Reprimanded at work how to keep my job and my dignity?
April 18, 2015 9:54 AM Subscribe
Having trouble sublimating myself when I feel attacked at every turn and attitude is given but when I defend myself I'm seen as a bitch. I'm not a bitch but also not willing to be thrown under the bus constantly. Long.
My organization is admittedly horrible at communicating. We tend to react rather than be proactive and it's maddening.
I've worked admin for just over 5 yrs in a male dominated workplace. Generally get along very well w/the guys and let them be alphas while maintaining my dignity which isn't always easy. A few months ago a problem that had been simmering for almost a yr came to a head and a coworker spoke to me very disrespectfully, to the point where I said let's take this to the director we're obviously not resolving this. He called me and we spoke, he said flat out that he told coworker to say what she did. (She'd been telling me a major job duty was totally different than the way I'd been doing all 5 yrs I've been there and she's only been w/us 1 yr herself. It was a maddening convo, she was very snide towards me). I was angry already but I got madder then, told him he needed to think about what he says to people and that I had every right to be angry. I was being spoken to rudely and the worst part was I'd seen the problem perking along and spoken to several people about it including my boss who is passive aggressive and ducks problems (didn't say the stuff about boss to director). At one point he told me angrily to watch my tone of voice, which I said yes I will try but I hope you understand how bad this situation is. Added complication is I'm at a satellite office and all but one of the people I've tangled with work there. They institute policy changes and rarely inform my office then act like we're stupid or deficient for not knowing these changes. This is a problem for all my coworkers at my location, it's an out of sight out of mind mentality, not done in any mean spirited manner but the result is we're often behind/wrong/cleaning up mistakes that didn't have to happen in the first place if someone would just tell us as things change. Director freely admitted that he himself is bad at disseminating info, and he really is, a lot of problems land at his feet due to his lack of communication.
I had a run in w/a coworker who came in my office griping, I tried to calm him, he was gunning for a fight. I explained that I had not set up the situation he was upset about and asked him to call our boss who was out of town, he's always out of town. Griping turned into ranting, directed at me. I tried calm speech, then making mild jokes, when he clearly had an agenda I told him to leave my office and stay away from me, that I was not going to be spoken to like he was doing and he went off even more. He was wrong, made a fool of himself in front of a few bystanders and came in to apologize to me about 30 minutes later. Meanwhile, boss called me fishing for info, I didn't bring it up, my thinking was, coworker had called him to complain and boss was trying to see if I'd bitch about it. By then it was over and no need to drag boss into it esp w/him away. This coworker has done similar things in the past, ALWAYS when boss is away. It's like he knows he can get away w/it and his behavior gets really shitty. Boss has always sided with and protects this coworker, and some of the stuff he gets himself into is beyond defending but that's not my concern. I only care when he's directing his nuttiness at me.
I have one other person I have trouble with but everyone has trouble with this guy, he's volunteered his services to our national level mgmt and cannot keep up w/his main job supporting us (he's our tech guy). Many times he's been nasty to me, to the point that I've had to say I'm hanging up now before I lose my temper with the way you're speaking to me. He's condescending and rude, doesn't return phone calls, text msgs, emails, etc for days, weeks and months. I am not the only person who has trouble w/him, he's definitely become a prima donna since he's ingratiated himself to nat'l. A recent phone call to him about some equipment problems led to him telling me the item I was preparing was not used anymore, in fact he said he's not aware of it being used in at least a year. I told him this was a great example of poor communication, that it's impossible to do my job if nobody tells me about updates to my duties esp for major parts of it. I wasn't mad, I just said that and reinforced how poor communication leads to big problems for our clients, which is always the final goal. He was really mad at me for speaking up, his tone of voice was awful, pure anger and derision. He called me back 10 min later to say he owed me an apology, that he'd misunderstood me (read-not listened to me). I know he went to the director to prove he was right, to say I was wrong and a bitch, all these changes and questions go through director. And thank god the director told him he was incorrect. He was really deflated when he called me back. I told him we were fine, but that in reality the bigger problem was the way he spoke to me. I said hey man we can fix anything, but you may not speak to me like I'm stupid. He's not a bad guy just overextended himself and is now paying for it, well we all are in a way. Meanwhile when I can't reach him, clients suffer, which actually means, we suffer. Loss of business, esteem from our clients, reputation, etc.
So yesterday asst. director is at my bldg, asks to take me to lunch, where he hands me a pamphlet for an anger mgmt seminar he wants me to attend. Says director wanted to fire me but he'd talked him down. Director 'knew' he'd informed me by email of the major job duty change that created all the drama between us. I laughed and told asst. well he's lying because you and I both know if there were any proof he'd have brought it out to rub my nose in. I also said I have every single email he's ever sent me, there's nothing about this major duty change. I've been asking for almost a year about this too and predicted a big problem would come from it. Asst. didn't have much to say to that other than a vague well I've had some other complaints about you. None from clients, only coworkers. I said I'll go to your seminar but there is no seminar that will make me allow people to speak to me rudely. I have a long fuse and generally have to be pushed to get me mad. We are told to hang up if a client talks to us the way these coworkers have spoken to me.
TL;DR
I've reacted poorly to some shitty behavior directed at me. I've committed the biggest sin in my organization, being a woman speaking up for herself. Mostly I've pissed off the director. Thank goodness hires/fires go through the board most of whom know all the intricacies and like me and my performance. I'm not too afraid of director, his wife used to work at main office too and was a tyrant. He tried protecting her until she poisoned the well and got herself fired after many years and much bad juju. Director is in his final years w/us, his power base is shrinking all the time. Another coworker at main office pulled the shitty behavior stunt of the century last year and got 6 wks off w/pay for his 'punishment.' I mean, epic stunt culminating in a drunken 100 mile drive in a company vehicle, we are all still amazed he is employed. He didn't have to attend any seminars.
I need to deal with this. I need to let director know I'm aware I can improve my reactions to these situations but I must be respected as much as the other actors are. I'm a pretty mild and warm person so when I do get really mad people are usually shocked and upset by my 'attitude'. This is a lifelong problem, I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong with you? You've never acted like this etc.
I have a week while director and asst. are out of town to think this through. I'd like to set up a meeting w/both of them where I admit my failings, ask forgiveness for engaging, give examples of how I will react in the future (BOUNDARIES are my friend) and ask for bi-weekly phone conferences w/admin and techie. I'm thinking these are fairly easy solutions that may actually work. But what's bothering me is the dignity aspect, I feel if I apologize too much I'm admitting it's my fault and I don't think any of these situations are my fault. I could react better but damn it how many times do I allow people to shit on me?
It's a pretty good job overall and there are many wonderful people at my location and main office who I admire and enjoy working with. I'd like to keep the job and my dignity if possible but am getting bogged down in assigning blame myself which I hate. I can't say this to them but I really see this as them taking the easy way out. They see a problem, don't want to put any effort into solving it but want the offending person to attend a pertinent seminar and that's all that ever happens. I don't want to attend seminar, asked point blank if it was req'd for my continued employment, asst said no but it was recommended. I said I needed to think it over and that I was mad that it was being handled this way. I really see this as a sexist issue, the men aren't reprimanded like this at all, they fight like dogs in the alley but rarely face repercussions. I doubt I can voice this concern and be recognized and that adds to my frustration.
My organization is admittedly horrible at communicating. We tend to react rather than be proactive and it's maddening.
