Smokers and non-smokers living in the same apartment building?

April 8, 2015 1:58 PM

I live in an apartment building where smoking is allowed in individual apartment units, just not in the hallways or common areas. I smoke a few cigarettes and have a glass of wine when I get home at night, and about 1/3 of the tenants in the building are also smokers who smoke in their apartments. It's just one of these low-cost, kind of dirty apartment buildings occupied mostly by college-age kids. Two days ago, a family with a newborn baby moved in above me. They left me note this morning telling me that they will not tolerate me smoking in my own apartment because they are concerned for their baby's health...

I can certainly understand being concerned for the baby's health, but it's hard for me to understand why they would move into apartments like these with a newborn and expect the tenants to just stop living their lives normally because a baby is now in the building.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to approach this. Of course, I wouldn't want to mess up their baby's health or anything, but I also don't want to change my life around for them. And really, am I sort of astonished they would move into a building that allows smoking when there are many comparatively priced apartments in the area with no-smoking policies. But, I don't want to have some weird tension with them, either. From my side or from their side.

How would you approach this if you were me? Thanks!

posted by foxinthesnow to Human Relations (63 answers total)

If you have a lease that allows you to smoke in your apartment, then you can smoke in your apartment.

I would reply by writing on the back of their note, "welcome to the building. My lease does allow smoking in my apartment but I am careful to abide by the rule about not smoking in common areas" - and giving it back to them.

I would also photocopy the front and back to send to your landlord as an FYI, just so you have "first contact" on the issue.
posted by headnsouth at 2:06 PM on April 8, 2015 [49 favorites]

I would ignore them. Radio silence. Let them escalate, if they want, and you can deal with it then. But if you're actually allowed to smoke in the building, and it's not violating any local laws or regulations to do so, then yep, they should have thought of that before they moved in and you really don't have to do a thing. If they confront you, you can politely tell them that you're not violating any rules or laws, and just leave it there.

(p.s. I don't smoke, so no axe to grind, but I agree with you that the world doesn't stop because these two have a kid now. And assuming that "will not tolerate" is a direct quotation and not a paraphrase, I will admit I have a hard time with that sort of sense of entitlement.)
posted by holborne at 2:07 PM on April 8, 2015 [30 favorites]

I just wrote out a response similar to headnsouth. I would be polite in the note, and tell them you are sorry they were apparently unaware that smoking is allowed inside individual apartments, but that you chose this apartment based on the fact you are allowed to smoke.
posted by Glinn at 2:10 PM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]

You might get an air filter for your place. They're inexpensive, they can be quiet enough, and they might be just enough to keep the smell from reaching the neighbors. I get what you're saying about the adult neighbors, but why not go ahead and change your life around a little bit for a baby?
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:16 PM on April 8, 2015 [5 favorites]

I am not a smoker. Neither do I want smoke blown in my face.
However I dislike anti smoke fanatics. Ignore them...
posted by Mac-Expert at 2:17 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I am a smoker, and if your smoke can get into their apartment, their request is reasonable.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:21 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

"Will not tolerate" is very strong language. It's because of this that I'd be in favor of a gentle but firm reply as headnsouth suggests, rather than simply ignoring them. Ignoring them invites them to continue to bother you and/or escalate; politely pointing out that they're mistaken about your obligations is likely to be a necessary step in the future if you don't do it now, so may as well start promptly.

If their actual wording was less adamant/rude, then maybe ignore.

If you'd be willing to work with them on mitigation (filters, do they prefer that you open the window, or does that waft directly into their window, etc) then this note would be the place to suggest that.
posted by aimedwander at 2:25 PM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

If smoke is getting into their apartment, that is a structural issue for the landlord to deal with.

This is between them and the landlord, if it is between them and anyone. Your lease allows smoking. That's the end of it on your side.
posted by jbenben at 2:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [39 favorites]

Sounds like they weren't prepared for the way smoke travels. I agree with putting your own polite note on the back of theirs and returning it - but I'd also connect with the landlord to let him or her know that they are immediately unhappy, that you aren't doing anything contrary to your lease, and maybe some slack could be cut for these folks if the building is not a good fit. (i.e. a quick move)
posted by juniperesque at 2:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Was the note specifically for you? or was it the kind of note that maybe everyone one floor up /down got? I'm in a building now that doesn't allow smoking but I can smell in the hall and lift lobby that someone on my floor smokes cigarettes and sometimes pot but I have no idea which apartment the smell is from and I certainly wouldn't know if people on other floors are smoking. They might not even know its you and unless they can see you smoking, they have no way to know for sure.

Just ignore them. You're not doing anything wrong and if they don't want to tolerate dangers to their baby's health, then its up to them to get a filter or move or whatever.
posted by stellathon at 2:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

(Another thought picking up on what Mo Nickels said: you could ask the landlord if they'll get the new people an air filter; that might be something a landlord is willing to do, and actually, will probably be more effective than putting one in your apartment.

