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April 30, 2015 6:12 AM

I work for a company that, I feel, is inflexible in regards to work off requests. I'm looking for some outside perspective about what's reasonable to expect in a corporate environment and how to cope with those expectations.

For about 7 months I've worked from home for an online retailer, 5 days per week, 5 hours per day, mid-afternoon to mid-evening. In that time I've taken 2 days off (not including major holidays). I don't get PTO.

We are supposed to make days off requests at least 2 weeks in advance. In March I requested a Friday off 3 weeks in advance and was denied. In April I requested another Friday off 2 weeks in advance and was denied again.

I have asked my manager if it's possible for me to, instead, work my 5 hours earlier in the day. He said that's not an option. Apparently the only option is to trade a day with someone else on my team (although most of them work 8 hours a day so I'm not sure how that would work).

I'm starting to ask myself how I'm supposed to make plans outside of work if I have so little certainty that I'll get days off? Even within their parameters of giving them two weeks notice there's really no guarantee. Perhaps I sound naive but this is certainly the most "corporate" job I've ever had--every other job I've had since I started working has been pretty accommodating and flexible, within reason. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky.

I need some perspective, though, as to if this is reasonable, the way it's done, and how to cope if so. I'm starting to feel resentful because I've missed out on some personal and professional opportunities due to this. I guess everyone does! I'm certainly not a special snowflake and I know what I signed up for. But any thoughts or insights into this kind of culture and/or how I can make it work for me would be greatly appreciated.

posted by girlmightlive to Work & Money (17 answers total)

Working part-time from home for an online retailer sounds like you work for a corporation, but not in a typical 'corporate environment.'

Apparently the only option is to trade a day with someone else on my team (although most of them work 8 hours a day so I'm not sure how that would work).

Have you asked your boss how that could work, given that your coworkers are all full-time? He might be brushing you off because he doesn't have a good idea, but I'd press for a little more help finding a solution. If that didn't get me anywhere, I'd be looking for another job.
posted by jon1270 at 6:21 AM on April 30, 2015

Have you spoken to your boss about this or have you asked why the requests were originally denied? Ask them what the procedure is for when you need a day off and bring the denied requests up as examples. Simply ask what is the procedure when you need time off - it doesn't need to be confrontational (nor should it be), but try to understand what is boss is doing or how they want you to do it. Get it via email if possible so if this should come up again, you can simply forward it and say "this is what you had instructed to do last time this issue came up but it still appears to be an issue, how can I get these days off"?

It could be something as simple as the two days you took off, others on your team took off as well and you were just the last to get in or for some reason, your boss felt they need a full staff. Experience wise - I've very rarely been denied any days off, mostly when I was the last one to get my PTO in on a busy weekend.
posted by lpcxa0 at 6:23 AM on April 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

This sort of thing sounds fairly typical in a retail environment (and NOT a "corporate" environment), where the management style tends more toward inflexibility (I'm sure they have their reasons).

I've worked in corporate environments for over half of my life and I've never been told "no" if I needed a day off and had the accumulated days off to use.

I'd look for work elsewhere.
posted by PsuDab93 at 6:24 AM on April 30, 2015 [7 favorites]

Given you are not in the medical profession or other such profession that requires a substitute, they are not being reasonable by not permitting your time off. Since you can't possibly find a replacement given your offset hours, they need to be more reasonable or expect you to walk. I suggest that you present them with the following scenario: "I have provided notice of PTO I am required to take but have been denied. This does not work for me in the long-term. I will need to have PTO in the future or will be required to leave. I am happy to work as long as you need to find my replacement and in the meantime will take PTO as needed, of course providing you with 2 weeks notice that you require. I enjoy working for you and want make the transition for my replacement as seamless as possible, and I am happy to work here as long as you find my work of value."

In the meantime you look for another job, but...