I've worked admin for just over 5 yrs in a male dominated workplace. Generally get along very well w/the guys and let them be alphas while maintaining my dignity which isn't always easy. A few months ago a problem that had been simmering for almost a yr came to a head and a coworker spoke to me very disrespectfully, to the point where I said let's take this to the director we're obviously not resolving this. He called me and we spoke, he said flat out that he told coworker to say what she did. (She'd been telling me a major job duty was totally different than the way I'd been doing all 5 yrs I've been there and she's only been w/us 1 yr herself. It was a maddening convo, she was very snide towards me). I was angry already but I got madder then, told him he needed to think about what he says to people and that I had every right to be angry. I was being spoken to rudely and the worst part was I'd seen the problem perking along and spoken to several people about it including my boss who is passive aggressive and ducks problems (didn't say the stuff about boss to director). At one point he told me angrily to watch my tone of voice, which I said yes I will try but I hope you understand how bad this situation is. Added complication is I'm at a satellite office and all but one of the people I've tangled with work there. They institute policy changes and rarely inform my office then act like we're stupid or deficient for not knowing these changes. This is a problem for all my coworkers at my location, it's an out of sight out of mind mentality, not done in any mean spirited manner but the result is we're often behind/wrong/cleaning up mistakes that didn't have to happen in the first place if someone would just tell us as things change. Director freely admitted that he himself is bad at disseminating info, and he really is, a lot of problems land at his feet due to his lack of communication.
I had a run in w/a coworker who came in my office griping, I tried to calm him, he was gunning for a fight. I explained that I had not set up the situation he was upset about and asked him to call our boss who was out of town, he's always out of town. Griping turned into ranting, directed at me. I tried calm speech, then making mild jokes, when he clearly had an agenda I told him to leave my office and stay away from me, that I was not going to be spoken to like he was doing and he went off even more. He was wrong, made a fool of himself in front of a few bystanders and came in to apologize to me about 30 minutes later. Meanwhile, boss called me fishing for info, I didn't bring it up, my thinking was, coworker had called him to complain and boss was trying to see if I'd bitch about it. By then it was over and no need to drag boss into it esp w/him away. This coworker has done similar things in the past, ALWAYS when boss is away. It's like he knows he can get away w/it and his behavior gets really shitty. Boss has always sided with and protects this coworker, and some of the stuff he gets himself into is beyond defending but that's not my concern. I only care when he's directing his nuttiness at me.
I have one other person I have trouble with but everyone has trouble with this guy, he's volunteered his services to our national level mgmt and cannot keep up w/his main job supporting us (he's our tech guy). Many times he's been nasty to me, to the point that I've had to say I'm hanging up now before I lose my temper with the way you're speaking to me. He's condescending and rude, doesn't return phone calls, text msgs, emails, etc for days, weeks and months. I am not the only person who has trouble w/him, he's definitely become a prima donna since he's ingratiated himself to nat'l. A recent phone call to him about some equipment problems led to him telling me the item I was preparing was not used anymore, in fact he said he's not aware of it being used in at least a year. I told him this was a great example of poor communication, that it's impossible to do my job if nobody tells me about updates to my duties esp for major parts of it. I wasn't mad, I just said that and reinforced how poor communication leads to big problems for our clients, which is always the final goal. He was really mad at me for speaking up, his tone of voice was awful, pure anger and derision. He called me back 10 min later to say he owed me an apology, that he'd misunderstood me (read-not listened to me). I know he went to the director to prove he was right, to say I was wrong and a bitch, all these changes and questions go through director. And thank god the director told him he was incorrect. He was really deflated when he called me back. I told him we were fine, but that in reality the bigger problem was the way he spoke to me. I said hey man we can fix anything, but you may not speak to me like I'm stupid. He's not a bad guy just overextended himself and is now paying for it, well we all are in a way. Meanwhile when I can't reach him, clients suffer, which actually means, we suffer. Loss of business, esteem from our clients, reputation, etc.
So yesterday asst. director is at my bldg, asks to take me to lunch, where he hands me a pamphlet for an anger mgmt seminar he wants me to attend. Says director wanted to fire me but he'd talked him down. Director 'knew' he'd informed me by email of the major job duty change that created all the drama between us. I laughed and told asst. well he's lying because you and I both know if there were any proof he'd have brought it out to rub my nose in. I also said I have every single email he's ever sent me, there's nothing about this major duty change. I've been asking for almost a year about this too and predicted a big problem would come from it. Asst. didn't have much to say to that other than a vague well I've had some other complaints about you. None from clients, only coworkers. I said I'll go to your seminar but there is no seminar that will make me allow people to speak to me rudely. I have a long fuse and generally have to be pushed to get me mad. We are told to hang up if a client talks to us the way these coworkers have spoken to me.
TL;DR
I've reacted poorly to some shitty behavior directed at me. I've committed the biggest sin in my organization, being a woman speaking up for herself. Mostly I've pissed off the director. Thank goodness hires/fires go through the board most of whom know all the intricacies and like me and my performance. I'm not too afraid of director, his wife used to work at main office too and was a tyrant. He tried protecting her until she poisoned the well and got herself fired after many years and much bad juju. Director is in his final years w/us, his power base is shrinking all the time. Another coworker at main office pulled the shitty behavior stunt of the century last year and got 6 wks off w/pay for his 'punishment.' I mean, epic stunt culminating in a drunken 100 mile drive in a company vehicle, we are all still amazed he is employed. He didn't have to attend any seminars.
I need to deal with this. I need to let director know I'm aware I can improve my reactions to these situations but I must be respected as much as the other actors are. I'm a pretty mild and warm person so when I do get really mad people are usually shocked and upset by my 'attitude'. This is a lifelong problem, I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong with you? You've never acted like this etc.
I have a week while director and asst. are out of town to think this through. I'd like to set up a meeting w/both of them where I admit my failings, ask forgiveness for engaging, give examples of how I will react in the future (BOUNDARIES are my friend) and ask for bi-weekly phone conferences w/admin and techie. I'm thinking these are fairly easy solutions that may actually work. But what's bothering me is the dignity aspect, I feel if I apologize too much I'm admitting it's my fault and I don't think any of these situations are my fault. I could react better but damn it how many times do I allow people to shit on me?
It's a pretty good job overall and there are many wonderful people at my location and main office who I admire and enjoy working with. I'd like to keep the job and my dignity if possible but am getting bogged down in assigning blame myself which I hate. I can't say this to them but I really see this as them taking the easy way out. They see a problem, don't want to put any effort into solving it but want the offending person to attend a pertinent seminar and that's all that ever happens. I don't want to attend seminar, asked point blank if it was req'd for my continued employment, asst said no but it was recommended. I said I needed to think it over and that I was mad that it was being handled this way. I really see this as a sexist issue, the men aren't reprimanded like this at all, they fight like dogs in the alley but rarely face repercussions. I doubt I can voice this concern and be recognized and that adds to my frustration.
This is a lifelong problem, I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered blow
This is pretty much exactly what anger-management courses, books, and/or therapy are meant to a address. That's an anger-management problem.
Given the very large number of people you say you're "tangling" with, you're either in an extraordinarily toxic work environment or you're the common denominator in sparking these conflicts. Either way, working on your own ability to tolerate, manage, and respectfully and appropriately express anger will likely be a helpful skill. Especially if they're willing to pay for the seminar, it may be a worthwhile investment of time and energy.
posted by jaguar at 10:04 AM on April 18, 2015 [53 favorites]
This is pretty much exactly what anger-management courses, books, and/or therapy are meant to a address. That's an anger-management problem.
Given the very large number of people you say you're "tangling" with, you're either in an extraordinarily toxic work environment or you're the common denominator in sparking these conflicts. Either way, working on your own ability to tolerate, manage, and respectfully and appropriately express anger will likely be a helpful skill. Especially if they're willing to pay for the seminar, it may be a worthwhile investment of time and energy.
posted by jaguar at 10:04 AM on April 18, 2015 [53 favorites]
I'm sorry, I do not understand your position at all.
You spend a really long time detailing one of the worst and most toxic workplace dynamics ever described on AskMe, then you end with the equivalent of, "This is all my fault and I need to make amends and keep this shitty crazy job!"
Please don't back-pedal in an update and tell me how incredibly awesome job is, because it sounds like total insanity and you come off as completely manipulated and abused. I know how difficult it can be to see the forest for the trees here, but besides temporary loss of a paycheck while you seek new employment, I don't see any downside to quitting or getting fired. This must be awful to deal with every day and I think the problem you can't square concerning your dignity is that the mea culpa you are proposing sounds like an exercise in brainwashing.