And if the smoke is getting into their apartment, that's a structural problem with the HVAC system or the building itself, not your problem. That's something they also should be taking up with the landlord, not another tenant abiding by the terms of his lease. On preview, what jbenben said.)
posted by holborne at 2:26 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

You're at a loss of what to do because your neighbor made a faux pas: They should not have contacted you to begin with. They should have contacted the property manager. You're acting well within your rights.

I'm not a smoker, but I live in a set of apartments where smoking is allowed and I was aware of this policy when I moved in (it's actually in my lease). If a little smoke gets in from, say, the hallway, then that's something I have to live with. But if it's strong, the property manager might be able to make some mitigations like sealing cracks, replacing filters, putting in a HEPA filter, etc.
posted by mochapickle at 2:27 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I'd work on the assumption that statistically significant amounts of smoke are not making their way into the neighbor's apartment and that they're just being overprotective at the expense of being neighborly.

Play dumb and deflect. Ask them something to the effect of whether the landlord made them aware of the building's smoking policy when they viewed the unit. Suggest they speak to him/her about air filtration options they can have installed in their unit. As a nod to being a good neighbor, ask where they baby sleeps and say you'll avoid smoking out of the window directly below.
posted by mkultra at 2:29 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

If you're inclined to, say, not smoke in the room under the baby, or wherever, you could try to problem solve with them "oh your baby is in this room? i can try to avoid smoking there and i'll smoke in another room". But you aren't under any obligation to change. Still, being flexible is awesome and neighborly.
posted by andreapandrea at 2:31 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Given the tone of their note (an out-of-line demand, not a neighborly request), I'd go to the landlord before even responding to them in any way. See what the landlord suggests. If they agree to handle it, as is their job, great. Ignore the note. If the landlord agrees you're in the right, but doesn't offer to do anything for or at least talk to the neighbors, you will have to deal with them yourself and the suggestion of a note in response is good.

Who's to say you are the culprit, anyhow? My neighbor from three units away's smoke travels directly into my window sometimes and the smell nauseates me, but I wouldn't dream of insisting they not smoke in their home.
posted by kapers at 2:39 PM on April 8, 2015 [9 favorites]

I'm a little surprised by all of the "just ignore them" responses. Maybe it's a product of a small-town upbringing, but if your neighbor is communicating with you, it's pretty rude to just ignore them. Sure, they could have been more diplomatic in their request, but ignoring the request outright seems like a jerky move as well. I like headsouth's note and would go that route. Or, you know, speak to them. Or both.

Another option: consider a conversation that looks for solutions to the problem other than you stop smoking in your apartment. Maybe they'll spring for an air filter in your apartment -- would you accept that sort of a compromise?
posted by craven_morhead at 2:39 PM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

Want to add that if you make the mistake of interacting with them on this issue, they will likely never stop complaing to you about whatever comes up and make your life miserable.

They should have contacted the landlord from the beginning. Stay out of this conflict as best you can.
posted by jbenben at 2:44 PM on April 8, 2015 [16 favorites]

I have never smoked, absolutely hate the smell of smoke, and have lived through the agony of living in an apartment above a smoker. Despite all that, I want to throw another vote in to say they're being unreasonable. If they knew they were moving into a building where smoking is allowed, they forfeited their right to complain about people smoking. If they somehow didn't know, that's something they need to take up with the landlord, not you.
posted by primethyme at 2:47 PM on April 8, 2015 [13 favorites]

Oh, and whatever you do, don't question them about their choice of apartment building even though we're all doing so (nobody wants to feel like an idiot or a bad parent.) You never know, this could have been the only building that accepted aid money or let them use a co-signer or something. Stick to the facts so you don't inadvertently start a war.
posted by kapers at 2:47 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]

I also agree that just ignoring the note is extremely rude and unnecessary. They should not have said "will not tolerate", but spoken to you about this in a way asking for your possible favor and consideration ( since you're allowed to smoke in your apartment). However, it still seems at this point you can still try to be neighborly with them, if you are willing to implement changes and try solutions(open window, close window, get an air filter, etc). Also, speaking to your landlord makes sense as well. I'm not saying they have a right to tell you not to smoke, I'm saying that maybe there is a lot more that can be done about this, and being on their side too makes sense.
posted by Blitz at 2:48 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

What could they mean by "will not tolerate" - --what are they threatening to do to you? If your building is a smoking building, then I don't see what they could do.

