Stepdaughter (13) started shaving all pubes. Should I talk to her?
May 12, 2015 10:01 AM Subscribe
Her father told me about the pubes when he discovered her shaving in the shower a few weeks ago. He asked her to stop doing it, but I’ve since seen her undressed and she continues to shave it all off. Around the same time as this started she announced that she now has a boyfriend, also 13.
We don’t believe she is having sex yet as there really isn’t much opportunity for her and the boy to be alone. She shaves all her body hair, including the hair on her fingers. She has a pale Irish complexion with dark brown hair, though her body hair is not particularly prominent, as far as I can tell. She started shaving her legs a while back, at age 10 or 11.
We’re kind of open about nudity in the family, so she would have seen that I shave all my pubes as well, although I stopped about six months ago.
She lives with my partner, me, and my two children (son, 8, and daughter, 9). My relationship with her has never been great in the past three years we’ve lived together, but it feels like she has really ‘checked out’ of our home and family since becoming a teenager. Her biological mother has been out of the picture for years for reasons of mental health.
Is being creeped out by this a good enough reason for me to talk to her? If not, is there a legitimate reason I should bring up that I'm not thinking of?
We don’t believe she is having sex yet as there really isn’t much opportunity for her and the boy to be alone. She shaves all her body hair, including the hair on her fingers. She has a pale Irish complexion with dark brown hair, though her body hair is not particularly prominent, as far as I can tell. She started shaving her legs a while back, at age 10 or 11.
We’re kind of open about nudity in the family, so she would have seen that I shave all my pubes as well, although I stopped about six months ago.
She lives with my partner, me, and my two children (son, 8, and daughter, 9). My relationship with her has never been great in the past three years we’ve lived together, but it feels like she has really ‘checked out’ of our home and family since becoming a teenager. Her biological mother has been out of the picture for years for reasons of mental health.
Is being creeped out by this a good enough reason for me to talk to her? If not, is there a legitimate reason I should bring up that I'm not thinking of?
I can't think of a legitimate reason to bring this up. She shaves all of her body hair (and has, it seems, for years?). She knows for a fact that adults -- like you -- shave their pubes. You're going to need to have some pretty good excuse for why that hair is different - specifically - from all of her other hair that you had no problem with her shaving, and why it would be acceptable for there to be different rules about this shaving for her than there are for you, in order to talk about it.
You guys should work, in general, on opening lines of communication with her. Especially her father. I know that's really hard with a teenager, but that's where your goals should be, not on arbitrary body shaming based on a really specific shaving issue.
posted by brainmouse at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [29 favorites]
You guys should work, in general, on opening lines of communication with her. Especially her father. I know that's really hard with a teenager, but that's where your goals should be, not on arbitrary body shaming based on a really specific shaving issue.
posted by brainmouse at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [29 favorites]
Could it be a compulsion? It's that she shaves all her hair off that I ask. Maybe run it by her doctor for a screening?
OTOH, when I was about 13 I shaved all my arm hair off and trimmed my bangs down to my scalp while leaving the rest of my hair untouched. I have no idea why.
posted by mibo at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
OTOH, when I was about 13 I shaved all my arm hair off and trimmed my bangs down to my scalp while leaving the rest of my hair untouched. I have no idea why.
posted by mibo at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Is being creeped out by this a good enough reason for me to talk to her?
No.
If not, is there a legitimate reason I should bring up that I'm not thinking of?
The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) recommends that young women have their first visit with an obstetrician-gynecologist (OB/GYN) between the ages of 13 and 15. If there's a health issue about this (there isn't), they'll bring it up - I did have a gyno tell me to knock off dying my patch pink when I was in high school.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:07 AM on May 12, 2015 [26 favorites]
No.
If not, is there a legitimate reason I should bring up that I'm not thinking of?
The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) recommends that young women have their first visit with an obstetrician-gynecologist (OB/GYN) between the ages of 13 and 15. If there's a health issue about this (there isn't), they'll bring it up - I did have a gyno tell me to knock off dying my patch pink when I was in high school.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:07 AM on May 12, 2015 [26 favorites]
Is being creeped out by this a good enough reason for me to talk to her?
Nuup. Her body, her business. I would think that given the situation you describe, you should be trying to make common ground with her rather than trying to make decisions about her private grooming habits. You may also want to consider that she may not want to be as open about nudity as you do. I know I would have been mortified/defiant about such a subject at that age! Wouldn't have wanted a parent or anyone else 'discovering me shaving in the shower' and doing anything other than completely dropping the subject and effectively erasing the memory, either.
posted by Drexen at 10:09 AM on May 12, 2015 [34 favorites]
Nuup. Her body, her business. I would think that given the situation you describe, you should be trying to make common ground with her rather than trying to make decisions about her private grooming habits. You may also want to consider that she may not want to be as open about nudity as you do. I know I would have been mortified/defiant about such a subject at that age! Wouldn't have wanted a parent or anyone else 'discovering me shaving in the shower' and doing anything other than completely dropping the subject and effectively erasing the memory, either.
posted by Drexen at 10:09 AM on May 12, 2015 [34 favorites]
Start having open, honest discussions about responsible sex and body health and body image with her, like you'd do with any 13 year old. Leave her pubic hair out of it.
Also, she's 13 now. Give her some fucking bathroom privacy for chrissakes. No one in my family ever respected a locked bathroom door, and it was horribly upsetting for me my entire childhood.
posted by phunniemee at 10:11 AM on May 12, 2015 [113 favorites]
Also, she's 13 now. Give her some fucking bathroom privacy for chrissakes. No one in my family ever respected a locked bathroom door, and it was horribly upsetting for me my entire childhood.
posted by phunniemee at 10:11 AM on May 12, 2015 [113 favorites]
She may be having age appropriate insecurities about her body. Changing from a child with no pubic hair may be uncomfortable with her. It also sticks out to me when you type things like "my relationship with her has never been great in the 3 years we've lived together" and "we're kind of open about nudity in our family". This just has a lot of red flags to me. Why was her father watching her in the shower? Why are you naked around her if your relationship isn't good? Why do you feel like it's your place as a strange man that she's uncomfortable around to talk to her about pubic hair? Maybe I'm just hyper aware of sexual abuse signs as a mandated reporter, but pubes don't present themselves as the main worry, here.
posted by Kestrelxo at 10:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [53 favorites]
posted by Kestrelxo at 10:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [53 favorites]
It's her hair. She has the right to do what she likes with it.
At most I'd wait until you actually catch her in the act of shaving some other part of her anatomy (her fingers?) and then make some kind of non-judgemental, "....huh, you're shaving that? Just curious, any reason why?" And then carefully listening to her answer. She may be just super overboard with some kind of athletic aerodynamic thing, or she may feel like her hair shows up too much against her skin for her own aesthetic comfort (a friend of mine is similarly Irish-pale and similarly hirsute, and has this same complaint; she doesn't shave her fingers, though, but she does cover up more than the usual).
If you get a whiff that she's being bullied about this, or that it's a sense of shame, then maybe that would be the time to step in with "it's normal to have hair everywhere, it's nothing to be ashamed of"; but if it's anything else, like "i just don't like how it looks" or anything else, I'd just leave her to it. Because, shaving all body hair off to that extent gets to be kind of a pain in the ass after a while and I'm sure she'll reach a point at some point in her life where she decides "oh, hell with this" and stops. (I reached that point about shaving my own pubes when I was about 27.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
At most I'd wait until you actually catch her in the act of shaving some other part of her anatomy (her fingers?) and then make some kind of non-judgemental, "....huh, you're shaving that? Just curious, any reason why?" And then carefully listening to her answer. She may be just super overboard with some kind of athletic aerodynamic thing, or she may feel like her hair shows up too much against her skin for her own aesthetic comfort (a friend of mine is similarly Irish-pale and similarly hirsute, and has this same complaint; she doesn't shave her fingers, though, but she does cover up more than the usual).
If you get a whiff that she's being bullied about this, or that it's a sense of shame, then maybe that would be the time to step in with "it's normal to have hair everywhere, it's nothing to be ashamed of"; but if it's anything else, like "i just don't like how it looks" or anything else, I'd just leave her to it. Because, shaving all body hair off to that extent gets to be kind of a pain in the ass after a while and I'm sure she'll reach a point at some point in her life where she decides "oh, hell with this" and stops. (I reached that point about shaving my own pubes when I was about 27.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the only way to address this is either (a) in the context of the overall whole-body-shaving (if you think it's an obsession/compulsion issue) or (b) in the context of doing it safely (use a clean razor, exfoliate, apply soothing cream if necessary, etc).
