Should I tell interviewers that I was on a Performance Improvement Plan?
April 26, 2015 5:41 PM Subscribe
I wasn't fired but decided to leave before the plan ended. When asked why I left my previous employer, I give other reasons and try to sound positive about the company I left.
Is this the right approach or should I start explaining the PIP and difficulty I had at my last job?
Also, if this is the right approach, I'm wondering what HR at my previous company will say about my employment status before I left.
I was put on the plan after being assigned a new role that I wasn't completely prepared for and my new manager wasn't happy with my performance. There were no other issues.
Also, if this is the right approach, I'm wondering what HR at my previous company will say about my employment status before I left.
I was put on the plan after being assigned a new role that I wasn't completely prepared for and my new manager wasn't happy with my performance. There were no other issues.
When asked why I left my previous employer, I give other reasons and try to sound positive about the company I left. Is this the right approachYes!
or should I start explaining the PIP and difficulty I had at my last job?No!
I'm wondering what HR at my previous company will say about my employment status before I left.They will probably just confirm that you worked there.
It is not your responsibility to preemptively dig up stuff about your history that makes you look worse.
posted by dfan at 5:50 PM on April 26, 2015 [16 favorites]
Best answer: I was put on the plan after being assigned a new role that I wasn't completely prepared for
This sounds like a case of "set up to fail." Not saying you did, mind you!
It's perfectly ethical to say that you were placed into a new role that wasn't a good fit for you, and that you made the decision to leave rather than struggle.
You can easily make this into a positive: there were changes made that were beyond your control, and after giving the new role a try, you made the decision to leave voluntarily. From what you described, this sounds like it was true.
As a positive, it's says that you put your own interests AND those of your previous employer above struggling in a job that wasn't right for you.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:51 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
This sounds like a case of "set up to fail." Not saying you did, mind you!
It's perfectly ethical to say that you were placed into a new role that wasn't a good fit for you, and that you made the decision to leave rather than struggle.
You can easily make this into a positive: there were changes made that were beyond your control, and after giving the new role a try, you made the decision to leave voluntarily. From what you described, this sounds like it was true.
As a positive, it's says that you put your own interests AND those of your previous employer above struggling in a job that wasn't right for you.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:51 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, here's the thing about a PIP. It's more of an indictment of the company than it is of the employee. They chose the wrong person, had a poor training program, and in some cases falsified performance evaluations for a long time. It doesn't mean you're a bad employee. Having to put someone on a PIP is heartbreaking for the manager because usually the employee is the nicest person and trying really hard, but just isn't capable for reasons out of their control. If that wasn't the case—if they just weren't trying—it would be a lot easier. There would be no PIP; it would be a conduct issue and easy to resolve one way or the other.
I guess what I'm saying is, no, I wouldn't volunteer that information and I wouldn't expect it to come up in a reference check. But I WOULD avoid getting yourself into that situation again. If the new position is similar, be honest in the interview that you would need help getting up to speed.
posted by ctmf at 5:53 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess what I'm saying is, no, I wouldn't volunteer that information and I wouldn't expect it to come up in a reference check. But I WOULD avoid getting yourself into that situation again. If the new position is similar, be honest in the interview that you would need help getting up to speed.
posted by ctmf at 5:53 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Good advice has already been given.
I'll just add that I'd think twice about beating around the bush too much, except about the PIP. Leaving a job without another job lined up automatically tells any interviewer worth their salt that Something Happened, especially if it's the only time you've done it. If the interviewer cares about why you did that, they're going to ask, and most of them are going to know when you're bullshitting them. If the interviewer doesn't care about why you did that, then the whole issue is moot.
I've been interviewing, after recently ragequitting my job (while at a really high point; every other job on my resume overlaps with the previous one, so it's Really Obvious that Something Happened), and I had a hardass, very experienced recruiter at a company I applied for keep asking and asking and asking about why I would leave at such a great time in my career without anything lined up, and my answer of "ready for a change and wanted to take the time to re-evaluate what I'm really looking for in a career; by the way, your company with X increase in Y with A and B happening in X part of the company is incredible, and I'd love to be a part of that" wasn't cutting it, even though it wasn't a lie. It just wasn't the whole truth, and she knew it. I cracked and laid it all out there (as positively as I possibly could, mind you), thinking, "Well, screw it. This is blown." That interview lasted another 60-70 minutes and ended with a third interview lined up. I'm pretty sure the recruiter suspected I got fired, until I just flat-out explained to her what happened, so...just read your interviewer and make the call to pull that trigger or not, is what I'm saying.
Also, if you worked for a small employer, your old boss might give a detailed reference and not just dates. (My former boss at a tiny law firm LOVES talking about former employees with reference checkers.) Without knowing the size of your former employer, it's hard to tell you what sort of information they're likely to divulge.
posted by coast99 at 6:39 PM on April 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'll just add that I'd think twice about beating around the bush too much, except about the PIP. Leaving a job without another job lined up automatically tells any interviewer worth their salt that Something Happened, especially if it's the only time you've done it. If the interviewer cares about why you did that, they're going to ask, and most of them are going to know when you're bullshitting them. If the interviewer doesn't care about why you did that, then the whole issue is moot.