I do feel for the baby. Parents sound scary. Is the parent going to grab you by the neck or something? Now I'm scared for you.
posted by discopolo at 2:52 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

One other thing; if we give the neighbors the benefit of the doubt, that means they (1) may not know smoking is allowed by the lease (not everyone reads those as well as they should), and (2) believed that coming to you was nicer than going to the landlord, especially if they thought you might get in trouble for smoking in your apartment. Under that light, the "will not tolerate" bit could mean they plan on going to the landlord to turn you in next.

I just don't agree with the sentiment that speaking with them opens you up to being harassed by these people for forever.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:56 PM on April 8, 2015 [9 favorites]

Given that your lease permits it and that you have presented their note as though it's a demand, I would absolutely punt to the building management. Hand the note over to the management office (assuming there's an on-site manager) and ask them to deal with it. If you happen to see the neighbors, tell them you've gotten the note, but because smoking is expressly permitted in your unit under your lease, you've passed their note along to the building management.

If there is no on-site manager, it's probably harder to punt, but I would still try. As a last resort, I would copy your lease, highlight the clause that states you may smoke inside your unit and pass it along to your neighbors. I'm an attorney, so it's in my nature to recommend you never apologize or acknowledge their discomfort in situations like this. Just say, "I got your note; here is the portion of my lease which permits smoking inside my unit."

I get it--I don't smoke (anymore) and since it's not allowed anywhere anymore, it's surprising how strong the smell is, but the rules permitting smoking were there first and you need not stop smoking in your own home at a neighbor's request.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:00 PM on April 8, 2015 [9 favorites]

If I were inclined to be neighborly with them (and I think it's better to err on the side of that), I would go talk to them and say, hey, you would consider smoking in another room or opening up the window a crack, but that they're going to be hit with second-hand smoke from whoever is smoking in the building.

Then be like, "have you considered getting an air filter? they're really not that expensive, and it'll protect you from ALL the smokers" and then maybe quote them some figures.

And if they are all, "NO IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU" I would consider smoking in another room/ opening a window so that these crazy people will not harass you.

And if they are aggro, I would send their note to the landlord describing your conversation

Former smoker here who fell off the wagon yesterday briefly because of some shitty shittiness and poor impulse control.
posted by angrycat at 3:04 PM on April 8, 2015

That's awkward. I would politely respond and let them know that smoking is allowed and that many neighbors smoke. I sympathize with them- I wouldn't want to live near smokers either- but it seems like the kind of thing that would have been obvious when they looked at the apartment. (Personally, I'm glad I live in a city that managed to ban smoking in all multi-unit apartment buildings, because yeah, secondhand smoke is terrible for neighbors' health.)
posted by three_red_balloons at 3:10 PM on April 8, 2015

Regarding ignoring them: the reason I advocated ignoring them is that they want a fight, not a discussion, as evinced by "will not tolerate" (and again, I'm assuming that's a quotation, not a paraphrase). Had they written a note introducing themselves and making a request, my advice would be different, but, well, they didn't -- they sent you a note demanding that you accede to their wishes, and they won't be happy until you do. You're not going to come to a satisfactory resolution with them, because the only satisfactory resolution, to them, is that you stop smoking in your apartment, full stop.

Punt it to the landlord, as others have suggested; don't get into a note-writing contest with them because it will not go well.
posted by holborne at 3:20 PM on April 8, 2015 [14 favorites]

I loathe smoking odors, would do cartwheels of joy if I never had to encounter them again anywhere, have endured smoke-smelly apartment buildings in the past myself, and yet I'm also 100% on your side here. Presumably you chose to live where you do at least in part because of its smoker-friendly policy; these people don't get to change the terms of your lease.

Especially if the tone of their letter is as you say, and assuming your lease does give you the right to smoke in your apartment, I'm absolutely with the folks suggesting that you take it up with the landlord and don't engage with these people directly (honestly, I'd be hard-pressed not to respond with a note saying you "won't tolerate" them dictating the terms of your tenancy, but answering entitlement with hostility isn't going to help anything). Anything else gives them an 'in' to keep arguing with you, and really, if I were you I'd want this shut down as quickly and absolutely as possible.
posted by DingoMutt at 3:25 PM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

it's hard for me to understand why they would move into apartments like these with a newborn and expect the tenants to just stop living their lives normally because a baby is now in the building.

I have been a smoker, and I have moved with a newborn, so I sympathize with both sides here. It's likely that your new neighbors didn't realize smoke would travel in this building, and it's possible that there were some sort of outside circumstances that forced them to move quickly or that made this apartment the best or only one they could get. This sucks for both you and your new neighbors, and there isn't an easy answer.

Here's what I'd do - not sure it's the best approach, but it's what I'd do - I'd go see them in person, because written notes tend to read on the mean side, and because if they meet you in person and you're friendly, they're less likely to view you as some random asshole. And neither you nor they need an enemy right now! Explain your side of the situation, explain that even if you stopped smoking, they'd still get secondhand smoke from other neighbors, and offer to approach the landlord together with them. The landlord should be responsible for smoke proofing the place.