I used to have to perform apologies and groveling like you are proposing for my abusive BPD mother when I was in high school because I was a minor and knew that homeless teenagers don't usually make it very far in life. I had to grovel and hold on as an act of literal survival.
You are an adult. Nothing is stopping you from applying at new organizations and getting out of this hell hole of a workplace. Nothing is stopping you from seeking therapy to get clarity and help you undo the emotional damage this place is inflicting on you.
You can walk out any time. What are you waiting for?
posted by jbenben at 10:21 AM on April 18, 2015 [22 favorites]
You spend a really long time detailing one of the worst and most toxic workplace dynamics ever described on AskMe, then you end with the equivalent of, "This is all my fault and I need to make amends and keep this shitty crazy job!"
Please don't back-pedal in an update and tell me how incredibly awesome job is, because it sounds like total insanity and you come off as completely manipulated and abused. I know how difficult it can be to see the forest for the trees here, but besides temporary loss of a paycheck while you seek new employment, I don't see any downside to quitting or getting fired. This must be awful to deal with every day and I think the problem you can't square concerning your dignity is that the mea culpa you are proposing sounds like an exercise in brainwashing.
I used to have to perform apologies and groveling like you are proposing for my abusive BPD mother when I was in high school because I was a minor and knew that homeless teenagers don't usually make it very far in life. I had to grovel and hold on as an act of literal survival.
You are an adult. Nothing is stopping you from applying at new organizations and getting out of this hell hole of a workplace. Nothing is stopping you from seeking therapy to get clarity and help you undo the emotional damage this place is inflicting on you.
You can walk out any time. What are you waiting for?
posted by jbenben at 10:21 AM on April 18, 2015 [22 favorites]
In normal workplace environments, people don't shout at/lash out at/tangle with admins. All normal people blow up when they are abused and cornered, it's called defending yourself. If you worked in an environment providing services to customers who were unable to control themselves, like providing care services to people with brain injury or dementia, it would be appropriate to be given additional training for dealing with these sorts of confrontation, but if you work for a company that supplies non-life-saving products or services there is never, ever, ever a call for someone to freak out at you so badly they embarrass themselves and have to come back and apologize to you.
And you've been gaslit into believing it is your fault.
You work at a shitty place with shitty management, AND they're preparing to fire you. You need to get working on your applications to new jobs, and possibly counseling.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on April 18, 2015 [20 favorites]
And you've been gaslit into believing it is your fault.
You work at a shitty place with shitty management, AND they're preparing to fire you. You need to get working on your applications to new jobs, and possibly counseling.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on April 18, 2015 [20 favorites]
I think you have to choose if you want to be right or if you want to be effective. I've no doubt that your office is full of the usual dunderheads, but if you want to keep the job, then you need to find a way to express yourself in a direct but calm manner. Blowing up at people--even when your view is the correct one--is not a way to get people to do what you want them to do. I'd go to the seminar, pay attention, and while looking for a new gig, practice the skills and techniques taught in the seminar.
posted by Ideefixe at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm a pretty mild and warm person so when I do get really mad people are usually shocked and upset by my 'attitude'. This is a lifelong problem, I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong with you?
How do you act when you get really mad and "blow"? What is it you do that people are shocked and upset? It sounds like you maybe act out your anger in some way that seems over-the-top to some people. Yes it sounds like a toxic workplace, but if you are not good at managing the anger and frustration that comes with working there then I think the seminar might be useful to you. You have every right to be angry if people are being disrespectful to you, but you need to learn how to manage those feelings. Do you stay calm? Remove yourself from the situation? Acknowledge you're upset and refuse to be drawn into a battle? Or do you just explode or turn nasty? If it's the latter then you need to take responsibility for your own behaviour. You are "tangling" with several colleagues and complaints are being made against you. You do need to acknowledge your part in this, leaving aside others' shitty behaviour, because you can only be responsible for yourself.
I wouldn't go too overboard on apologising though, as clearly there are deep-rooted problems at the company. I'd maybe just say "I've been unhappy how some issues have been raised with me and how I've been spoken to. However I acknowledge that there may be areas where I could deal with those frustrations in a more productive way. I'll attend the seminar as I'd like to continue being a valuable member of this company and always appreciate any opportunity to grow as a person. Going forward, though, I do think there are communication channels which could be improved in the company as a whole and I would be happy to feed into any process which could improve things for all of us." So you're not scapegoating yourself, but you're saying that everyone can do better and you're willing to play your part.
posted by billiebee at 10:47 AM on April 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
How do you act when you get really mad and "blow"? What is it you do that people are shocked and upset? It sounds like you maybe act out your anger in some way that seems over-the-top to some people. Yes it sounds like a toxic workplace, but if you are not good at managing the anger and frustration that comes with working there then I think the seminar might be useful to you. You have every right to be angry if people are being disrespectful to you, but you need to learn how to manage those feelings. Do you stay calm? Remove yourself from the situation? Acknowledge you're upset and refuse to be drawn into a battle? Or do you just explode or turn nasty? If it's the latter then you need to take responsibility for your own behaviour. You are "tangling" with several colleagues and complaints are being made against you. You do need to acknowledge your part in this, leaving aside others' shitty behaviour, because you can only be responsible for yourself.
I wouldn't go too overboard on apologising though, as clearly there are deep-rooted problems at the company. I'd maybe just say "I've been unhappy how some issues have been raised with me and how I've been spoken to. However I acknowledge that there may be areas where I could deal with those frustrations in a more productive way. I'll attend the seminar as I'd like to continue being a valuable member of this company and always appreciate any opportunity to grow as a person. Going forward, though, I do think there are communication channels which could be improved in the company as a whole and I would be happy to feed into any process which could improve things for all of us." So you're not scapegoating yourself, but you're saying that everyone can do better and you're willing to play your part.
posted by billiebee at 10:47 AM on April 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
"I feel if I apologize too much I'm admitting it's my fault and I don't think any of these situations are my fault. I could react better but damn it how many times do I allow people to shit on me?"
You're an admin, in all honesty "being shit on" is part of the job. I get angry too, but this is the dynamics of the place that gives you money so you can stay alive. I apologize constantly because I am of lower status and can't get away with nuffin'. And I work with women, vs. you work with Alpha Males , which is even worse for that sort of thing.
In the end, I'm with brainmouse. Apologize up the wazoo, stay meek and mild, take every horrible thing dished out at you with a SMILE!, take the seminar, and do whatever you have to to hold onto the job for as long as you can until you can find another one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:54 AM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're an admin, in all honesty "being shit on" is part of the job. I get angry too, but this is the dynamics of the place that gives you money so you can stay alive. I apologize constantly because I am of lower status and can't get away with nuffin'. And I work with women, vs. you work with Alpha Males , which is even worse for that sort of thing.
In the end, I'm with brainmouse. Apologize up the wazoo, stay meek and mild, take every horrible thing dished out at you with a SMILE!, take the seminar, and do whatever you have to to hold onto the job for as long as you can until you can find another one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:54 AM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know and I know that they are now working on collecting a paper trail with an eye toward firing you.
Done. Period. Full Stop.
This place sounds like hell on earth and I would be dusting off my resume and getting out there and kissing babies and shaking hands. There's so much disfunction going on for so long, it sounds like you've got Stockholm Syndrome.
Put on your Big Girl Pants and get out of there now. Grab a competent anger management therapist and work toward taking care of that issue, but man - run, don't walk, out of that joint as soon as you can.
You deserve better. Keep telling yourself this. You deserve better.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:54 AM on April 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
Done. Period. Full Stop.
This place sounds like hell on earth and I would be dusting off my resume and getting out there and kissing babies and shaking hands. There's so much disfunction going on for so long, it sounds like you've got Stockholm Syndrome.
Put on your Big Girl Pants and get out of there now. Grab a competent anger management therapist and work toward taking care of that issue, but man - run, don't walk, out of that joint as soon as you can.
