New laptop: Macbook or ... something else?
January 31, 2015 6:50 AM Subscribe
The time has come for a new computer. I've owned 3 laptops, all Macs. This one has lasted me 7 years, but it's getting to the point that I can't run, for instance, the latest version of Safari because it's not available for my device. Plus it's getting old and overheats quickly - I can't watch videos, and pages with a ton of photos are a PITA to open, and I can only open about 2 tabs before it starts to wheeze.
I can technically afford to spend upwards of 1,000 on a computer, but I appreciate a bargain. I'm not doing anything amazing, technical or creative with my laptop - I read metafilter, check facebook, surf and write a little. I guess it would be nice to be able to play games on a laptop - through my iphone I've gotten very interested in games. And I miss being able to watch movies on my laptop.
I never take it to coffee shops to work or anything like that, so portability is a limited concern.
I do really appreciate how long this one has lasted - I'm afraid that if I buy a $400 laptop I will find myself replacing it in a year, and that it won't be as pretty. Plus, I've never worried much about viruses before, and am concerned about that becoming an issue with a non-mac. And the last concern is that I just don't know much about other products, except that Acer has crappy customer service.
Mefites, can you speak to the staying power and desirability of non-mac products? Can I justify the expense of a macbook when my usage is so mundane? If I get a non-mac, what do I need to do to keep the viruses at bay?
I can technically afford to spend upwards of 1,000 on a computer, but I appreciate a bargain. I'm not doing anything amazing, technical or creative with my laptop - I read metafilter, check facebook, surf and write a little. I guess it would be nice to be able to play games on a laptop - through my iphone I've gotten very interested in games. And I miss being able to watch movies on my laptop.
I never take it to coffee shops to work or anything like that, so portability is a limited concern.
I do really appreciate how long this one has lasted - I'm afraid that if I buy a $400 laptop I will find myself replacing it in a year, and that it won't be as pretty. Plus, I've never worried much about viruses before, and am concerned about that becoming an issue with a non-mac. And the last concern is that I just don't know much about other products, except that Acer has crappy customer service.
Mefites, can you speak to the staying power and desirability of non-mac products? Can I justify the expense of a macbook when my usage is so mundane? If I get a non-mac, what do I need to do to keep the viruses at bay?
Dell and Lenovo both make business-class machines that have stood the test of time. That said, I own two Asus laptops (an i5 mid-level 15.6" and an i7 17.3" gaming behemoth) and have been QUITE impressed with their quality and support.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:12 AM on January 31, 2015
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:12 AM on January 31, 2015
You just got 7 years out of your last Apple laptop. Let's say you payed $1500 for it. That means it cost you a little over $200 a year to own it.
You get what you pay for. A $400 disposable Dell or HP will be making you crazy in two years, if it hasn't melted down or had its screen fall off or become loaded with malware to the point that it needs to be gut reformatted. It still cost you $200 a year to own it. Or you could buy a $1000 Macbook Air and very likely get five years out of it.
Indeed you could buy a $1000 PC laptop and expect 5 years as well, in theory. But at that point you're comparing Apples and apples.
posted by spitbull at 7:13 AM on January 31, 2015 [21 favorites]
You get what you pay for. A $400 disposable Dell or HP will be making you crazy in two years, if it hasn't melted down or had its screen fall off or become loaded with malware to the point that it needs to be gut reformatted. It still cost you $200 a year to own it. Or you could buy a $1000 Macbook Air and very likely get five years out of it.
Indeed you could buy a $1000 PC laptop and expect 5 years as well, in theory. But at that point you're comparing Apples and apples.
posted by spitbull at 7:13 AM on January 31, 2015 [21 favorites]
Can I justify the expense of a macbook when my usage is so mundane?
Do you live near an Apple Store? I have a 5+ yo MBP* and I've probably gotten more in free tech support, instantly replaced cords, and on-the-spot approvals for free major repairs (like replacing the screen because of an obscure "known issue") than I paid for the computer itself.
*Bought when I gave my old PowerBook to my mom. That PB lasted at least 7 years.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:25 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do you live near an Apple Store? I have a 5+ yo MBP* and I've probably gotten more in free tech support, instantly replaced cords, and on-the-spot approvals for free major repairs (like replacing the screen because of an obscure "known issue") than I paid for the computer itself.
*Bought when I gave my old PowerBook to my mom. That PB lasted at least 7 years.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:25 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, even a 5 year old Mac laptop might be worth cleaning up, upgrading the RAM and maybe the battery and hard drive, and keeping on the road another couple of years if your use is really as limited as you say. Determine if your model can run OSX Mavericks or Yosemite, and if so I'd go to 4GB RAM. You might be very satisfied for $80 worth of memory.
posted by spitbull at 7:28 AM on January 31, 2015
posted by spitbull at 7:28 AM on January 31, 2015
I have this same debate every time I get a new computer (which is, like you, every 6-8 years). I've always ended up getting a Mac, and when this one kicks it (it's an '09 so the day is coming), I'm sure I'll make the same decision.
