Is it time to move on?
May 8, 2015 7:29 AM Subscribe
My bf and I have been together for almost 2 years, we have talked about getting married for about year and he still has not asked. Should I be concerned?
I have known my bf since 2008 but we were just acquaintance's. We would say hi if we saw each other out, have small talk.. we have some mutual friends, etc. Anyways, when we decided to start dating he asked me about marriage, kids, etc. and I told him I want to get married and have kids 100%. He is 39 and will be 40 in Nov, has been married and have 2 daughters (been divorced since 2010). I am 28 will be 29 in September and have never been married and have no kids. He said he would like to get married again and as far as kids he wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 more but was fine if he didn't. We do not live together, I own a condo and he has a house, he has asked me to move in but I won't until I get a ring, with that being said I do stay at his place 5/6 nights a week but I want the security (ring) before I really move it. FAST FORWARD: we have been talking about getting for about a year, we have tried on rings, looked at rings, he has told me several times "I want you to be my wife," "let's do this." He told my Aunt last year he was going to propose last July 4th but his stepbrother purposed to his girl so it messed things up for him (which is complete BS bc he didn't have a ring). He will send me emjio's of a ring and a kiss face, etc. Our friends, family, etc. are always saying "come on dude, what's going on.. when are you gonna do it" etc., I use to bring it up but have stopped because he said he felt pressured. So, now he is telling me to just relax that it will happen, he is feeling pressured, he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!? We have been bickering more lately and I think its because of this whole proposal thing. I am really starting to feel insecure.. wondering if he even wants to get married or if he is talking a bunch of crap :/ I am also starting to have anxiety over it, overanalyzing, etc. What do I do? I love him and do not want to break up but I also do not want to be lead on.
I have known my bf since 2008 but we were just acquaintance's. We would say hi if we saw each other out, have small talk.. we have some mutual friends, etc. Anyways, when we decided to start dating he asked me about marriage, kids, etc. and I told him I want to get married and have kids 100%. He is 39 and will be 40 in Nov, has been married and have 2 daughters (been divorced since 2010). I am 28 will be 29 in September and have never been married and have no kids. He said he would like to get married again and as far as kids he wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 more but was fine if he didn't. We do not live together, I own a condo and he has a house, he has asked me to move in but I won't until I get a ring, with that being said I do stay at his place 5/6 nights a week but I want the security (ring) before I really move it. FAST FORWARD: we have been talking about getting for about a year, we have tried on rings, looked at rings, he has told me several times "I want you to be my wife," "let's do this." He told my Aunt last year he was going to propose last July 4th but his stepbrother purposed to his girl so it messed things up for him (which is complete BS bc he didn't have a ring). He will send me emjio's of a ring and a kiss face, etc. Our friends, family, etc. are always saying "come on dude, what's going on.. when are you gonna do it" etc., I use to bring it up but have stopped because he said he felt pressured. So, now he is telling me to just relax that it will happen, he is feeling pressured, he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!? We have been bickering more lately and I think its because of this whole proposal thing. I am really starting to feel insecure.. wondering if he even wants to get married or if he is talking a bunch of crap :/ I am also starting to have anxiety over it, overanalyzing, etc. What do I do? I love him and do not want to break up but I also do not want to be lead on.
he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
Are you guys fighting all the time?
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Are you guys fighting all the time?
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
You mentioned that he may be waiting until you have a "couple good months" of not fighting," which sends up a little red flag for me. Is there a lot of fighting going on right now? If so, is it only about the ring/proposal? That may be something to explore.
posted by xingcat at 7:41 AM on May 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 7:41 AM on May 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
He will send me emjio's of a ring and a kiss face, etc.
Yeah, that means nothing.
he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
You might want to do yourself a favor and get married to someone you don't fight with as often. It really makes for a nice marriage.
Have you straight up asked him "Ok, dude, what the hell? What are we going to get married?"
Though you sound like you're more of the traditional type, as others have said, it's 2015 so there's really no reason you can't propose to him.
posted by bondcliff at 7:42 AM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Yeah, that means nothing.
he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
You might want to do yourself a favor and get married to someone you don't fight with as often. It really makes for a nice marriage.
Have you straight up asked him "Ok, dude, what the hell? What are we going to get married?"
Though you sound like you're more of the traditional type, as others have said, it's 2015 so there's really no reason you can't propose to him.
posted by bondcliff at 7:42 AM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Actions speak louder than words in this type of situation, I'm afraid.
If you keep bum rushing him, bickering about it, applying pressure, and generally being a nuisance about it, he's going to put the brakes on, because that's what people do.
Would YOU want to get married to you right now?
You need to sit down and have an Adult Conversation.
One without bickering, without threats, without any sort of interference or influence from friends and family.
This is between the two of you and needs to be KEPT between the two of you.
Two years could be considered a very short time for dating, and you haven't even been living under the same roof full time as a couple yet.
Ask questions.
Be honest.
Be open.
ALLOW HIM TO DO THE SAME.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 7:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you keep bum rushing him, bickering about it, applying pressure, and generally being a nuisance about it, he's going to put the brakes on, because that's what people do.
Would YOU want to get married to you right now?
You need to sit down and have an Adult Conversation.
One without bickering, without threats, without any sort of interference or influence from friends and family.
This is between the two of you and needs to be KEPT between the two of you.
Two years could be considered a very short time for dating, and you haven't even been living under the same roof full time as a couple yet.
Ask questions.
Be honest.
Be open.
ALLOW HIM TO DO THE SAME.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 7:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [6 favorites]
Firstly, a ring doesn't mean what you think it means. It can be as symbolic as you make it yourself, so if you're finding yourself anxious because he hasn't put one on your finger, then maybe it's time to re-assess how important you've made it in your life. As a very distant bystander, my view is that you've escalated it to a level of importance that's quite a way above what it should be, and what is healthy, really.
Secondly, yeah - propose. We are sooooo far past the point where women/anyone needs to sit around and wait to be proposed to. If you want to get engaged that bad, ask him. If he says no, then you know the answer to the question in the title of this post .
posted by greenish at 7:44 AM on May 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
Secondly, yeah - propose. We are sooooo far past the point where women/anyone needs to sit around and wait to be proposed to. If you want to get engaged that bad, ask him. If he says no, then you know the answer to the question in the title of this post .
posted by greenish at 7:44 AM on May 8, 2015 [29 favorites]
I'm confused as to why you know he doesn't have a ring? If you guys have been looking at rings and talking about this openly, it's possible he does have one picked out...
In any case, I would reduce the focus on "the ring" and more on your relationship. If you guys are constantly bickering and unable to talk about this topic openly as two adults, do you really want to marry this guy? If those things are relatively minor, then I agree with folks above that you should just go for it and propose to him! A friend of mine did this with a nice watch instead of a ring (because she knew that's what her fiance would want/wear more than a ring).
