Unibody SUVs for light to medium offroading?
April 28, 2015 8:49 AM Subscribe
Are there any unibody SUVs capable of light to medium off-roading?
The common wisdom in the 4x4 crowd seems to be that body on frame with two solid axels is the way to go and it makes sense. However the selection in north america seems to be shrinking. Toyota has discontinued FJ Cruiser, and this is the last year for Nissan's XTerra. In any case, these vehicles have pretty terrible fuel efficiency which is definitely a consideration. I'm not planning on doing any heavy offroading or rock crawling, but I definitely plan on driving forestry service roads, old creek beds and similar so 4x4 with low range and high clearance is a must. The newer unibody SUVs such as Forrester or RAV4 what are they like? Are there any other options I'm missing?
The common wisdom in the 4x4 crowd seems to be that body on frame with two solid axels is the way to go and it makes sense. However the selection in north america seems to be shrinking. Toyota has discontinued FJ Cruiser, and this is the last year for Nissan's XTerra. In any case, these vehicles have pretty terrible fuel efficiency which is definitely a consideration. I'm not planning on doing any heavy offroading or rock crawling, but I definitely plan on driving forestry service roads, old creek beds and similar so 4x4 with low range and high clearance is a must. The newer unibody SUVs such as Forrester or RAV4 what are they like? Are there any other options I'm missing?
The Forester does not have low range; I don't think the RAV4 does either. Neither is the vehicle I would use for your proposed driving, either -- they are fine on logging roads but are not built for heavier off-road use.
I'd add the Tacoma and the Nissan Frontier to your list -- with a four cylinder engine you can get just over 20 mpg which is at least not awful, if not great. Several of the jeep models fit your criteria as well, though with somewhat worse reliability.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:08 AM on April 28, 2015
I'd add the Tacoma and the Nissan Frontier to your list -- with a four cylinder engine you can get just over 20 mpg which is at least not awful, if not great. Several of the jeep models fit your criteria as well, though with somewhat worse reliability.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:08 AM on April 28, 2015
If you absolutely must have real 4x4 (not AWD) with a low range, you are pretty much limited to trucks or truck-like SUVs (Jeep, FJ Cruiser, etc). A Tacoma or Tundra are pretty much the gold-standard for what you want. They are not cheap, new or used.
None of these will be very fuel efficient. I don't think any current unibody SUV has true 4x4; they are all AWD.
You can do a lot with a reasonable clearance AWD vehicle like a Subaru. In my experience, clearance is the real limiting factor and AWD is rarely very important, especially on forestry roads.
Consider how much more you are willing to pay in purchase price, higher fuel costs, higher maintenance costs, higher insurance costs, etc. to get that little bit of extra ability that you'll probably only use a few times a year. Is there some option you can use to rent, borrow, carshare or otherwise use a truck for the times you need one and drive some other vehicle normally?
posted by ssg at 9:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
None of these will be very fuel efficient. I don't think any current unibody SUV has true 4x4; they are all AWD.
You can do a lot with a reasonable clearance AWD vehicle like a Subaru. In my experience, clearance is the real limiting factor and AWD is rarely very important, especially on forestry roads.
Consider how much more you are willing to pay in purchase price, higher fuel costs, higher maintenance costs, higher insurance costs, etc. to get that little bit of extra ability that you'll probably only use a few times a year. Is there some option you can use to rent, borrow, carshare or otherwise use a truck for the times you need one and drive some other vehicle normally?
posted by ssg at 9:19 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
A Ford Ranger is also an option, if you don't need the interior space.
posted by ssg at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2015
posted by ssg at 9:21 AM on April 28, 2015
For light to moderate work, something like the new Jeep Renegade sounds like it would be serviceable - especially in Trailhawk trim. Its reviewing well. I took a quick look at one, and while I decided to go a different direction, it looked like a pretty serviceable vehicle.