This is all under the assumption that the neighbors are nicer than their note let on. If they're antagonistic in person, just go through the landlord.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:34 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I think way too much weight is being put on the "will not tolerate" language. Yes, it may mean they are creeps that only know how to fight, but not necessarily. They may think they have to be hard nosed for the sake of their baby, they may just be bad at communicating, or they may not have thought too much about it. Also, considering the situation it seems very possible that they don't know smoking is allowed and thought someone who was outright breaking the lease needed to be spoken to in a direct manner.

Most importantly, even if they meant "will not tolerate" in a somewhat aggressive way does not mean they are so dense and immutable that the conversation can not immediately take a different turn depending on how you respond to it.
posted by Blitz at 3:39 PM on April 8, 2015

Response by poster: The letter definitely said "will not tolerate", which kind of tells me it's not up for compromise. But, they prefaced it with, "We're not trying to be dicks, but..."

Kind of passive aggressive.
posted by foxinthesnow at 3:43 PM on April 8, 2015 [11 favorites]

Hrmm. Until your update, I was wondering if it was an ESL thing, since tolerate is such a formal sounding word for the situation. But coupled with "not trying to be dicks" it sounds extra dickish, actually.

I'd take it to your property manager and say "Hey, I'm not trying to piss people off, but this is a smoking-allowed building, and that's one of the reasons I live here. I'm happy to let workers in to check for airflow issues and stuff cracks and whatnot if the building wants to try to stop the smoke from seeping through the walls, but I don't want to get into a battle with these new neighbours." Then let them deal with it.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:50 PM on April 8, 2015 [43 favorites]

If you wish to mitigate, have a small fan in your window (when weather is appropriate) that blows OUT and make sure that if they have a fan, that it blows IN.

Nothing else is reasonable for you to do.
posted by flimflam at 4:09 PM on April 8, 2015

Yeah, I also thought it might be a language thing. But they're comfortable with the vernacular, so fuck that; moreover, they're already aware of the dickishness of their behavior, so it's not like a conversation will bring that revelation to them and change everything. So, here's another vote for going to the property manager
posted by angrycat at 4:11 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

Their first contact seems designed to intimidate right off the bat in the hope that you back down in fear of a fight. I don't think it was unintentional at all. They sound like insufferable assholes and this is coming from someone who has had two babies and who gets asthma triggered from secondhand smoke so if anyone could sympathise it's me, but you just don't approach things like this, not if you want to resolve it and if you want to be able to live in a building without starting an all out neighbour war.

This couple moved into a smoking building, if they can't tolerate it, I guess they should just move out then. They've made no effort to work with you to improve it or even approach you nicely. I'd be tempted to shove a newspaper with apartment to let circled for their convenience under their door. Having said that, escalating won't help you so I'd just ignore it. They are aggressive but they don't have the balls to approach you directly so chances are it will become the landlord's issue which is as it should be.
posted by Jubey at 4:15 PM on April 8, 2015 [7 favorites]

Not trying to be dicks, but... we are! We are genetically dickish and have passed it on to our baby, who will also grow up to be a dick!

Seriously. I am another non-smoker. I live next door to people who come outside to smoke, which means that it comes in my windows - specifically, my bedroom window. I am not fond of this. BUT: it is their right to smoke outside, and it is my right to close my bedroom window to stop the smoke getting in. I am usually just too lazy. I would never dream of sending them a passive-aggressive note.

Now that we've established they are dicks indulging in dickish behaviour, I agree with others that your best option is to point out to them that this is not a non-smoking apartment building and you are perfectly entitled to smoke in your apartment. I would make this as pleasant and yet formal as possible - highlighting the clause in your lease is a good idea. So: "You may not be aware, but smoking is actually permitted in this building - just not in shared areas like hallways and common areas. I've attached the relevant part of my lease - if yours is different, I'd be taking that up with the landlord! Regards, foxinthesnow."

Good luck with the dicks.
posted by Athanassiel at 4:16 PM on April 8, 2015 [6 favorites]

Make a copy of the note, keep one for yourself and give the other to the property manager/landlord, let them deal with the new tenants. Do not engage, do not escalate, do not respond in kind, do not get mired into the problem they have brought upon themselves by moving into a smoker-friendly building. If they try to contact you directly again tell them that smoking in your unit is allowed per your lease and they need to bring their complaints to the landlord/property manager, thank you, goodbye.

There is no happy compromise with "I screwed up and you need to fix it" people.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:19 PM on April 8, 2015 [15 favorites]

Agreed, prize bull octorok: make copies of their note, turn the original note over to management, and do not engage. Going forward, I would be extra super careful not to share with them any portion of your lease that contains your full name or contact info.