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
In any case, I would reduce the focus on "the ring" and more on your relationship. If you guys are constantly bickering and unable to talk about this topic openly as two adults, do you really want to marry this guy? If those things are relatively minor, then I agree with folks above that you should just go for it and propose to him! A friend of mine did this with a nice watch instead of a ring (because she knew that's what her fiance would want/wear more than a ring).
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Actions, to me, speak much louder than words. (on preview what the Major said above) It is one thing to say you are willing to get remarried and have kids, it is another to actually do it. My guess is that his hesitation is not about you, but about the whole concept. It seems to me that if he were to be comfortable getting remarried, you are clearly the person with whom he would do it. I think the discussion should be about the concept. I also think asking him to marry you will call the issue and might be a good idea.
posted by AugustWest at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by AugustWest at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
None of this sounds like the actions of a guy who wants to get married. If he doesn't want to be married, do you want to be married to him?
posted by Rock Steady at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
he wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 more but was fine if he didn't
Reading between the lines, it sounds like he doesn't want more kids. Don't know if that's related to the rest of it.
but I want the security (ring) before I really move it
You're setting yourself up for even worse disappointment if you tie security to a rock on a metal band.
posted by supercres at 7:46 AM on May 8, 2015 [35 favorites]
Reading between the lines, it sounds like he doesn't want more kids. Don't know if that's related to the rest of it.
but I want the security (ring) before I really move it
You're setting yourself up for even worse disappointment if you tie security to a rock on a metal band.
posted by supercres at 7:46 AM on May 8, 2015 [35 favorites]
So, now he is telling me to just relax that it will happen, he is feeling pressured, he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
I see other posters have picked up on the fighting as well. We have no way of knowing if that's a huge blowup on a weekly basis or a minor disagreement about what to watch on Netflix once a month, but it's a troubling statement nonetheless.
For what it's worth, I knew a few women who badgered and pressured their partners to marry them. Most of them are now in miserable marriages or divorced. Some have just stayed engaged for years and years with no wedding in sight. Just saying. I'm with everyone who says go ahead and propose to him.
Also, everybody has different timelines. My partner and I have been together for nine years, he's 42 and I'm almost 36 and we are just starting to talk about marriage. Have an adult conversation about it.
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I see other posters have picked up on the fighting as well. We have no way of knowing if that's a huge blowup on a weekly basis or a minor disagreement about what to watch on Netflix once a month, but it's a troubling statement nonetheless.
For what it's worth, I knew a few women who badgered and pressured their partners to marry them. Most of them are now in miserable marriages or divorced. Some have just stayed engaged for years and years with no wedding in sight. Just saying. I'm with everyone who says go ahead and propose to him.
Also, everybody has different timelines. My partner and I have been together for nine years, he's 42 and I'm almost 36 and we are just starting to talk about marriage. Have an adult conversation about it.
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
This seems like a time to just have a calm, lay it all out discussion about this. When my husband and I were dating, he said he wasn't sure he wanted children, and that we couldn't be married until he was sure. He would ask me hypothetical questions about what we might do in various situations related to children (e.g., What do you think about religion? Where would we live? etc.), but then would kind of shake his head at my responses. It was aggravating and anxiety provoking. Finally, one day I just said "I know I want to have children, and I would like to be married to you and have them with you. I understand you're not sure, but these little tests are making me really unhappy. You know I will have to move away for (a work obligation) on X date (many months in the future). I'd like you to decide what you would like to do before then. You also know what kind of person I am and know my values. I can't cope with anymore hypothetical tests, so that needs to stop. If you want to talk about it, please share what you think about it first and we can discuss it." And that was that. The pressure was off both of us. I didn't feel pressured to convince him, he didn't feel nagged or pressured, and we got engaged a few months later.
So my advice is to talk about this when you're calm, tell him exactly what you want. Let him know that for your own sanity you can't wait around forever (making a date for yourself might be helpful or might not), and you will not be discussing it any further. But also let him know that he cannot make behavioral hoops for you to jump through to "earn" a proposal. That's cruel and infantalizing.
posted by goggie at 7:57 AM on May 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
So my advice is to talk about this when you're calm, tell him exactly what you want. Let him know that for your own sanity you can't wait around forever (making a date for yourself might be helpful or might not), and you will not be discussing it any further. But also let him know that he cannot make behavioral hoops for you to jump through to "earn" a proposal. That's cruel and infantalizing.
posted by goggie at 7:57 AM on May 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
My standard advice to women waiting for boyfriends to propose is to mentally set a deadline. If he doesn't propose by that date, then you propose.
However, that advice rests on the assumption that the relationship is healthy and that both partners want to get married and know what they're heading into. I don't think that this is the case for you, unfortunately.
Other answers have mentioned the fighting being a potential flag, and that the ring doesn't guarantee security ("Forget the ring! The Schwartz is in YOU!"), and I agree. I also suspect that your boyfriend's regular mentions of the ring and emojis (emojis, really?) are hollow. He's dangling the promise of an engagement in front of you because he knows that's what will get you to stay.
I bet you three months' salary he'll keep hemming and hawing on the proposal, but once you decide to leave, he'll have a ring within 24 hours. I say this as a warning, and absolutely not as a recommended plan of action, because once you've accepted the proposal he'll just go back to his usual self and postpone the wedding indefinitely.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:02 AM on May 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
However, that advice rests on the assumption that the relationship is healthy and that both partners want to get married and know what they're heading into. I don't think that this is the case for you, unfortunately.
Other answers have mentioned the fighting being a potential flag, and that the ring doesn't guarantee security ("Forget the ring! The Schwartz is in YOU!"), and I agree. I also suspect that your boyfriend's regular mentions of the ring and emojis (emojis, really?) are hollow. He's dangling the promise of an engagement in front of you because he knows that's what will get you to stay.
I bet you three months' salary he'll keep hemming and hawing on the proposal, but once you decide to leave, he'll have a ring within 24 hours. I say this as a warning, and absolutely not as a recommended plan of action, because once you've accepted the proposal he'll just go back to his usual self and postpone the wedding indefinitely.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:02 AM on May 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
he wouldn't mind having 1 or 2 more but was fine if he didn't
IMO someone who says this maybe shouldn't be having kids, and I'd think there's a good chance that if you do have kids with him, you'll be doing all the work. If that's ok with you, go for it. Beyond that, all the advice you're getting here is great.
posted by Huck500 at 8:03 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
IMO someone who says this maybe shouldn't be having kids, and I'd think there's a good chance that if you do have kids with him, you'll be doing all the work. If that's ok with you, go for it. Beyond that, all the advice you're getting here is great.
posted by Huck500 at 8:03 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
You're confusing the tree (whether or not you get "the ring") for the forest (do NOT marry someone if you can't go more than a few weeks without fighting with them).
posted by MsMolly at 8:04 AM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 8:04 AM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Think about whether you really want to marry him (as opposed to a general desire to be married) and if you do, then just ask him.