Here's the thing. Sure, your usage is mundane. Sure, you could do those things on a lesser laptop. But I'm willing to bet you would enjoy it less, if you've been a Mac person all along. And personally, I read Metafilter, watch endless youtube videos, and write for fun and relaxation. On occasions when I've had to do those things on a PC, there's been something a little off about the experience. I've been annoyed more often. Things don't look right. And it's less fun and relaxing.
Is this rational? Obviously not. Is it still true for me, and worth the upcharge? Absolutely. (And, as others point out, they do last an awfully long time for a computer. Except for the '03 Pro I had that literally caught fire, but uhh, that was a weird thing.)
Let me put in a word, though, for the Air, since you're not doing anything super intensive. I have one at work, and it is the BEST. I do occasional graphics work so it wouldn't really work for me for home use, and I am more than a little sad about that. What a nice, functional, super light computer. I know you don't lug yours around, but it's awesome for writing on the couch, in bed, whatever.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 7:28 AM on January 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Here's the thing. Sure, your usage is mundane. Sure, you could do those things on a lesser laptop. But I'm willing to bet you would enjoy it less, if you've been a Mac person all along. And personally, I read Metafilter, watch endless youtube videos, and write for fun and relaxation. On occasions when I've had to do those things on a PC, there's been something a little off about the experience. I've been annoyed more often. Things don't look right. And it's less fun and relaxing.
Is this rational? Obviously not. Is it still true for me, and worth the upcharge? Absolutely. (And, as others point out, they do last an awfully long time for a computer. Except for the '03 Pro I had that literally caught fire, but uhh, that was a weird thing.)
Let me put in a word, though, for the Air, since you're not doing anything super intensive. I have one at work, and it is the BEST. I do occasional graphics work so it wouldn't really work for me for home use, and I am more than a little sad about that. What a nice, functional, super light computer. I know you don't lug yours around, but it's awesome for writing on the couch, in bed, whatever.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 7:28 AM on January 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
You won't find anything with near the build quality of an Apple laptop in a price range that much cheaper, and then you have to go through the hassle of learning a different operating system, deal with uninstalling all the crap that comes with a non-Apple laptop, and worry about viruses and malware.
Is spending that time and guaranteed frustration worth saving at best a couple of hundred bucks over the next 5-7 years?
posted by ndfine at 7:49 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is spending that time and guaranteed frustration worth saving at best a couple of hundred bucks over the next 5-7 years?
posted by ndfine at 7:49 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
You won't save that much anyway, as I suggested above. Ruthless Bunny's anecdote above is atypical. $400 laptops fall apart in two years under heavy use, and they suck the whole time you are using them. They're obsolete when you buy them so even if you use them lightly they become frustration factories in two years.
Read reviews. It costs 200 bucks a year to have a nice laptop. If you can afford 1000 bucks now you'll also enjoy the machine over those years.
This is manufacturer agnostic. Dell makes a nice $1000 product too.
Even as a Windows machine by the way, my 2014 rMBP is the sweetest hardware I've ever owned in 25 years and 15 or so machines.
posted by spitbull at 7:59 AM on January 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Read reviews. It costs 200 bucks a year to have a nice laptop. If you can afford 1000 bucks now you'll also enjoy the machine over those years.
This is manufacturer agnostic. Dell makes a nice $1000 product too.
Even as a Windows machine by the way, my 2014 rMBP is the sweetest hardware I've ever owned in 25 years and 15 or so machines.
posted by spitbull at 7:59 AM on January 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Two and a half years ago, I bought a $250 laptop. It runs AVG as a way to handle any bad things that may slip through. I have Steam on it, which I use to play games like FTL and Supreme Commander. It has no problems with videos, music, surfing, and metafilter. I have had to spend $0 on maintenance and upkeep since owning it. I don't move it on the daily, but it does get moved with some regularity.
Six years ago, I bought a netbook for $150. Aside from needing to change the Wi-Fi card when Ubuntu didn't have the appropriate drivers for the original card, it has cost $0 to own and maintain, and it still handles basic tasks (It's getting a bit slow now, which is to be expected).
In short, cheap laptops aren't going to fall apart the second you get one. If you do end up getting a Windows laptop, install your initial round of programs you want painlessly and junk-free with Ninite. Especially for what you're doing, the shell-shock of switching from Mac to Windows is hardly that severe.
posted by miguelcervantes at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Six years ago, I bought a netbook for $150. Aside from needing to change the Wi-Fi card when Ubuntu didn't have the appropriate drivers for the original card, it has cost $0 to own and maintain, and it still handles basic tasks (It's getting a bit slow now, which is to be expected).
