Comments on: Should I narc on my upstairs neighbor for their contraband dog?

Question: Should I narc on my upstairs neighbor for their contraband dog?

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:26:22 -0800

Should I narc on my upstairs neighbor for their contraband dog?

I love dogs and I wouldn't normally begrudge anyone the right to canine companionship, but:
unless they are being extremely sneaky, this dog has not been outside of the apartment since it arrived months ago, due probably to the fact that upstairs dogs are in violation of the lease terms, the property manager lives on site, and they don't want to get busted. Furthermore, it spends most of its time locked outside on the balcony. I can tell this because, as most of you downstairs apartment dwellers know, in time you can interpret neighbors' activities with startling accuracy based on the night's assortment of clunking, banging, and shitty techno music. Also, the dog spends a good deal of time whining and clawing at the glass door, even when I know they're home. If it gets really frustrated, it'll start incessantly barking. Their reaction to this, I kid you not, is usually to vacuum.

This recent thread about dogs as pack animals the psychological effects of their separation really started me thinking that maybe I should tell the management. I know the dog could do better, but I think in this situation if I say anything it'll probably do a lot worse.

This place is the cheapest living for many miles, and I don't think they would or could accept an eviction and move someplace that better suits their pooch. I asked the landlady about a downstairs apartment availability for "a friend" and she says it won't be a possibility for the foreseeable future, so there's no chance of a move across the lot where they could bring it out of hiding. So, if I tell, like the rotten stool pigeon I am, the dog will almost certainly go back to the pound, assuming they don't just leave it somewhere to fend. I'm not saying they would, I don't really know anything about them that I can't tell from clunking noises. They're good enough neighbors apart from this issue.

Further complication: they have a small child whom is probably pretty attached to the dog, and I don't want to be the bad man who took Sparky.

I can deal with the noise, no sweat. Honestly, it's nice to have a little leverage against the neighbors to ward off complaints about my periodic indiscretions w/r/t the decibel policy. I just want to do the least harm, and I'm starting to wonder if allowing them to continue their negligent ownership of this dog is in line with that. What do you think? To tell, or not to tell? I considered a note pinned to the door or something but they would know the source and I'm not sure if I can phrase things in a way that won't get me in some pointless and time consuming feud. Feel free to advocate for either path or any other option I missed, and thanks to all the helpful AskMe readers and responders.

By: matkline

matkline — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:35:29 -0800

I say that there are 4 parties involved here. You, them, the dog, and the landlord. From what you've said, telling the landlord helps three of these parties. You won't have to listen to the dog anymore, the dog will hopefully get a new home with more space and the landlord will be able to enforce the rules of the apartment building. Do it.

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:43:23 -0800

It is just fucked up to keep a dog indoors and locked up all the time. Call the landlord. The kid will get over it, the people who pay the rent obviously don't give a shit about the dog, and the dog will (hopefully) find people who are more caring and responsible.

By: MrZero

MrZero — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:44:31 -0800

Or, the dog goes back to the pound and is eventually put to sleep.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:46:03 -0800

the dog will hopefully get a new home with more space

... but it almost certainly won't. Is a trip to a cage in the pound any better than its current cramped confines? I don't know how young or attractive a dog it is, and losing its home now could be a death sentence. Also, I'd rather people ignore the sound issue as it affects me, like I said it's not a major concern and part of the reason I'm asking for others' input is so I don't inadvertently color my decision in what I consider to be an important issue because of my trivial annoyance. I have plenty of records and, god knows, vacuuming to do, if I can't handle a little noise.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:46:14 -0800

i think you should mind your own business ... if it's not disturbing you, then it's between them and the landlord ... and the whole idea of having something to hold over them if they want to complain about your activities strikes me as tacky

by the way, if he's locked out on the balcony for a good part of the time, why wouldn't the landlord notice it? ... for all you know, they've already discussed it

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:48:05 -0800

What's the expression?

"Let sleeping dogs lie" -- ?

Unless there is a real and concrete problem, don't police the world. It's tough enough keeping your corner of it in order.