(It does sound like he is stringing you along with all this "ring" talk.)
posted by Area Man at 8:05 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
(It does sound like he is stringing you along with all this "ring" talk.)
posted by Area Man at 8:05 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, now he is telling me to just relax that it will happen, he is feeling pressured, he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
Let me save you some time and misery: if you are regularly fighting with your partner and you want kids but don't have kids yet, break up right now. Break up today.
If you think that fighting about things is a natural part of a healthy relationship and that having kids will change that for the better then you have no idea what you're getting into, and you're going to be having these exact same arguments two years from now, except you'll be having them after an entire year of no sleep, less sex and a completely life-altering pile of additional responsibility. He, from the look of it, does know what he's in for and either does not want to do that again or just does not want to do that with you.
posted by mhoye at 8:22 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
Let me save you some time and misery: if you are regularly fighting with your partner and you want kids but don't have kids yet, break up right now. Break up today.
If you think that fighting about things is a natural part of a healthy relationship and that having kids will change that for the better then you have no idea what you're getting into, and you're going to be having these exact same arguments two years from now, except you'll be having them after an entire year of no sleep, less sex and a completely life-altering pile of additional responsibility. He, from the look of it, does know what he's in for and either does not want to do that again or just does not want to do that with you.
posted by mhoye at 8:22 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
To be honest about it, your question reads like something from a 1960s advice column. I mean, seriously -- sitting around wondering when he'll give you a ring? Come on. You're almost 30, you're a homeowner, and this is 2015; this isn't how adults conduct relationships. If you want to know, just ask. You know, as in, "Hey, Tom, we've been talking about marriage for some time now but nothing concrete has happened. What's up? Do you want to get married or no?"
p.s. A ring is not "security."
posted by holborne at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
p.s. A ring is not "security."
posted by holborne at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2015 [31 favorites]
I'm with Rock Steady and anyone else who asks why you want to marry someone who isn't ready. An ultimatum could really end badly. But, whether or not you should move on? I don't know. I was anti-marriage until age 34 and then I suddenly couldn't wait to do it, so I proposed to my boyfriend, who I knew would say yes. If he'd said no, I would have been sad but I would have understood, and I would have stayed with him. We were committed regardless of rings. BTW still no ring here. Not a ring person, so. My humble advice is Don't force it.
posted by little_dog_laughing at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2015
posted by little_dog_laughing at 8:36 AM on May 8, 2015
Is "no fighting for a few months" code for "stop speaking up for yourself"? Just something to consider.
posted by gentian at 8:41 AM on May 8, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by gentian at 8:41 AM on May 8, 2015 [30 favorites]
Also:
He told my Aunt last year he was going to propose last July 4th but his stepbrother purposed to his girl so it messed things up for him (which is complete BS bc he didn't have a ring).
Huh??? His stepbrother proposed to someone else so he couldn't propose to you? I don't even know where to start with this. It's just a bizarre thing to say; it's kind of like saying, "Well, there was a big 50% off everything sale at Urban Outfitters that week so I couldn't propose right then" or something. It's just a completely, total, utter non-sequitur. What does one thing have to do with the other? A proposal isn't a performance or a competition for who can garner the most attention; it's a statement that you want to marry someone.
posted by holborne at 8:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
He told my Aunt last year he was going to propose last July 4th but his stepbrother purposed to his girl so it messed things up for him (which is complete BS bc he didn't have a ring).
Huh??? His stepbrother proposed to someone else so he couldn't propose to you? I don't even know where to start with this. It's just a bizarre thing to say; it's kind of like saying, "Well, there was a big 50% off everything sale at Urban Outfitters that week so I couldn't propose right then" or something. It's just a completely, total, utter non-sequitur. What does one thing have to do with the other? A proposal isn't a performance or a competition for who can garner the most attention; it's a statement that you want to marry someone.
posted by holborne at 8:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
it seems to me like you have decided on all these rules - the proper steps that have to be followed - and you're getting frustrated because he's not sticking to the script. i'm guessing all this ring talk is stand in for "we need to get married by x date so i can start on baby number one by y and number two by z" - and that's a fine thing to plan for! but he has to be planning with you. it doesn't sound like he is. if you have to drag him kicking and screaming into marriage, and then probably into having kids, is that the kind of partner you envisioned for yourself?
i also wonder how much of this ring talk is driven by him versus how much is driven by you and your family. he's either stringing you along or you're not listening to what he's telling you about his commitment level. either way, if you give him an ultimatum he might propose, but i think you should consider if you deserve someone who has to be pushed in that way.
finally, i know everyone dreams of the spouse and the kids and the picket fence, but if you're a home owner with some stability and ability to hire some help, you can get on the baby train all by yourself. you might enjoy breaking up with this guy, getting pregnant, and spending the next few years just being a mom. then you can find a guy, maybe one who has a couple kids, and you can do the whole blended family thing.
posted by nadawi at 8:50 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
i also wonder how much of this ring talk is driven by him versus how much is driven by you and your family. he's either stringing you along or you're not listening to what he's telling you about his commitment level. either way, if you give him an ultimatum he might propose, but i think you should consider if you deserve someone who has to be pushed in that way.
finally, i know everyone dreams of the spouse and the kids and the picket fence, but if you're a home owner with some stability and ability to hire some help, you can get on the baby train all by yourself. you might enjoy breaking up with this guy, getting pregnant, and spending the next few years just being a mom. then you can find a guy, maybe one who has a couple kids, and you can do the whole blended family thing.
posted by nadawi at 8:50 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
So, now he is telling me to just relax that it will happen, he is feeling pressured, he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting?!!?
Do you ever watch reality television? Right now, on a show called Southern Charm, there's a story line where an older guy is saying exactly this to a woman in her early 20s. It is pretty clear on the show that he is jerking her around. It's different from your story in that they have a baby together but I don't know, you might want to have a watch of it.
And yes, you are probably right, a lot of the fighting is likely related to this whole business of him holding out marriage as a sort of carrot. Is he a bit controlling by any chance?
posted by BibiRose at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do you ever watch reality television? Right now, on a show called Southern Charm, there's a story line where an older guy is saying exactly this to a woman in her early 20s. It is pretty clear on the show that he is jerking her around. It's different from your story in that they have a baby together but I don't know, you might want to have a watch of it.
And yes, you are probably right, a lot of the fighting is likely related to this whole business of him holding out marriage as a sort of carrot. Is he a bit controlling by any chance?
posted by BibiRose at 9:02 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
My bf and I have been together for almost 2 years, we have talked about getting married for about year and he still has not asked. Should I be concerned?
I'd just like to say that for some people, dating for 2 years isn't actually that long of a time! I got engaged to my boyfriend in 2013 after 5 years of official dating, but we'd known each other for 9 years by that point!
I guess I understand why he's feeling pressure. You've been together for ALMOST 2 years and started talking about marriage after 1 year of dating????
