Is there a place in the kink community for the not-especially-kinky?
January 9, 2015 12:12 PM Subscribe
I am interested in attending a kink-community meetup in a mid-size, left-leaning U.S. city and I am wondering what to expect, and whether it seems likely that I would meet any like-minded people and sex partners.
I am an early-forties hetero single man, in decent shape, pretty “normal” looking. I am not so interested in specific kinks, as in finding partners with an relative lack of sexual inhibition compared to the culture at large. I have interests that one might call fetishistic, but overall my sexual leanings are relatively vanilla. Above all, I want a more interesting sexual life, one not bound up in committed relationships but also not based on pickups in the conventional sense. If I could have a few regular sexual partners untied to the ordinary expectations of dating and romance, and more along the lines of just friendship, I would be very happy. (Online dating is another thing I am pursuing, but I want this discussion just limited to the feasibility of the kink community for my interests.)
My idea is that, similar to how people are advised to take improv classes even if they don’t have any particular interest in comedy or theater, I might explore the kink community as a way to meet sexually healthy, liberated people who are not so tied to conventional sexual norms. Is it realistic to think that, much like improv can be a path to being more outgoing and meeting cool people, can the kink community be a path to being more sexually liberated?
Here are my questions …
…. It seems odd to just show up at a kink meetup without knowing anyone. Do you have any suggestions for making this less awkward than I imagine it will be?
…. Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
…. How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community? I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people but that perception is probably unfair and comes from a place of total ignorance so I would like people who’ve been in this scene to weigh in.
…. Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
.... How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
…. Answers along the lines of "Nooooooo you'll be just one of a few dozen sad, gross fortysomething men vying for the attention of a handful of women" are totally welcome ... I want to know all the ugly truths about my plan if that's what your experience suggests.
I am an early-forties hetero single man, in decent shape, pretty “normal” looking. I am not so interested in specific kinks, as in finding partners with an relative lack of sexual inhibition compared to the culture at large. I have interests that one might call fetishistic, but overall my sexual leanings are relatively vanilla. Above all, I want a more interesting sexual life, one not bound up in committed relationships but also not based on pickups in the conventional sense. If I could have a few regular sexual partners untied to the ordinary expectations of dating and romance, and more along the lines of just friendship, I would be very happy. (Online dating is another thing I am pursuing, but I want this discussion just limited to the feasibility of the kink community for my interests.)
My idea is that, similar to how people are advised to take improv classes even if they don’t have any particular interest in comedy or theater, I might explore the kink community as a way to meet sexually healthy, liberated people who are not so tied to conventional sexual norms. Is it realistic to think that, much like improv can be a path to being more outgoing and meeting cool people, can the kink community be a path to being more sexually liberated?
Here are my questions …
…. It seems odd to just show up at a kink meetup without knowing anyone. Do you have any suggestions for making this less awkward than I imagine it will be?
…. Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
…. How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community? I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people but that perception is probably unfair and comes from a place of total ignorance so I would like people who’ve been in this scene to weigh in.
…. Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
.... How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
…. Answers along the lines of "Nooooooo you'll be just one of a few dozen sad, gross fortysomething men vying for the attention of a handful of women" are totally welcome ... I want to know all the ugly truths about my plan if that's what your experience suggests.
You have a lot of assumptions that are just plain false.
1. Sure, go to the meetup. No one will look at you weird if you're truly there to explore the scene.
2. People with kinks want to meet other people with those kinks, and they may want to fall in love, marry, be in committed relationships. They are not mutually exclusive. They don't want to meet someone who's not into those kinks. Full Stop.
3. Not very, actually. In my experience, those who enjoy kinky sex are VERY in tune with who they are, what they like and they're open to experiencing it honestly. Is there an occasional basket case or creep? Sure, but the rest of the folks aren't any more comfortable with them than you would be.
4. Not really. Improv hones a particular skill in acting that can be transferred to other things. Kinky sex isn't a gateway, or a secret room full of GIRLZ WHO WANT TO FUCK.