In short, cheap laptops aren't going to fall apart the second you get one. If you do end up getting a Windows laptop, install your initial round of programs you want painlessly and junk-free with Ninite. Especially for what you're doing, the shell-shock of switching from Mac to Windows is hardly that severe.
posted by miguelcervantes at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you never take your laptop to other places, have you considered a desktop? A Mac Mini will be cheaper than an equivalently-powerful laptop (and you can buy very nice monitors for cheap these days, albeit not from Apple).
posted by enn at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by enn at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I own a $400 laptop as does my wife, both 7 years old, so they're typical in my family. That said, I agree with those who say to get the Mac. To get a PC, you need to think different, and there's a cost to that. It will look strange and you'll have to relate to it in unfamiliar ways. You'll need to learn about things like Ninite and AVG and Malwarebytes. I don't get the impression that this is something you would find enjoyable.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:11 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:11 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Interesting that no one has mentioned software... if you live inside a web browser, then platform is essentially meaningless, but if you've paid for application software on the Mac, you'll want to factor in the potential cost of buying Windows versions of those apps (assuming they exist).
posted by dbiedny at 8:21 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dbiedny at 8:21 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am bi-platform, Windows admin by day and first gen MacBook Air for personal use, and the Mac is less maintenance-fussy, but the truth is my Macs are "free" (I sort of pay for them in their first life as my husband's primary computer, and then it gets handed down to me when he needs to upgrade) and I'd probably buy a nicer but sub $1K PC laptop if I suddenly had to.
You don't say if you work on a PC for work. If so, you're probably capable of using one without being completely baffled.
And I miss being able to watch movies on my laptop.
I would actually make a case for a tablet here, or a flexible PC like a Lenovo Yoga or a Surface (one of these two will be my next work-issued laptop), but that's mostly because I do not really sit at my desk to watch movies. I want to watch on the coffee table from the couch, or in bed, or outside at the patio table. If you really do stay at your desk, I think a $400 laptop will last a lot longer there than when one gets toted around and open-closed and spilled near and all that.
In any case, if you decide on a Windows machine, you should live well and happy enough using AVG and any browser except IE. You'll want to use Dropbox or similar to offsite your can't-lose files (just as you would on a Mac), but Windows software is pretty much past the "you must keep your installation disks and registration key" era now.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:35 AM on January 31, 2015
You don't say if you work on a PC for work. If so, you're probably capable of using one without being completely baffled.
And I miss being able to watch movies on my laptop.
I would actually make a case for a tablet here, or a flexible PC like a Lenovo Yoga or a Surface (one of these two will be my next work-issued laptop), but that's mostly because I do not really sit at my desk to watch movies. I want to watch on the coffee table from the couch, or in bed, or outside at the patio table. If you really do stay at your desk, I think a $400 laptop will last a lot longer there than when one gets toted around and open-closed and spilled near and all that.
In any case, if you decide on a Windows machine, you should live well and happy enough using AVG and any browser except IE. You'll want to use Dropbox or similar to offsite your can't-lose files (just as you would on a Mac), but Windows software is pretty much past the "you must keep your installation disks and registration key" era now.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:35 AM on January 31, 2015
I just want to say that as a Mac user, I have noticed the build quality of their products decreasing each year. I have a friend whose Macbook Pro lasted him eight years. My 2011 Macbook Pro is pretty much at the end of its life, and my 2014 Macbook Pro feels even less solid from a build quality standpoint.
Just something to consider. I would be very surprised if the current gen Macbooks will last as long as your current laptop.
A Chromebook might be a good option for you though it may be limited when it comes to games.
posted by alligatorman at 8:37 AM on January 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just something to consider. I would be very surprised if the current gen Macbooks will last as long as your current laptop.
A Chromebook might be a good option for you though it may be limited when it comes to games.
posted by alligatorman at 8:37 AM on January 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've had good luck with refurbished macs from Apple. Several MacBook Air choices under $1k here:
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_air
posted by cosmac at 8:37 AM on January 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_air
posted by cosmac at 8:37 AM on January 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Ditto considering a Surface. We just got a Surface 3 at work and they are super sweet machines. They are right at the top of your price range though---Mac Air competitors. I would make sure to buy an Intel version if you go this route. The non-Intel Win RT (arm) series are being orphaned.
Tablets are a fabulous way to watch movies and read papers and books and comics. OMG they are great for comics.
Otherwise, we've now got 4 or 5 Lenovos in the immediate family as personal laptops. Aside from a few minor, fixable issues (failed keyboard on one, some battery swaps), they just keep chugging. The 5 and 6 year-old ones are still perfectly usable for everything you are asking for. Slap a decent antimalware package on there (see Deezil's profile for info) and they're basically maintenance free in my experience.
But, if you're happy with Macs, stick with Apple. There are significant costs, time and money, in software and iTunes media migration, to switching. I would take a very long look at an iPad though. Get a bluetooth keyboard and you may find that's all you need.
posted by bonehead at 9:39 AM on January 31, 2015
Tablets are a fabulous way to watch movies and read papers and books and comics. OMG they are great for comics.
Otherwise, we've now got 4 or 5 Lenovos in the immediate family as personal laptops. Aside from a few minor, fixable issues (failed keyboard on one, some battery swaps), they just keep chugging. The 5 and 6 year-old ones are still perfectly usable for everything you are asking for. Slap a decent antimalware package on there (see Deezil's profile for info) and they're basically maintenance free in my experience.