This likely has nothing to do with sex, especially if she expects to ever be in a swimsuit around her peers.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
This likely has nothing to do with sex, especially if she expects to ever be in a swimsuit around her peers.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is being creeped out by this a good enough reason for me to talk to her?
Yes, absolutely. Being "creeped out" is just another way of saying that your instincts as a parent or guardian are saying that what she is doing is potentially harmful.
I think someone should probably bring it up with her in a tactful way. You might mention that you noticed she was shaving all parts of her body (boys and girls tend to experience body dysmorphia at puberty; I sure did) and ask why.
You might also mention why you yourself stopped shaving your pubic hair (I have no idea why, but for example you could say pubic hair is there for a purpose).
If you frame it as your experience without out directly addressing what she is doing it might not be traumatic or awkward for her.
It's tough, but I think parents really cannot leave these conversations up to teachers and physicians alone. Having a good connection is going to help ensure your daughter makes the "right" decisions in regards to exploring sexuality.
Your intentions and instincts are good I think. But it's just trying to find a tactful way to initiate dialogue with your stepdaughter.
posted by Nevin at 10:15 AM on May 12, 2015
Yes, absolutely. Being "creeped out" is just another way of saying that your instincts as a parent or guardian are saying that what she is doing is potentially harmful.
I think someone should probably bring it up with her in a tactful way. You might mention that you noticed she was shaving all parts of her body (boys and girls tend to experience body dysmorphia at puberty; I sure did) and ask why.
You might also mention why you yourself stopped shaving your pubic hair (I have no idea why, but for example you could say pubic hair is there for a purpose).
If you frame it as your experience without out directly addressing what she is doing it might not be traumatic or awkward for her.
It's tough, but I think parents really cannot leave these conversations up to teachers and physicians alone. Having a good connection is going to help ensure your daughter makes the "right" decisions in regards to exploring sexuality.
Your intentions and instincts are good I think. But it's just trying to find a tactful way to initiate dialogue with your stepdaughter.
posted by Nevin at 10:15 AM on May 12, 2015
Why is your husband visiting his 13-year-old daughter in the shower? Why are you all walking around naked? Why are the standards different for her than they are for you?
If I were a 13-year-old who lived in a house with few allies (I noticed you referred to "my two children," i.e., she doesn't count), who didn't have a mom because of mental health issues, who had to see my step-parent naked all the time and who wasn't allowed to have agency over my body, I'd be miserable. Give the kid a break.
posted by harperpitt at 10:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [134 favorites]
If I were a 13-year-old who lived in a house with few allies (I noticed you referred to "my two children," i.e., she doesn't count), who didn't have a mom because of mental health issues, who had to see my step-parent naked all the time and who wasn't allowed to have agency over my body, I'd be miserable. Give the kid a break.
posted by harperpitt at 10:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [134 favorites]
You want her to feel like she can come to you with a problem, right? Discovering this very small thing that you see as a problem and telling her to stop without any discussion is not going to make her feel like she can come to you with any other problems, especially if they relate to her own body. Have a talk with her where she does most of the talking and you don't make any rules.
It is not your business what she does with her pubic hair since she is not hurting herself. A 13 year old needs to be able to shower without being seen by a parent or parent's partner. If her father or you had seen pubes that she left behind, you could ask her to clean up after herself since it does affect the rest of the family.
posted by soelo at 10:17 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
It is not your business what she does with her pubic hair since she is not hurting herself. A 13 year old needs to be able to shower without being seen by a parent or parent's partner. If her father or you had seen pubes that she left behind, you could ask her to clean up after herself since it does affect the rest of the family.
posted by soelo at 10:17 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh my God, do not mention this to her in any way. Teenagers experiment with their appearance, body hair removal is low-stakes and reversible, this is like the definition of none of your business.
What does she get to have private if not this?
posted by ostro at 10:19 AM on May 12, 2015 [49 favorites]
What does she get to have private if not this?
posted by ostro at 10:19 AM on May 12, 2015 [49 favorites]
There are several possible reasons you're worried about this.
1) You're worried she's getting pressure about this choice not from herself but from the boy instead. Or possibly from her peers or their collective porn-viewing choices.
2) You are worried she'll get hurt (If she's a massive klutz or doesn't have adequate hygiene about the process).
3) You're worried she'll have sex and this is a sign.
4) It creeps you/her dad out.
These have different responses.
For (1), I'd suggest you (with her dad's approval, but she might be more comfortable with you because you share a gender..) talk with her about issues surrounding body image and the problems that a boring porn habit can bring with respect to gender policing of women, and how standards of bodily grooming have changed over time/vary by culture/etc. Not everyone shaves, for sure. There are good teen-appropriate websites for this so you can empower her to make her own decisions.
For (2), you instead want to provide her resources so that she's safe. Might as well include some basic sex ed here if you're going down that road anyhow. You've shaved yourself, so you can talk about what works to prevent nicks/ingrown hairs/etc. And you might want to mention some stupid grooming mishaps you've had in the past, and how you solved them (bonus points if you asked an adult for help and if you can make her feel safe coming to you for help with sex-related things; if it can't be you, maybe there's an aunt or something?)
For (3), well, that's a different issue. Whether or not she has sex is not connected to whether or not she shaves particular body parts. And unless you have an open pathway built now, she wont' come to you for e.g. birth control when/ if she does become sexually active. She'll keep going to who knows where for her sex info, and you'd rather she get it from you or other trusted sources (which can include things on the internet-- scarleteen used to be a great resource here but I haven't been there in eons).
For (4), no, this is not an ok reason. Parents get weirded out when teens start to develop sexual behaviour. Just telling her to hide that behavior is not going to help, and it could build a sense of shame around sex that isn't going to be a good thing if she really needs support later on.
You *can* however talk about the idea of being discreet (unless her dad walked in on her in the shower, which she may not want to happen, how does he know? did she leave pubes in the shower? ick, also maybe nto so great on the plumbing).
posted by nat at 10:20 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
1) You're worried she's getting pressure about this choice not from herself but from the boy instead. Or possibly from her peers or their collective porn-viewing choices.
2) You are worried she'll get hurt (If she's a massive klutz or doesn't have adequate hygiene about the process).
3) You're worried she'll have sex and this is a sign.
4) It creeps you/her dad out.
These have different responses.
For (1), I'd suggest you (with her dad's approval, but she might be more comfortable with you because you share a gender..) talk with her about issues surrounding body image and the problems that a boring porn habit can bring with respect to gender policing of women, and how standards of bodily grooming have changed over time/vary by culture/etc. Not everyone shaves, for sure. There are good teen-appropriate websites for this so you can empower her to make her own decisions.
For (2), you instead want to provide her resources so that she's safe. Might as well include some basic sex ed here if you're going down that road anyhow. You've shaved yourself, so you can talk about what works to prevent nicks/ingrown hairs/etc. And you might want to mention some stupid grooming mishaps you've had in the past, and how you solved them (bonus points if you asked an adult for help and if you can make her feel safe coming to you for help with sex-related things; if it can't be you, maybe there's an aunt or something?)
For (3), well, that's a different issue. Whether or not she has sex is not connected to whether or not she shaves particular body parts. And unless you have an open pathway built now, she wont' come to you for e.g. birth control when/ if she does become sexually active. She'll keep going to who knows where for her sex info, and you'd rather she get it from you or other trusted sources (which can include things on the internet-- scarleteen used to be a great resource here but I haven't been there in eons).
For (4), no, this is not an ok reason. Parents get weirded out when teens start to develop sexual behaviour. Just telling her to hide that behavior is not going to help, and it could build a sense of shame around sex that isn't going to be a good thing if she really needs support later on.
You *can* however talk about the idea of being discreet (unless her dad walked in on her in the shower, which she may not want to happen, how does he know? did she leave pubes in the shower? ick, also maybe nto so great on the plumbing).
posted by nat at 10:20 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm more creeped out by how much attention you and your husband are paying to whether or not she shaves her pubes.