I did this when I came to the realization I wanted to work part-time because my job is very stressful and I work with a lot of difficult people. My my mega-corporation has always rejected when asked by other employees (or so I've heard). I told them I needed to leave but I want to stay until my replacement was hired and I was no longer needed. I told them I would go part-time for as long as needed (I told, not asked) if that would be helpful. I'm still part-time over a year later with pro-rated benefits. I think the approach of "hey, I want to be of use and as long as you find my work useful, I will stay" makes them see you as an asset rather than someone who doesn't live up to their expectations, which appear to be unrealistic.
posted by waving at 6:29 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: If it matters, my direct manager is not the one who approves schedule changes, that's done by a different division of the company, and I'm not sure what say he has in their process. From what I can tell, he doesn't have much.

(Also, I was using the word coporate somewhat colloquially.)

Thanks for the suggestions so far! Looking forward to reading more.
posted by girlmightlive at 6:31 AM on April 30, 2015

Whether or not it's typical/reasonable/okay is kind of beside the point. There's nothing illegal or inherently wrong about your employer turning down a time-off request for a part-time employee with no PTO. Full-time salaried employees are typically given more leeway in corporate environments since they can always "make up the time" some other way. But since you're only working part-time and you don't have any PTO in your contract/employee agreement, your request to change your schedule is pretty low-priority. So I think your boss is correct, your best bet is to swap a day with someone else, that way your employer won't even know the difference. (I'm not sure how that works with your 5 hours, but you may have to work that out.)

Aside from that, there's nothing you can do except find another job that better meets your needs for flexible time off. Sounds like this job isn't it.
posted by deathpanels at 6:38 AM on April 30, 2015 [5 favorites]

I think this is fairly normal for a retail job, and it's why people don't like working retail and why there's such high turnover in those jobs.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:45 AM on April 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

You could start looking for events or social gatherings that happen earlier in the day. meetings for breakfast, brunch, early morning meetups, etc..
posted by Ideefixe at 7:05 AM on April 30, 2015

I mean, to be very frank, the way you're supposed to make plans outside of work is to make plans that aren't during work hours or on work days. It sounds like your schedule is pretty fixed from week to week, so it could be a lot worse.

You might also try putting in for days off much, much further ahead of time to boost you chances of getting the days you want. For example, my husband has already scheduled for days off he wants in August and next April. Two weeks is a minimum, but longer notice is probably a lot better.
posted by Andrhia at 7:07 AM on April 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

My husband works corporate, because they try to minimise how many people are off at once in his department so he has had to apply up to three or more months in advance to be sure of time of. He applied in January for time off for Gen Con at the end of July as his department is made up of other geeks like him. Those only applying now are being rejected. His company is however good for emergency days of for family illness etc.
posted by wwax at 7:18 AM on April 30, 2015

I just came from a retailer, where I approved/rejected time off requests for upward of 25 employees and fielded these kinds of questions from 200+ employees. Our policy was to have the time off request in at least three weeks in advance. Why? Because we made schedules three weeks out. If you put a time off request in a week before you needed it off, you were already on schedule, and that's when you needed to switch with someone or get someone to pick up your shift (which means you give up your hours).

The only reasons I would deny a request, would be the following:

1) someone else from the same area already had the day off, either through availability restrictions or through a time off request;
2) it was a holiday and no one was getting that day(s) off (which usually came down from someone higher up than me);
3) it was a time of the year when no one got time off (inventory, Christmas) (and I usually ignored this when I could, unless the person was asking for a week+ for non-medical purposes, but I was notoriously employee-minded, so YMMV);
4) it was not submitted within the three-week timeframe (see above); or
5) the system hadn't realigned to the management realignment and the employee's time off requests showed up in another manager's time off request screen and I just didn't see it. Cue a sit down discussion and an apology from me. Seriously. Work/life balance is important.