But, if you're happy with Macs, stick with Apple. There are significant costs, time and money, in software and iTunes media migration, to switching. I would take a very long look at an iPad though. Get a bluetooth keyboard and you may find that's all you need.
posted by bonehead at 9:39 AM on January 31, 2015
I'd hold out for a bit longer. Apple is supposed to be announcing a 12" fanless macbook air soon. I'd wait for that to drop.
If you've used Macs for years, stick to Macs.
posted by NotSoSiniSter at 10:15 AM on January 31, 2015
If you've used Macs for years, stick to Macs.
posted by NotSoSiniSter at 10:15 AM on January 31, 2015
I've averaged about 7 years of heavy daily usage out of a PB and MBP. They weren't perfect machines but when I bought an HP, it felt like a heavy, plastic hunk of junk and I couldn't stand stomping out notices every time I turned it on. The battery died in a couple years as well.
One thing I've changed my mind on regarding apple laptops is the wisdom in getting all the bells and whistles and "future proofing" them. I think it makes more sense to buy more often (for me, anyway).
I got a couple refurbished laptops for relatives and they've been great.
posted by bonobothegreat at 10:41 AM on January 31, 2015
One thing I've changed my mind on regarding apple laptops is the wisdom in getting all the bells and whistles and "future proofing" them. I think it makes more sense to buy more often (for me, anyway).
I got a couple refurbished laptops for relatives and they've been great.
posted by bonobothegreat at 10:41 AM on January 31, 2015
If you've been happy with a Mac, still with the Mac.
If you want to pinch pennies, that's your choice, but it's expensive to be poor. I doubt you'll get such a long life out of a $400 PC.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:08 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you want to pinch pennies, that's your choice, but it's expensive to be poor. I doubt you'll get such a long life out of a $400 PC.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:08 AM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm still satisfied with my mid 2010 macbook pro, although it took a solid state drive and an 8gb ram upgrade to get it there. I do "serious" things with it like compile oodles of code, run Linux and Windows in virtualbox, and edit photographs. Really, it seems like the breakneck pace of computer upgrades hit a wall with the multicore revolution and I just can't justify a fancy i7 for personal use (caveat: the last PC game I played was half life 2, so....)
So if you want to save money pick up a 2011 or 2012 MBP secondhand/refurb (although Macs have infuriatingly strong resale value).
posted by dis_integration at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2015
So if you want to save money pick up a 2011 or 2012 MBP secondhand/refurb (although Macs have infuriatingly strong resale value).
posted by dis_integration at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2015
Just to throw a twist in here, I own a Macbook Air and an Ipad Air 2 (Santa was good to me this year), and I find myself turning to the Ipad more and more for Metafilter, other web surfing, watching videos (that Retina screen is astoundingly clear), reading, and email. With an external keyboard, it's a far more portable writing device than even my Macbook Air.
My suggestion: think about getting yourself a cheap laptop for at-home computing, and an Ipad for Metafilter, videos, basically everything else. That would still land you under 1K.
posted by mylittlepoppet at 11:42 AM on January 31, 2015
My suggestion: think about getting yourself a cheap laptop for at-home computing, and an Ipad for Metafilter, videos, basically everything else. That would still land you under 1K.
posted by mylittlepoppet at 11:42 AM on January 31, 2015
You just got 7 years out of your last Apple laptop. Let's say you payed $1500 for it. That means it cost you a little over $200 a year to own it. You get what you pay for. A $400 disposable Dell or HP will be making you crazy in two years...
Hello from my Dell Inspiron which I bought 3 years ago for way less than half the cost of an Apple. It replaced an Acer I bought 5 years before that for €249. On this laptop I run multiple browser instances, create documents and spreadsheets, edit video, run Photoshop, game online and play local games, and reboot... about once every 6 weeks.
It was cheap, it is a workhorse, and absolutely none of the things that commenter said are true. If the weight advantage of the Air is not a major selling point because you rarely go anywhere, then I am not seeing a major advantage to buying Apple.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hello from my Dell Inspiron which I bought 3 years ago for way less than half the cost of an Apple. It replaced an Acer I bought 5 years before that for €249. On this laptop I run multiple browser instances, create documents and spreadsheets, edit video, run Photoshop, game online and play local games, and reboot... about once every 6 weeks.
It was cheap, it is a workhorse, and absolutely none of the things that commenter said are true. If the weight advantage of the Air is not a major selling point because you rarely go anywhere, then I am not seeing a major advantage to buying Apple.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
What's interesting about the Chromebook is how slow it is, for what it does. It is a web browser in a laptop — that's it. That's all it has to do, browse web pages, and it is surprisingly sluggish at that task. A tablet will do much more than a Chromebook and will probably run faster.