5. The same way it does in a regular meet up. Some people are promiscuous, some aren't, some like something very specific, others are flexible. It may surprise you to know that kinky people are just regular folks who like something different with their sex.
6. This is entirely up to you. If you're really mostly interested in finding women to fuck who don't want a commitment, well, that's kind of creepy, wouldn't you say? Why not just go on Craigslist and hook up with people that way?
I once met a guy who only wanted a woman who would give him blow jobs. He wasn't interested in a relationship, or in having any other kind of sex. He just thought that there was a woman out there who only wanted to give him blow jobs. Bless his heart.
If you were honestly interested in exploring the kink scene, I would encourage you to go, but if that's not what you're into, you would just be a tourist and unwelcome. Might you meet someone who's into what you're into? Someone wins the lottery, it could happen. But it's no more probable to happen than if you were to stand on a street corner and ask passers by to give you blowjobs.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:38 PM on January 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
1. Sure, go to the meetup. No one will look at you weird if you're truly there to explore the scene.
2. People with kinks want to meet other people with those kinks, and they may want to fall in love, marry, be in committed relationships. They are not mutually exclusive. They don't want to meet someone who's not into those kinks. Full Stop.
3. Not very, actually. In my experience, those who enjoy kinky sex are VERY in tune with who they are, what they like and they're open to experiencing it honestly. Is there an occasional basket case or creep? Sure, but the rest of the folks aren't any more comfortable with them than you would be.
4. Not really. Improv hones a particular skill in acting that can be transferred to other things. Kinky sex isn't a gateway, or a secret room full of GIRLZ WHO WANT TO FUCK.
5. The same way it does in a regular meet up. Some people are promiscuous, some aren't, some like something very specific, others are flexible. It may surprise you to know that kinky people are just regular folks who like something different with their sex.
6. This is entirely up to you. If you're really mostly interested in finding women to fuck who don't want a commitment, well, that's kind of creepy, wouldn't you say? Why not just go on Craigslist and hook up with people that way?
I once met a guy who only wanted a woman who would give him blow jobs. He wasn't interested in a relationship, or in having any other kind of sex. He just thought that there was a woman out there who only wanted to give him blow jobs. Bless his heart.
If you were honestly interested in exploring the kink scene, I would encourage you to go, but if that's not what you're into, you would just be a tourist and unwelcome. Might you meet someone who's into what you're into? Someone wins the lottery, it could happen. But it's no more probable to happen than if you were to stand on a street corner and ask passers by to give you blowjobs.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:38 PM on January 9, 2015 [21 favorites]
They don't want to meet someone who's not into those kinks.
This. That's the whole point of joining a group like that, is to weed out people who aren't going to be into what you're into. I don't think this is going to work out for you. If it were me, and I met you or heard from others who had and found out you weren't into BDSM when it's a BDSM group...I would think badly of your motives. I don't know if that's fair or not but that's how I would feel.
Source: kinky for years, been in a few different groups.
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:43 PM on January 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
This. That's the whole point of joining a group like that, is to weed out people who aren't going to be into what you're into. I don't think this is going to work out for you. If it were me, and I met you or heard from others who had and found out you weren't into BDSM when it's a BDSM group...I would think badly of your motives. I don't know if that's fair or not but that's how I would feel.
Source: kinky for years, been in a few different groups.
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:43 PM on January 9, 2015 [9 favorites]
You might be better off exploring polyamory meetups rather than kink, inasmuch as there's a difference in your area. Though I'd second the recommendation of just sticking to OKC or PoF if you aren't interested in becoming an active member.