Frankly, some of your complaints sound like you're looking for justification, more than airing a legitimate complaint -- but I don't know. Hard to tell from a few lines. You could be perfectly warranted. In short: no one would fault you for complaining for genuine causes, but please endeavor to make sure that's what you're doing.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:50:52 -0800

Yes, a dog that lives in an apartment is not ideal. But hell, neither is a poor family who has 3 kids. Just because it's not ideal doesn't mean it's negligent. I've known people who keep their dogs locked outside in a small enclosed space for most of the day, and the dogs aren't being neglected. They are let inside every day, they get fed, they get attention and love, they get walked, and blahblabalbalblah everything else that dogs need to survive and thrive without having a bigass backyard. Unless you have video surveillance of your neighbor's apartment, you really don't know that the dog isn't getting outside. And if it's a really little dog, it may not feel as stir crazy as you think.

Unless you have video surveillance of their apartment for several days in a row, you really don't know if they are taking the dog out or not. They could be sneaking the dog in and out at times when you are not there. If this is the big issue (that being an inside dog is a cruel and inexcusable fate), then don't tell, because you really don't know.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:53:28 -0800

you really don't know that the dog isn't getting outside
I and my other neighbors have never seen it in the months it's been here. I'm starting to think it may be a recording, which would simplify things. But you're right, video surveillance is probably the best idea at this stage.

By: cribcage

cribcage — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:57:02 -0800

I'd tattle, because the noise would bug the hell out of me. But since you claim it doesn't bother you, then the way they treat their dog, absent blatant negligence or danger, really isn't any of your business. Stay out of it.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:59:16 -0800

i think you should mind your own business ... if it's not disturbing you, then it's between them and the landlord ...

. . . and oh yeah, an innocent dog. I agree with p.t. that having something to "hold over them" is tacky as hell, but still: do what's in the dog's best interest. It's pretty clear they don't care about it, at least from your description.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:00:08 -0800

and the whole idea of having something to hold over them if they want to complain about your activities strikes me as tacky

I find your abuse of ellipses tacky, but maybe in time we can be friends. I'm not 'holding anything over them', if so I would give them some terms. They're just in all actuality less likely to complain, which I consider a benefit. Go critique my character about it.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:03:27 -0800

By: words1

words1 — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:09:44 -0800

I wouldn't rat them out, but you might consider approaching them with a "dog sharing" proposal whereby it would be "your" dog "visiting" them much of the time, perhaps even being walked by them, etc., the point being to neutralize their paranoia about being seen with it.

I'm probably being idealistc, but it's worth a shot if you really care about the dog and the kid.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:12:39 -0800

But you're right, video surveillance is probably the best idea at this stage.

Well, it's a good idea for getting irrefutable proof that the dog doesn't leave their apartment. But unless there's some serious suspected Gacy-type shit going down, I don't think it's a particularly good idea to be filming your neighbors.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:12:42 -0800

Thanks, words1. I was hoping someone would suggest an unobtrusive way to approach them myself. That's really a great idea and I think I'll give it a shot.

By: timeistight

timeistight — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:17:20 -0800

Yes, a dog that lives in an apartment is not ideal.

Jesus, I wish people would get over this. My apartment-dwelling Lab has a better life than ninety-nine percent of the suburban backyard dogs on this continent.

If a place is big enough for you, it's big enough for a dog, as long as you take it with you when you go out. Canines live in holes in the ground in the wild; they don't require that much room.

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:18:33 -0800

Unless there is a real and concrete problem, don't police the world. It's tough enough keeping your corner of it in order.

This is the apartment above him. It is his corner of the world.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:22:53 -0800

timeistight, you should have saved that for my next question about your lab and where wild dogs live! It would have been perfect!

By: fshgrl

fshgrl — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:24:29 -0800

If it's the cheapest place for miles around maybe they have no choice but to live there and they could be smuggling the dog in and out in a bag easily enough if it's small (works in hotels!). I wouldn't rat on them- you never know, they might really love that dog and they're doing what they have to to keep it together.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:30:16 -0800

I hadn't considered the smuggling angle. This could foil my video evidence.

The price of the place I think is a consideration. If I was kicked out with dog I don't know where I could go in the same area and price bracket. All the more reason that they would probably give it up to the pound and narcing probably was not the best idea. Thanks again askme. I've got a good script for word1's idea developing, but if you have any other gems, go for it.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:31:40 -0800

Sorry, words1.