If you go cheap, I would strongly recommend that you:
* Try before you buy, preferably for an extended period of time (like a week)
* Make sure the vendor you buy from has a 0% restocking fee, in case you need to return it
I think Apple is the only vendor that does not charge a restocking fee, but that might have changed. Microsoft puts their Surface up against Apple MacBook Airs, so if you buy a Surface in a Microsoft Store, you might not get a restocking fee — you might want to check, first. You might also call up Dell and HP customer support and ask what their policies are, in this respect.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:17 PM on January 31, 2015
If you go cheap, I would strongly recommend that you:
* Try before you buy, preferably for an extended period of time (like a week)
* Make sure the vendor you buy from has a 0% restocking fee, in case you need to return it
I think Apple is the only vendor that does not charge a restocking fee, but that might have changed. Microsoft puts their Surface up against Apple MacBook Airs, so if you buy a Surface in a Microsoft Store, you might not get a restocking fee — you might want to check, first. You might also call up Dell and HP customer support and ask what their policies are, in this respect.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:17 PM on January 31, 2015
Keep in mind that if you get a Windows laptop, you'll probably be stuck with Windows 8. My hate for Windows 8 is such that I personally will never return to PCs, cheaper or not. Plenty of cheaper PCs last for reasonably long periods of time, but uuuugggghhh Windows 8. If you haven't tried Windows 8 yet, make sure you can live with it before committing to a PC.
posted by yasaman at 1:56 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 1:56 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If all you are doing is basic stuff, viruses are pretty unlikely. A free anti-virus program will handle that and you'll never really think about it. I use Avast as my free antivirus, and it blocks me from visiting sketchy websites. I've used both Macs and Windows PCs and I personally find PCs easier to use and much easier to multitask on.
I'm not sure what sort of games we are talking about. If you want to play Candy Crush, then a Mac is fine. But if you want to play serious PC games, like for instance the very-popular Skyrim, you need a PC. Many "real" do not come out on Macs, or they come out on Macs later than they do PCs.
If you don't take your laptop places, would you consider a desktop? A desktop computer is really the ultimate value for your dollar. Laptops cost more because all the parts are smaller and have to be assembled in a special way. A desktop, however, you literally can build yourself. I've built my last two desktops. You don't sound like you have the know-how or interest in building a computer, and that's fine, but the nice thing about having a desktop is that if one part of it stops working right, you can replace only that part instead of getting an entire new computer. PC running slow? Open it up and slot another RAM stick or two in. Games are only playing on the lowest graphics resolution setting? Get an upgraded video card and swap it out. Easy.
Personally, I use my desktop for everything and I use my office laptop when I travel. In the past, I used a desktop and bought a cheap Chromebook or netbook to use when I traveled.
I agree Windows 8 sucks, but you can make it feel like Windows 7 via suggestions here.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:23 PM on January 31, 2015
I'm not sure what sort of games we are talking about. If you want to play Candy Crush, then a Mac is fine. But if you want to play serious PC games, like for instance the very-popular Skyrim, you need a PC. Many "real" do not come out on Macs, or they come out on Macs later than they do PCs.
If you don't take your laptop places, would you consider a desktop? A desktop computer is really the ultimate value for your dollar. Laptops cost more because all the parts are smaller and have to be assembled in a special way. A desktop, however, you literally can build yourself. I've built my last two desktops. You don't sound like you have the know-how or interest in building a computer, and that's fine, but the nice thing about having a desktop is that if one part of it stops working right, you can replace only that part instead of getting an entire new computer. PC running slow? Open it up and slot another RAM stick or two in. Games are only playing on the lowest graphics resolution setting? Get an upgraded video card and swap it out. Easy.
Personally, I use my desktop for everything and I use my office laptop when I travel. In the past, I used a desktop and bought a cheap Chromebook or netbook to use when I traveled.
I agree Windows 8 sucks, but you can make it feel like Windows 7 via suggestions here.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:23 PM on January 31, 2015
Get a Chromebook if you only use the web. The verge has a buying guide.
posted by oxit at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2015
posted by oxit at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2015
Maybe someone here can address screen quality in low-end PC laptops compared to what you're used to? I bought a cheap Acer tablet and it's basically unusable for reading more than a paragraph or two because the screen is crap. (That Acer isn't a reason not to get a PC, of course.)
posted by Room 641-A at 2:34 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 2:34 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If all you want to do is browse the internet, a Chromebook or tablet will work. You can even get a bluetooth keyboard for a tablet to make it more typing-friendly.
Macs do cost more. But you get more. Windows I generally find to be frustrating to use. As an adept computer user, do I struggle to use it? No, I don't. But there's a lot of things about windows that are utterly aggravating, and I've watched a lot of people switch to OS X over the years. Don't know one who switched back. Is native software quality something that matters to you? The bar for software quality on OS X is much, much higher than on Windows. Chromebooks aren't about native software. I like native software much more than the web, but I'm not on Facebook at all. What works for me isn't what necessarily matters to you.
Regarding build quality, my Mac is now on year seven and runs faster than when I got it (I did upgrade it, I do a lot of photo and video work). I view computers as something worth paying more for, because you'll enjoy the time you spend on it better. It sounds like you use your computer for leisure time. Let's say you spend a few hundred hours on it a year. Wouldn't you prefer to enjoy those hours more? Just as a small example, my girlfriend finds the keyboard on her new macbook pro better than any keyboard she's ever used in her life. She just switched from years of using windows, and found her cheap PC laptop generally dissatisfying.
As to why somebody would complain about build quality on Macs declining, then recommending a cheap Chromebook instead, I cannot fathom how that makes sense. For what it's worth, anybody who remembers when Macs were primarily made of plastic can't seriously think build quality is lower today.