Teenagers are going to do lots of stuff that you don't want them to do. I think the best way to handle it is harm reduction: make sure that she knows not to share razors with other people, make sure that she knows to get new razor blades now and again, keep product that prevents ingrown hairs in the cupboard and tell her to use it the day after she shaves.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:21 AM on May 12, 2015 [32 favorites]
Teenagers are going to do lots of stuff that you don't want them to do. I think the best way to handle it is harm reduction: make sure that she knows not to share razors with other people, make sure that she knows to get new razor blades now and again, keep product that prevents ingrown hairs in the cupboard and tell her to use it the day after she shaves.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:21 AM on May 12, 2015 [32 favorites]
I wouldn't talk to her about pubic hair, but I might mention to her, the next time you are in a position to casually notice her shaved arms, fingers, whatevers, that shaving makes hair sharper and gives the appearance of being darker, and if she's going to do it, she'd be better off waxing. If she's shaving because she thinks her hair is too dark, she's compounding the problem. Also, any part of her body that is shaved will be relatively unpleasant to the touch, so maybe I'm arguing that you let her keep doing it because it will have the effect of causing her boyfriend to not want to touch her?
I have had two significant others whom I have had to request to stop shaving: One, arms (UGH), the other, pubes (UGH). Both areas being shaved hurt or irritated me and honestly I think both were the result of some obsessive thinking.
posted by janey47 at 10:26 AM on May 12, 2015
I have had two significant others whom I have had to request to stop shaving: One, arms (UGH), the other, pubes (UGH). Both areas being shaved hurt or irritated me and honestly I think both were the result of some obsessive thinking.
posted by janey47 at 10:26 AM on May 12, 2015
Mind your own business. She is becoming a woman and deserves a modicum of privacy regarding things as harmless as body hair maintenance. For me, shaving was a form of personal sexual experimentation at that age. I picked it up from porn, which is arguably problematic, but ultimately it was harmless fun, had nothing to do with boys, was a secret I had to myself, and did not last, for I am a proudly hairy old lady many years later. I would have been mortified if my parents had discovered and brought it up. Hell, I was mortified that my mother accused me of plucking my eyebrows at age 13. If you want to be helpful, give her the gift from one woman to another of a cute beauty kit that contains among other, non-pube related things a brand new Venus, some fun foam for sensitive skin, and some ingrown hair products (really, a loofah for scrubbing out the tips of new hair paired with a swipe of deodorant over the skin does the trick). The worst thing here would be for her to continue the behavior in an unhygienic manner.
Also, shaving does not make your hair appear darker. Girls that shave have known from time immemorial that such a line is a myth told by moms to keep them from shaving.
posted by theraflu at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Also, shaving does not make your hair appear darker. Girls that shave have known from time immemorial that such a line is a myth told by moms to keep them from shaving.
posted by theraflu at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
She has a pale Irish complexion with dark brown hair, though her body hair is not particularly prominent, as far as I can tell.
FWIW, what doesn't seem prominent to us as adults often feels like a blazing neon sign to teens. :)
posted by joycehealy at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
FWIW, what doesn't seem prominent to us as adults often feels like a blazing neon sign to teens. :)
posted by joycehealy at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
I shaved my arms as a teenager because I was struggling with some serious body confidence issues. I shaved everything else too in fact, though no one would have known that in my situation.
What would have helped me was a positive, non-judgemental female role model teaching me that I was loved, and how to love myself. I think that would have addressed or prevented a whole bunch of teen-me issues, actually.
So I think you should try that with her.
posted by citands at 10:33 AM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
What would have helped me was a positive, non-judgemental female role model teaching me that I was loved, and how to love myself. I think that would have addressed or prevented a whole bunch of teen-me issues, actually.
So I think you should try that with her.
posted by citands at 10:33 AM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
In my era (which pre-dates the pubic shaving fad) the maternal response to shaving non-leg/pit areas was often an unsolicited box of Jolen creme bleach. I don't think I would say anything, but if I was going to say something, it would be, "hey, I used to use this when I was your age; you can try it out if that hair bothers you."
That is wacky that her father (or you) would want to play razor police, though. Don't. The creepiness here is the lack of privacy, not the shaving.
posted by kmennie at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
That is wacky that her father (or you) would want to play razor police, though. Don't. The creepiness here is the lack of privacy, not the shaving.
posted by kmennie at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
She may be having age appropriate insecurities about her body. Changing from a child with no pubic hair may be uncomfortable with her.
This. When I was around her age, I was utterly disgusted by the existence of my pubes - and this was long before hairless crotches were trendy. This is also the age when it becomes super obvious that some kids are going through puberty and others aren't, and puberty is generally considered a gross thing (and, for girls, there's the added bonus of weight gain when there's pressure to be skinny). Chances are it's about shame, not sex.
And it might not even be that! She might just be experimenting. It's her body hair to do with as she pleases; it doesn't hurt, it grows back, and in the case of pubic hair, no one else is going to notice.
Do not bring up the pube shaving to her, at all, ever. Stop discussing it with your husband, even, because it's not your business or his. You can be supportive about body image stuff, you can be supportive about relationship stuff, but this specific thing is not your business.
He asked her to stop doing it
I didn't notice this until the third read-through of your question, and this is by far the most alarming part to me, even more so than her dad walking in on her in the first place. It is beyond inappropriate for a parent to tell their child what to do with their pubic hair, especially in a father/daughter relationship. That either of you thinks this is an appropriate parental action worries me.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:40 AM on May 12, 2015 [31 favorites]
This. When I was around her age, I was utterly disgusted by the existence of my pubes - and this was long before hairless crotches were trendy. This is also the age when it becomes super obvious that some kids are going through puberty and others aren't, and puberty is generally considered a gross thing (and, for girls, there's the added bonus of weight gain when there's pressure to be skinny). Chances are it's about shame, not sex.
And it might not even be that! She might just be experimenting. It's her body hair to do with as she pleases; it doesn't hurt, it grows back, and in the case of pubic hair, no one else is going to notice.
Do not bring up the pube shaving to her, at all, ever. Stop discussing it with your husband, even, because it's not your business or his. You can be supportive about body image stuff, you can be supportive about relationship stuff, but this specific thing is not your business.
He asked her to stop doing it
I didn't notice this until the third read-through of your question, and this is by far the most alarming part to me, even more so than her dad walking in on her in the first place. It is beyond inappropriate for a parent to tell their child what to do with their pubic hair, especially in a father/daughter relationship. That either of you thinks this is an appropriate parental action worries me.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:40 AM on May 12, 2015 [31 favorites]
I agree with phunniemee and others about having open conversations about sex and contraception and don't bring up the hair.
Guess what, I shaved all my pubic hair when I was 14. Probably only a few months older than your daughter. All my close friends shaved their pubic hair by the time I was about 13 or 14.
My friends convinced me to do it, but I was glad that I did. Their reasoning was that it gets messy when you get your period (mine started a few months later) and that "boys like it more" but I could have cared less about what boys thought at age 14. (And now that I'm a full grown adult, I know that hair is a matter of preference for men and women.) The second part is why you should have conversations about body image, sex, and sexual preferences.
And just because I shaved my pubic hair didn't mean I was off to the races sexually. I just wanted to fit in with my peers and didn't want blood and hair mixing. I didn't have sex until I was 17 which is a pretty average age.
I told my parents I shaved because it was a pretty big deal seeing all that hair go away, and they had a super awkward conversation with me that I should stop shaving, but didn't tell me WHY. I mean the only good reason to not shave is to avoid razor burn, ingrown hairs, and possibly infections but I've never had much of a problem. So I completely ignored them.
I really think you should stop examining this and also assuming that she's having sex because she shaved. It's also summer and lots of swimming suits might show pubic hair depending on the cut of them. 13 is definitely the age that I got very self conscious about being hairy.
posted by Crystalinne at 10:44 AM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Guess what, I shaved all my pubic hair when I was 14. Probably only a few months older than your daughter. All my close friends shaved their pubic hair by the time I was about 13 or 14.
My friends convinced me to do it, but I was glad that I did. Their reasoning was that it gets messy when you get your period (mine started a few months later) and that "boys like it more" but I could have cared less about what boys thought at age 14. (And now that I'm a full grown adult, I know that hair is a matter of preference for men and women.) The second part is why you should have conversations about body image, sex, and sexual preferences.
And just because I shaved my pubic hair didn't mean I was off to the races sexually. I just wanted to fit in with my peers and didn't want blood and hair mixing. I didn't have sex until I was 17 which is a pretty average age.