Were all managers like this? No. But, even at this much disliked retailer where I worked, management was supposed to have an actual, good reason why we would reject requests, and employees were encouraged to go above our heads and discuss rejections with the store manager. Do you have that option? If so, my suggestion would be to politely escalate and see what your boss's boss has to say.

Also, asking for flex-time in retail is asking for a lot; if I let an employee just work 5 hours earlier in the day, that means I need someone to cover the 5 hours on the back-end of your now unfilled shift, and that means (1) I just added to payroll, and (2) I now need to let every employee have that kind of flex time. Would love to; can't. If I can't do it for all, then I can't do it for one.

Altogether, I hope this sheds some light on how the whole time off request thing works, at least from the management side of it.
posted by coast99 at 7:18 AM on April 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

buoys has it

you're a part time employee who has a difficult-to-cover shift

full-time employees as going to get preference over you every time, and it's going to be hard to find someone who wants to switch for a friday night shift
posted by Oktober at 7:51 AM on April 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

retail and food service is just notorious for this.

The problem with the argument "well, you're on a hard to cover shift in the first place" is that everyone needs or wants to go on vacation every now and again.

Unfortunately, there's a reliability dilemma at play - be the person who is dependable and you'll always be the first call - "hey, you were supposed to be off, but..." - and when you ask for time off, they're afraid to let you have it because you're the first line of defense for when others flake out.

I'm not large on abusing sick leave, but hell I'd be tempted to just tell them you're too sick to* work once in a while and put the headset down. If you're remote it's going to be hard to check your story...

I'd also be tempted to be on flexjobs.com or similar sites every day until you find another gig. If you have a proven track record of doing remote jobs successfully, you should find something...

*I would justify it on the grounds that it's a true statement if you substitute "of" for "to".
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:00 AM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

If you can, plan your days off even further in advance - ideally 4-6 weeks or longer.
Also, you won't want to abuse this, but for something that is extremely important to you, you can just tell them you won't be working:
"I need {date} off due to an important personal appointment that unfortunately can't be rescheduled to a time that I'm not usually scheduled to work. Therefore I won't be working that day."

Submit it like you normally do for a day off, but don't make it a request - it's already done, non-negotiable, and you're just informing them.
posted by trivia genius at 8:10 AM on April 30, 2015

You may need to look for a new job, and the next time you really, really, really need to do something, call in sick. That being said, I wonder how calling in sick works in your job, especially since you work from home.

As far as looking for a new job, you will of course need to weigh not being able to get paid time off against being able to work from home and however much you get paid.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:54 AM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

I once worked 3-11 full-time. It's just an isolating shift, no two ways about it. Even if you can swing the occasional day off, which is difficult for reasons stated above, it's unlikely that's going to be enough to meet your social needs long-term. It is just challenging, for most people. Try really hard to get a 9-5 shift, if you can (either where you are or somewhere else).
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:16 AM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Shift work specifically implies that they schedule a specific number of people to cover an expected amount of work. I'm guessing this is a customer service job or something along those lines. I've worked at companies (including an online retailer) that have people in these types of roles, and they manage the workload VERY carefully. They want to keep their costs as low as they can while also answering calls/emails within an amount of time that won't piss off their customers. This means that in an ideal world, they would schedule exactly the number of agents needed to cover the load. Not one too many or too few. (Of course in reality it's impossible to perfectly project how many calls will come in, how long they'll take, etc. but in large companies with a lot of data to draw from, they get impressively close.) This means that even a single agent being out can cause a serious problem.

It's not like normal corporate desk work where you can be gone for a day or even a week and the work will just be waiting for you when you get back. By asking to have the day off, you're causing a problem for your lead/manager because they need to find someone else to cover that shift (and that can cause a domino effect if they need to move people around). That's not to say that they shouldn't allow you to have days off, but assuming I'm guessing correctly about the type of role, there are real consequences to giving people time off, and their incentive to allow it isn't high. Try to look at it from their perspective.
posted by primethyme at 10:59 AM on April 30, 2015 [1 favorite]