You deserve better. Keep telling yourself this. You deserve better.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:54 AM on April 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
Get out. You'll make your reasonable suggestions, you'll ask for clarity and help and support to make things better, and you'll be ignored. Because everything you're saying indicates that you are being managed by people who either can't or won't do their jobs. Bluntly put, they won't make things better because they're either too fucking thick to understand what needs to be done, or too fucking lazy to care. It will all go to shit soon enough, so unless you can see a way up and our inside the organisation, get out of it entirely.
posted by howfar at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by howfar at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Your question is how do you keep your job and your dignity. You don't. You can have this job, or you can have your dignity.
You got cornered in your office by a person who would not go away or stop yelling at you, and who then apparently called your director to complain about you, and you want to discuss with your leadership how you need to stop engaging? And you regularly get yelled at/derided by your (volunteer?) IT guy and disengage from him by hanging up, but then he calls your director to complain about you, and you want to discuss with your leadership about how you need to stop engaging? And now your assistant director is playing good cop by saying the bad cop director wanted to fire you but, instead, they're going to send you to anger management classes, while apparently taking no steps to fix the other problems in the organization/on your team? I don't think the problem is that you engage; I think the problem is the highly dysfunctional organization you work for.
What part of any of this do you really want to fix? What part do you think is going to get fixed? Do you really want to continue to be a part of this highly dysfunctional environment? In my experience, organizations don't change. It will take a complete cleaning house to change your organization, and that's unlikely to happen. You have five years in; that's a huge strength. Update your resume, freshen up your LinkedIn, line up your references, and find something better for yourself. Leave this place far, far behind, because it's not doing anything for you. And, yes, it sounds like they are covering their asses for when they fire you. Good luck.
posted by coast99 at 11:31 AM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
You got cornered in your office by a person who would not go away or stop yelling at you, and who then apparently called your director to complain about you, and you want to discuss with your leadership how you need to stop engaging? And you regularly get yelled at/derided by your (volunteer?) IT guy and disengage from him by hanging up, but then he calls your director to complain about you, and you want to discuss with your leadership about how you need to stop engaging? And now your assistant director is playing good cop by saying the bad cop director wanted to fire you but, instead, they're going to send you to anger management classes, while apparently taking no steps to fix the other problems in the organization/on your team? I don't think the problem is that you engage; I think the problem is the highly dysfunctional organization you work for.
What part of any of this do you really want to fix? What part do you think is going to get fixed? Do you really want to continue to be a part of this highly dysfunctional environment? In my experience, organizations don't change. It will take a complete cleaning house to change your organization, and that's unlikely to happen. You have five years in; that's a huge strength. Update your resume, freshen up your LinkedIn, line up your references, and find something better for yourself. Leave this place far, far behind, because it's not doing anything for you. And, yes, it sounds like they are covering their asses for when they fire you. Good luck.
posted by coast99 at 11:31 AM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It occurs to me that your ambivalent attitude may be stemming from the fact that you are empathising effectively with your colleagues, and realising that, a lot of the time, it's not a fundamental badness in them that is making them act so badly towards you.
I think the problem is that you are drawing the wrong conclusions from this. I think you may be concluding that the number of good people in this terrible office indicates that it can be fixed. I think it indicates the opposite. There are lots of good people and it's still a terrible place to work. To me, that indicates deep systemic problems that you have neither the power to fix, nor responsibility to try.
posted by howfar at 11:41 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think the problem is that you are drawing the wrong conclusions from this. I think you may be concluding that the number of good people in this terrible office indicates that it can be fixed. I think it indicates the opposite. There are lots of good people and it's still a terrible place to work. To me, that indicates deep systemic problems that you have neither the power to fix, nor responsibility to try.
posted by howfar at 11:41 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I think you should read this blog post which someone on AskMe linked me to a long time ago when I was battling with my own horrible job situation.
In my horror-job, management blamed us lowly peons for what was really a major leadership mistake. We were tasked with a project that didn't make sense for the company's goals, then given an impossible deadline and inexperienced management to lead the effort. We performed (in my opinion) extremely well considering our constraints, but I still got kicked around a lot after it all went pear-shaped. I felt like I had to stick it out after that to "prove" that I was good enough to work there and that this was a fluke, but then every subsequent project I was on had the same problem.
It took me a year to finally accept that it wasn't me. Looking back, I think I had a serious confidence problem. I wonder if you are experiencing the same thing. If you think that you are a poor employee or you have some misgivings about your career trajectory you're more likely to internalize what is actually an organizational problem.
And of course, some organizations insist that you are the source of all their problems, as you have discovered. Really what this boils down to IMHO is a form of abuse – emotional abuse in this case. Often people who have been subject to abuse feel they have internalized their mistreatment and believe they somehow deserve it. This pattern is no accident, it keeps the victim in the abusive relationship and allows the abuser to continue their behavior.
That's what it sounds like to me when I read "I need to let director know I'm aware I can improve my reactions to these situations". Really? Your reaction to your crazy abusive coworkers is the problem?
Man, fuck these people. Life is too short. I hope that you can see your way out of this dark maze and find a new job where you are treated with respect.
posted by deathpanels at 11:43 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
In my horror-job, management blamed us lowly peons for what was really a major leadership mistake. We were tasked with a project that didn't make sense for the company's goals, then given an impossible deadline and inexperienced management to lead the effort. We performed (in my opinion) extremely well considering our constraints, but I still got kicked around a lot after it all went pear-shaped. I felt like I had to stick it out after that to "prove" that I was good enough to work there and that this was a fluke, but then every subsequent project I was on had the same problem.
It took me a year to finally accept that it wasn't me. Looking back, I think I had a serious confidence problem. I wonder if you are experiencing the same thing. If you think that you are a poor employee or you have some misgivings about your career trajectory you're more likely to internalize what is actually an organizational problem.
And of course, some organizations insist that you are the source of all their problems, as you have discovered. Really what this boils down to IMHO is a form of abuse – emotional abuse in this case. Often people who have been subject to abuse feel they have internalized their mistreatment and believe they somehow deserve it. This pattern is no accident, it keeps the victim in the abusive relationship and allows the abuser to continue their behavior.
That's what it sounds like to me when I read "I need to let director know I'm aware I can improve my reactions to these situations". Really? Your reaction to your crazy abusive coworkers is the problem?
Man, fuck these people. Life is too short. I hope that you can see your way out of this dark maze and find a new job where you are treated with respect.
posted by deathpanels at 11:43 AM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: You're an admin. In the emotional and hierarchical logic of a workplace like this as far as these lizard-brains are concerned you don't have the right to be bitchy (or be otherwise self-assertive). You're a bit actor in the grand story of someone else's career arc.
In other words, I don't think it makes much sense to invest too much emotional energy in this place. Better to channel energy into finding a job - the right job - a place that's right for you.
posted by Nevin at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
In other words, I don't think it makes much sense to invest too much emotional energy in this place. Better to channel energy into finding a job - the right job - a place that's right for you.
posted by Nevin at 11:48 AM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure you have the soft skills for this job. Not trying to be mean, but that is the part that's not (and can't be) written in the job description. Dealing with difficult people. Anger management - not just your own, but managing other people's expectations and nudging them to constructive behavior. Being enough of a savvy political player to head off "I told you so" situations before they happen, and then graciously dealing with them when they do. Not putting up with disrespectful behavior while being able to de-escalate and give people face-saving outs.
Yes, it's crappy to be the under-appreciated overhead function in an environment of strong personalities and poor communication. But some people manage to do it without being a drama-amplifier and the common denominator of a lot of situations the director shouldn't have to be spending mental energy hearing about. Seriously, look how many times your director was involved in petty bullshit in your question. He probably just wants that to fucking stop in the quickest possible way.