I think you've escalated this "marriage" thing to the point that you can't think clearly. Everyone in YOUR family is asking him what the hold up is? I just don't get it!
Keep Calm and continue dating.....
posted by JenThePro at 9:22 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'd just like to say that for some people, dating for 2 years isn't actually that long of a time! I got engaged to my boyfriend in 2013 after 5 years of official dating, but we'd known each other for 9 years by that point!
I guess I understand why he's feeling pressure. You've been together for ALMOST 2 years and started talking about marriage after 1 year of dating????
I think you've escalated this "marriage" thing to the point that you can't think clearly. Everyone in YOUR family is asking him what the hold up is? I just don't get it!
Keep Calm and continue dating.....
posted by JenThePro at 9:22 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Questions you should consider: What if he decides not to marry you? Do you want to marry *him* or do you want to *be married*?
If you fight a lot, put some effort into learning to resolve conflict more successfully. This is do-able, and makes life So. Much. Better.
Sweetheart, I'm crazy about you, and I can't imagine life without you. I'd like to make this permanent.
posted by theora55 at 9:24 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you fight a lot, put some effort into learning to resolve conflict more successfully. This is do-able, and makes life So. Much. Better.
Sweetheart, I'm crazy about you, and I can't imagine life without you. I'd like to make this permanent.
posted by theora55 at 9:24 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Give him a reasonable timetable by which you can expect to be engaged.
If he gives you a bunch of reasons why no timetable can be considered reasonable and he has to do things in his own time and he'll know when the time is right because blah blah blah whatever, yeah, you should move on.
If he says "okay, will do" to placate you and fails to take the timetable seriously, you should definitely move on.
If he says something like, he wants to date for at least four years and live together for some of that time before getting engaged, or, he thinks the two of you need to go to counseling to work through your issues first, those would be legit responses and it's up to you whether they're acceptable conditions or not.
Not knowing anything about your boyfriend, it's impossible to say whether making the proposal yourself would be an effective way to take this to the next level or not.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:25 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
If he gives you a bunch of reasons why no timetable can be considered reasonable and he has to do things in his own time and he'll know when the time is right because blah blah blah whatever, yeah, you should move on.
If he says "okay, will do" to placate you and fails to take the timetable seriously, you should definitely move on.
If he says something like, he wants to date for at least four years and live together for some of that time before getting engaged, or, he thinks the two of you need to go to counseling to work through your issues first, those would be legit responses and it's up to you whether they're acceptable conditions or not.
Not knowing anything about your boyfriend, it's impossible to say whether making the proposal yourself would be an effective way to take this to the next level or not.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:25 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
i disagree that you're somehow rushing this - if you want kids you have to prioritize that. you were clear to him from the beginning that it was in the cards. he doesn't seem to be as committed to you or the idea of having a family with you as he needs to be. you still have lots of time to have kids, but if you spend another 2 or 3 years hoping he'll work it out but find out he won't, and then a year or two to get back into the swing of things, then another year or two of dating before marriage - well, you can do the math...
2 years in is a great time to figure out if this guy is in your one year, five year, ten year, forever type plans.
posted by nadawi at 9:26 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
2 years in is a great time to figure out if this guy is in your one year, five year, ten year, forever type plans.
posted by nadawi at 9:26 AM on May 8, 2015 [13 favorites]
I do agree that if you want to marry this guy you should propose to him.
But having said that, it seems like this guy doesn't want to be with you long-term and you don't have a super-solid relationship. I would actually suggest cutting your losses and going to find someone else to have kids with if having kids is important to you. I know you're thinking "but I've already been with this guy for two years!" Have you ever heard the expression "throwing good money after bad" or the idea of sunk cost fallacy? Don't limit yourself to thinking this guy that you bicker with a lot who isn't totally on board on having kids with you is the be-all and end-all of relationships for you. I suspect you can find something deeper and better with a guy who is super right for you.
posted by kate blank at 9:30 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
But having said that, it seems like this guy doesn't want to be with you long-term and you don't have a super-solid relationship. I would actually suggest cutting your losses and going to find someone else to have kids with if having kids is important to you. I know you're thinking "but I've already been with this guy for two years!" Have you ever heard the expression "throwing good money after bad" or the idea of sunk cost fallacy? Don't limit yourself to thinking this guy that you bicker with a lot who isn't totally on board on having kids with you is the be-all and end-all of relationships for you. I suspect you can find something deeper and better with a guy who is super right for you.
posted by kate blank at 9:30 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
You sound like you care more about GETTING married instead of BEING married. You might want to think about that.
And yes, propose to him if you want to marry him, this isn't the 1950's!
posted by biscotti at 9:38 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
And yes, propose to him if you want to marry him, this isn't the 1950's!
posted by biscotti at 9:38 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Every single person I know who has pushed their partner into a committment--be that moving in together, marriage, what have you--has wound up in a totally miserable relationship and an explosive aftermath.
Also, rings do not in and of themselves mean anything. He could give you a ring today, right now, and break it off with you tomorrow. It's not security. What it sounds like is that you have mistaken the symbol for the reality. An engagement ring is nothing more than an outward physical token of an internal, emotional state. It's just a marker and nothing more--like getting a new haircut to celebrate a new job, or something.
The thing is, these 'rules' about what happens when and who proposes to whom are total, complete garbage. They're meaningless. The only thing that matters is the love you share. So, it's time to sit down and have a clear, direct, calm adult discussion.
Describe the situation factually, without judgements or mind reading. "We have discussed marriage many times. I would like to be married to you."
Express your feelings. "Being married to you would make me feel this way and that way. Not being married to you makes me feel this other way."
Assert yourself. Do not discount your feelings. "I really want to be married to you."
Reinforce how being married would work for both of you. Again, be honest--this isn't about manipulating, it's about honest and clear reasons why marriage would be good for both of you.
Be mindful of what you are saying and how.
Don't apologize inappropriately.
And, finally, negotiate--be prepared to set out a timeline of what you both want to happen and when.
I think in the end the reality is, it sounds like, you are connected to the idea of being married, while he is connected to the idea of talking about being married. Frankly, I think the end result of your discussion is likely to be your relationship being over. That's probably best for both of you, long run, as it seems like your goals aren't compatible.
It might be worth teasing apart in your head why/whether it is you feel that relationships must hit certain milestones at certain times. This is why these rules are terrible; relationships cannot follow a laid-in-stone structure because every person is different, and by extension, every relationship is different.
So, really... have the Adult Conversation. That doesn't at all preclude having the big romantic proposal, if the outcome of the conversation is "Fuck yeah, I want to be married to you! Let's get married! I am 100% on board with this and 100% enthusiastic about this!"
And if he's not 100%, it's time to move on and develop relationships with other people until you find someone who is 100%.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:48 AM on May 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
Also, rings do not in and of themselves mean anything. He could give you a ring today, right now, and break it off with you tomorrow. It's not security. What it sounds like is that you have mistaken the symbol for the reality. An engagement ring is nothing more than an outward physical token of an internal, emotional state. It's just a marker and nothing more--like getting a new haircut to celebrate a new job, or something.