I told my parents I shaved because it was a pretty big deal seeing all that hair go away, and they had a super awkward conversation with me that I should stop shaving, but didn't tell me WHY. I mean the only good reason to not shave is to avoid razor burn, ingrown hairs, and possibly infections but I've never had much of a problem. So I completely ignored them.
I really think you should stop examining this and also assuming that she's having sex because she shaved. It's also summer and lots of swimming suits might show pubic hair depending on the cut of them. 13 is definitely the age that I got very self conscious about being hairy.
posted by Crystalinne at 10:44 AM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
No, being creeped out is not a good enough reason to bring this up. As a pale-skinned lady with a lot of extremely dark, coarse body hair, I also started shaving everything (including my fingers!) at a young age. Still do. Kids were extremely cruel about my "man" arms, and let's not enough talk about how mortifying it was to be at the pool during the summer. My parents were not really open with me about body issues, and I did it pretty much on my own. I do remember a family member making fun of me for shaving my finger hair, and it made me feel so ashamed...the last thing a teen needs when they feel like they are already under a lens.
If you do in fact feel as though you have to bring it up, how about making it a topic for connection with your step-daughter? Next time you're in the store, walk down the shaving aisle with her; ask her what supplies she needs, talk about waxing vs. shaving etc. Bonus points for explaining how to properly care for shaved skin, pluck/shape eyebrows, and so forth. You are going to have to let her guide those conversations at her comfort level...I hear you that your family has different boundaries (and those seem normal to everyone in your family), but keep in mind that you and your partner ultimately decided on those boundaries, and as a teenager, she might feel that she needs something different. Please listen to her if she says she needs some privacy in this arena.
posted by gollie at 10:54 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you do in fact feel as though you have to bring it up, how about making it a topic for connection with your step-daughter? Next time you're in the store, walk down the shaving aisle with her; ask her what supplies she needs, talk about waxing vs. shaving etc. Bonus points for explaining how to properly care for shaved skin, pluck/shape eyebrows, and so forth. You are going to have to let her guide those conversations at her comfort level...I hear you that your family has different boundaries (and those seem normal to everyone in your family), but keep in mind that you and your partner ultimately decided on those boundaries, and as a teenager, she might feel that she needs something different. Please listen to her if she says she needs some privacy in this arena.
posted by gollie at 10:54 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Good god, don't remark on the appearance of your kid's genitals. She is probably self-conscious about her body hair. 13 is an awful age for body image. Talk to her about that. If you feel she like she needs more information about sexual health, get her more education about sexual health.
And you and your spouse need to give her way more privacy in the bathroom. Boundaries, yo!
posted by stowaway at 10:57 AM on May 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
And you and your spouse need to give her way more privacy in the bathroom. Boundaries, yo!
posted by stowaway at 10:57 AM on May 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
When I was 13 I used to spend hours pulling hair out of my arms and legs with tweezers. No idea why -- I wasn't OCD, I just liked it.
Not saying this action of hers has anything to do with sex, but it's possible she has watched some porn because having a first boyfriend is making her wonder about sexual acts. And the hairless women in porn might have her thinking she needs to likewise denude herself. But that's just a guess.
posted by np312 at 11:01 AM on May 12, 2015
Not saying this action of hers has anything to do with sex, but it's possible she has watched some porn because having a first boyfriend is making her wonder about sexual acts. And the hairless women in porn might have her thinking she needs to likewise denude herself. But that's just a guess.
posted by np312 at 11:01 AM on May 12, 2015
Why is your husband visiting his 13-year-old daughter in the shower? Why are you all walking around naked? Why are the standards different for her than they are for you?
If I were a 13-year-old who lived in a house with few allies (I noticed you referred to "my two children," i.e., she doesn't count), who didn't have a mom because of mental health issues, who had to see my step-parent naked all the time and who wasn't allowed to have agency over my body, I'd be miserable. Give the kid a break.
This. This. This.
posted by Toddles at 11:04 AM on May 12, 2015 [22 favorites]
If I were a 13-year-old who lived in a house with few allies (I noticed you referred to "my two children," i.e., she doesn't count), who didn't have a mom because of mental health issues, who had to see my step-parent naked all the time and who wasn't allowed to have agency over my body, I'd be miserable. Give the kid a break.
This. This. This.
posted by Toddles at 11:04 AM on May 12, 2015 [22 favorites]
If you do in fact feel as though you have to bring it up, how about making it a topic for connection with your step-daughter? Next time you're in the store, walk down the shaving aisle with her; ask her what supplies she needs, talk about waxing vs. shaving etc. Bonus points for explaining how to properly care for shaved skin, pluck/shape eyebrows, and so forth.
I like this, but you're going to have to be sensitive and careful about it. First, let your husband know that the only thing a parent should be concerned about at this stage is that she doesn't hurt herself by getting a lot of rashes/infected ingrowns, etc. Otherwise, shaving is a trivial thing that should be up to her. And he needs to stop saying anything to her about it, at all. Aside from maybe apologizing to her.
Is she her dad's only/oldest/only girl? Because you could use that as opening for her if you took her to the store. "Your dad does not know how to deal with you growing up that well, because he's never done this part of parenting before. But he stepped over the line with barging in on you and I told him that. So, here's what kind of stuff you can use for managing body hair, especially if the razor causes you problems or gives your skin a rash. Every woman is different about how much she shaves, and some shave everything and some shave nothing at all, and so you have to figure out what works for you. I'll be happy to help you with any questions, and we'll respect your privacy more going forward." Or something like that.
13 is still nearly a kid, so she may not be into full-blown "pfft, adults are stupid" mode yet so much as "aaaagh my body, my feelings, life, wtf, this is scary," territory. Being withdrawn is a way of dealing with big scary changes, which is what puberty is. Be her ally so she can know at least one person in the house has been through what she's going through.
posted by emjaybee at 11:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
I like this, but you're going to have to be sensitive and careful about it. First, let your husband know that the only thing a parent should be concerned about at this stage is that she doesn't hurt herself by getting a lot of rashes/infected ingrowns, etc. Otherwise, shaving is a trivial thing that should be up to her. And he needs to stop saying anything to her about it, at all. Aside from maybe apologizing to her.
Is she her dad's only/oldest/only girl? Because you could use that as opening for her if you took her to the store. "Your dad does not know how to deal with you growing up that well, because he's never done this part of parenting before. But he stepped over the line with barging in on you and I told him that. So, here's what kind of stuff you can use for managing body hair, especially if the razor causes you problems or gives your skin a rash. Every woman is different about how much she shaves, and some shave everything and some shave nothing at all, and so you have to figure out what works for you. I'll be happy to help you with any questions, and we'll respect your privacy more going forward." Or something like that.
13 is still nearly a kid, so she may not be into full-blown "pfft, adults are stupid" mode yet so much as "aaaagh my body, my feelings, life, wtf, this is scary," territory. Being withdrawn is a way of dealing with big scary changes, which is what puberty is. Be her ally so she can know at least one person in the house has been through what she's going through.
posted by emjaybee at 11:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
I had pale skin and dark hair and I wish someone had given me bleach, Nair or a trip to a waxer. I know lots of young women who don't like their dark body hair--it's not a particularly uncommon thing to worry about when you're a young teen. Maybe you two could take a trip to a day spa, get pedicures and leg waxes, or something like that?
posted by Ideefixe at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
We don’t believe she is having sex yet as there really isn’t much opportunity for her and the boy to be alone.
Honestly? If she attends school, she has at least eight hours a day to have sex. It's really really easy to skip classes at that age. Do I think that is what she's doing? I have no idea. I'm just saying, if she leaves the house to go to school you genuinely cannot know what she's doing with most of her day.
Make an appointment with a kind, experienced OB/GYN and allow them to talk to her about birth control. And give her some privacy. It's super hard and awkward to be 13 and this might be one small way of exerting control over what is literally a private area and completely her business.
posted by kate blank at 11:14 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Honestly? If she attends school, she has at least eight hours a day to have sex. It's really really easy to skip classes at that age. Do I think that is what she's doing? I have no idea. I'm just saying, if she leaves the house to go to school you genuinely cannot know what she's doing with most of her day.