So that's just the overall impression I'm getting from your question; obviously I'm not there.
posted by ctmf at 12:41 PM on April 18, 2015 [25 favorites]
Yes, it's crappy to be the under-appreciated overhead function in an environment of strong personalities and poor communication. But some people manage to do it without being a drama-amplifier and the common denominator of a lot of situations the director shouldn't have to be spending mental energy hearing about. Seriously, look how many times your director was involved in petty bullshit in your question. He probably just wants that to fucking stop in the quickest possible way.
So that's just the overall impression I'm getting from your question; obviously I'm not there.
posted by ctmf at 12:41 PM on April 18, 2015 [25 favorites]
I'm not sure you have the soft skills for this job.
And I don't mean that as a slam at all. Key word: this job, in this company. You might be just fine at the same job in a less dysfunctional environment. That's management's fault, but unfortunately your problem.
posted by ctmf at 12:48 PM on April 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
And I don't mean that as a slam at all. Key word: this job, in this company. You might be just fine at the same job in a less dysfunctional environment. That's management's fault, but unfortunately your problem.
posted by ctmf at 12:48 PM on April 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
Best answer: It's a pretty good job overall and there are many wonderful people at my location and main office who I admire and enjoy working with.
So that's a good reason to suck up things for now, take some of the excellent advice upthread for how to frame the situation to management, go to the seminar to see if you can learn anything useful and look like hell for a new job. Because you are 1000 times more employable now, with a job, than you will be without one. So don't walk away, yet. Find another job first and meanwhile learn everything you can for free, start cultivating contacts for networking, etc. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 1:14 PM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
So that's a good reason to suck up things for now, take some of the excellent advice upthread for how to frame the situation to management, go to the seminar to see if you can learn anything useful and look like hell for a new job. Because you are 1000 times more employable now, with a job, than you will be without one. So don't walk away, yet. Find another job first and meanwhile learn everything you can for free, start cultivating contacts for networking, etc. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 1:14 PM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know you're upset. I agree that this situation is a poor fit at best, utterly toxic at worst and that you should GTFO. But...
Your question reads like a crazy disorganized rant. It's a jumble of slights, lots of concerns about your "dignity," interpersonal relationship misfires, etc. It's high school redux when so many people, including you, leap to having the boss mediate their issues.
Does this text reflect how you speak, how you present your ideas and how you relate to people? Because if so, you're not putting your best foot forward. Work on being succinct, minding your boundaries, avoiding personalizing stuff that's just business, solving your own work problems, and trying to be very, very clear. Do that and your next job will go better. Good luck, and I mean that sincerely.
posted by carmicha at 1:20 PM on April 18, 2015 [34 favorites]
Your question reads like a crazy disorganized rant. It's a jumble of slights, lots of concerns about your "dignity," interpersonal relationship misfires, etc. It's high school redux when so many people, including you, leap to having the boss mediate their issues.
Does this text reflect how you speak, how you present your ideas and how you relate to people? Because if so, you're not putting your best foot forward. Work on being succinct, minding your boundaries, avoiding personalizing stuff that's just business, solving your own work problems, and trying to be very, very clear. Do that and your next job will go better. Good luck, and I mean that sincerely.
posted by carmicha at 1:20 PM on April 18, 2015 [34 favorites]
To follow to what others are saying: yes, you *could* just deal with all of this, and a lot of people do. But important nuances: a) you can "deal with it" without internalizing everything as a personal failure and then beating yourself up over it, as it seems you are doing in this post, and b) there are lots of other jobs and you may just not be the right person for this one. Some jobs just take seriously thick skin and are not for everyone. Just like not all relationships are "meant to be", you could just call this one a mistake and start looking for an exit.
posted by deathpanels at 1:52 PM on April 18, 2015
posted by deathpanels at 1:52 PM on April 18, 2015
It's really hard to tell based on your description whether this is the most dysfunctional sexist soul-draining employer ever, or if you're a person who is unaware that her reactions are seen as extreme and out-of control.
If I had to guess I'd say it's some of both. It sounds kind of like everyone else (i.e, all the men) in your office are allowed to act totally unprofessional, but you aren't (which is 100% sexist and unfair, but you shouldn't be ever acting unprofessionally, anyway.)
If I were you, I'd look for something else. Something totally different. Not all offices are yelling, blaming, offices. It would be so beyond inappropriate for these conflicts you've described to go down in every office where I've worked.
Please, please DO NOT call this meeting. You are setting yourself up to be cornered and criticized by angry authority figures, the exact dynamic that seems to set you off. I agree with others that having you attend anger management is the first step in letting you go. Then they can say, we gave her warnings, we gave her training, and the very next time you do something out of line (or something they choose to think is out of line), you are fired.
Don't work somewhere that wants to fire you. Keep your head down and look for something, anything else.
posted by kapers at 3:04 PM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
If I had to guess I'd say it's some of both. It sounds kind of like everyone else (i.e, all the men) in your office are allowed to act totally unprofessional, but you aren't (which is 100% sexist and unfair, but you shouldn't be ever acting unprofessionally, anyway.)
If I were you, I'd look for something else. Something totally different. Not all offices are yelling, blaming, offices. It would be so beyond inappropriate for these conflicts you've described to go down in every office where I've worked.
Please, please DO NOT call this meeting. You are setting yourself up to be cornered and criticized by angry authority figures, the exact dynamic that seems to set you off. I agree with others that having you attend anger management is the first step in letting you go. Then they can say, we gave her warnings, we gave her training, and the very next time you do something out of line (or something they choose to think is out of line), you are fired.
Don't work somewhere that wants to fire you. Keep your head down and look for something, anything else.
posted by kapers at 3:04 PM on April 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a pretty mild and warm person so when I do get really mad people are usually shocked and upset by my 'attitude'. This is a lifelong problem, I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong with you
It's possible you are genuinely reacting in a crazy way, like shouting swear words or charging at them with a stapler. But I doubt it.
What's a thousand times more likely is that these people are bullies who believe you to be an easy target. "wow what the hell is wrong with you" means, "Wait, I thought you were an easy target I could bully as much as I liked."
I don't know if it's too late for this job or not, but offices can be a lot like the schoolyard. Always better to stand up to bullies sooner than later. If that gets you labelled "abrasive" or whatever, that's still better than being seen as a pushover.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:31 PM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's possible you are genuinely reacting in a crazy way, like shouting swear words or charging at them with a stapler. But I doubt it.
What's a thousand times more likely is that these people are bullies who believe you to be an easy target. "wow what the hell is wrong with you" means, "Wait, I thought you were an easy target I could bully as much as I liked."
I don't know if it's too late for this job or not, but offices can be a lot like the schoolyard. Always better to stand up to bullies sooner than later. If that gets you labelled "abrasive" or whatever, that's still better than being seen as a pushover.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:31 PM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Let me give you a scenario:
I was once an admin at a corporate office. It went down like this:
Boss A: We want to see you succeed. Go to training, but attend to my personal needs.
Boss's Boss: You are peon. Said in front of me while talking to another manager.
Other Admins: You are too above yourself. You need to sort mail for the entire floor (despite the fact that I supported 20 people and they all supported 1, and my department had nothing to do with their department).
Boss A: Why are you sorting mail for the entire floor? You are MY admin!
Tech/IT Guy: I'll get to it tomorrow. I go to find him and he's back in his hidey hole, looking at naked women in prison online. Ha-ha! So funny. I'll get to you tomorrow.
Boss A: Why isn't your printer hooked up yet?
Admins: Why do you need a private printer? We share a printer here. Why are you so special that you get a printer at your desk? Hmmmmm?
Boss A: My stuff is private and I don't want it to be shared.
Me: WTF?
And that was just my first week.
After that, it was varying amounts of abuse. Boss A finally left the country and the guy left in charge had no power. I was doing 4 jobs for the price of one, admin, graphic and web design, housing for visiting employees, along with doing their visas and such, processing invoices, doing expense reports, international travel arrangement, meeting arrangement, PowerPoint presentations, petty cash disbursals, along with the company-mandated reports, preparing employee evaluations for my boss's direct reports, setting up international conference calls, etc. all while maintaining my friendly personality. And another IT guy who was quite rude. And some rando's, who would drop in from another state or country and some would be nice and one guy who said, "why are YOU doing web design?" with a look on his face like he'd just picked up a dirty diaper. Then, when I finally got my own cube, yay! And I was doing what my original Boss A and his managerial report wanted me to do, the VP (aka The Director) walked by one day and said, "what the hell is she doing there?" And they had to tell me that I had to go back to my secretarial station with the counter, because god forbid I could be advanced there, that guy (who had called us all peons) didn't like it.