(Disclaimer: Not on either OKC or PoF.)
posted by Gelatin at 12:46 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
(Disclaimer: Not on either OKC or PoF.)
posted by Gelatin at 12:46 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I think you're conflating the kink community with the polyamory community. There's overlap, but there's also overlap between polyamorous people and people who want plain ol' vanilla sex.
posted by Anonymous at 12:49 PM on January 9, 2015
posted by Anonymous at 12:49 PM on January 9, 2015
It seems odd to just show up at a kink meetup without knowing anyone. Do you have any suggestions for making this less awkward than I imagine it will be?
Many munches will have greeters and they'll recognize new people and say hi and sometimes will pretty much just get you introduced to a couple people. The rest is admittedly up to you. If there's no greeter, see if the meetup has a Fetlife group and try posting in it to say hi and mention that you're gonna be there.
Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
This is going to be different depending on where you go but I find that there's a fair bit of overlap between the kinky people and the swingers. Swingers are probably who you're looking for here. They come to munches and sometimes play parties.
How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community?
Again, depends on the scene where you are. What I can tell you is that the issue usually isn't with the creeps but with an overabundance of tolerance for creeps. In practice, this means that somehow has to be especially, unusually socially awkward before anyone is willing to do anything about it, and generally that means they just won't get invited to play parties. They can and do still show up at munches and public events like classes and whatnot; this is compounded by an overall fear by kinky folk of being outed. A local munch of mine takes place at a mall food court and a lot of people have been tolerated far more than is helpful because the organizers aren't willing to make a stink with the people who actually run the place - to do so is to risk having the meetup shut down by people who don't consider it worth the trouble to be associated with the stigma of kinky people. Also, there's a pretty big percentage of kink communities that is made up of geeks and they tend to view social exclusion as something Bad People do, even when it's the best thing for the situation.
Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
No, but your question isn't about how to make good analogies, so don't worry about it.
How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
Same as anywhere else. Go to a meetup. Be friendly and make friends. Network. Demonstrate that you're cool and sane and become a known quantity. The rest will fall into place without terribly much difficulty. The best advice I can give you here is that you should be thinking of everyone you meet as potential new friends, not potential new lays. If you're obviously on the make, it will show - this is common at these meetups and they know it when they see it more often than not. Basically, treat it as a meetup and not as a singles night. The kind of women you're looking to meet exist at these meetups, and generally they have their pick of who they choose to spend their time with, so you need to demonstrate that it's a good idea to give that time to you.
Answers along the lines of "Nooooooo you'll be just one of a few dozen sad, gross fortysomething men vying for the attention of a handful of women" are totally welcome
See above. Be conscious of your own behavior and don't let your motivations dictate it too much. Be friendly with everyone you meet, not just the people you think you might want to have sex with. Be prepared for it to take a while for doors open to you and be as cool as you can in the meantime. If you get the kind of sex you want, be cool about it and also be cool if you wind up parting sexual company with someone - kink communities are awesome but they're also scenes in every sense and can be as gossipy as any other, and if you're careless with the feelings of others, work will get around.
You may very well find yourself being one of a couple fortysomething men who all want the same thing; in that case, my advice is again to do what you can to distinguish yourself, and to demonstrate that you are worth someone's time. Do this by being the most interesting, charming, fun person you can be, not by cutting others down.
Before anything sexual happens with anyone, you will want to lay out your expectations with them; if you know you don't want a relationship, you need to say that while the clothes are on. The kink community has a high proportion of people with the attitudes towards sex you're talking about here - people who are polyamorous and are okay with the kind of thing you're after, but you're still gonna need to treat them like people and go to the effort of making them feel like more than just a hookup.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Many munches will have greeters and they'll recognize new people and say hi and sometimes will pretty much just get you introduced to a couple people. The rest is admittedly up to you. If there's no greeter, see if the meetup has a Fetlife group and try posting in it to say hi and mention that you're gonna be there.
Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
This is going to be different depending on where you go but I find that there's a fair bit of overlap between the kinky people and the swingers. Swingers are probably who you're looking for here. They come to munches and sometimes play parties.
How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community?