Make an appointment with a kind, experienced OB/GYN and allow them to talk to her about birth control. And give her some privacy. It's super hard and awkward to be 13 and this might be one small way of exerting control over what is literally a private area and completely her business.
posted by kate blank at 11:14 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is this (particularly your husband's reaction) about her pubic hair or the fact that she's reaching a point where she is or might start having sex? It's scary for a lot of parents, especially fathers, but the genie is out of the bottle as far as the sexual revolution and if she's going to have sex (which I'm not saying she is, just that it's a possibility - plenty of young women shave and have boyfriends at that age without getting into intercourse), she's going to. I'd suggest it's far more important to make sure she has free access to condoms and a safe place to experiment if she's going to do so rather than critiquing her grooming choices.
posted by Candleman at 11:19 AM on May 12, 2015
posted by Candleman at 11:19 AM on May 12, 2015
Most everyone has it here, but I was summoned, so here I am.
My reaction here is that Dad needs to apologize. "Hey, I've been thinking about this, and I made a mistake a couple weeks ago that I want to apologize for. First, I'm sorry I walked in on you showering*. I'm going to make sure to give you privacy. Some times it's hard as a dad to imagine your daughter being on her way to being an adult! Totally my bad. I'll fix that. Secondly, I was wrong to tell you what to do or not to do with your grooming. I think I was just so surprised I panicked! People have different levels of shaving they do or do not do, fashions change through the years, and it's not harmful whatever you decide, except for ingrown hairs, so let us/me/stepmom know if you need anything on that front. "
I could go on and on, since this is my field, but I'll just leave it here that you can memail me if you want.
*If that is what happened. If he just saw hairs and asked or something, just skip this part.
posted by Stewriffic at 11:28 AM on May 12, 2015 [27 favorites]
My reaction here is that Dad needs to apologize. "Hey, I've been thinking about this, and I made a mistake a couple weeks ago that I want to apologize for. First, I'm sorry I walked in on you showering*. I'm going to make sure to give you privacy. Some times it's hard as a dad to imagine your daughter being on her way to being an adult! Totally my bad. I'll fix that. Secondly, I was wrong to tell you what to do or not to do with your grooming. I think I was just so surprised I panicked! People have different levels of shaving they do or do not do, fashions change through the years, and it's not harmful whatever you decide, except for ingrown hairs, so let us/me/stepmom know if you need anything on that front. "
I could go on and on, since this is my field, but I'll just leave it here that you can memail me if you want.
*If that is what happened. If he just saw hairs and asked or something, just skip this part.
posted by Stewriffic at 11:28 AM on May 12, 2015 [27 favorites]
And also realize that that is only the FIRST step in a long dialogue you two should be having with her about bodies and sexuality (and other things like alcohol, curfews, etc). The more you talk, the easier it gets, the more she trusts you, and the more you trust her.
posted by Stewriffic at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Stewriffic at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
First of all, I think you should pay for professional and expert waxing. In short order, the hair on her arms, hands will stop growing in as much and she will feel much much better. She can self-groom her genitals as she wishes. I am sensitive overall to the way she feels about her legs, hands, and arms.
Meanwhile...
Why is her father commenting on her pubic hair and probably violating her privacy further by telling someone she doesn't seem to exactly trust (you) about it so you can potentially "deal" with her?
HOLY SHIT.
I can't get past that. I'm hopeful there is an awesome safe person around for her to discuss sexuality with. I'd feel so ultra violated if I were her right now.
I'm concerned that she's shaving everything on her body, just because she could cut herself. I would offer her the opportunity to get regular waxing. I would find a doctor or family member to discuss sexuality with her.
Her father should apologize for violating her privacy.
posted by jbenben at 11:36 AM on May 12, 2015 [19 favorites]
Meanwhile...
Why is her father commenting on her pubic hair and probably violating her privacy further by telling someone she doesn't seem to exactly trust (you) about it so you can potentially "deal" with her?
HOLY SHIT.
I can't get past that. I'm hopeful there is an awesome safe person around for her to discuss sexuality with. I'd feel so ultra violated if I were her right now.
I'm concerned that she's shaving everything on her body, just because she could cut herself. I would offer her the opportunity to get regular waxing. I would find a doctor or family member to discuss sexuality with her.
Her father should apologize for violating her privacy.
posted by jbenben at 11:36 AM on May 12, 2015 [19 favorites]
i shaved everything years before i saw porn or started having sex with boys. it's totally normal (as you yourself know since you have at times in your life preferred shaved). what is not normal is her father or stepmother commenting on how she grooms her genitals. this is really creepy and you guys need to do some serious soul searching about why you thought it was ok.
posted by nadawi at 11:50 AM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 11:50 AM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Speaking as someone who is extremely pale with black hair: that particular combination can really make your body hair stand out and make you appear extremely hairy even if you're not. And kids at that age are very brutal about pretty much any perceived imperfection, particularly to girls who aren't "supposed" to be hairy.
I know I got called stuff like "gorilla" a few times. People also used to spread rumors that I was the stereotypical butch feminist/lesbian-type because I was hairy and no man would want me because I so ugly anyway (not that there's anything wrong with being feminist, butch or lesbian, but at that age it was mortifying). Even ignoring all the name-calling, I was just super self-conscious about how it looked and shaving my forearms/knuckles was a simple solution. Honestly I still do it now, purely out of vanity.
The pubic hair thing I don't get as much because I didn't do it, but it could also be an extension of this.
posted by Kimmalah at 12:08 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I know I got called stuff like "gorilla" a few times. People also used to spread rumors that I was the stereotypical butch feminist/lesbian-type because I was hairy and no man would want me because I so ugly anyway (not that there's anything wrong with being feminist, butch or lesbian, but at that age it was mortifying). Even ignoring all the name-calling, I was just super self-conscious about how it looked and shaving my forearms/knuckles was a simple solution. Honestly I still do it now, purely out of vanity.
The pubic hair thing I don't get as much because I didn't do it, but it could also be an extension of this.
posted by Kimmalah at 12:08 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
N'thing what everyone else has said about maybe talking to her in a low-stress way about ingrown hairs, waxing, etc. I also think it might be worth mentioning that, while it's totally fine for her to be shaving* if she wants to, she should not have to let anyone else (boyfriend, other girls in the locker room, popular culture) make her feel like she HAS to be bare down there if she doesn't want to be. Just in case that's what going on.
*(ugh... I get wicked ingrown hairs when I shave my pubes, so the thought of 13 year old me dealing with that gives me nightmares. Waxing all the way!)
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:15 PM on May 12, 2015
*(ugh... I get wicked ingrown hairs when I shave my pubes, so the thought of 13 year old me dealing with that gives me nightmares. Waxing all the way!)
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:15 PM on May 12, 2015
Yeah agreed with some of the above commenters. I'm mortified that her father walked in on her naked, shaving her pubic hair and now thinks that is his business and wants to address it rather than GTFOing immediately and either apologising or pretending it didn't happen. This is her business. Talk to her about sexuality and safe sex if you want but she should be allowed to deal with her body hair as she wishes. It's important that she feels that her bodily autonomy and privacy are respected and right now she probably doesn't, because it doesn't sound like they are being respected. What she is doing with her pubic hair is irrelevant to you and her father, period.
posted by hejrat at 12:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by hejrat at 12:27 PM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Also agree with mentions of finding a good, early adolescent therapist who is understanding and she clicks well with. Between what sounds like a father who has serious boundary issues at best and questionable control issues at worst (sorry), a mother with mental health issues, and a step-parent who admits that there is no close relationship, it sounds like it's something she might benefit from if she's amenable to it after a couple of sessions.
posted by hejrat at 12:32 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by hejrat at 12:32 PM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you want her to have a non-biased resource, point her towards Scarleteen. She might be a bit too young for some of it, but it's all very non-sensational and my guess is she's seen/heard much more than this. Here's a Q&A about shaving.
posted by barnone at 12:38 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by barnone at 12:38 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I am 31 and I would STILL be mortified if my father walked in on me in the shower, much less in the midst of shaving my public area!! You hear the water running, you don't go into the bathroom, period. Whatever norms you and your partner have about nudity/private boundaries, I think you need to recognize that a thirteen-year-old is almost certainly going to need and want some privacy, and that really needs to be respected.
Now, completely separately I think 13 (especially with a first boyfriend) is a good age to make sure you're talking about sex, getting her an appointment with a gynecologist, etc. But there is no need to bring pubic hair into that.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:40 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now, completely separately I think 13 (especially with a first boyfriend) is a good age to make sure you're talking about sex, getting her an appointment with a gynecologist, etc. But there is no need to bring pubic hair into that.
posted by rainbowbrite at 12:40 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not to be...whatever, but, well, why what it that her father "discovered" her shaving in the shower again? "Discovered" meaning "actually observed while it was going on"? What? I mean, I'm assuming that means that he noticed pubic hair on the side portion of the shower or something like that, but I sure hope that's all it means. Otherwise, hate to say it, but there's a lot more worrisome stuff going on here than your daughter shaving her hair.
