Giving an unpaid talk in Canada: business or tourist?

March 11, 2015 4:51 PM

YANML, but I am a US resident, and have a Korean passport and a US green card. I am going to Canada for less than a week, to give an unpaid talk and meet with people in my field (though the hosts are paying for airfare and hotels). According to the official websites, I'd say this qualifies as a business trip. Does anyone have experience with a similar trip? Do business trips raise more flags at the border?
posted by molla to Travel & Transportation around Canada (12 answers total)

Yes, this would be considered business. I take trips like this all the time and it is not something that generally concerns immigration officials. If you haven't had problems with immigration before, I wouldn't worry too much.

You should have your passport and green card. If you are concerned at all that you might have difficulties, here is extra documentation you can carry with you:

1. Letter of invitation from your host stating that you will deliver the talk unpaid
2. Proof of onward travel (like your return itinerary)
3. Proof of access to funds (like a bank statement)
4. Letter of support from your employer

I wouldn't volunteer any of this stuff unless asked. You probably won't be asked, either.
posted by grouse at 5:19 PM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

I don't think they are going to specifically ask if it's paid or not. I think it's fine to say it's a business trip to speak at an event. The fact that they are paying for your travel makes this a business transaction.

They will probably want to know how long you're staying and that you have confirmed travel back out of Canada. If you intend to spend the rest of the time having meetings and networking with associates in your field, you can say so. If you plan to see any sights in your downtime, you can admit that too as they may want to know how you'll spend the rest of your time.

I would take along any materials showing you are speaking at the event, like a brochure or a letter inviting you. And definitely be able to show you have already booked your travel to end on a certain day.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:25 PM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

The advice I've been given when traveling to meetings related to my profession is to say that the purpose of my travel is business, to specify that it's a conference or meeting, but do not say that you are going to "work" while visiting the country. (I assume you won't be in the country to do things in exchange for wages or salary.) "Work" is a word that can trigger immigration/visa questions if you use in front of a customs officer. If they ask if you will be working in Canada, say no.

You could also ask the people who invited you for a "pocket letter" that you can carry through customs, with an explanation and their contact information. It's not strictly necessary, but it can be nice for your peace of mind.
posted by mbrubeck at 6:07 PM on March 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

I've been hassled at the US border in the same kind of situation. The key points to be clear on are that they ARE NOT PAYING YOU and this is NOT A JOB. The problem is that being that their job doesn't typically involve giving talks, the border guards seemed to have a little trouble wrapping their heads around the idea of travelling to give a talk. They kept asking me why I would do it if I wasn't being paid ("So you're volunteering?") and I ended up having to attempt to explain the idea of citations and how status works in academia. Then they wanted to know what my talk was about and I basically spent 20 minutes doing an abbreviated version of my talk for the border guards while they searched the car.

They were VERY interested in the financial arrangements. In addition to finding it improbably that I would "volunteer" they really wanted to know if covering my expenses meant that they were reimbursing me or they were paying directly. They seemed to be very worried that I was "taking a job from an American" because they just couldn't wrap their heads around why I would do it for free so assumed I was being paid and that any old American could just as easily give the talk that I was going to give.

So they might hassle you, but you'll probably get through eventually.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:14 PM on March 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

Even if you go on your own, paying your own way, with the hope of meeting with potential clients in the future, it would be regarded as a business trip. I have encountered the same questions as those described above, focused on whether I was being paid to work there. The key in your situation, I think, is to emphasize that you are hoping to use the contacts you make to develop your work in the U.S. after you return home, not to work in Canada.
posted by yclipse at 6:31 PM on March 11, 2015

I'm an academic (university professor), and I just say that I am going for an academic conference or lecture. I haven't had any problems; usually I'm going to a meeting with several hundred other presenters, so the border authorities get used to us, but even on a smaller scale, it hasn't been a problem.

Even if you're not in academe, it seems to me (as someone without legal training, and this is not legal advice) that the issue is whether you are going to be paid for work by Canadian sources on this trip or make arrangements that might lead to such payments in the future. I spent two years living in France on a visitor (non-working) visa because, although my American university was paying a sabbatical salary to me, I was not being paid by a French employer or doing work that would otherwise have been compensated by a French employer. The French immigration authorities knew I was there to do academic research, and that I was drawing a salary from my American university, but they didn't think that required a work visa because no one in France was losing employment because I was there. I suspect that the Canadians would have a similar outlook.
posted by brianogilvie at 7:37 PM on March 11, 2015

Under similar circumstances, when asked if a visit is business or personal, I have always stated that the purpose of my visit is to attend a conference. Often that's all they need to hear. Sometimes they will follow up and ask what kind of conference, and I respond with the most simple and mundane description I can come up with. So far for me those responses have never presented a problem; they always shrug and stamp the passport :)
posted by elf27 at 8:22 PM on March 11, 2015

I don't think they are going to specifically ask if it's paid or not.

They do. This is the difference between "business" and "work". The unpaid "business" one is fine, the paid "work" one you need a work permit and quite possibly an invitation letter for.
posted by bonehead at 8:23 PM on March 11, 2015

The question's usually phrased as "what is the purpose of your trip." I ordinarily just say I'm going to a conference, because conference implies business/networking rather than paid work. (Or if it's not a conference, I will say "meetings.") Bonehead is right, you want to avoid implying you'll be getting paid.

But you won't have any problems. You definitely do not need a visa for an unpaid talk, and the worst case scenario is they'll ask you a few clarification questions. Entering Canada is much easier than entering the United States.
posted by Susan PG at 10:00 PM on March 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Here's a shocking cautionary tale: I work at a US university within 20 minutes of the Canadian border. We've recently had an invited guest speaker from Canada being denied entry into the US at the border. Apparently, he stated that he was going to "work" with one of my colleagues - which he meant as (unpaid) collaborative research. This apparently raised a red flag with the border guard, though. We were subsequently told to tell future guest from Canada to NEVER use the word "work" in any context and stress that they are not getting paid for any activities.

I'm still incredulous and pissed with the border patrol. I've crossed the border between East and West Germany many times as a child and adolescent, and this crap completely reminds me of that.
posted by tecg at 11:03 PM on March 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

I don't think they are going to specifically ask if it's paid or not.

The longest it's ever taken me to cross the Canadian border (I travel on a US passport and live in the US) involved going round and round on this question when I was going to a workshop as a grad student. I think I said I was going to a conference, which was interpreted as "trade show" or something, and I had to explain what exactly it is mathematicians do at these things (go to lectures, talk about math, drink coffee), no I wasn't being paid to go, but my travel expenses were being reimbursed. I was never concerned I was going to be denied entry, but it was tedious. (It probably didn't help that I had flown to Vermont and my mom was giving me a lift to Montreal. The immigration official also seemed to find the fact my mom lives in Vermont and I lived in Minnesota mind-boggling, which was a bit odd, given how many people fly to/from Burlington instead of Montreal when traveling to/from somewhere in the US.)

The next time I went to Canada for a conference, I made sure I had printed a copy of the letter of invitation (which they had emailed me as a matter of course for travel purposes because it was a much more "official" conference) and my hostel bookings and so on. No questions whatsoever. I flew to Toronto that time. I'm pretty sure I ticked 'business' on the landing card.

It's true that getting back into the US will be more unpleasant, but that doesn't mean Canadian immigration can't be thorough while being pleasant when they feel like it.
posted by hoyland at 4:45 AM on March 12, 2015

I know a Canadian academic who got denied at the border when he was going to do a round of NRC grant reviews and would receive an honorarium for it.
posted by srboisvert at 8:56 AM on March 12, 2015 [1 favorite]