We make this odd mistake where we think low cost is the attribute to prioritize among all others. Speaking as someone who has bought a ton of electronics over the years, it's much better to buy something you enjoy using. Better to pay more and enjoy more. This applies to tablets, computers, cameras.
Regarding games, plenty of fantastic games can be had on steam, cheaply, especially during sales, or via humble bundles, which won't take much horsepower at all; any low end computer can manage them. You've a wealth of options.
Refurbished macs are as good as new macs, so they're a great way to save cash. If buying a laptop, the mac you want is the macbook air (They may be on the verge of releasing a new, radically different one). If a desktop, the mac mini is decent. You'll need a keyboard and mouse and monitor, but those things can be acquired very cheaply.
Hope that wall of text was useful.
posted by Strudel at 3:10 PM on January 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Macs do cost more. But you get more. Windows I generally find to be frustrating to use. As an adept computer user, do I struggle to use it? No, I don't. But there's a lot of things about windows that are utterly aggravating, and I've watched a lot of people switch to OS X over the years. Don't know one who switched back. Is native software quality something that matters to you? The bar for software quality on OS X is much, much higher than on Windows. Chromebooks aren't about native software. I like native software much more than the web, but I'm not on Facebook at all. What works for me isn't what necessarily matters to you.
Regarding build quality, my Mac is now on year seven and runs faster than when I got it (I did upgrade it, I do a lot of photo and video work). I view computers as something worth paying more for, because you'll enjoy the time you spend on it better. It sounds like you use your computer for leisure time. Let's say you spend a few hundred hours on it a year. Wouldn't you prefer to enjoy those hours more? Just as a small example, my girlfriend finds the keyboard on her new macbook pro better than any keyboard she's ever used in her life. She just switched from years of using windows, and found her cheap PC laptop generally dissatisfying.
As to why somebody would complain about build quality on Macs declining, then recommending a cheap Chromebook instead, I cannot fathom how that makes sense. For what it's worth, anybody who remembers when Macs were primarily made of plastic can't seriously think build quality is lower today.
We make this odd mistake where we think low cost is the attribute to prioritize among all others. Speaking as someone who has bought a ton of electronics over the years, it's much better to buy something you enjoy using. Better to pay more and enjoy more. This applies to tablets, computers, cameras.
Regarding games, plenty of fantastic games can be had on steam, cheaply, especially during sales, or via humble bundles, which won't take much horsepower at all; any low end computer can manage them. You've a wealth of options.
Refurbished macs are as good as new macs, so they're a great way to save cash. If buying a laptop, the mac you want is the macbook air (They may be on the verge of releasing a new, radically different one). If a desktop, the mac mini is decent. You'll need a keyboard and mouse and monitor, but those things can be acquired very cheaply.
Hope that wall of text was useful.
posted by Strudel at 3:10 PM on January 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
My Mac Book Pro is very old now (bought in 2009 I think) and about a year ago I replaced it with this Asus laptop and have been very pleased. I think the quality/price ratio was very good (bought on sale). There is no DVD drive though.
With Windows 8.1 I rely on Windows Defender and good computer hygiene practices to keep the viruses at bay. I know the Metro interface of Windows 8 annoys people but the Windows-D and Windows-X key combinations are your friends.
So along with my Acer Netbook running Ubuntu and my ancient Mac Book Pro, this is by far my favorite. Also, just one data point, my MBP had track pad and battery problems in that time period.
posted by forthright at 3:27 PM on January 31, 2015
With Windows 8.1 I rely on Windows Defender and good computer hygiene practices to keep the viruses at bay. I know the Metro interface of Windows 8 annoys people but the Windows-D and Windows-X key combinations are your friends.
So along with my Acer Netbook running Ubuntu and my ancient Mac Book Pro, this is by far my favorite. Also, just one data point, my MBP had track pad and battery problems in that time period.
posted by forthright at 3:27 PM on January 31, 2015
Keep in mind that if you get a Windows laptop, you'll probably be stuck with Windows 8. My hate for Windows 8 is such that I personally will never return to PCs, cheaper or not. Plenty of cheaper PCs last for reasonably long periods of time, but uuuugggghhh Windows 8. If you haven't tried Windows 8 yet, make sure you can live with it before committing to a PC.
Except Windows 10 is nearly upon us and will be a free upgrade for anyone who gets around to it within the first year. So stick with your mac if you like but not for the reasons these commenters are telling you.
posted by juiceanddoom at 3:50 PM on January 31, 2015
Except Windows 10 is nearly upon us and will be a free upgrade for anyone who gets around to it within the first year. So stick with your mac if you like but not for the reasons these commenters are telling you.
posted by juiceanddoom at 3:50 PM on January 31, 2015
My Mid-2010 Macbook pro is also getting to its last legs. My husband runs Linux and has a really nice Asus that he got for around $900 or so. His laptop is very sturdy and really fast. I'm not against non-Macs but I have a horrible time navigating on Windows. So if you're used to a Mac, try to go with Mac. I also tend to shop Refurbs and have never had a problem.