But yeah, it's deeply, deeply inappropriate for him (or you, but especially him) to be commenting on anything his 13-year-old daughter is doing with her genitals while she's grooming. It's not unusual for girls that age to start trimming or what have you; I certainly did long before I ever saw anything resembling porn or had even dated a boy at all.
Having said that, yeah -- putting aside all the other boundary issues and so forth, shaving the genitals can be tricky because of the potential for infections and so on, which can get pretty nasty down there where it's warm and wet and usually dark. Not sure how you deal with warning her about that, though, other than maybe having her doctor address it.
posted by holborne at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
But yeah, it's deeply, deeply inappropriate for him (or you, but especially him) to be commenting on anything his 13-year-old daughter is doing with her genitals while she's grooming. It's not unusual for girls that age to start trimming or what have you; I certainly did long before I ever saw anything resembling porn or had even dated a boy at all.
Having said that, yeah -- putting aside all the other boundary issues and so forth, shaving the genitals can be tricky because of the potential for infections and so on, which can get pretty nasty down there where it's warm and wet and usually dark. Not sure how you deal with warning her about that, though, other than maybe having her doctor address it.
posted by holborne at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
because her boundaries have already been violated by a father trying to control something that is seriously not under his jurisdiction, if you feel you must have a conversation about razor burn or safety, work out have to have it completely free of any talks about her vulva. ingrown hairs can happen under the arms or on the legs and you can approach the conversation from there.
posted by nadawi at 12:49 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 12:49 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Consider that it's also extremely valuable to reinforce that she has her own agency over her body, especially over things that happen on or around her vulva. No one, not you, not her dad, not her boyfriend, is ever justified in dictating or controlling what she does with it.
posted by phunniemee at 12:51 PM on May 12, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 12:51 PM on May 12, 2015 [17 favorites]
I'm sorry, but the fact that you/partner think its acceptable to walk in on your daughter showering AT ALL is so deeply disturbing to me. Couple that with commenting on the way that she styles her pubic hair......fuck. Full stop.
I'm at my parent's house this weekend and my mom has walked into the room without knocking a few times while I'm fully dressed sitting on my bed and I still felt like my boundaries had been crossed. People, even super nudity-comfy people need privacy, especially teenagers. Nthing posters above. Dad needs to apologize, provide her with information and a basket of fresh razors, and stop inspecting your daughter's body. It's not yours.
As to why she's doing it, who knows? I started shaving everything from 10 until about 25. I didn't even know what my own full-grown pubic hairs looked like until this last year because I just didn't like it. Don't worry about it.
posted by Marinara at 1:35 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm at my parent's house this weekend and my mom has walked into the room without knocking a few times while I'm fully dressed sitting on my bed and I still felt like my boundaries had been crossed. People, even super nudity-comfy people need privacy, especially teenagers. Nthing posters above. Dad needs to apologize, provide her with information and a basket of fresh razors, and stop inspecting your daughter's body. It's not yours.
As to why she's doing it, who knows? I started shaving everything from 10 until about 25. I didn't even know what my own full-grown pubic hairs looked like until this last year because I just didn't like it. Don't worry about it.
posted by Marinara at 1:35 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Trying to control the few things she feels she has real control over - her own body - especially given there is no direct harm to her from this practice (unlike anorexia, for example) seems like a failing strategy.
As the step parent with a not-so-great relationship, I'd focus as much as possible on relationship building not rule making (let dad be the rule guy).
If shaving does reflect a troubling set of (as now unknown) behaviors, she really needs a trustworthy adult she can talk to honestly. So I'd endevour to be that person as challenging as it can be with a teen step kid.
posted by latkes at 2:23 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
As the step parent with a not-so-great relationship, I'd focus as much as possible on relationship building not rule making (let dad be the rule guy).
If shaving does reflect a troubling set of (as now unknown) behaviors, she really needs a trustworthy adult she can talk to honestly. So I'd endevour to be that person as challenging as it can be with a teen step kid.
posted by latkes at 2:23 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, yeah, I am a woman and I do not walk in my 12 year old daughter when she showers. She does actually change in front of me at times so I do still see her naked or partially naked periodically, but if she was only choosing to be naked in private I would not.
posted by latkes at 2:24 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by latkes at 2:24 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
Thanks for all the input. As I indicated, nudity is not a big deal in our house. (Think Dutch. Though we're not Dutch.) My stepdaughter leaves the bathroom door open when she is doing No. 1 and 2, and the door of her own room ajar when she is changing or naked, so I don't think she has a problem with her privacy not being respected. While I am less open about my own nudity, I don't go out of my way to hide if she happens to see me get out of bed undressed or walks in on me when I step out of the shower.posted by cortex (staff) at 2:32 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I get your point that her pubes are her own business. In fact I do not want to discuss ingrowing hairs or shaving with her at all, because if she doesn't have a question about it, I am going to assume she is handling it fine.
As for her father commenting on her shaving, he told her she would get stubble on her fingers - I don't know that he referred directly to the pubic shaving. And yes, she totally left a mess of hairs in the bathroom the first time.
I think recommending therapy just so she can have a sympathetic ear is a little over the top, and I know she balks at the idea (her father raised it with regard to her falling grades and disinterested attitude). Growing up, I most certainly didn't discuss pubic shaving or anything intimate with my own mother.
You've answered my concern about whether the shaving was a sign of something creepy - sounds like most people think it's not - and I see your point, so I'll back off.
My relationship with her has never been great in the past three years we’ve lived together, but it feels like she has really ‘checked out’ of our home and family since becoming a teenager.
yeah, that's what teenagers do. Because they are becoming adults and they need to feel that they have boundaries and self-autonomy that's respected. And yes, there are checks that loving adults have to put on that because teenagers also do really dumb shit sometimes, but what she does in the shower is not one of those situations.
if you want to stop being "freaked out" by her body, maybe...stop looking at her naked? I mean Jesus.
posted by kagredon at 2:34 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
yeah, that's what teenagers do. Because they are becoming adults and they need to feel that they have boundaries and self-autonomy that's respected. And yes, there are checks that loving adults have to put on that because teenagers also do really dumb shit sometimes, but what she does in the shower is not one of those situations.
if you want to stop being "freaked out" by her body, maybe...stop looking at her naked? I mean Jesus.
posted by kagredon at 2:34 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
whoops. on not-preview, never mind.
I think recommending therapy just so she can have a sympathetic ear is a little over the top, and I know she balks at the idea (her father raised it with regard to her falling grades and disinterested attitude). Growing up, I most certainly didn't discuss pubic shaving or anything intimate with my own mother.
I think the suggestion upthread about getting a referral to a good gyno who specializes in teens is not a bad one, or even just discreetly pointing her to good-quality age-appropriate resources like Scarleteen. She's dating, she's in puberty, it's a normal referral to get at that age. It's not surprising that she'd balk at therapy if it was raised in regards to grades/attitude (which...again, disinterested is sort of what teenagers...do. I'm a little unsure what you're expecting from her.) I'm not sure if it's necessary here, but if you're concerned you wouldn't know whether there are "creepy" things going on, then having one more adult in her life she can go to can't hurt, no?
posted by kagredon at 2:46 PM on May 12, 2015
I think recommending therapy just so she can have a sympathetic ear is a little over the top, and I know she balks at the idea (her father raised it with regard to her falling grades and disinterested attitude). Growing up, I most certainly didn't discuss pubic shaving or anything intimate with my own mother.
I think the suggestion upthread about getting a referral to a good gyno who specializes in teens is not a bad one, or even just discreetly pointing her to good-quality age-appropriate resources like Scarleteen. She's dating, she's in puberty, it's a normal referral to get at that age. It's not surprising that she'd balk at therapy if it was raised in regards to grades/attitude (which...again, disinterested is sort of what teenagers...do. I'm a little unsure what you're expecting from her.) I'm not sure if it's necessary here, but if you're concerned you wouldn't know whether there are "creepy" things going on, then having one more adult in her life she can go to can't hurt, no?
posted by kagredon at 2:46 PM on May 12, 2015
Her dad needs boundaries. He shouldn't be "walking in" on his 13-year-old daughter in the shower, and if he does walk in by accident, he sure as hell shouldn't be in there long enough to notice something that specific. She needs to know from both of you that her privacy will be respected.