I'm sticking with doing this on the cheap, so I've got a 20 year old Jeep Cherokee to do the job of tackling FS roads and the ilk. I haven't done any proper off-roading in it, but it deals with some really wretchedly potholed dirt roads with aplomb. There are still plenty of new parts available to fix it when it breaks. The gas mileage isn't good in an absolute sense, but for a brick on wheels with an aging and abused 4L engine, it ain't bad on highway. Good ones are around $5,000, but a rough one may well serve your needs for a lot less.
posted by wotsac at 9:37 AM on April 28, 2015
I'm sticking with doing this on the cheap, so I've got a 20 year old Jeep Cherokee to do the job of tackling FS roads and the ilk. I haven't done any proper off-roading in it, but it deals with some really wretchedly potholed dirt roads with aplomb. There are still plenty of new parts available to fix it when it breaks. The gas mileage isn't good in an absolute sense, but for a brick on wheels with an aging and abused 4L engine, it ain't bad on highway. Good ones are around $5,000, but a rough one may well serve your needs for a lot less.
posted by wotsac at 9:37 AM on April 28, 2015
My Mazda CX-5 is a great car, but I would rule it out for what you're talking about. It's meant for mud and snow on streets, not creek beds.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:56 AM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:56 AM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
If low range is a must I'm not aware of anything unibody besides the Cherokee Trailhawk and Renegade Trailhawk.
posted by ftm at 10:01 AM on April 28, 2015
posted by ftm at 10:01 AM on April 28, 2015
The newer unibody SUVs such as Forrester or RAV4 what are they like? Are there any other options I'm missing?
They don't have low range, or true 4wheel drive. They have decent clearance, but still lots of low hanging body panels and cladding for aerodynamics. These pieces are plastic and prone to breaking.
I think the Wrangler is the only body on frame Jeep 4x4 these days. The rest of the lineup is unibody. You might look at the Jeep Renegade Trailhawk. I saw a few at the Easter Jeep Safari in Moab, and they're a bit smaller than the RAV and Forester, but far more capable. And of course, Jeep has the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee - which is making 30MPG with the diesel option. The GC can get to 55k pretty easy though, and the diesel if a 6k option. The Cherokee is a bit less expensive, but still close to 40k and low 20s fuel economy.
Another alternative is the Land Rover. The Evoque is a unibody with low range that makes 30MPG and is quite a bit smaller. Then of course there are the LR4 and Range Rover lines. The LR4 isn't too expensive - 50k-ish loaded. The RR get's 120k for the top of the line.
If you're willing to sacrifice the unibody construction (the FJCruiser was body on frame) consider the Tacoma and the 4Runner. Both of those have well deserved reputations for reliability, and make 20 MPG on the freeway. Which isn't terrible, given the capabilities.
My Taco, fully dressed with a roof top tent, and weeks worth of gear, offroad tires and 1/4" steel armor makes 14-15 MPG. Around town, I do 18-19. I'd love to make 30, but really, it's a tank.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
They don't have low range, or true 4wheel drive. They have decent clearance, but still lots of low hanging body panels and cladding for aerodynamics. These pieces are plastic and prone to breaking.
I think the Wrangler is the only body on frame Jeep 4x4 these days. The rest of the lineup is unibody. You might look at the Jeep Renegade Trailhawk. I saw a few at the Easter Jeep Safari in Moab, and they're a bit smaller than the RAV and Forester, but far more capable. And of course, Jeep has the Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee - which is making 30MPG with the diesel option. The GC can get to 55k pretty easy though, and the diesel if a 6k option. The Cherokee is a bit less expensive, but still close to 40k and low 20s fuel economy.
Another alternative is the Land Rover. The Evoque is a unibody with low range that makes 30MPG and is quite a bit smaller. Then of course there are the LR4 and Range Rover lines. The LR4 isn't too expensive - 50k-ish loaded. The RR get's 120k for the top of the line.
If you're willing to sacrifice the unibody construction (the FJCruiser was body on frame) consider the Tacoma and the 4Runner. Both of those have well deserved reputations for reliability, and make 20 MPG on the freeway. Which isn't terrible, given the capabilities.
My Taco, fully dressed with a roof top tent, and weeks worth of gear, offroad tires and 1/4" steel armor makes 14-15 MPG. Around town, I do 18-19. I'd love to make 30, but really, it's a tank.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
After some technical considerations-namely 4wd or AWD and above average underbody clearance (say 7" or more, more is better) the biggest factor is driver skill (and possibly tires).
I had a Subaru brat that was awesome off road-with 13" tires and 4 wheel independent suspension. It also had a two speed transfer case (meaning it had a low range). It didn't have a big engine (about 60hp), it didn't have big narly mud tires (13" all seasons worked pretty good). It did have a very small wheel base and narrow track allowing me to pick a precise line over/around obstacles and to just bypass the worst mud pits and such. It also weighed less than 2000 lbs allowing me to get pulled out or even just use a come along(a type of hand winch) to get out of bad situations. Unless you are already a gearhead I DONT recommend going with a 20+ year old subaru (that were honestly not all that well built when new). My point being that the conventional wisdom of the only good offroad vehicles are the huge, overpowered, straight axle body on frame is a holdover from the days when that was all their was and some weird 'murican macho BS.