The thing is, these 'rules' about what happens when and who proposes to whom are total, complete garbage. They're meaningless. The only thing that matters is the love you share. So, it's time to sit down and have a clear, direct, calm adult discussion.
Describe the situation factually, without judgements or mind reading. "We have discussed marriage many times. I would like to be married to you."
Express your feelings. "Being married to you would make me feel this way and that way. Not being married to you makes me feel this other way."
Assert yourself. Do not discount your feelings. "I really want to be married to you."
Reinforce how being married would work for both of you. Again, be honest--this isn't about manipulating, it's about honest and clear reasons why marriage would be good for both of you.
Be mindful of what you are saying and how.
Don't apologize inappropriately.
And, finally, negotiate--be prepared to set out a timeline of what you both want to happen and when.
I think in the end the reality is, it sounds like, you are connected to the idea of being married, while he is connected to the idea of talking about being married. Frankly, I think the end result of your discussion is likely to be your relationship being over. That's probably best for both of you, long run, as it seems like your goals aren't compatible.
It might be worth teasing apart in your head why/whether it is you feel that relationships must hit certain milestones at certain times. This is why these rules are terrible; relationships cannot follow a laid-in-stone structure because every person is different, and by extension, every relationship is different.
So, really... have the Adult Conversation. That doesn't at all preclude having the big romantic proposal, if the outcome of the conversation is "Fuck yeah, I want to be married to you! Let's get married! I am 100% on board with this and 100% enthusiastic about this!"
And if he's not 100%, it's time to move on and develop relationships with other people until you find someone who is 100%.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:48 AM on May 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
Huh??? His stepbrother proposed to someone else so he couldn't propose to you? I don't even know where to start with this.
In some families or social circles, proposing soon after another proposal is considered to be "stealing the thunder" of the other proposal. It's petty and ridiculous, but I guess some people care about these things.
Anyway, last July was a long time ago. I agree that it's time for a serious conversation. If he perceives this adult talk regarding basic life planning as too much pressure, or starts a fight because he doesn't want to talk about it, OP, I think you know that he's stalling for time. There's a reason for that. He keeps saying he wants to marry you, but his actions tell you the exact opposite. There's a reason for that. He knows why. But he's not being honest with you because he knows that his honest reasons will upset you. There's a pretty obvious inference in there, if you're willing to connect the dots.
posted by keep it under cover at 10:12 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
In some families or social circles, proposing soon after another proposal is considered to be "stealing the thunder" of the other proposal. It's petty and ridiculous, but I guess some people care about these things.
Anyway, last July was a long time ago. I agree that it's time for a serious conversation. If he perceives this adult talk regarding basic life planning as too much pressure, or starts a fight because he doesn't want to talk about it, OP, I think you know that he's stalling for time. There's a reason for that. He keeps saying he wants to marry you, but his actions tell you the exact opposite. There's a reason for that. He knows why. But he's not being honest with you because he knows that his honest reasons will upset you. There's a pretty obvious inference in there, if you're willing to connect the dots.
posted by keep it under cover at 10:12 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: We fight about dumb things. I don't think getting a ring is "security" but to me it just means he's taking the next step, he's put time, thought and money into someone (me) that he see's himself with in the future which is "security" to me. Also, the whole me proposing thing, I could, my mom proposed to my dad but I want to have the experience of him getting down on one knee and proposing. And I agree that 2 years is not that long but at the age of 40, been married, has kids... wouldn't you think at that point if your life you would just know if that someone is right for you or not, especially after two years. Everyone is different and a "mental timeline"... I know what I want.. I want him, I want to get married and I want kids. How do I know if I should move on or hang in there for a little while. Maybe he's going to do it soon? Lastly, no I don't want to get married even though I feel like he is just doing to make everyone happy and to shut them up... I want him to propose because he wants to but bc of me or anyone else.
posted by jk9119 at 10:23 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jk9119 at 10:23 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I want him to propose because he wants to but bc of me or anyone else.
Sounds like you're in a pickle then. You want him to do something without any outside prompting, and you feel like the only way to get it is to prompt him.
The thing is, humans aren't telepathic. He doesn't know what you're thinking unless you've articulated it. I really think you have two choices:
1) Articulate exactly what you are thinking and feeling, or
2) Continue to be frustrated
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Sounds like you're in a pickle then. You want him to do something without any outside prompting, and you feel like the only way to get it is to prompt him.
The thing is, humans aren't telepathic. He doesn't know what you're thinking unless you've articulated it. I really think you have two choices:
1) Articulate exactly what you are thinking and feeling, or
2) Continue to be frustrated
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:32 AM on May 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Maybe he's going to do it soon?
Not sure if this is supposed to be a rhetorical question, but just in case it isn't:
Of course, not a single person here can answer that. But he can, if you actually ask him. Otherwise, it's just going to be you sitting around wondering when he's going to give you a ring, lather rinse repeat. Why would you cede your own agency to someone else like that?
posted by holborne at 10:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not sure if this is supposed to be a rhetorical question, but just in case it isn't:
Of course, not a single person here can answer that. But he can, if you actually ask him. Otherwise, it's just going to be you sitting around wondering when he's going to give you a ring, lather rinse repeat. Why would you cede your own agency to someone else like that?
posted by holborne at 10:37 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
You see the ring as the next step, but it sounds like he sees moving in as the next step, which you are unwilling to do. He has accepted your stance, but it could have delayed his plans to propose. Living together is a very eye-opening experience, especially when someone has been married before & has children. It's not the same as spending 5/6 nights a week together. There's no escape hatch, sometimes you have to coexist uncomfortably, & you quickly figure out what your strengths & weaknesses are as a couple. It also provides better insight into how you will be as a step-parent to his children in a myriad of circumstances. I would imagine if your first marriage is unsuccessful, you are going to be even more cautious about your second trip down the aisle, especially when there are kids in the picture. I would reconsider your stance on moving in for both of your sakes. It will provide the progress and reassurance of his intentions that I think you're seeking, & may actually speed things up a bit. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 10:38 AM on May 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by katemcd at 10:38 AM on May 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
Ignore the flack you're getting for talking about "security" and wanting him to propose. I know what you mean and it's not essentially unreasonable.
Good for you for not moving in with him. In my experience, moving in is kind of the new "getting the cow for free" (not to be crass, but yeah) in that it often benefits the guy (his house, plus easily accessible girlfriend who probably does most chores) more than you.
Completely and totally drop the subject of marriage for five months. Do not talk about it with your family. Do not talk about it with him- don't even talk about other people's marriages. Not a peep.
After five months of silence, if he hasn't brought it up, have a conversation and move on.
2 and 1/2 years is a pretty reasonable timeline IMO.
