contact the other people who "cut them off" and ask why, while explaining your current situation. Listen to what they have to say, and give them the benefit of the doubt on not being "unreasonable assholes" that he's probably very realistically painted them as.
I have experience with addicts, people with BPD, and general fuckabouts. You are not a person to help here. Accept that.
posted by emptythought at 5:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
For me, it is really difficult to hear people talk so negatively about addicts and give out [realistic] advice about not trusting people, etc...
I hear frowner on this (AskMe seems to me to skew surprisingly judgmental and angry regarding addicted people) but yeah. This is an incredibly bad idea.
It's a bad idea, in large part, because your idea of the realities of the situation seem extremely naive. I don't know what you base your pseudo-psychological assessment of your friend upon, but I assure you that you do not "know" this person. This person doesn't "know" this person.
He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control... Good intentions aside, you can't honor your friend's autonomy or dignity, and you absolutely shouldn't base the outlines of your assistance to them on that premise. Why? Because their autonomy and dignity belong to their addiction. Your friend may be a wonderful person on any number of levels, but the only obligation they will ultimately honor will be to their need. This will only change when they get to a certain point of desperation and misery. Based on the way they are still attempting to make their own rules and control circumstances, they aren't even close to that point. "Independence," in this context, means only two things: 1) the independence to continue being dependent on a substance, without accountability, or 2) freedom from dealing with the pain/character flaws that drive the symptom of substance abuse.
Look, I was about the nicest, kindest, cross-addicted person around: I was punctual, "honest" in my self-assessments of my problem, and tried not to hurt or manipulate others. Guess what: I still failed to meet obligations, lied to myself constantly, and exhausted the goodwill of friends and partners aplenty. And it wasn't until I recognized the delusion of my "independence" that I was able to really start changing.
i don't believe in the "what you do when you're addicted/on drugs isn't the real you" sort of mentality.
emptythought is on to something here. Around the time I was discovering that alcohol was the answer to all my problems (spoiler: it wasn't!), I had a conversation with a fellow burgeoning addict who made a similar observation. Intoxicants may allow someone to do things that their normal inhibitions and mores would disallow, but those actions are representative of a deeper, uglier part of that person's being. This doesn't negate the essential value of that person -- everyone has a deeper, uglier aspect -- but the common excuse that it "isn't them" has got to go. If you do continue to try to help your friend, please don't take any variants on this line of thinking derail you from maintaining predetermined rules or boundaries. And I don't just mean in terms of cohabitating -- because, dude, don't do that! -- but in terms of helping from a safe distance.
posted by credible hulk at 7:26 AM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I hear frowner on this (AskMe seems to me to skew surprisingly judgmental and angry regarding addicted people) but yeah. This is an incredibly bad idea.
It's a bad idea, in large part, because your idea of the realities of the situation seem extremely naive. I don't know what you base your pseudo-psychological assessment of your friend upon, but I assure you that you do not "know" this person. This person doesn't "know" this person.
He very much likes his independence. How do I balance his need for freedom and control... Good intentions aside, you can't honor your friend's autonomy or dignity, and you absolutely shouldn't base the outlines of your assistance to them on that premise. Why? Because their autonomy and dignity belong to their addiction. Your friend may be a wonderful person on any number of levels, but the only obligation they will ultimately honor will be to their need. This will only change when they get to a certain point of desperation and misery. Based on the way they are still attempting to make their own rules and control circumstances, they aren't even close to that point. "Independence," in this context, means only two things: 1) the independence to continue being dependent on a substance, without accountability, or 2) freedom from dealing with the pain/character flaws that drive the symptom of substance abuse.
Look, I was about the nicest, kindest, cross-addicted person around: I was punctual, "honest" in my self-assessments of my problem, and tried not to hurt or manipulate others. Guess what: I still failed to meet obligations, lied to myself constantly, and exhausted the goodwill of friends and partners aplenty. And it wasn't until I recognized the delusion of my "independence" that I was able to really start changing.
i don't believe in the "what you do when you're addicted/on drugs isn't the real you" sort of mentality.
emptythought is on to something here. Around the time I was discovering that alcohol was the answer to all my problems (spoiler: it wasn't!), I had a conversation with a fellow burgeoning addict who made a similar observation. Intoxicants may allow someone to do things that their normal inhibitions and mores would disallow, but those actions are representative of a deeper, uglier part of that person's being. This doesn't negate the essential value of that person -- everyone has a deeper, uglier aspect -- but the common excuse that it "isn't them" has got to go. If you do continue to try to help your friend, please don't take any variants on this line of thinking derail you from maintaining predetermined rules or boundaries. And I don't just mean in terms of cohabitating -- because, dude, don't do that! -- but in terms of helping from a safe distance.
posted by credible hulk at 7:26 AM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, such a bad idea. Please don't do this. You are making yourself completely responsible for the recovery that you are assuming he wants to make -- because, correct me if I'm wrong, he didn't actually tell you that he wants to get off the drugs, did he? You think he implied it, but that could very well be wishful thinking. And honestly, unless he is willing to actually SAY that he wants to get clean, he doesn't really want to.
Addicts lie. And they manipulate. And they know exactly what to say to get people like you, people who care about them and want to help, to enable them.
posted by sarcasticah at 5:09 PM on May 26, 2015
Addicts lie. And they manipulate. And they know exactly what to say to get people like you, people who care about them and want to help, to enable them.
posted by sarcasticah at 5:09 PM on May 26, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:39 AM on May 25, 2015 [17 favorites]