The language in their tone deaf note could be construed as harassing, if I'm being uncharitable in my reading (which I am because: wow). What a poor choice on their part. Not your problem!
posted by hush at 4:22 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

You definitely don't have to stop smoking because of this note. However, the appropriate next step (actually first step) for them is to go to the landlord who does have a responsibility to make sure their apartment doesn't smell like smoke. That may entail structural changes to your apartment, their apartment and/or possibly other apartments. It could also entail a notice to you that your smoking is interfereing with someone else's quiet enjoyment of their apartment. Your lease surely forbids your preventing others' quiet enjoyment of their units and even if it doesn't, this is probably a presumed common law requirement (IANAL). So it does seem conceivable that after they go to the landlord the landlord could have grounds to tell you to stop smoking.

Your cigarettes are no different from your stereo or TV. You're allowed to have them and use them, but if you do in ways that impinges on other apartments, that may be less allowed.

As for whether or not the smoke actually is reaching them (some have suggested that it's not really reaching them): Do you smoke with your apartment door open or post a notice every time you light up? Of course the smoke is reaching them, otherwise how would they know you smoke in there?

But yeah, the note is out of line and this should all go through the landlord.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:28 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

If they "will not tolerate" the smell of smoke in their living space then they "should not have moved into" a smoking building. That's on them, not you. And I say that as a non-smoker, who is very allergic to smoke, who has little ones at home whose health I am fanatical about. As such I would not have moved my little family into your building.

I think a polite conversation or note is order stating that your lease allows for smoking, sorry, take it up with the landlord if they want to break their lease.

However, it would also be supremely cool of you if you would get one of those smoke-sucking air filters, or keep your windows closed, or only smoke on your balcony or whatever in order to be the coolest neighbor in the building. But really, this isn't your problem.
posted by vignettist at 4:32 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

I really, *really* hate the smell of cigarette smoke, but if smoking is allowed in your unit then smoking is allowed in your unit.

I don't think an air filter in your apartment or opening a window is likely to solve the "problem" from your neighbors' perspective, and I don't think you can reasonably be asked to stop smoking in your apartment, so I think this is going to be one of those situations where your neighbors just won't be able to get what they want as long as they live in that apartment.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 4:47 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Regarding quiet enjoyment: you don't get to move into an apartment where you have notice of a particular condition and then complain about the condition. (Makes perfect sense, if you think about it: if it were otherwise, people could deliberately seek out nuisances just for the purpose of suing on the basis of those nuisances.) An apartment building where one-third of the tenants smoke is not a condition where you can say you had no notice when you moved in, especially if it says in the lease "Smoking ok in the unit but no smoking in the common areas."
posted by holborne at 4:52 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

An apartment building where one-third of the tenants smoke is not a condition where you can say you had no notice when you moved in, especially if it says in the lease "Smoking ok in the unit but no smoking in the common areas."

I think the condition they would complain about isn't "there are people smoking in the building" but "there is smoke in my apartment." which is a separate issue and something it would be difficult to evaluate before moving in.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:02 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Another non-smoker who loathes second hand smoke who votes let the landlord deal with it and don't respond (I would tell the landlord that you'd received a note). I've been the person above a smoker with an HVAC problem (there would be a very heavy odor from 6pm to 11 pm every day), and I went to the landlord directly: even though it gave me hives it was not his problem to handle because he wasn't doing anything wrong. They did something with the outlets and HVAC and it helped (thank god he was a short term lease).

If the note had been more polite, I might be inclined to respond politely that smoking is allowed per the lease, but you've passed the information on to the landlord so they can handle it. But, regardless of their intent, the wording sounds hostile and dickish, and I would not want to risk starting a back and forth. If they want open lines of communication, they can learn to write notes in a way that invites response rather sound like prima donnas passing edicts. (To be fair, they have a newborn and may be sleep deprived, stressed and not phrasing things as thoughtfully as they normally would. That's fine, but I don't think you need to take on the task of figuring that out).
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:09 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

They have a new baby and they just moved and newborns are so very delicate. They're probably sleepy, stressed, broke, and scared. Secondhand smoke poses health risks to babies and they are in a tough spot. So they weren't so tactful, okay. Let that go.

No. No.

Neighbors who write nasty notes are assholes. This is coming from more than one experience with a nasty note writing neighbor.

Unless you are a heavy smoker or your building is made out of paper, a newborn is not going to be harmed by whatever slight smoke smell is coming through the vent.

More importantly, having a baby is not an excuse for being a jerk.

Do not engage. Pass the note along to your building manager. If they don't like it, they can move.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 5:43 PM on April 8, 2015 [14 favorites]

Unless you are a heavy smoker or your building is made out of paper, a newborn is not going to be harmed by whatever slight smoke smell is coming through the vent.