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 2:49 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 2:49 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Beyond boundaries, why was her father's first reaction to tell her to stop doing it? That that happened, and that you were apparently unconcerned enough about that to not elaborate on it any more, is what sticks out the most to me about this. It feels like there's an "of COURSE she shouldn't be doing this and it's our responsibility to stop it" to this which is troublesome.
Barring a religious (which I would find personally offensive, but am willing to grant exemption for because people are irrational about such things) or medical (which I can't possibly fathom in this case) reason, I can think of no legitimate cause for a father or step mother to control a pubescent girl's private grooming habits. It's not like she's getting a tattoo, or other permanent modification. It's not like she's dying her hair purple, or doing something else public enough to have a meaningful effect on her. This is something that's in theory staying in her pants -- and if it's not, that is what you have reason to have a discussion about. At this age, that's good enough to me (and to most others here, it seems) to file under "it's her body, not yours, leave it alone."
I'd suggest that perhaps reflecting on what your reaction, and your partner's, to this indicates about your general perspective regarding personal autonomy, teenage sexuality, and appropriate degrees of control, might be a better use of mental energy than worrying about how to tell a 13 year old girl not to do something that makes her more comfortable with her own body.
posted by jammer at 3:00 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Barring a religious (which I would find personally offensive, but am willing to grant exemption for because people are irrational about such things) or medical (which I can't possibly fathom in this case) reason, I can think of no legitimate cause for a father or step mother to control a pubescent girl's private grooming habits. It's not like she's getting a tattoo, or other permanent modification. It's not like she's dying her hair purple, or doing something else public enough to have a meaningful effect on her. This is something that's in theory staying in her pants -- and if it's not, that is what you have reason to have a discussion about. At this age, that's good enough to me (and to most others here, it seems) to file under "it's her body, not yours, leave it alone."
I'd suggest that perhaps reflecting on what your reaction, and your partner's, to this indicates about your general perspective regarding personal autonomy, teenage sexuality, and appropriate degrees of control, might be a better use of mental energy than worrying about how to tell a 13 year old girl not to do something that makes her more comfortable with her own body.
posted by jammer at 3:00 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
"...., because if she doesn't have a question about it, I am going to assume she is handling it fine."
I'm pretty sure no one here meant that the parental figures in her life should leave a 13 year old girl to muddle through the transition into womanhood on her own.
It's not normal for a 13 year old girl to shave off all body hair, and the only problem her parents register is that she leaves a mess behind in the bathroom.
I'm going to invite you to pretend this young person in your home is you at her age, but with an absent mentally ill mother. I'm pretty sure this young person needs something in the way of care and guidance.
I'm hoping your step-daughter's inner life isn't as lonely and overwhelming as it sounds to be.
posted by jbenben at 3:06 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm pretty sure no one here meant that the parental figures in her life should leave a 13 year old girl to muddle through the transition into womanhood on her own.
It's not normal for a 13 year old girl to shave off all body hair, and the only problem her parents register is that she leaves a mess behind in the bathroom.
I'm going to invite you to pretend this young person in your home is you at her age, but with an absent mentally ill mother. I'm pretty sure this young person needs something in the way of care and guidance.
I'm hoping your step-daughter's inner life isn't as lonely and overwhelming as it sounds to be.
posted by jbenben at 3:06 PM on May 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
he told her she would get stubble on her fingers - I don't know that he referred directly to the pubic shaving
I'm kind of creeped out that you don't know if he asked her to stop shaving her pubic hair or not. If you care about this young lady you should determine if her father has been telling her how to groom her pubic hair -- because if he has that is really extremely inappropriate at the very least, and at worst a sign of Very Bad things.
And if it is just about shaving her fingers, so what if she gets stubble? This seems like a harmless consequence that she can learn about on her own. Focus on being there for her in a supportive way instead of forbidding harmless things.
As far as if it's "normal", sometimes it just feels nice to shave off the hair on, say, one's arms. No, it's not something most people choose to do, but that doesn't mean she needs some sort of therapy for it, and acting as if it does is going to alienate her.
posted by yohko at 3:33 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm kind of creeped out that you don't know if he asked her to stop shaving her pubic hair or not. If you care about this young lady you should determine if her father has been telling her how to groom her pubic hair -- because if he has that is really extremely inappropriate at the very least, and at worst a sign of Very Bad things.
And if it is just about shaving her fingers, so what if she gets stubble? This seems like a harmless consequence that she can learn about on her own. Focus on being there for her in a supportive way instead of forbidding harmless things.
As far as if it's "normal", sometimes it just feels nice to shave off the hair on, say, one's arms. No, it's not something most people choose to do, but that doesn't mean she needs some sort of therapy for it, and acting as if it does is going to alienate her.
posted by yohko at 3:33 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just want to clarify that the experimentation with shaving is TOTALLY NORMAL.
The perspective that this person has to navigate the transitions into young womanhood pretty much without older female guidance? Like I said, I hope I'm misreading this.
posted by jbenben at 3:54 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
The perspective that this person has to navigate the transitions into young womanhood pretty much without older female guidance? Like I said, I hope I'm misreading this.
posted by jbenben at 3:54 PM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
2nd Kimmalah. I have fuzzy arms, and it's made for some very unpleasant memories of teasing starting at, yeah, just before puberty, up until the beginning of highschool. It's possible that at some point she decided there was no elegant way to stop shaving at whatever was bothering her (because if you shave up to a point, that creates a line there, right, and that might be unacceptable to a preteen, given their unrealistic standards). The continuation into the pubic hair may be partly that and partly that she knows it's so widely done everywhere (including by you). The thing I'd worry about would be that kind of anxious preoccupation, if it's accompanied by body shame (vs. anything "creepy").
If that's an issue, I think it's worth addressing, with mental health help and/or more pragmatically dealing with her concerns. I at least found every method of dealing with body hair pretty traumatic at that age. Shaving frequently is a PITA, even if it's just legs, but I can imagine doing the whole body must be just awful. (I shaved my arms a few times back then, and remember freaking out about the possibility of missing a spot, left me very self-conscious.) Waxing is painful and no better for ingrowns. Bleaching burns, especially that young skin. Laser is a good, if expensive and not entirely permanent solution (for adults, not sure if it's done on kids). That might be something you guys could help her with in the future.
But I don't think there's really a way of approaching it until/unless you work to build more trust and improve your relationship with her overall.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:16 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If that's an issue, I think it's worth addressing, with mental health help and/or more pragmatically dealing with her concerns. I at least found every method of dealing with body hair pretty traumatic at that age. Shaving frequently is a PITA, even if it's just legs, but I can imagine doing the whole body must be just awful. (I shaved my arms a few times back then, and remember freaking out about the possibility of missing a spot, left me very self-conscious.) Waxing is painful and no better for ingrowns. Bleaching burns, especially that young skin. Laser is a good, if expensive and not entirely permanent solution (for adults, not sure if it's done on kids). That might be something you guys could help her with in the future.
But I don't think there's really a way of approaching it until/unless you work to build more trust and improve your relationship with her overall.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:16 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're not comfortable with a therapist, is there a cool aunt in the picture, one of her friends' moms who she can talk to, or another adult woman she likes and you trust to mostly steer her straight that you can call up and say "Hey, can you take kiddo out for lunch and talk to her about body hair and shaving and let her know we love her, just make healthy choices blah blah." It could be body issues, it could be experimentation, who knows. But having a safe trusted grown-up to talk to outside the family is a very valuable thing for a teenager.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:39 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
As someone who got picked on a lot in school for having hairy arms and legs, I wish I had started shaving/waxing at 13! As I got older, I got used to waxing off all my body hair, including Brazilian waxes, simply because body hair annoys the hell out of me and I feel so much cleaner without it.
That is to say, don't immediately assume there is anything sexual about it, or that she has a body image problem unless she's exhibiting other signs of either.
posted by redlines at 2:28 AM on May 13, 2015
That is to say, don't immediately assume there is anything sexual about it, or that she has a body image problem unless she's exhibiting other signs of either.
posted by redlines at 2:28 AM on May 13, 2015
Also, yes, her dad should stop walking in on her, and both of you should reconsider the nudity thing.
posted by redlines at 2:30 AM on May 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by redlines at 2:30 AM on May 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why are you considering telling someone else what they must do with their own genitals? That is amazingly creepy and potentially damaging. You don't want her to learn that other people get to dictate what goes on down there. That is a terrible idea.