By: symphonik

symphonik — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:47:27 -0800

I am under the impression that you might care a little bit about the kid, but your main guilt trip about calling the landlord is the dog and potentially sending him to his death at the pound.

It's okay, dogs are cuter anyhow.

I'm really sorry for posting such an awful web page, but it does serve a purpose: here's a list of no-kill shelters for a variety of states.

Apartment life is no good for a dog, especially in the hands of owners who obviously don't really care about him. Sticking him on the porch and vacuuming when he's in need come on?

Save your sanity. Save the dog. The kid will grow up just fine.

By: LarryC

LarryC — Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:19:05 -0800

It might be worth having a talk with someone who works at a shelter locally to see what this animals probable fate might be. Is there a realistic chance of the animal finding a better home, or is two weeks in a cage and off to the gas chamber? The answer might have a big impact on your decision.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even if you don't do anything, they are going to get busted sooner or later.

By: moift

moift — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 03:50:36 -0800

And lest you think I haven't taken your criticism seriously, I promise I'll try not to moderate anymore threads I created that are only really of any manifest importance to me, and if there's any life left in this one: everyone, please, I'm sorry, regale me with your tangentially topical stories about other dogs and my shortcomings as a person and the ethics of apartment dog ownership and what flag option you would like and really anything else you think I should read for whatever reason you think it's worth reading.

By: biscotti

biscotti — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:38:04 -0800

Is a trip to a cage in the pound any better than its current cramped confines?

Probably. At least it will get regular exercise and proper human interaction, even if it gets put to sleep in the end (FAR from the worst fate an animal can have, not least because they don't anticipate or understand death the way we do). Better than being shut out on a balcony with no exercise day in and day out.

There is NOTHING WRONG with keeping a dog in an apartment, the issue is whether or not the dog gets properly cared for (i.e. daily exercise, human interaction, decent food, training, proper shelter, etc.), it makes no difference what size your home is as long as you manage the dog appropriately.

I agree that you should make absoutely certain that your suspicions are correct before you take any action. Assuming you are right about how this dog is being treated, if you aren't prepared to do the dog sharing thing, my first call would be to the local SPCA or Humane Society and ask them what to do. Only then would I contact the building manager if you don't get any assistance. It IS your business, this dog is not being properly cared for and is also creating a disturbance. I don't give a shit how attached to it the kid might be, the kid's parents are treating a living creature like furniture (assuming your descriptions are accurate), and the living creature's fundamental physical and mental wellbeing takes precedence over the kid's feelings. Sorry, harsh, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who take on the responsibility for an animal (which obviously has no say in the matter) and then shirk that responsibility, a dog is not a necessity of life to a human, but proper care and management ARE necessities of life to a dog. Thank you for caring about this dog, just please make sure you're right about what's going on here before you do anything, I'd hate to see someone who actually IS being a responsible owner get burned.

By: timeistight

timeistight — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:06:25 -0800

timeistight, you should have saved that for my next question about your lab and where wild dogs live! It would have been perfect!

Well then I saved you question.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps badly, is that size and type of your neighbour's home has nothing to do with the question of whether the dog is neglected.

Anyway, as usual, biscotti has said everything said everything I'd like to say better than I have.

By: jkaczor

jkaczor — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:42:48 -0800

> it spends most of its time locked outside on the balcony.

This is a harsh question - but, if they don't walk it - where does it do all of it's 'business'? On the balcony? I sure hope it is not wood, as the acidity in dog pee can quickly rot right through.

Yes, I've had it happen to me, my deck by my dog - not renting. We trained him to go on white fluffy 'puppy pads' and when he got old enough, we would let him out to do his thing - well, winter hit, snow is white and he couldn't be bother to climb down the stairs.

Long story short, I had to replace the deck in the spring, as I did not want my small children falling through the rotted boards.

By: 912 Greens

912 Greens — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:25:23 -0800

Another thing you might want to consider is that dogs that are mistreated can develop some pretty serious behavioral problems. If the dog got aggressive, for example, it could pose a danger to other people. This is assuming it gets to leave the balcony someday.