I think he'll always have an excuse. Not the right time, too much fighting, brother, blah blah blah. If you want to marry someone that stuff should be petty small change. We're talking the rest of your lives.
But give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wants the proposal to be special.
Five months then cut and run.
posted by quincunx at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Good for you for not moving in with him. In my experience, moving in is kind of the new "getting the cow for free" (not to be crass, but yeah) in that it often benefits the guy (his house, plus easily accessible girlfriend who probably does most chores) more than you.
Completely and totally drop the subject of marriage for five months. Do not talk about it with your family. Do not talk about it with him- don't even talk about other people's marriages. Not a peep.
After five months of silence, if he hasn't brought it up, have a conversation and move on.
2 and 1/2 years is a pretty reasonable timeline IMO.
I think he'll always have an excuse. Not the right time, too much fighting, brother, blah blah blah. If you want to marry someone that stuff should be petty small change. We're talking the rest of your lives.
But give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he wants the proposal to be special.
Five months then cut and run.
posted by quincunx at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Living together is a very eye-opening experience, especially when someone has been married before & has children.
Yeah, this is a huge thing. Especially if you've been married before. The realities of living together are, in my view, something that are a really good idea to work out before getting married. You two may work great as people with their own homes to retreat to, and be utterly unable to live together. It's not surprising that he'd want to live together first.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:06 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is a huge thing. Especially if you've been married before. The realities of living together are, in my view, something that are a really good idea to work out before getting married. You two may work great as people with their own homes to retreat to, and be utterly unable to live together. It's not surprising that he'd want to live together first.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:06 AM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
We fight about dumb things.
Yeah well, most of life is made up of the dumb things. If you're fighting about the dumb things, marriage is gonna be a long, cruddy slog for both of you. Time to address those "dumb things" and work on them like adults instead of fighting like children.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:11 AM on May 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Yeah well, most of life is made up of the dumb things. If you're fighting about the dumb things, marriage is gonna be a long, cruddy slog for both of you. Time to address those "dumb things" and work on them like adults instead of fighting like children.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:11 AM on May 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Sorry, I realize that isn't worded like an answer to your question, but it was meant to be. It's not necessarily time to move on but it's definitely time to make a conscious effort in one way or another: either on fixing the problems in your relationship to make it one that's actually good for a marriage, or on finding someone else.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:13 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:13 AM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Move on and don't look back!
It is 100% ok to want what you want (I'm pretty similar), your timeline at your age is not unrealistic, and I get the sense that it is not the physical "ring" you view as security, but the context surrounding it, the idea that the guy has decided to dedicate himself to you and yous alls life together, which is perfectly sensible to want from someone you want to marry. This guys sounds like he's just not on the same page with you. Since he's already experienced the marriage and kids goodies of life, it's probably not even you that's the issue for him, but whatever it is you gotta look out for #1 (that's you hun) and dump this load so you can go get what you want.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
It is 100% ok to want what you want (I'm pretty similar), your timeline at your age is not unrealistic, and I get the sense that it is not the physical "ring" you view as security, but the context surrounding it, the idea that the guy has decided to dedicate himself to you and yous alls life together, which is perfectly sensible to want from someone you want to marry. This guys sounds like he's just not on the same page with you. Since he's already experienced the marriage and kids goodies of life, it's probably not even you that's the issue for him, but whatever it is you gotta look out for #1 (that's you hun) and dump this load so you can go get what you want.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:43 AM on May 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
And I agree that 2 years is not that long but at the age of 40, been married, has kids... wouldn't you think at that point if your life you would just know if that someone is right for you or not, especially after two years.
Nope, just the opposite. I am 40 and divorced and I would be extremely cautious before getting married again since the first time didn't go so well (understatement). If you don't want to wait, then you don't want to wait, but I don't blame him for not jumping into another marriage when you guys fight all the time. Especially if it's about dumb things - what happens when important things come up?
You don't sound all that compatible to be honest and that may be where he is coming from. I don't think it's fair to string you along indefinitely so I'd have a really honest conversation (if you don't want to flat out propose) and see if he's gunshy in general because he's divorced or if it's you guys specifically.
posted by desjardins at 11:54 AM on May 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nope, just the opposite. I am 40 and divorced and I would be extremely cautious before getting married again since the first time didn't go so well (understatement). If you don't want to wait, then you don't want to wait, but I don't blame him for not jumping into another marriage when you guys fight all the time. Especially if it's about dumb things - what happens when important things come up?
You don't sound all that compatible to be honest and that may be where he is coming from. I don't think it's fair to string you along indefinitely so I'd have a really honest conversation (if you don't want to flat out propose) and see if he's gunshy in general because he's divorced or if it's you guys specifically.
posted by desjardins at 11:54 AM on May 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
For someone who fundamentally wants to get married, your timeline is not unrealistic. If you're spending 5/6 of your time at his house, a marriage inclined guy will know if he wants to wed you or not by the 1 year mark. You are now at 2 years.
It seems likely that he simply doesn't want to get married, but also really likes and doesn't want to lose you, so he is stalling and hoping it blows over. You may even be able to pressure him into marriage, whether by proposal or nagging, but this is not the guy who's going to give you what you want, especially if you want a "real proposal" and kids and him being into it.
posted by corb at 11:58 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
It seems likely that he simply doesn't want to get married, but also really likes and doesn't want to lose you, so he is stalling and hoping it blows over. You may even be able to pressure him into marriage, whether by proposal or nagging, but this is not the guy who's going to give you what you want, especially if you want a "real proposal" and kids and him being into it.
posted by corb at 11:58 AM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
He doesn't want to get married, or you would be getting married. He doesn't want more kids, or he'd be working on more kids with you.
He also isn't able to be honest about this with you because he doesn't want you to leave. Which you can see as sweet but it's really not, it's dishonest. It's unfair to string another person along this way.
Maybe you think that you can't do better. No way to know if you don't try. But you deserve better than half-promises, vague futures, and dishonest responses from someone who is happy to have their needs fulfilled by you but doesn't care enough to take your needs for your life (marriage, kids) seriously.
The real question is, are you willing to give up your unsatisfying relationship and take the risk of finding a better one, or will you stay and keep fighting/feeling unsatisfied because it's too scary and hard to leave?
Only you can know for sure.
posted by emjaybee at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
He also isn't able to be honest about this with you because he doesn't want you to leave. Which you can see as sweet but it's really not, it's dishonest. It's unfair to string another person along this way.
Maybe you think that you can't do better. No way to know if you don't try. But you deserve better than half-promises, vague futures, and dishonest responses from someone who is happy to have their needs fulfilled by you but doesn't care enough to take your needs for your life (marriage, kids) seriously.
The real question is, are you willing to give up your unsatisfying relationship and take the risk of finding a better one, or will you stay and keep fighting/feeling unsatisfied because it's too scary and hard to leave?
Only you can know for sure.
posted by emjaybee at 12:40 PM on May 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
We fight about dumb things.