Again, depends on the scene where you are. What I can tell you is that the issue usually isn't with the creeps but with an overabundance of tolerance for creeps. In practice, this means that somehow has to be especially, unusually socially awkward before anyone is willing to do anything about it, and generally that means they just won't get invited to play parties. They can and do still show up at munches and public events like classes and whatnot; this is compounded by an overall fear by kinky folk of being outed. A local munch of mine takes place at a mall food court and a lot of people have been tolerated far more than is helpful because the organizers aren't willing to make a stink with the people who actually run the place - to do so is to risk having the meetup shut down by people who don't consider it worth the trouble to be associated with the stigma of kinky people. Also, there's a pretty big percentage of kink communities that is made up of geeks and they tend to view social exclusion as something Bad People do, even when it's the best thing for the situation.
Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
No, but your question isn't about how to make good analogies, so don't worry about it.
How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
Same as anywhere else. Go to a meetup. Be friendly and make friends. Network. Demonstrate that you're cool and sane and become a known quantity. The rest will fall into place without terribly much difficulty. The best advice I can give you here is that you should be thinking of everyone you meet as potential new friends, not potential new lays. If you're obviously on the make, it will show - this is common at these meetups and they know it when they see it more often than not. Basically, treat it as a meetup and not as a singles night. The kind of women you're looking to meet exist at these meetups, and generally they have their pick of who they choose to spend their time with, so you need to demonstrate that it's a good idea to give that time to you.
Answers along the lines of "Nooooooo you'll be just one of a few dozen sad, gross fortysomething men vying for the attention of a handful of women" are totally welcome
See above. Be conscious of your own behavior and don't let your motivations dictate it too much. Be friendly with everyone you meet, not just the people you think you might want to have sex with. Be prepared for it to take a while for doors open to you and be as cool as you can in the meantime. If you get the kind of sex you want, be cool about it and also be cool if you wind up parting sexual company with someone - kink communities are awesome but they're also scenes in every sense and can be as gossipy as any other, and if you're careless with the feelings of others, work will get around.
You may very well find yourself being one of a couple fortysomething men who all want the same thing; in that case, my advice is again to do what you can to distinguish yourself, and to demonstrate that you are worth someone's time. Do this by being the most interesting, charming, fun person you can be, not by cutting others down.
Before anything sexual happens with anyone, you will want to lay out your expectations with them; if you know you don't want a relationship, you need to say that while the clothes are on. The kink community has a high proportion of people with the attitudes towards sex you're talking about here - people who are polyamorous and are okay with the kind of thing you're after, but you're still gonna need to treat them like people and go to the effort of making them feel like more than just a hookup.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:50 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'd like to echo, too, that you need to be honest about what you want, don't want and might be open to, in any situation but especially if you go to a meetup. As others have suggested, you might get a response along the lines of "that isn't really what our group is about, maybe you should move on." But since you want to minimize potential awkwardness, avoiding the drama that comes when people figure out your interests don't actually overlap -- and I'd bet it'd happen sooner rather than later, but it will happen -- seems a good choice.
Plus, one should be open and honest in a relationship anyway, after all. The book The Ethical Slut has been recommended here before, and with good reason, so I suggest you read it as well.
posted by Gelatin at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Plus, one should be open and honest in a relationship anyway, after all. The book The Ethical Slut has been recommended here before, and with good reason, so I suggest you read it as well.
posted by Gelatin at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also it's gonna be different depending on where you are and every scene is different, but my experience has been that while local poly groups will probably be a little more appropriate for what you're looking for, the overlap between people in the kink community and people in the poly community is often very significant. In a lot of situations I've seen, the kink community has a firm core of actual kinky people with a firm interest in meeting and socializing with other kinky people, surrounded by a sort of nebulous mass of folks for whom it's a vaguely-defined social group revolving around common nerdy interests, vaguely (but not uniformly) comparable attitudes about sex, and a general sense of outsider bonding - I've said in the past that going to munches taught me not very much about kink, and a lot about Doctor Who. For this reason, I definitely suggest that if you're going to do this, you go to munches (which are vanilla-appearing meetups) to meet people, and that you don't go to classes or designated kink events which have a clearly-defined or narrow purpose.