I agree that this was an asshole note, but I think you're being too harsh here. People have all sorts of worries about newborns, some valid and some not. People have all sorts of varying anxiety levels. Secondhand smoke is regularly held up as a substantial risk factor for SIDS.

Go to the landlord and ask them to handle it.
posted by OmieWise at 5:53 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

There's currently a toolshed in one of the apartment buildings that I take care of taking a similar approach, except he's leaving prissy notes in the elevator, laundry rooms, and all the building entrances and exits, to make it seem like they're official general notices. He doesn't have a leg to stand on here. I take them down as fast as he puts them up and take a small amount of joy in watching him fume on the security monitor when he finds his latest proclamation removed.

As for air filters, it should not be on you to spend your money to make their apartment smell the way they want it to smell. They can buy their own if they want.

Depending on how your building is set up, it may be impossible (or, rather, a huge expensive pain in the ass) for the owners to eliminate the odor transfer. Say your bathroom fans vent into a common trunk, or that it's a rooftop fan unit that ventilates through grates and a common trunk. There isn't much that could be done without ripping apart the whole system if baffles aren't available for the oddball-sized 1960s weird custom ducting involved. Such was the case at another of our buildings; the HVAC guy that looked into it for us actually had to call three of his coworkers in for a conclave to figure out if it could be done. No dice.

Also, do not attempt to seal anything up yourself in order to make them happy. I've had tenants tape up their plumbing access hatches and get dinged for patching and painting when they moved out. One even sealed up his bathroom fan and was shocked when it turned into a gut-job mold horror show.
posted by CKmtl at 6:16 PM on April 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

Secondhand smoke is regularly held up as a substantial risk factor for SIDS.

The people in charge of a newborn's health and safety are, oddly enough, the newborn's parents. If 2nd hand smoke was a concern of theirs, the time to enforce that concern was when they were looking at apartments, not after they moved into a smoking building.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:46 PM on April 8, 2015 [17 favorites]

I'm with internet fraud detective squad, station number 9.
I moved with a newborn, and while it's not an excuse to be a jerk (as in, it doesn't make it OK)... the stress, sleep deprivation, etc. are very real. We were not very charming people at that point. Moving with a 5-wk old was a total nightmare. If they're normal people, they may very well look back on this note in 6mo and be sorry. Also, smoking is cited as a major SIDS risk - it is very easy to Google "SIDS safety recommendations" and end up reading horrible stories about dead babies and have the absolute shit scared out of you (even easier since you're super sleep deprived!). Be gracious with these people if you can muster it - even if you just give them politeness/civility and a wide berth.

On preview: We had our lease unexpectedly terminated for no reason and had less than a month to move. Luckily we have good jobs, savings, etc. and could be a bit picky and it was still awful and stressful. They may not have had much of a choice, for whatever reason.

It would be perfectly ok give the note to the landlord and not worry about it. Be nice when you see them in the hall.

If you want to be really nice leave them a note to the effect that air filters aren't that expensive and if they want to buy you one, you'll use it; ask where the baby sleeps and offer to not smoke out that window. Point out that it is a smoking building and you're not the only smoker, so it may be difficult to really get rid of it they way they'd probably like; in the future they should contact the property manager.

Our building of 4 units doesn't have "rules" like that. It never occurred to me that it'd permit smoking (or not). Our downstairs neighbours (with 2 kids) own their unit and occasionally smoke (usually pot, sometimes a cigarette or cigar), usually out their front porch at night so it wafts into the living room. Whatever. The few times they've smoked in the backyard so it wafted through the baby's window I was kinda pissed. This is the problem with smoking "permissions"... it's airborne, and second hand smoke is real. They shouldn't have moved in, but that's done now.
posted by jrobin276 at 7:00 PM on April 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

Secondhand smoke is regularly held up as a substantial risk factor for SIDS.

Also, smoking is cited as a major SIDS risk - it is very easy to Google "SIDS safety recommendations" and end up reading horrible stories about dead babies and have the absolute shit scared out of you (even easier since you're super sleep deprived!)

So the OP doesn't feel like a potential baby murderer:

Second hand smoke is a risk factor for SIDS. HOWEVER - the biggest factor is maternal smoking. In other words, babies with smoking parents, who smoke in the house and around the baby, are at the greatest risk for SIDS.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:17 PM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

That's not to say that there are no health risks, but just to not induce SIDS googling and unnecessary guilt.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 7:17 PM on April 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

For the OP and anyone else who cares....

The owner of the building I live in now tries to market the building as "Smoke Free." There are several older/elderly tenants here that have lived here since before Crazy Pants Liar Owner bought the building.

New leases prohibit smoking anywhere, older tenants still smoke because their original leases do not prohibit the act of smoking, nor does local law.