I also use Windows at work and still can't wait to get back to my Mac, but I have used them my whole life. If you'd be willing to run Linux or something though - which can often be similar to Mac in style and feel - then you could do a higher end PC that should last a while for that price.
posted by Crystalinne at 3:55 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also use Windows at work and still can't wait to get back to my Mac, but I have used them my whole life. If you'd be willing to run Linux or something though - which can often be similar to Mac in style and feel - then you could do a higher end PC that should last a while for that price.
posted by Crystalinne at 3:55 PM on January 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do not get a $400 PC. Do not get a $700 PC. I have one at work and although the specs look great on paper, after a few months it slowed to a crawl and often I am convinced it's haunted. Everyone in my office has cheap PC laptops and we all hate them.
I mean you got SEVEN years out of your Mac? You're definitely not going to get that from a PC. The last PC I owned (an IBM T-series, which is a quality computer) got 4 years and I considered that great.
Not only is AppleCare absurdly useful and for 3 years at that, you can often extend the life of your computer with a relatively inexpensive repair post-AppleCare. My SO has a 2011 MBP that was going great until a week ago when it totally crashed. He brought it to the Apple Store and for $350 they basically replaced the whole computer: Logic board, keyboard, case, screen, hard drive...maybe they kept the same optical drive? Seriously. That's longevity.
posted by radioamy at 10:51 PM on January 31, 2015
I mean you got SEVEN years out of your Mac? You're definitely not going to get that from a PC. The last PC I owned (an IBM T-series, which is a quality computer) got 4 years and I considered that great.
Not only is AppleCare absurdly useful and for 3 years at that, you can often extend the life of your computer with a relatively inexpensive repair post-AppleCare. My SO has a 2011 MBP that was going great until a week ago when it totally crashed. He brought it to the Apple Store and for $350 they basically replaced the whole computer: Logic board, keyboard, case, screen, hard drive...maybe they kept the same optical drive? Seriously. That's longevity.
posted by radioamy at 10:51 PM on January 31, 2015
Oh yeah, even a 5 year old Mac laptop might be worth cleaning up, upgrading the RAM and maybe the battery and hard drive, and keeping on the road another couple of years if your use is really as limited as you say. Determine if your model can run OSX Mavericks or Yosemite, and if so I'd go to 4GB RAM. You might be very satisfied for $80 worth of memory.
To second this... I'm also typing this comment on a seven year old Macbook (2008 Macbook Pro). I've been using it heavily for development work, and I've run it through the wringer by actually using it as a portable machine. Still it goes.
I've done some repairs and upgrades on it, to be sure (maxed out RAM at 4GB and replaced the drive with an SSD two years ago, and I just replaced a failing keyboard and noisy fan last week). And at this age, I have no guarantee something else won't fail catastrophically at any moment.
But it's acting pretty darn serviceable.
If your primary complaint is that you're finding performance suffers using multiple browser tabs, playing videos, or loading pages with lots of images, before getting something new I would consider:
- trying other browsers: my experience is that Safari is really bad with this, and Chrome does *much* better.
- Maxing out the RAM, as it tends to be cheap in older machines and often gives a good performance boost.
If that doesn't help, maybe it's time for a new machine.
posted by weston at 11:05 PM on January 31, 2015
To second this... I'm also typing this comment on a seven year old Macbook (2008 Macbook Pro). I've been using it heavily for development work, and I've run it through the wringer by actually using it as a portable machine. Still it goes.
I've done some repairs and upgrades on it, to be sure (maxed out RAM at 4GB and replaced the drive with an SSD two years ago, and I just replaced a failing keyboard and noisy fan last week). And at this age, I have no guarantee something else won't fail catastrophically at any moment.
But it's acting pretty darn serviceable.
If your primary complaint is that you're finding performance suffers using multiple browser tabs, playing videos, or loading pages with lots of images, before getting something new I would consider:
- trying other browsers: my experience is that Safari is really bad with this, and Chrome does *much* better.
- Maxing out the RAM, as it tends to be cheap in older machines and often gives a good performance boost.
If that doesn't help, maybe it's time for a new machine.
posted by weston at 11:05 PM on January 31, 2015
As far as staying power goes, I have experience with Dell and Thinkpads (proper X or T series ones, not the fake Thinkpads that look like all other laptops out there. The Dell I bought in 2008 lasted well into its 5th year, with only minor cosmetic wear to speak of. I didn't carry it around a lot because it was a 15" beast. My Thinkpads have been great for build quality, though this seems to have gone down slightly over time.
Since Thinkpads often come with a long warranty (even valid worldwide), it's possible to pick up a little-used bargain at a fraction of the cost of retail. My X230 was barely 2 months old when I got it, and came with almost a full 3 year warranty. I paid a little over half of the retail price. Have a look at the used Thinkpad buyers guide for more ideas.