That said,
I have interests that one might call fetishistic, but overall my sexual leanings are relatively vanilla.
It would probably help to know what you mean by this. Kink communities are a pretty big tent and accommodate a lot of diverse interests. You'll find that while there are people with the kind of interests you're envisioning (leather, whips and chains, etc), there will also be people whose fetishes don't much overlap with that at all (crossdressers, people who are really really into feet, etc). If you have fetishistic interests, you might not be as out of place as you think, though it really does depend. It's one thing to be an insatiable toe-sucker and another if you just kinda have a thing for redheads.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:08 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said,
I have interests that one might call fetishistic, but overall my sexual leanings are relatively vanilla.
It would probably help to know what you mean by this. Kink communities are a pretty big tent and accommodate a lot of diverse interests. You'll find that while there are people with the kind of interests you're envisioning (leather, whips and chains, etc), there will also be people whose fetishes don't much overlap with that at all (crossdressers, people who are really really into feet, etc). If you have fetishistic interests, you might not be as out of place as you think, though it really does depend. It's one thing to be an insatiable toe-sucker and another if you just kinda have a thing for redheads.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:08 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nthing that you might be better going to poly meet ups than kinky munches but it really depends. Plenty of kinksters also enjoy vanilla sex. Check out FetLife if you haven't yet to see if your not-so-major fetishes are listed and there are groups devoted to them.
You don't sound especially kinky to me. You sound like a GGG guy looking for a GGG gal as FWB or some such. Good luck.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:19 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
You don't sound especially kinky to me. You sound like a GGG guy looking for a GGG gal as FWB or some such. Good luck.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:19 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
People have pretty much said what I was going to say, so as someone who's been around the BDSM scene for 15 years, I'll just second them. Please rethink this plan.
I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people
Then why on earth would you want to go there to meet sex partners?
I agree with internet fraud detective squad that you're the one who would be considered the creepy weirdo at the meetup. You're the guy I'd warn other women about.
posted by desjardins at 1:19 PM on January 9, 2015 [28 favorites]
I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people
Then why on earth would you want to go there to meet sex partners?
I agree with internet fraud detective squad that you're the one who would be considered the creepy weirdo at the meetup. You're the guy I'd warn other women about.
posted by desjardins at 1:19 PM on January 9, 2015 [28 favorites]
Answers along the lines of "Nooooooo you'll be just one of a few dozen sad, gross fortysomething men vying for the attention of a handful of women" are totally welcome.
As a woman in the kink community in a largish city, let me assure you that you won't be vying with just a few dozen. Depending on the overall size of the community, it may be several dozen. In fact, my local community has become nothing but essentially non-kinky men looking for (what they perceive as) loose women.
The available women are, for the most part, desperately looking for someone to A) pay attention to them since they aren't having much luck elsewhere or B) take care of them under the guise of presenting themselves as a submissive, babygirl, etc. in need of "guidance."
The actually kinky folks tend to throw private parties and stay away from public parties and events because they've become quite an unpleasant place to be.
posted by actuallyiam at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
As a woman in the kink community in a largish city, let me assure you that you won't be vying with just a few dozen. Depending on the overall size of the community, it may be several dozen. In fact, my local community has become nothing but essentially non-kinky men looking for (what they perceive as) loose women.
The available women are, for the most part, desperately looking for someone to A) pay attention to them since they aren't having much luck elsewhere or B) take care of them under the guise of presenting themselves as a submissive, babygirl, etc. in need of "guidance."