A late 90's to 2001 Jeep XJ cherokee is a great vehicle. Still pretty cheap and rugged, and mechanically reliable-but as with most jeeps of this vintage the interior quality is...lacking and unfortunately a LOT of them suffer from being ill maintained due to their current low cost. I really wouldn't recommend unless you are capable of doing your own maintenance.
A Tacoma/FJ cruiser are also very, very good vehicles (I currently drive a 4wd Tacoma) and some of the best off road capable vehicles on the market today. However they are not cheap-new or used but they will last forever and they is a very, very large aftermarket for them. They are a little more practical than a wrangler (they are larger, and generally are more comfortable to ride in).
A Wrangler is a good choice if you don't need much room and don't mind a 'twitchy' vehicle on the interstate. They are pretty high stock, and have a short wheelbase which makes them a little unsteady at higher speeds (the newer ones are better and the unlimited are pretty much normal feeling but cost more...). My experience with Jeep is that the mechanical bits (engine, transmission, axles, etc) are as good as anyone else's but their interiors and electronics are not very well made.
The sweet spot for cost/performance is probably a used Nissan pickup or x-terra about 5 years old in good shape. The bad news is they are not very common as they haven't ever sold in high numbers. Nissan's are almost as good as the Toyota's and much more reliable than used jeeps (in my experience anyway). I went with Toyota due to seat comfort/fit to my body. If the Frontiers had fit my body better I would have gone that way without a second thought.
My last advice-stay away from any aftermarket mods that alter the ride height (lift kits) or the engine. Most are badly installed, poorly engineered and usually put on by people who then go out and abuse the vehicle. My only modification to a long, long list of 4wd camping/hunting vehicles has been to put on slightly taller, narrower tires than stock and/or go up a rim size (usually 15 to 16"). On newer vehicles the rim change ins't necessary as almost all of them come with 16" rims stock (16" truck tires are usually much tougher than 15" tires).
This guy is awesome for all kinds of advice on how to setup and use a vehicle for the kind of off roading you are talking about (he bought a Tacoma also).
posted by bartonlong at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2015
I had a Subaru brat that was awesome off road-with 13" tires and 4 wheel independent suspension. It also had a two speed transfer case (meaning it had a low range). It didn't have a big engine (about 60hp), it didn't have big narly mud tires (13" all seasons worked pretty good). It did have a very small wheel base and narrow track allowing me to pick a precise line over/around obstacles and to just bypass the worst mud pits and such. It also weighed less than 2000 lbs allowing me to get pulled out or even just use a come along(a type of hand winch) to get out of bad situations. Unless you are already a gearhead I DONT recommend going with a 20+ year old subaru (that were honestly not all that well built when new). My point being that the conventional wisdom of the only good offroad vehicles are the huge, overpowered, straight axle body on frame is a holdover from the days when that was all their was and some weird 'murican macho BS.
A late 90's to 2001 Jeep XJ cherokee is a great vehicle. Still pretty cheap and rugged, and mechanically reliable-but as with most jeeps of this vintage the interior quality is...lacking and unfortunately a LOT of them suffer from being ill maintained due to their current low cost. I really wouldn't recommend unless you are capable of doing your own maintenance.
A Tacoma/FJ cruiser are also very, very good vehicles (I currently drive a 4wd Tacoma) and some of the best off road capable vehicles on the market today. However they are not cheap-new or used but they will last forever and they is a very, very large aftermarket for them. They are a little more practical than a wrangler (they are larger, and generally are more comfortable to ride in).
A Wrangler is a good choice if you don't need much room and don't mind a 'twitchy' vehicle on the interstate. They are pretty high stock, and have a short wheelbase which makes them a little unsteady at higher speeds (the newer ones are better and the unlimited are pretty much normal feeling but cost more...). My experience with Jeep is that the mechanical bits (engine, transmission, axles, etc) are as good as anyone else's but their interiors and electronics are not very well made.