As for staying virus, malware and crapperware-free, just use Linux. My personal opinion is that if an OS requires extra software to remain secure, it's doing it all wrong. The added bonus is that Linux distributions tend to be much lighter on resources than Windows, which adds to the longevity of the machine. And if you need Windows applications not available on Linux, just set up a virtual machine and you'll have Windows in its own window.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 5:29 AM on February 1, 2015
Since Thinkpads often come with a long warranty (even valid worldwide), it's possible to pick up a little-used bargain at a fraction of the cost of retail. My X230 was barely 2 months old when I got it, and came with almost a full 3 year warranty. I paid a little over half of the retail price. Have a look at the used Thinkpad buyers guide for more ideas.
As for staying virus, malware and crapperware-free, just use Linux. My personal opinion is that if an OS requires extra software to remain secure, it's doing it all wrong. The added bonus is that Linux distributions tend to be much lighter on resources than Windows, which adds to the longevity of the machine. And if you need Windows applications not available on Linux, just set up a virtual machine and you'll have Windows in its own window.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 5:29 AM on February 1, 2015
Response by poster: Thanks for the all the input and suggestions. There's a lot to think about here.
Following up on a few items:
* My mac cannot run OSX Mavericks or Yosemite and can't handle more memory
* I haven't tried installing Linux before - if this is more complicated than googling "how to install linux" and following the first thing that comes up, I might need a bit more detail on that.
* I use PCs/Windows at work and have for years; I switch back and forth pretty easily.
posted by bunderful at 7:08 AM on February 1, 2015
Following up on a few items:
* My mac cannot run OSX Mavericks or Yosemite and can't handle more memory
* I haven't tried installing Linux before - if this is more complicated than googling "how to install linux" and following the first thing that comes up, I might need a bit more detail on that.
* I use PCs/Windows at work and have for years; I switch back and forth pretty easily.
posted by bunderful at 7:08 AM on February 1, 2015
My gen1 white mb is 10+ years old. Granted it will not run Yosemite or Mavericks (it is a core duo not core 2 duo) and in order to be safe I must use Firefox --it still runs just as good today as it did 10 years ago when I paid 1200usd +\- for it.
My wife is on her third toshiba in the same time frame-just sayin'
posted by prk60091 at 9:27 AM on February 1, 2015
My wife is on her third toshiba in the same time frame-just sayin'
posted by prk60091 at 9:27 AM on February 1, 2015
But there's a lot of things about windows that are utterly aggravating, and I've watched a lot of people switch to OS X over the years. Don't know one who switched back.
I did. I used OS X on a MacBook Air for about three years - whenever the first 11" MBAs came out. I loved the hardware, but OS X ... not so much. I found it better than Windows in some ways and worse than Windows in others. That said, I put Windows on the MBA using Boot Camp and spent more time in OS X than Windows on that machine, and I really liked using the MBA until the screen stopped working and I found out it would cost more than $500 to replace it.
I switched to a Surface Pro 3 running Windows 8.1, and I love the hell out of it. I don't care that much for the Metro interface, but it's easy enough to get a Windows 7-style start menu. There was no preinstalled bloatware on it, either. It is on the high end as far as price, but the build quality is fantastic and I love using it.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:56 AM on February 1, 2015
I did. I used OS X on a MacBook Air for about three years - whenever the first 11" MBAs came out. I loved the hardware, but OS X ... not so much. I found it better than Windows in some ways and worse than Windows in others. That said, I put Windows on the MBA using Boot Camp and spent more time in OS X than Windows on that machine, and I really liked using the MBA until the screen stopped working and I found out it would cost more than $500 to replace it.
I switched to a Surface Pro 3 running Windows 8.1, and I love the hell out of it. I don't care that much for the Metro interface, but it's easy enough to get a Windows 7-style start menu. There was no preinstalled bloatware on it, either. It is on the high end as far as price, but the build quality is fantastic and I love using it.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:56 AM on February 1, 2015
Get a Macbook Air or a Maxed out iPad Air with a stand an keyboard.
Don't want to deal with Windows an PC hardware unless its your hoppy to fix it all the time.
posted by Mac-Expert at 9:11 PM on February 1, 2015
Don't want to deal with Windows an PC hardware unless its your hoppy to fix it all the time.
posted by Mac-Expert at 9:11 PM on February 1, 2015
I use PCs/Windows at work and have for years; I switch back and forth pretty easily.
OK, so given the lifecycle of hardware obsolescence, what are the advantages to owning a $1,000 Mac that will last 7 years vs a $500 Windows machine that will last 3.5? I mean, that's the worse case scenario but going with that: at the end of the Windows machine's lifetime, you get a new one with even better, contemporary-for-2019 hardware specs for the same money.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:23 AM on February 2, 2015
OK, so given the lifecycle of hardware obsolescence, what are the advantages to owning a $1,000 Mac that will last 7 years vs a $500 Windows machine that will last 3.5? I mean, that's the worse case scenario but going with that: at the end of the Windows machine's lifetime, you get a new one with even better, contemporary-for-2019 hardware specs for the same money.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:23 AM on February 2, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
I use Firefox browser to keep viruses at bay, and I run Malwarebytes every so often.
Don't spend the dough. A $400 Toshiba from Office Depot will serve you just fine. (the one we bought for Husbunny when his Macbook bit it.)
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:55 AM on January 31, 2015