Getting engaged will not change this. Frankly, why would you want to spend your life with someone who fights with you over dumb things?
wouldn't you think at that point if your life you would just know if that someone is right for you or not, especially after two years
NO. When you've been through one failed marriage, you're not in a hurry to get married again.
I want him to propose because he wants to .
Tough love here: he doesn't want to. That's why he hasn't. And if somehow he's pressured into doing it, he still doesn't want to get married. I know this is hard. But the reality is in front of you. He's given you a lot of excuses about not getting married. He hasn't proposed. There's no ring.
I suggest you talk to him once and if he doesn't want to get married, then walk. If you receive any response other than an enthusiastic, "Of course I want to get married! Let's do it now!" then he's telling you that he doesn't want to get married. Any variation that he needs time, that he hasn't picked the perfect ring, that things are great as they are, that he moves slowly, whatever...he's telling you that he doesn't want to marry you, period.
I also think giving him a timeline is a really bad idea. He's gonna go along with it just to see if you stick around and ideally change your mind. Ultimatums and expiration dates NEVER work.
posted by kinetic at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Getting engaged will not change this. Frankly, why would you want to spend your life with someone who fights with you over dumb things?
wouldn't you think at that point if your life you would just know if that someone is right for you or not, especially after two years
NO. When you've been through one failed marriage, you're not in a hurry to get married again.
I want him to propose because he wants to .
Tough love here: he doesn't want to. That's why he hasn't. And if somehow he's pressured into doing it, he still doesn't want to get married. I know this is hard. But the reality is in front of you. He's given you a lot of excuses about not getting married. He hasn't proposed. There's no ring.
I suggest you talk to him once and if he doesn't want to get married, then walk. If you receive any response other than an enthusiastic, "Of course I want to get married! Let's do it now!" then he's telling you that he doesn't want to get married. Any variation that he needs time, that he hasn't picked the perfect ring, that things are great as they are, that he moves slowly, whatever...he's telling you that he doesn't want to marry you, period.
I also think giving him a timeline is a really bad idea. He's gonna go along with it just to see if you stick around and ideally change your mind. Ultimatums and expiration dates NEVER work.
posted by kinetic at 1:42 PM on May 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
I was in a similar situation (with my boyfriend for four years, ready to get married, had had a lot of conversations about getting married and then nothing happened. we did/do live together though).
It sucked because either way one of us was going to get stuck with the other person's timeline. But you know, I think it was good too because I learned that compromise isn't always "meet me in the middle." Sometimes it's: you get your way on this & I'll get my way on something else.
Here's what I did that helped:
I told him how I felt and I asked him for a general timeline, which he was willing to give me. If he hadn't been, I would have walked (I didn't issue an ultimatum, that's just how I felt).
I talked to my sister/other women that I trusted who also like my partner. I could count on them to hear how I felt but also not just be like "what a douche!" about my partner.
I did a lot of thinking about how this wasn't really in my control and I had to decide if I was happy with things as they were, right then, because that was all I was guaranteed to get.
Best of luck; take care of yourself.
posted by CMcG at 5:17 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sucked because either way one of us was going to get stuck with the other person's timeline. But you know, I think it was good too because I learned that compromise isn't always "meet me in the middle." Sometimes it's: you get your way on this & I'll get my way on something else.
Here's what I did that helped:
I told him how I felt and I asked him for a general timeline, which he was willing to give me. If he hadn't been, I would have walked (I didn't issue an ultimatum, that's just how I felt).
I talked to my sister/other women that I trusted who also like my partner. I could count on them to hear how I felt but also not just be like "what a douche!" about my partner.
I did a lot of thinking about how this wasn't really in my control and I had to decide if I was happy with things as they were, right then, because that was all I was guaranteed to get.
Best of luck; take care of yourself.
posted by CMcG at 5:17 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this will help, but I've written before about how and why I waited for someone who took a long time to commit (many years longer than your guy).
In our case there was a happy ending and we've been contentedly married for a couple of years, but it was not always easy on the way there.
posted by shattersock at 5:31 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
In our case there was a happy ending and we've been contentedly married for a couple of years, but it was not always easy on the way there.
posted by shattersock at 5:31 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
You see the ring as the next step, but it sounds like he sees moving in as the next step, which you are unwilling to do.
This, all the way. The simple reality is, you're the one refusing to add further commitment to the relationship, not him. If your cultural values make this an all or nothing situation for you, that's your call to make, but that doesn't change the fact that you're rejecting his active invitation to invest further in the relationship.
posted by threeants at 6:43 PM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
This, all the way. The simple reality is, you're the one refusing to add further commitment to the relationship, not him. If your cultural values make this an all or nothing situation for you, that's your call to make, but that doesn't change the fact that you're rejecting his active invitation to invest further in the relationship.
posted by threeants at 6:43 PM on May 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
He's not going to ask. It's time to divest. Time to find the guy who won't drag his feet. This dude has issues about marital level commitment. Bye Felipe him.
posted by discopolo at 7:22 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by discopolo at 7:22 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
he is waiting until we have a couple good months of not fighting
He's already told you the answer to your question about whether he's going to propose. The answer is no, until you have a couple months of not fighting. So I would focus on that. Would you guys be up for couples' therapy to work on the fighting?
posted by sunflower16 at 7:51 PM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's already told you the answer to your question about whether he's going to propose. The answer is no, until you have a couple months of not fighting. So I would focus on that. Would you guys be up for couples' therapy to work on the fighting?
posted by sunflower16 at 7:51 PM on May 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
My partner and I have been together for a few years and know we're going to get married, and have decided at some point we're going to propose to each other. When the time comes, we'll say "let's propose three weeks from now" and we'll each have a few weeks to prepare something special for the other person.
Could you do something similar? I know it's unconventional, but if you said "hey, we've talked about marriage a lot. Let's take the next step. A month from now, I'm going to prepare a fantastic afternoon for you and ask you to marry me. If you want to do anything special for me, that's the time. If you need to talk about it first, now's the time."
You don't need to do it that way, but you clearly need to just have an honest conversation with him.
posted by twirlypen at 10:22 PM on May 8, 2015
Could you do something similar? I know it's unconventional, but if you said "hey, we've talked about marriage a lot. Let's take the next step. A month from now, I'm going to prepare a fantastic afternoon for you and ask you to marry me. If you want to do anything special for me, that's the time. If you need to talk about it first, now's the time."
You don't need to do it that way, but you clearly need to just have an honest conversation with him.
posted by twirlypen at 10:22 PM on May 8, 2015
Why are you leaving the decision of a future life together in his hands? You shouldn't be fixated on him proposing, or on him buying an engagement ring, etc.
I think you should just ask your man to marry you, and you'll have your answer.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:26 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you should just ask your man to marry you, and you'll have your answer.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:26 PM on May 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
jk9119,
Read each reply twice. Look at the ones that have been "favourited" the most. This should give you an indication of what to do.
Also,
I want to have the experience of him getting down on one knee and proposing.