And shaving your body isn't especially weird. I don't even have dark body hair, and I started shaving my arms and legs at about 14. I tried shaving my pubic hair then, didn't like it, and started again at 25 when I decided I did. I am now 35, and I still shave pretty much everything. Why not? I prefer the way it looks and feels. Maybe she does too.
posted by Because at 6:14 AM on May 14, 2015
And shaving your body isn't especially weird. I don't even have dark body hair, and I started shaving my arms and legs at about 14. I tried shaving my pubic hair then, didn't like it, and started again at 25 when I decided I did. I am now 35, and I still shave pretty much everything. Why not? I prefer the way it looks and feels. Maybe she does too.
posted by Because at 6:14 AM on May 14, 2015
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
I thought we had put this issue to bed but I've now learnt my stepdaughter also goes without panties. She says she finds them uncomfortable. (She does wear a bra.)posted by cortex (staff) at 9:23 AM on May 22, 2015
She wears shorts, miniskirts, leggings, tight jeans and short dresses, and it seems majorly unhygienic, not to mention the sexual aspect which I can't help but worry about. She is just 13 and a half.
She is quite aware of sexuality, and has been making "That's what she said" jokes lately.
Hmm, I don't think it's "majorly unhygienic" and I'm not sure there is inherently an oversexualized thing going on, however, if there is, I strongly recommend the family take a curious, compassionate approach to this and not a punitive one.
The WORST position you can be in, as a parent, is to get your kid defending their dangerous position. If you come at anything as an argument: "You shouldn't wear that!" the kid (like all humans) will naturally respond by pushing back, "I can wear whatever I want because...".
From a psychological point of view, you don't want your kid verbalizing all the reasons she thinks it's OK to do something that you think is dangerous. Her repeated verbalization of this argument reinforce the OK-ness of the behavior in her own head.
With this specific issue, with the added sexual connotations, you're in danger of not getting to know what is going on with her. You want and need an open door, so she feels comfortable sharing with you if she does start engaging in dangerous sexual behavior (or becomes the victim of sexual abuse). Shaming her will close the door of communication.
You might want to google around about Motivational Interviewing. It's a technique to bring forth people's own motivation to make safer choices.
posted by latkes at 11:12 AM on May 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
The WORST position you can be in, as a parent, is to get your kid defending their dangerous position. If you come at anything as an argument: "You shouldn't wear that!" the kid (like all humans) will naturally respond by pushing back, "I can wear whatever I want because...".
From a psychological point of view, you don't want your kid verbalizing all the reasons she thinks it's OK to do something that you think is dangerous. Her repeated verbalization of this argument reinforce the OK-ness of the behavior in her own head.
With this specific issue, with the added sexual connotations, you're in danger of not getting to know what is going on with her. You want and need an open door, so she feels comfortable sharing with you if she does start engaging in dangerous sexual behavior (or becomes the victim of sexual abuse). Shaming her will close the door of communication.
You might want to google around about Motivational Interviewing. It's a technique to bring forth people's own motivation to make safer choices.
posted by latkes at 11:12 AM on May 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
i started going without underwear a long long time ago - and for me, personally, my hygiene issues got better, not worse.
look, she's going to start having sex - chances are withing the next 3-5 years - finding all these maybe clues about it isn't going to change that. it sounds like she really needs someone neutral to talk to - i know you already said counseling isn't the answer, but you might want to reconsider. she sounds like someone who could feel like no one is really on her side and that's a dangerous thing for a teen to feel. don't make the counseling about something she's doing wrong (falling grades) or something that needs to be fixed (her underwear or shaving habits) but rather about giving her someone who won't run back to her parents who she can just bounce stuff off of.
posted by nadawi at 1:04 PM on May 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
look, she's going to start having sex - chances are withing the next 3-5 years - finding all these maybe clues about it isn't going to change that. it sounds like she really needs someone neutral to talk to - i know you already said counseling isn't the answer, but you might want to reconsider. she sounds like someone who could feel like no one is really on her side and that's a dangerous thing for a teen to feel. don't make the counseling about something she's doing wrong (falling grades) or something that needs to be fixed (her underwear or shaving habits) but rather about giving her someone who won't run back to her parents who she can just bounce stuff off of.
posted by nadawi at 1:04 PM on May 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Loads of people don't wear underwear. Their bottoms don't rot off or anything. Underpants are not magical. Presumably she wipes after using the toilet, bathes, and washes her clothing? Then the hygienic issues are sorted.
I agree with the idea that she could use a supportive professional. You sound very judgy in odd ways and just somehow not well-equipped to handle parenting a teen girl, in ways I find baffling. Were you very sheltered growing up? Did you not have a positive relationship with an older female when you were young? Is there a cultural issue afoot?
It just seems very odd to be so bothered by the shaving and so unaware that it isn't uncommon, and so odd to find it noteworthy that a 13.5yo has a boyfriend, and so odd to be skeeved out by going commando, that I almost want to say 'stop trying to talk to this kid -- you are only going to make things worse.' Maybe you should, I don't know -- certainly no good is going to come of you shaming her for shaving or not wearing underpants.
posted by kmennie at 2:15 PM on May 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I agree with the idea that she could use a supportive professional. You sound very judgy in odd ways and just somehow not well-equipped to handle parenting a teen girl, in ways I find baffling. Were you very sheltered growing up? Did you not have a positive relationship with an older female when you were young? Is there a cultural issue afoot?
It just seems very odd to be so bothered by the shaving and so unaware that it isn't uncommon, and so odd to find it noteworthy that a 13.5yo has a boyfriend, and so odd to be skeeved out by going commando, that I almost want to say 'stop trying to talk to this kid -- you are only going to make things worse.' Maybe you should, I don't know -- certainly no good is going to come of you shaming her for shaving or not wearing underpants.
posted by kmennie at 2:15 PM on May 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
In absence of other major issues, it's very unlikely that going without panties would lead to "unhygienic" or have a "sexual aspect" for a 13.5-year-old. To be honest, the bigger problem here is that you seem to be reading and investing a lot of weird expectations into her grooming and clothing choices, at a time and in a situation where that is probably a sensitive issue w/r/t her autonomy and privacy.
"That's what she said" jokes are de rigeur for early-teens who like the rise it gets out of adults, whether or not they're educated about the actual mechanics of sex. I would not extrapolate awareness or knowledge of sexuality from that for a 13-year-old.
posted by kagredon at 5:42 PM on May 23, 2015
"That's what she said" jokes are de rigeur for early-teens who like the rise it gets out of adults, whether or not they're educated about the actual mechanics of sex. I would not extrapolate awareness or knowledge of sexuality from that for a 13-year-old.
posted by kagredon at 5:42 PM on May 23, 2015
I mean, I had sex when I was 13. While I don't think any of this is ~scandalous evidence~ of her sexual activity, it's not too much to assume that in 2015 she is aware of the whole p-in-v rigamarole. This is why I'd like to gently second recommendations for
-her first gynecological visit - this is the right age, regardless of anything else that might be going on
-the providing of third party, comprehensive, non-judgemental information about sexuality and sex from a source like Scarleteen
You're worried about her making poor choices around her sexuality, yes? That's where all this obsessing over stuff that is pretty private to her is coming from, yes? Empower her to make good choices where it really matters, around stuff like consent and birth control, and maybe the superficial stuff won't seem like it matters so much.
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:42 AM on May 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
-her first gynecological visit - this is the right age, regardless of anything else that might be going on
-the providing of third party, comprehensive, non-judgemental information about sexuality and sex from a source like Scarleteen
You're worried about her making poor choices around her sexuality, yes? That's where all this obsessing over stuff that is pretty private to her is coming from, yes? Empower her to make good choices where it really matters, around stuff like consent and birth control, and maybe the superficial stuff won't seem like it matters so much.
posted by Juliet Banana at 9:42 AM on May 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If she is this concerned/upset about her body hair, it's pretty clear that she'd want to shave her pubes, too. Honestly I'd just try to have a little talk with her about everyone having hair and us being mammals and it being normal, and then let her do what she likes with her body hair. Don't conflate this with worries about her sexual activity.
posted by fiercecupcake at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [32 favorites]