Long story short -- Crazy Pants Owner knocked on my door one afternoon a few months ago accusing ME of smoking in my apartment because they were showing a vacancy, and a perspective tenant busted them for smelling cigarettes. It was assuredly my upstairs neighbor, but they saw me at home, so I had to bear the brunt of their confrontation and ire. I was dumbfounded.

OP's landlord may have lied to these folks, and these new tenants may have a "No Smoking" clause in their lease. They may have been lied to about the building rules.

The OP is still allowed to smoke if they want. These nasty neighbors may have been completely duped.

The landlord can still do HEAPS to remediate the issue, or make it easier for them to move. This is ENTIRELY on the neighbors to pursue.

The OP still needs to alert management and refuse negative interaction with these folks. Just telling y'all these types of shenanigans happen. So sorry, OP. Either way, your neighbors handled this poorly.
posted by jbenben at 12:08 AM on April 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

I agree that you hand this over to the landlord and call it done.
posted by LarryC at 12:24 AM on April 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Long time (previous) smoker here. I used to be similar to you and enjoy some wine and cigarettes in the evening in my flat... So no judgyness from me.

But I do believe that when people live in flats that they should avoid being a nuisance to their neighbours (ie avoid doing things that prevent others reasonable enjoyment of their property) and in some places I've lived that has meant that I go outside for my cigarette if the ventilation was bad or at least have a look and make sure if I'm blowing smoke out the window that the ones nearby are closed. I've had smoke and cooking smells waft through my apartment and it's not nice...

Where we are now, we've had smoke waft in our bedroom windows from people the next garden over- so when we used to smoke we would only smoke in the garden once in a while since we knew there was a good chance our neighbours would get it in their windows.

There's a difference between being bothered by a cigarette once in a while and someone who smokes several cigarettes every single evening.
posted by catspajammies at 2:01 AM on April 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Please limit your comments to answers, or help in finding an answer. With "neighbours", "kids" and "smoking" this is a bit of a confluence of sensitive topics -- and it's going fine but it's just terribly easy to trigger some kind of debate in here. So, sorry to be the stickler for protocol here, but Ask is simply not a place for discussion. Thanks!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 5:08 AM on April 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Dear neighbor,

I recieved your note. Congratulations on your new baby, and welcome to the building. I'm not sure if you're aware, but my lease permits me to smoke inside my unit. I believe many of our neighbors hold similar clauses in their leases as well. If you have concerns about the air transfer between units, I recommend you ask the landlord about your options.

Thank you,
neighbor"
posted by Yellow Silver Maple at 6:07 AM on April 9, 2015 [13 favorites]

Non-smoker here. I think that second-hand smoke is gross, but that is this case you're within your rights to keep smoking inside your apartment. I think that Yellow Silver Maple's suggestion for how to respond is great. I wouldn't escalate it to management unless your neighbours respond again with rudeness equal to the first letter.

As rude as the note they left you is, I think that it would be best to give your neighbours the benefit of the doubt that they did not realise that so many people in the building smoke. As noted above, it's possible that their rental contract doesn't say anything about smoking. Also, it's really not that uncommon for people on either side of the fence to react strongly about this issue. Someone in my boyfriend's building left a passive-aggressive note in the elevator asking smokers to smoke inside, not on the balcony, because they were sick of smoke wafting in through their windows. A bizarre suggestion, since it's a non-smoking building and the contracts explicitly rule out smoking inside.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 7:55 AM on April 9, 2015

Do not engage them directly. What we have here is a fanatic. They will not quit, and responding to them will put you clearly in their sights as a problem to be eradicated. There have been cases where a non-smoker has sued to prevent smoke from an adjacent condo or apartment from "seeping" into their apartment. Well I won't keep you in suspense...they won.

At least two courts in California have been open to
claims brought against a neighbor for harms caused
by drifting tobacco smoke. In 1996, a Los Angeles
couple sued their neighbor for harassment because
he smoked on a regular basis in the garage under
their unit, forcing them to leave their home for
hours at a time. The trial court issued a restraining
order instructing the neighbor to stay away from
his garage while smoking.

In 2004, a trial court in
Riverside County ruled against a smoking neighbor.
The court held that it is possible to win negligence
and nuisance claims for exposure to drifting
tobacco smoke if it is sufficiently extreme, constant,
and noxious.
posted by Gungho at 9:00 AM on April 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

I am a non-smoker, I hate the smell of cigarette smoke, and it also aggravates my asthma. And as a result of all of that, I would NEVER move into a smoking building. It sounds like you are following the rules of your lease, and also that you probably intentionally chose to sign a lease at this particular building because you are a smoker and want to be able to smoke inside. That's your call.