You may have to compromise on this one.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:22 AM on May 9, 2015
Read each reply twice. Look at the ones that have been "favourited" the most. This should give you an indication of what to do.
Also,
I want to have the experience of him getting down on one knee and proposing.
You may have to compromise on this one.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:22 AM on May 9, 2015
This sounds very similar to my last long-term relationship before I met my husband. It was two years in, we were crazy about each other (we were a few months apart in age, from age 28 to 30 or so), we had talked about getting married a lot--his mother referred to me as her daughter in law. Sleeping together at his place 5 or 6 nights a week.
As I began bringing up the topic more, he began withdrawing more, and trying to sidestep the issue. What it came down to was that he wanted to move in together (or that's what he was "offering" me--it didn't even seem like he was that into that idea), and I wanted to at least be engaged before I lost the independence of my own apartment in an expensive city.
Year later he would admit that he was just not ready for the commitment, I was, and he didn't want to let me go. It was a painful breakup--he asked me to go to therapy with him several times to see if we could work it out. It turned into this long stupid argument about whether we were going to get engaged or move in together until finally I was just totally done with him. He just wanted me to stay being his girlfriend (he really did love me!) and I was ready for marriage, kids, the works.
I broke up with him, I met my husband the next year, got married the following year, pregnant the next year, etc. Now we've been married for 8 years, 2 kids, happy.
Ex-boyfriend who found it hard to commit started dating another woman in his mid-30s, dated her for at least 3 years (I think they lived together for part of it) Finally proposed, got married the following year. He was almost 40 when he got married. Which is fine. Maybe he just didn't have the self-awareness at age 30 to be straight with me.
I'm telling you what I think you already know--you are ready, he is not. Despite your age difference. This makes you incompatible no matter how much you love each other. Cut him loose. Clean break--no "friends." Wait a few weeks or a month and start dating again. Look for someone who is really crazy about you, grounded, honest and straightforward. :-)
posted by tk at 9:31 AM on May 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
As I began bringing up the topic more, he began withdrawing more, and trying to sidestep the issue. What it came down to was that he wanted to move in together (or that's what he was "offering" me--it didn't even seem like he was that into that idea), and I wanted to at least be engaged before I lost the independence of my own apartment in an expensive city.
Year later he would admit that he was just not ready for the commitment, I was, and he didn't want to let me go. It was a painful breakup--he asked me to go to therapy with him several times to see if we could work it out. It turned into this long stupid argument about whether we were going to get engaged or move in together until finally I was just totally done with him. He just wanted me to stay being his girlfriend (he really did love me!) and I was ready for marriage, kids, the works.
I broke up with him, I met my husband the next year, got married the following year, pregnant the next year, etc. Now we've been married for 8 years, 2 kids, happy.
Ex-boyfriend who found it hard to commit started dating another woman in his mid-30s, dated her for at least 3 years (I think they lived together for part of it) Finally proposed, got married the following year. He was almost 40 when he got married. Which is fine. Maybe he just didn't have the self-awareness at age 30 to be straight with me.
I'm telling you what I think you already know--you are ready, he is not. Despite your age difference. This makes you incompatible no matter how much you love each other. Cut him loose. Clean break--no "friends." Wait a few weeks or a month and start dating again. Look for someone who is really crazy about you, grounded, honest and straightforward. :-)
posted by tk at 9:31 AM on May 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
In some families or social circles, proposing soon after another proposal is considered to be "stealing the thunder" of the other proposal. It's petty and ridiculous, but I guess some people care about these things.
In many ways, I guess, the way other people live is simply beyond my ken, but that one strikes me as exceptionally bizarre.
In any event as the OP notes, it was a bullshit excuse anyway; I think we can all agree that ten months (from early July until now) is plenty of buffer time, and if the boyfriend really had any intention of proposing, he'd have done it by now. He didn't, so he hasn't.
posted by holborne at 12:00 PM on May 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
In many ways, I guess, the way other people live is simply beyond my ken, but that one strikes me as exceptionally bizarre.
In any event as the OP notes, it was a bullshit excuse anyway; I think we can all agree that ten months (from early July until now) is plenty of buffer time, and if the boyfriend really had any intention of proposing, he'd have done it by now. He didn't, so he hasn't.
posted by holborne at 12:00 PM on May 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I should've mentioned that I have personal experience with the cycle of fighting because of the engagement issue thing. Feel free to PM me if it would be helpful.
posted by sunflower16 at 12:14 PM on May 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sunflower16 at 12:14 PM on May 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Two years in a relationship is an eternity to me, and back in the day I've broken up with guys at that point in our otherwise fine and dandy relationships because I decided that's too long to be with someone when we did not have a future together (and I've been happily married for over 10 years now, and had 2 kids in my early 30s so I stand by my own personal "don't date the same guy for more than 2 years" guideline). Based on the stuff he's been telling you -- and folks like your Aunt as well -- (i.e. "I want you to be my wife," "let's do this.", and texting you ring emojis, etc) I think you're 100% reasonable and correct to expect him to have given you an engagement ring and a kickass down-on-one-knee-style proposal by your two-year mark. I totally get what you mean by wanting "security" and I think you are super smart for not moving in together until you at the very least have a marriage commitment (ring on your finger) and a firm wedding date that he's telling his whole family about. (BTW, that's awesome you own your own home at such a young age. Go you!).
So what gives on his end? He has hesitations about your long-term compatibility, as sunflower16's comment nailed it: "He's already told you the answer to your question about whether he's going to propose. The answer is no, until you have a couple months of not fighting. So I would focus on that." Agreed. And I think the answer to you both fighting less is for you to spend a whole lot less time together, and be a lot less available to him. Five to six nights a week is waaay too many to be giving him without more of a commitment. (Married people should not even be spending that much time in each others' faces IMHO!) Make that three nights a week, tops. Go live your own life more, and get some cool hobbies. He'll propose soon enough, then you'll be raising his kids and having one of your own in a few years and you'll regret not capitalizing more on all of this time you have right now to be footloose and fancy free. Relax!
posted by hush at 6:38 PM on May 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
So what gives on his end? He has hesitations about your long-term compatibility, as sunflower16's comment nailed it: "He's already told you the answer to your question about whether he's going to propose. The answer is no, until you have a couple months of not fighting. So I would focus on that." Agreed. And I think the answer to you both fighting less is for you to spend a whole lot less time together, and be a lot less available to him. Five to six nights a week is waaay too many to be giving him without more of a commitment. (Married people should not even be spending that much time in each others' faces IMHO!) Make that three nights a week, tops. Go live your own life more, and get some cool hobbies. He'll propose soon enough, then you'll be raising his kids and having one of your own in a few years and you'll regret not capitalizing more on all of this time you have right now to be footloose and fancy free. Relax!
posted by hush at 6:38 PM on May 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by desjardins at 7:35 AM on May 8, 2015 [70 favorites]