The sweet spot for cost/performance is probably a used Nissan pickup or x-terra about 5 years old in good shape. The bad news is they are not very common as they haven't ever sold in high numbers. Nissan's are almost as good as the Toyota's and much more reliable than used jeeps (in my experience anyway). I went with Toyota due to seat comfort/fit to my body. If the Frontiers had fit my body better I would have gone that way without a second thought.
My last advice-stay away from any aftermarket mods that alter the ride height (lift kits) or the engine. Most are badly installed, poorly engineered and usually put on by people who then go out and abuse the vehicle. My only modification to a long, long list of 4wd camping/hunting vehicles has been to put on slightly taller, narrower tires than stock and/or go up a rim size (usually 15 to 16"). On newer vehicles the rim change ins't necessary as almost all of them come with 16" rims stock (16" truck tires are usually much tougher than 15" tires).
This guy is awesome for all kinds of advice on how to setup and use a vehicle for the kind of off roading you are talking about (he bought a Tacoma also).
posted by bartonlong at 10:18 AM on April 28, 2015
Unibody flexes. Period. As your road surface becomes more uneven, it flexes more. At some point, you transition from flexing to stressing, and then at a certain point that too transitions from stressing to bending. And you obviously don't want bending. Even stressing on a unibody vehicle can sometimes tweak doors or hoods so that they don't close as well as they once did, or cause body panel gaps to widen or close up.
I think the key here is your definition of "moderate". For me, "moderate" offroading, even on Forrest Service roads, encompasses a very wide range of potentially technical situations, including 4x4 situations where I need greater-than-stock ground clearance and either a low range and/or a rear locker, but stops short of situations where I need a winch, 33"+ tires, and/or someone to act as my spotter. But we may have different definitions of moderate.
Keep in mind, it is much easier to get yourself into trouble than get yourself back out again. For me, I would not be comfortable doing any extended moderate-by-my-definition offroading with a unibody vehicle. I'd much rather tackle this stuff by being over-equippped and over-prepared, rather than hoping my unibody vehicle was up to the challenge. FWIW, I have done some moderate offroading in a unibody vehicle, I have had a few sphincter-puckering moments as a result, and based on that experience I would not choose to do that again.
I have a 2002 Tacoma Double Cab, and have owned it for about 5 years, and previously owned other Toyota 4x4s. The Taco is an awesome vehicle, more than capable on and off road, and even gets decent mileage (20-ish hwy on 285/75-16 tires, although for towing and improved ground clearance I did install firmer, taller springs front and rear). I will own this thing until it falls apart, and I am confident it will safely take our family anywhere I expect to go.
Good luck with your search!
posted by mosk at 11:38 AM on April 28, 2015
I think the key here is your definition of "moderate". For me, "moderate" offroading, even on Forrest Service roads, encompasses a very wide range of potentially technical situations, including 4x4 situations where I need greater-than-stock ground clearance and either a low range and/or a rear locker, but stops short of situations where I need a winch, 33"+ tires, and/or someone to act as my spotter. But we may have different definitions of moderate.
Keep in mind, it is much easier to get yourself into trouble than get yourself back out again. For me, I would not be comfortable doing any extended moderate-by-my-definition offroading with a unibody vehicle. I'd much rather tackle this stuff by being over-equippped and over-prepared, rather than hoping my unibody vehicle was up to the challenge. FWIW, I have done some moderate offroading in a unibody vehicle, I have had a few sphincter-puckering moments as a result, and based on that experience I would not choose to do that again.
I have a 2002 Tacoma Double Cab, and have owned it for about 5 years, and previously owned other Toyota 4x4s. The Taco is an awesome vehicle, more than capable on and off road, and even gets decent mileage (20-ish hwy on 285/75-16 tires, although for towing and improved ground clearance I did install firmer, taller springs front and rear). I will own this thing until it falls apart, and I am confident it will safely take our family anywhere I expect to go.
Good luck with your search!
posted by mosk at 11:38 AM on April 28, 2015
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Are you planning on frequent offroad drives? I have hiked on a lot of forestry roads up in my area and I own a RAV4. That is really a "car" SUV and I would NOT take it on the kind of forestry roads we have up here. Same with the Forester. I do drive it down a rutty camp road pretty often but it's less than a mile and I go extremely slow. These vehicles are unibodies, yes, but they are also AWD instead of 4WD and might actually be a bigger issue.
I don't know what your use case is from the above but if I had to drive on a lot of these kind of roads I would buy used instead of looking for something new.
posted by selfnoise at 9:00 AM on April 28, 2015