I finally left under a nervous breakdown. I didn't really talk back or complain that much, I just kept slogging away, the horse going after the carrot on the stick, and you know what? I never got the carrot. What I got was a giant shit sandwich, and a bunch of people telling me to eat it, eat it! It tastes so good, just try a bite!
You know what? Shit sandwich does not taste good. In fact, it tastes like shit. So if you are working in a shitty environment, there is no fake rose on earth that is going to turn it into corned beef on rye. Get the hell out and get the hell out now, that is my advice, take it or leave it, but I am not going to try and feed you a shit sandwich and tell you it tastes good. Anger management indeed, ha-ha. It sounds like a sewer. I'd be pissed off too if I had to work in a sewer, but I am smart enough now not to go back there. I wish you well, and please excuse the vernacular.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:00 PM on April 18, 2015 [15 favorites]
I was once an admin at a corporate office. It went down like this:
Boss A: We want to see you succeed. Go to training, but attend to my personal needs.
Boss's Boss: You are peon. Said in front of me while talking to another manager.
Other Admins: You are too above yourself. You need to sort mail for the entire floor (despite the fact that I supported 20 people and they all supported 1, and my department had nothing to do with their department).
Boss A: Why are you sorting mail for the entire floor? You are MY admin!
Tech/IT Guy: I'll get to it tomorrow. I go to find him and he's back in his hidey hole, looking at naked women in prison online. Ha-ha! So funny. I'll get to you tomorrow.
Boss A: Why isn't your printer hooked up yet?
Admins: Why do you need a private printer? We share a printer here. Why are you so special that you get a printer at your desk? Hmmmmm?
Boss A: My stuff is private and I don't want it to be shared.
Me: WTF?
And that was just my first week.
After that, it was varying amounts of abuse. Boss A finally left the country and the guy left in charge had no power. I was doing 4 jobs for the price of one, admin, graphic and web design, housing for visiting employees, along with doing their visas and such, processing invoices, doing expense reports, international travel arrangement, meeting arrangement, PowerPoint presentations, petty cash disbursals, along with the company-mandated reports, preparing employee evaluations for my boss's direct reports, setting up international conference calls, etc. all while maintaining my friendly personality. And another IT guy who was quite rude. And some rando's, who would drop in from another state or country and some would be nice and one guy who said, "why are YOU doing web design?" with a look on his face like he'd just picked up a dirty diaper. Then, when I finally got my own cube, yay! And I was doing what my original Boss A and his managerial report wanted me to do, the VP (aka The Director) walked by one day and said, "what the hell is she doing there?" And they had to tell me that I had to go back to my secretarial station with the counter, because god forbid I could be advanced there, that guy (who had called us all peons) didn't like it.
I finally left under a nervous breakdown. I didn't really talk back or complain that much, I just kept slogging away, the horse going after the carrot on the stick, and you know what? I never got the carrot. What I got was a giant shit sandwich, and a bunch of people telling me to eat it, eat it! It tastes so good, just try a bite!
You know what? Shit sandwich does not taste good. In fact, it tastes like shit. So if you are working in a shitty environment, there is no fake rose on earth that is going to turn it into corned beef on rye. Get the hell out and get the hell out now, that is my advice, take it or leave it, but I am not going to try and feed you a shit sandwich and tell you it tastes good. Anger management indeed, ha-ha. It sounds like a sewer. I'd be pissed off too if I had to work in a sewer, but I am smart enough now not to go back there. I wish you well, and please excuse the vernacular.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:00 PM on April 18, 2015 [15 favorites]
You've said yourself that this is a life-long problem for you. I feel you - I used to do this exact same thing. Turns out I had untreated PTSD. I was also young and intelligent and female and stuck in dead-end, mediocre jobs I hated. And the way I handled the anger I felt at being talked down to and underestimated and treated as if I were less-than was piss poor because I had PTSD.
I've since had years of therapy and know how to diplomatically go about taking care of business. Learning how to identify what I want, negotiate for it in a positive, good-faith manner, and resolving conflict if and when it arises (rarely) in a fair and good-humored way has literally changed my life.
Let me ask you something. How often do you feel ANGRY? If you feel angry many times a day, if you feel yourself going over every little interaction, picking out the slights, stewing over them for hours, rehearsing in your mind what you would have said if you'd had the chance, then that's not normal or healthy, and that right there - separate and apart from how it's affecting your job - is enough to justify taking these guys up on the offer to go to this anger management seminar on their dime. Not just because you're in danger of losing your livelihood, but because being angry all the time, every day, over things that ultimately do not matter in the grand scheme is no way to live.
jaguar's said it succinctly and clearly. You know you have a problem. Someone is offering to help you.
I'd also like to ask if you thanked your Asst Director for going to bat for you. Because normally these scenarios play out with a warning or two, then you get called in for a meeting that ends with you packing your desk at the end of the day. And this didn't. Because of his intervention with the Director, you have a shot. And you say that you....laughed, and then went on about the Director, he lied, I have e-mails...whu? No. You missed the point. This person had your back. You have a shot because this person went to bat for you with their boss. Once you've dealt with some of the anger you're walking around with you'll see how clouded your judgment is here.
I wish you the best of luck. You can learn other ways to express yourself and get respect. And, ultimately, you ARE better than this job. We all are. Regardless, learning how to effectively communicate and resolve conflict is the difference between happiness and misery in many aspects of life, not just work.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 6:52 PM on April 18, 2015 [11 favorites]
I've since had years of therapy and know how to diplomatically go about taking care of business. Learning how to identify what I want, negotiate for it in a positive, good-faith manner, and resolving conflict if and when it arises (rarely) in a fair and good-humored way has literally changed my life.
Let me ask you something. How often do you feel ANGRY? If you feel angry many times a day, if you feel yourself going over every little interaction, picking out the slights, stewing over them for hours, rehearsing in your mind what you would have said if you'd had the chance, then that's not normal or healthy, and that right there - separate and apart from how it's affecting your job - is enough to justify taking these guys up on the offer to go to this anger management seminar on their dime. Not just because you're in danger of losing your livelihood, but because being angry all the time, every day, over things that ultimately do not matter in the grand scheme is no way to live.
jaguar's said it succinctly and clearly. You know you have a problem. Someone is offering to help you.
I'd also like to ask if you thanked your Asst Director for going to bat for you. Because normally these scenarios play out with a warning or two, then you get called in for a meeting that ends with you packing your desk at the end of the day. And this didn't. Because of his intervention with the Director, you have a shot. And you say that you....laughed, and then went on about the Director, he lied, I have e-mails...whu? No. You missed the point. This person had your back. You have a shot because this person went to bat for you with their boss. Once you've dealt with some of the anger you're walking around with you'll see how clouded your judgment is here.
I wish you the best of luck. You can learn other ways to express yourself and get respect. And, ultimately, you ARE better than this job. We all are. Regardless, learning how to effectively communicate and resolve conflict is the difference between happiness and misery in many aspects of life, not just work.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 6:52 PM on April 18, 2015 [11 favorites]
Excellent advice upthread, & I'm also in the camp of maybe this isn't the job for you. Hopefully, I can explain this in a way that's helpful & not upsetting. So, please know I feel for you & your situation. I believe you have a lot to offer & you are dealing with some difficult people, but that's only a part of the puzzle. I don't want any of this to come of as harsh, but I think you are best served by honesty. It's hard to tell exactly who's at fault in these examples, but this is my reaction based on the information given.