I've been interviewing, after recently ragequitting my job (while at a really high point; every other job on my resume overlaps with the previous one, so it's Really Obvious that Something Happened), and I had a hardass, very experienced recruiter at a company I applied for keep asking and asking and asking about why I would leave at such a great time in my career without anything lined up, and my answer of "ready for a change and wanted to take the time to re-evaluate what I'm really looking for in a career; by the way, your company with X increase in Y with A and B happening in X part of the company is incredible, and I'd love to be a part of that" wasn't cutting it, even though it wasn't a lie. It just wasn't the whole truth, and she knew it. I cracked and laid it all out there (as positively as I possibly could, mind you), thinking, "Well, screw it. This is blown." That interview lasted another 60-70 minutes and ended with a third interview lined up. I'm pretty sure the recruiter suspected I got fired, until I just flat-out explained to her what happened, so...just read your interviewer and make the call to pull that trigger or not, is what I'm saying.
Also, if you worked for a small employer, your old boss might give a detailed reference and not just dates. (My former boss at a tiny law firm LOVES talking about former employees with reference checkers.) Without knowing the size of your former employer, it's hard to tell you what sort of information they're likely to divulge.
posted by coast99 at 6:39 PM on April 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Excellent advice upthread. You are approaching this 100% correctly. Don't mention the PIP. Just make sure your reasons for leaving make sense and sound plausible. As for your HR concerns, I don't know if this varies state from state, but in Massachusetts (& I think California) it is illegal for an HR person to divulge details about your performance. They can confirm dates of employment, title, & possibly salary, but that's it.
posted by katemcd at 6:57 PM on April 26, 2015
posted by katemcd at 6:57 PM on April 26, 2015
Claims that previous employers can only verify basic details of employment are often made and are rarely true. Don't believe such a claim without a citation.
posted by grouse at 8:00 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by grouse at 8:00 PM on April 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
it's hard to tell you what sort of information they're likely to divulge.
It's hard for any of us to tell; it's pretty easy for you to do so. Just get a friend to call up as though they're checking your references, and see what sort of information they can talk out of your previous employer. If it's nothing but name, rank, and date, that's the end of that. If it's more...? Well, then you can start formulating a plan to do damage control when a prospective employer calls.
Some big companies provide 'references' on a companywide level through automated IVR systems that literally provide no information except start and end employment dates, and salary information if the former employee elects to disclose it. So in those cases, you can pretty confidently know exactly what information is going to be revealed. It gets sketchier as you move towards smaller companies and into more incestuous industries. One of the rare benefits of working for a giant megacorp, really.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:07 PM on April 26, 2015
It's hard for any of us to tell; it's pretty easy for you to do so. Just get a friend to call up as though they're checking your references, and see what sort of information they can talk out of your previous employer. If it's nothing but name, rank, and date, that's the end of that. If it's more...? Well, then you can start formulating a plan to do damage control when a prospective employer calls.
Some big companies provide 'references' on a companywide level through automated IVR systems that literally provide no information except start and end employment dates, and salary information if the former employee elects to disclose it. So in those cases, you can pretty confidently know exactly what information is going to be revealed. It gets sketchier as you move towards smaller companies and into more incestuous industries. One of the rare benefits of working for a giant megacorp, really.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:07 PM on April 26, 2015
Well, if they don't do their homework on you, then not giving them any reason to suspect your performance wasn't 100% exemplary is the best option. But if they do do their homework, then if you say you left because you were just "looking for a new challenge" or the usual candidate line, you are going to come across as dishonest. I think mandolin conspiracy's wording is a nice compromise.
posted by phoenixy at 7:38 AM on April 27, 2015
posted by phoenixy at 7:38 AM on April 27, 2015
I just wanted to clarify: my nowledge about what a previous employer can divulge in MA comes from a certified HR professional in Massachusetts. YMMV depending on your state, I don't know. Kadin2048's suggestion is a good one.
posted by katemcd at 10:39 AM on April 27, 2015
posted by katemcd at 10:39 AM on April 27, 2015
Unfortunately human resources staff often misstate the law. I've lost count of the number of times an HR staffer has told me something was "illegal" when it's something that is maybe just not advisable in certain circumstances or the HR staffer simply didn't want to do it. It's not a good idea to rely on that.
posted by grouse at 11:34 AM on April 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by grouse at 11:34 AM on April 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone and sorry for the late response. Everyone's comments were really helpful. Mandolin conspiracy's and Coast99's comments were most helpful for my situation. I knew in interviews that my explanation of just needing a break wasn't enough so I decided to use the explanation that I was "placed into a new role that wasn't a good fit for you (me), and that you (I) made the decision to leave rather than struggle." This approach helps me to be open and honest about everything and helps me see how to explain it in a positive light. I had phone interview today and the question didn't even come up but knowing that I could explain it helped me feel more confident in the interview.
posted by bolquist at 4:07 PM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bolquist at 4:07 PM on June 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would continue being upbeat. If pressed, say something about how you loved working there, loved x and y about your job, but were reassigned to a role that was not as good a fit and you decided mutually to part ways (or something along those lines). But only say that if absolutely pressed.
posted by lunasol at 5:50 PM on April 26, 2015 [8 favorites]