Look, I'm someone who loves taking baths! But if I sign a lease on an apartment that only has a shower, I don't really have cause to complain about the lack-of-bathtub to anyone. We all make decisions (and compromises) about where to live based on a whole host of factors that we rank in various ways. If moving into a smoking-permitted building was such a huge dealbreaker to them that they cannot tolerate it, then clearly they should not have done so!

I would definitely make my first call here to the manager or landlord. If you feel the need to respond to the neighbors, I think I would say something along the lines of:

"Hi Neighbors. I've forwarded your concerns to the building management. As I'm sure you are aware, smoking is permitted as per the lease and this was a major consideration for me in selecting this particular building. I encourage you to follow up with the building management about air filters, ventilation issues, or other solutions that may alleviate this issue for you."

But ultimately, this is kinda like someone moving into a dog-friendly building and then freaking out because they are terrified of dogs and don't want to see them in the stairwell.
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:13 AM on April 9, 2015 [6 favorites]

Think of it like this: Your lease gives you permission to smoke in your apartment. It does not give you permission to smoke in your neighbor's apartment. If your actions are causing smoke to enter into someone else's living space, limiting their peaceful enjoyment of their own apartment, why is it necessarily their problem to fix? I am pretty sure that your neighbors aren't offended by the idea of you smoking, they are reacting to the unpleasant reality that your cigarette smoke is entering their home. In the same way that listening to music in one's own home is allowed, but listening to music so loudly that it bothers others is not, you do bear some responsibility here.

You can punt this to the landlord, but in my experience they will be unwilling or unable to really fix it to the neighbors' satisfaction. When I was faced with the same issue as your neighbors are facing, the only thing that helped was a massive undertaking of caulking every opening, from floorboards to stair risers to electrical outlets, along the shared walls, and then repainting those walls with shellac primer to limit the stuff coming in through the drywall itself. The fact that my cigar-smoking neighbor was "allowed" to smoke in his apartment did not make the reality any less miserable for us and our baby. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I hope you will be a little bit more considerate than many of the previous posters seem to think is sufficient.
posted by Jemstar at 11:56 AM on April 9, 2015

Response by poster: I ended up replying to their note and told them that I have purchased a HEPA filter and a smokeless ashtray, and that I will limit myself to smoking in only one room. (I should also add that I am usually at work, so I really only smoke 2 or 3 cigarettes a day while I am in my apartment. So, now, in one room only, blowing smoke directly into this fancy filter, I really hope they can't smell it). I also went to the property company and told them what happened, and they said not to worry about it because it is a smoking building. I also heard the property people in the basement today and it sounded like they were talking about the air flow and caulking something, so I assume that the neighbor must have called them, which they should have done initially.

So, I hope that is the end of it. I haven't gotten a reply from the neighbor yet. I am just all freaked out about those stories of lawsuits you guys posted. But, if I am smoking a reasonable amount in an apartment that very clearly allows smoking (it's written in the lease and I assume theirs is the same), I shouldn't worry, right?
posted by foxinthesnow at 12:41 PM on April 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

I shouldn't worry, right?

Right. You've already done WAY more than enough, and certainly more than you were obligated to (which was nothing, except maybe letting management know). I say this as a non-smoker who doesn't like the smell of smoke, but if someone's smoking where they're allowed to smoke, it's my problem, not theirs.
posted by AlisonM at 1:09 PM on April 9, 2015 [6 favorites]

If you were worried about a lawsuit, you should not have replied to them, you should NOT have described any steps you are or are not taking.

The only party you should have put anything in writing for was your landlord, requesting them to handle this issue. I'm assuming your crazy neighbors won't end up suing you, but they will continue to harrass you because you have opened a dialogue with them. It's good that your landlord is taking steps to seal things.

I know you meant well, but really, stop validating these people's choice to bully you. Don't feed the crazy any further. You are directly buying future trouble, not assuaging their concerns. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 3:13 PM on April 9, 2015 [12 favorites]

As Jenben said... I've been lied to or jerked around in some way by EVERY landlord/property manager/real estate agent I've had. They may very well have been lied to. I type this while waiting for our hot water to get fixed - hot water is a 24 hr essential utility, and we're on 36 hours and counting. And it's Friday.... (fingers crossed!)

You have been super nice. I don't think you should worry.
Some commentors are being really harsh on these new parents... I tell you, you don't know how hellish moving with a newborn is (the logisitics! mom not being able to help much! feeling like you can't even keep a roof over this tiny baby's head!) until you've done it. It they continue to be jerks that's one thing, but otherwise if you can give them some space and give them the benefit of the doubt for now they may end up being perfectly nice neighbours. You probably haven't gotten a reply because *newborn*. I can't even tell you exactly how or why something that small is such a timesuck, but it is. And they're probably still trying to unpack too.
posted by jrobin276 at 3:37 PM on April 9, 2015