In your post, & apparently during these conflicts, you comment on other people's tones a lot & how they speak to you. Maybe they really are speaking extremely poorly to you or maybe your perception of how derogatory they are being is off a bit. I'm guessing it falls somewhere in-between, & this is a personal trigger for you. Keep in mind, some jobs mean you often aren't spoken to with the respect you feel you deserve. Being an admin falls under that umbrella. If you can't or don't want to deal with that, you need a new employer, new profession, or both. I also think you may need to improve your conflict resolution skills.
I'm particularly struck by the IT guy example. He called & apologized, clearly tail between his legs. Now, if I'm following this correctly, you accepted his apology, but then felt compelled to educate him on what you felt was the bigger problem (how he treated you, which apparently he realized or he wouldn't have been apologizing) and went onto criticize his performance and how it affects the business as a whole. You should have stopped at thanking him for the apology and then waited to see if future interactions improved. He knew what he did was wrong. You've made assumptions about what happened in those 10 minutes between the bad interaction & the phone call. He may have hung up fuming, checked himself, & did something a lot of people won't do, actually called you & apologized. He also may have complained to someone or maybe someone overheard & asked what that was all about, & it was pointed out he was in the wrong, & he agreed. You just don't know &, ultimately, whether he did it on his own or because someone told him to doesn't really matter. For your career, what matters is how you received his apology, & from the sounds of it, not very well, which means the dynamic probably deteriorated further, when your co-worker was trying to improve it.
I'm stunned by your reaction to your assistant director's conversation with you. It's always difficult to receive feedback like this and retain your composure, but each response you describe was unprofessional and ungracious. You are incredibly lucky that you have someone in your corner who prevented you from being fired immediately & is kind enough to take you to an off-site lunch to discuss this issue rather than call you into a formal meeting in the office, which certainly would have been noticed by some, if not all, of your co-workers. Your response to the first complaint saying the director, who is the head honcho, is "lying because you and I both know if there were any proof he'd have brought it out to rub my nose in," is a jaw-dropper. You want to think that? Go ahead, & it could very well be true. To many, however, that would sound defensive and disrespectful. A better response would have been something like, "That doesn't seem correct because I keep all my emails from the director & never saw anything about this change, but now that I know, I'm taking steps to implement it immediately."
Honestly, I'm not surprised he didn't have much to say after that & was vague about some coworker complaints that you were unaware of until now. You probably didn't receive much detail about this in part to protect those coworkers & because they never became formal issues. You also weren't told more probably because you were coming across as defensive and unwilling to consider that there might be some value in what was being said. Then, you tell someone who is trying to help you, "I'll go to your seminar but there is no seminar that will make me allow people to speak to me rudely." Again, that's fine to think in the moment, but, in the long-run, it seems like counterproductive thinking. When you say it aloud, it sounds like your mind is closed. Externally, you seem hyper-focused on how people speak to you, and appear to think that's the only issue, when it clearly isn't. As you have relayed it, I don't see any ownership in this conversation with the assistant director. If I were him, I probably would have been rethinking my going to bat for you. You exhibited the exact behaviors that apparently have become a significant issue.
My vote is that you go to the anger management seminar with an open-mind & take what you can from it. Afterwards, thank your assistant director for the seminar & say something positive about it, even if it's something as generic as, "it was really interesting." Do not initiate any meetings or suggest improvements. Instead, try to incorporate this feedback the best you can, keep your head down & your eyes on your own paper while you start looking for a new job. You probably can't make a major career change so quickly, so try doing similar work at a different company. This should confirm whether it's the job for you. If it's not, figure out what is, take steps to make that a reality while still working at your new job, & go from there. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 10:09 AM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
In your post, & apparently during these conflicts, you comment on other people's tones a lot & how they speak to you. Maybe they really are speaking extremely poorly to you or maybe your perception of how derogatory they are being is off a bit. I'm guessing it falls somewhere in-between, & this is a personal trigger for you. Keep in mind, some jobs mean you often aren't spoken to with the respect you feel you deserve. Being an admin falls under that umbrella. If you can't or don't want to deal with that, you need a new employer, new profession, or both. I also think you may need to improve your conflict resolution skills.
I'm particularly struck by the IT guy example. He called & apologized, clearly tail between his legs. Now, if I'm following this correctly, you accepted his apology, but then felt compelled to educate him on what you felt was the bigger problem (how he treated you, which apparently he realized or he wouldn't have been apologizing) and went onto criticize his performance and how it affects the business as a whole. You should have stopped at thanking him for the apology and then waited to see if future interactions improved. He knew what he did was wrong. You've made assumptions about what happened in those 10 minutes between the bad interaction & the phone call. He may have hung up fuming, checked himself, & did something a lot of people won't do, actually called you & apologized. He also may have complained to someone or maybe someone overheard & asked what that was all about, & it was pointed out he was in the wrong, & he agreed. You just don't know &, ultimately, whether he did it on his own or because someone told him to doesn't really matter. For your career, what matters is how you received his apology, & from the sounds of it, not very well, which means the dynamic probably deteriorated further, when your co-worker was trying to improve it.
I'm stunned by your reaction to your assistant director's conversation with you. It's always difficult to receive feedback like this and retain your composure, but each response you describe was unprofessional and ungracious. You are incredibly lucky that you have someone in your corner who prevented you from being fired immediately & is kind enough to take you to an off-site lunch to discuss this issue rather than call you into a formal meeting in the office, which certainly would have been noticed by some, if not all, of your co-workers. Your response to the first complaint saying the director, who is the head honcho, is "lying because you and I both know if there were any proof he'd have brought it out to rub my nose in," is a jaw-dropper. You want to think that? Go ahead, & it could very well be true. To many, however, that would sound defensive and disrespectful. A better response would have been something like, "That doesn't seem correct because I keep all my emails from the director & never saw anything about this change, but now that I know, I'm taking steps to implement it immediately."
Honestly, I'm not surprised he didn't have much to say after that & was vague about some coworker complaints that you were unaware of until now. You probably didn't receive much detail about this in part to protect those coworkers & because they never became formal issues. You also weren't told more probably because you were coming across as defensive and unwilling to consider that there might be some value in what was being said. Then, you tell someone who is trying to help you, "I'll go to your seminar but there is no seminar that will make me allow people to speak to me rudely." Again, that's fine to think in the moment, but, in the long-run, it seems like counterproductive thinking. When you say it aloud, it sounds like your mind is closed. Externally, you seem hyper-focused on how people speak to you, and appear to think that's the only issue, when it clearly isn't. As you have relayed it, I don't see any ownership in this conversation with the assistant director. If I were him, I probably would have been rethinking my going to bat for you. You exhibited the exact behaviors that apparently have become a significant issue.
My vote is that you go to the anger management seminar with an open-mind & take what you can from it. Afterwards, thank your assistant director for the seminar & say something positive about it, even if it's something as generic as, "it was really interesting." Do not initiate any meetings or suggest improvements. Instead, try to incorporate this feedback the best you can, keep your head down & your eyes on your own paper while you start looking for a new job. You probably can't make a major career change so quickly, so try doing similar work at a different company. This should confirm whether it's the job for you. If it's not, figure out what is, take steps to make that a reality while still working at your new job, & go from there. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 10:09 AM on April 19, 2015 [7 favorites]
When you talk about how disrespectful your co-workers are being towards you, I notice you never say anything specific about what was so rude. It's not as if they called you a bitch or worthless and screamed at you, right? Sometimes work gets tense, especially in a dysfunctional organization where everyone is always running into problems that affect multiple team members. Maybe you are taking things personally when you shouldn't, and maybe your reaction is why they think you need anger management? I think probably if you were being disrespected, your reaction would be fine, but maybe the problem is that you aren't being disrespected. This may be less an issue about managing your anger and more an issue of being too sensitive and taking things too personally.
I worked in a place where people being negative and kind of rude was just the way it worked. It was toxic and I eventually left, but I got a lot further when I just ignored it the fact that the guys (yes, I was the only woman) were dicks (to me, and everyone else) and just focused on my work. If my boss wanted to rant about something, I'd say "ok, boss" and end the conversation because anything else I had to say only prolonged it and made it worse. Anything I had to say, valid or not, gave him more fuel to rant about. Being "right" doesn't matter in an organization like that. After many fruitless attempts of trying to set better processes and communication, I realized it would never happen and I just needed to deal with it, and anything going on that I didn't know about wasn't my problem.
If I were you, I would go to the seminar. Going forward, I would try to communicate over email as much as possible so you have the opportunity to think before you react, and also so maybe you can avoid some of these problematic conversations that don't sound vital to work at all -- some of these phone conversations sound like griping because someone is on the other end of the phone, which serves no one and probably wouldn't happen over email. I would also think more about "is this person belittling me or is this person merely frustrated" when dealing with tense work situations. If there is situation where someone is attacking you, end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow after we've had some time to brainstorm how to solve this issue. I have to leave for another conference call. Talk to you tomorrow, bye."
You are better off thanking your supervisor for the anger management seminar, admitting you could communicate better, and vowing to do so moving forward. If there is a problem with an employee, I feel a lot better when they acknowledge it and vow to fix it than argue it isn't actually a problem. You won't get anywhere by acting like you've done nothing wrong, even if it was the truth.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:05 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I worked in a place where people being negative and kind of rude was just the way it worked. It was toxic and I eventually left, but I got a lot further when I just ignored it the fact that the guys (yes, I was the only woman) were dicks (to me, and everyone else) and just focused on my work. If my boss wanted to rant about something, I'd say "ok, boss" and end the conversation because anything else I had to say only prolonged it and made it worse. Anything I had to say, valid or not, gave him more fuel to rant about. Being "right" doesn't matter in an organization like that. After many fruitless attempts of trying to set better processes and communication, I realized it would never happen and I just needed to deal with it, and anything going on that I didn't know about wasn't my problem.
If I were you, I would go to the seminar. Going forward, I would try to communicate over email as much as possible so you have the opportunity to think before you react, and also so maybe you can avoid some of these problematic conversations that don't sound vital to work at all -- some of these phone conversations sound like griping because someone is on the other end of the phone, which serves no one and probably wouldn't happen over email. I would also think more about "is this person belittling me or is this person merely frustrated" when dealing with tense work situations. If there is situation where someone is attacking you, end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow after we've had some time to brainstorm how to solve this issue. I have to leave for another conference call. Talk to you tomorrow, bye."
You are better off thanking your supervisor for the anger management seminar, admitting you could communicate better, and vowing to do so moving forward. If there is a problem with an employee, I feel a lot better when they acknowledge it and vow to fix it than argue it isn't actually a problem. You won't get anywhere by acting like you've done nothing wrong, even if it was the truth.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:05 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It was interesting to read your letter. I noticed that whenever you found yourself in a conflict, you tried to take the high road. Like: when your co-worker was giving you grief, they left, and you did not call the boss. You're okay by me.
This leads me to believe that your workplace is exceptionally toxic. For whatever reason, you seem inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. I wonder if some people are taking this as a sign that you're an easy victim.
As others have mentioned, there may indeed be a movement afoot to get you fired. Since, frankly, it sounds like you'd best be rid of this place, I wonder if you might want to take the upper hand and negotiate some kind of deal where you leave or accept a lay-off in exchange for a good reference and/or eligibility for unemployment. A serious step, I realize, but one that you may wish to consider.
> I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered
> blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong
> with you? You've never acted like this etc.
Heh. I'm much the same way. Some people mistake "having a long fuse" with "being a pushover". So when they finally cross the line, it's a surprise to them[1]. One thing that you may wish to look into is doing a little role-playing to ensure that your reaction is appropriate. If it's a bit extreme, maybe you should consider reigning it in a bit. And if it's not, it can be a comfort to know that. Especially when you experience a conflict, and in the aftermath the other person tries to paint you as "out of control".
[1] But also a valuable lesson because in general, the people who are difficult to piss off tend to be the people you don't want to piss off.
posted by doctor tough love at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2015
This leads me to believe that your workplace is exceptionally toxic. For whatever reason, you seem inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. I wonder if some people are taking this as a sign that you're an easy victim.
As others have mentioned, there may indeed be a movement afoot to get you fired. Since, frankly, it sounds like you'd best be rid of this place, I wonder if you might want to take the upper hand and negotiate some kind of deal where you leave or accept a lay-off in exchange for a good reference and/or eligibility for unemployment. A serious step, I realize, but one that you may wish to consider.
> I let stuff roll of my back forever then when cornered
> blow and the other person says wow what the hell is wrong
> with you? You've never acted like this etc.
Heh. I'm much the same way. Some people mistake "having a long fuse" with "being a pushover". So when they finally cross the line, it's a surprise to them[1]. One thing that you may wish to look into is doing a little role-playing to ensure that your reaction is appropriate. If it's a bit extreme, maybe you should consider reigning it in a bit. And if it's not, it can be a comfort to know that. Especially when you experience a conflict, and in the aftermath the other person tries to paint you as "out of control".
[1] But also a valuable lesson because in general, the people who are difficult to piss off tend to be the people you don't want to piss off.
posted by doctor tough love at 11:24 AM on April 19, 2015
Best answer: I have a week while director and asst. are out of town to think this through.
If they're together, be proactive and send them (or at least the assistant director) an email saying that you're going to attend the anger management seminar and address your shortcomings. Reaffirm your commitment to the enterprise and thank him for the opportunity.
Why? Because they're going to be talking about you. Right now the assistant doesn't have a good story to tell. Help him look good to the big boss because you seem to be coming around. Change the narrative.
And resist the temptation to re-litigate any of the above. Keep it short and sweet.
posted by carmicha at 11:28 AM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If they're together, be proactive and send them (or at least the assistant director) an email saying that you're going to attend the anger management seminar and address your shortcomings. Reaffirm your commitment to the enterprise and thank him for the opportunity.
Why? Because they're going to be talking about you. Right now the assistant doesn't have a good story to tell. Help him look good to the big boss because you seem to be coming around. Change the narrative.
And resist the temptation to re-litigate any of the above. Keep it short and sweet.
posted by carmicha at 11:28 AM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the helpful replies, I know my question was rambling, I was all over the place as I tried to describe the problems going on. I was upset and so defensive. I'm certainly partially at fault. I decided to attend the seminar after having a long talk w/a lady at the main office who has gotten more than the average ration of shit from upper mgmt in the past and come out fine in the end. She was sent to one a couple yrs ago and says she has used the skills to her advantage and to the chagrin of director many times since so that's a plus.
I don't think they're getting ready to fire me, one has to pretty much commit murder to get canned from this workplace, which is good and bad for me. I will ask for a meeting w/my boss and the asst and director to clear the air, just because I don't want this hanging over my head in future interactions. Truly most of my problems stem from the lack of communication from main office, and there's not one person to blame, well except maybe the director who I feel sets the tone for how we communicate and handle problems that come up, but I know I can't say that, so will use some more positive language like how busy he is and how I can react in future to avoid these problems. And yes some of these people enjoy being dicks, lucky for me they mostly bully the coworkers in the main office. I'm left out of most of it and that's fine by me.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 4:08 PM on April 22, 2015
I don't think they're getting ready to fire me, one has to pretty much commit murder to get canned from this workplace, which is good and bad for me. I will ask for a meeting w/my boss and the asst and director to clear the air, just because I don't want this hanging over my head in future interactions. Truly most of my problems stem from the lack of communication from main office, and there's not one person to blame, well except maybe the director who I feel sets the tone for how we communicate and handle problems that come up, but I know I can't say that, so will use some more positive language like how busy he is and how I can react in future to avoid these problems. And yes some of these people enjoy being dicks, lucky for me they mostly bully the coworkers in the main office. I'm left out of most of it and that's fine by me.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 4:08 PM on April 22, 2015
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posted by brainmouse at 10:03 AM on April 18, 2015 [17 favorites]