The actually kinky folks tend to throw private parties and stay away from public parties and events because they've become quite an unpleasant place to be.
posted by actuallyiam at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
I might explore the kink community as a way to meet sexually healthy, liberated people who are not so tied to conventional sexual norms. Is it realistic to think that, much like improv can be a path to being more outgoing and meeting cool people, can the kink community be a path to being more sexually liberated?
Given that some folks are into kink because it is the only way they can get off, I think you are sadly mistaken to think that kinky = "more sexually liberated" or something. That isn't a criticism of people into kink. I am just saying that assuming that because someone gets off to something that is not vanilla means they are more open to other things seems like a major failing of logic to me. That may not be true at all. They may only get off to that specific thing and that's why they are looking for a group of like-minded others, not because their motto is 'anything goes.'
I have talked a smidge with swingers and people into BDSM, though it isn't really my scene. But I see no reason to think they are somehow fundamentally different from vanilla people in the ways you seem to think they are. My limited experience does not fit that assumption.
posted by Michele in California at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Given that some folks are into kink because it is the only way they can get off, I think you are sadly mistaken to think that kinky = "more sexually liberated" or something. That isn't a criticism of people into kink. I am just saying that assuming that because someone gets off to something that is not vanilla means they are more open to other things seems like a major failing of logic to me. That may not be true at all. They may only get off to that specific thing and that's why they are looking for a group of like-minded others, not because their motto is 'anything goes.'
I have talked a smidge with swingers and people into BDSM, though it isn't really my scene. But I see no reason to think they are somehow fundamentally different from vanilla people in the ways you seem to think they are. My limited experience does not fit that assumption.
posted by Michele in California at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you are sadly mistaken to think that kinky = "more sexually liberated" or something.
In addition, I'd be careful of assuming that "more sexually liberated" == "more likely to want a NSA or FWB relationship," or "want multiple relationships or a partner who has same," or anything in particular. Nor is it wise to assume that someone who doesn't want anything is particular isn't "sexually liberated."
posted by Gelatin at 2:26 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
In addition, I'd be careful of assuming that "more sexually liberated" == "more likely to want a NSA or FWB relationship," or "want multiple relationships or a partner who has same," or anything in particular. Nor is it wise to assume that someone who doesn't want anything is particular isn't "sexually liberated."
posted by Gelatin at 2:26 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Absolutely no idea about the link community, however I'm pretty sure it's not hard to find workshops on different kink practices. Don't know if they're meant for couples or what, but you could probably ask your friendly local sex shop.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:28 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but yeah, you're precisely the kind of guy I would probably warn the women in my local kink community about. The thing about kink meetups is that people are going there to meet others interested in kink. You seem to want to go because you think you'll have an easy time meeting promiscuous women for casual sex. Frankly, that's pretty gross.
Do you have any suggestions for making this less awkward than I imagine it will be?
I'd suggest finding local kink groups online and interacting with the community there to alleviate some of the potential awkwardness of going to one without having had any previous exposure to the kink community. It will have the added benefit of showing you whether you're in the right group to find what it is you're looking for or perhaps get you pointed to one more fitting.
Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
There are all sorts of people in the kink communities and thinking of it as a spectrum may help. Some people are more 'vanilla', perhaps only liking occasional light bondage or preferring to keep things all in the imagination, while others are into things you didn't even think were physically possible. Some people even live a 24/7 kink lifestyle. There's all levels of interest.
How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community? I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people but that perception is probably unfair and comes from a place of total ignorance so I would like people who’ve been in this scene to weigh in.
Not higher than any other community I've participated in (furry, anime, comic, gamer, etc.). Perhaps that is part of the reason why I view 'kink' as more of a fandom and therefore incapable of having participation labeled in a specific way -- everyone is really in it for their own reasons, it doesn't mean the same for everyone, and you'll just have to get to know people to find the right crowd for you. I will say the view that you'll be encountering "damaged, nutty, weird people" won't be helpful. In fact, it gives the impression that you already don't think too highly of the participants. And if that's the case, why are you seeking sex with them? When you see the kink community are you just seeing a pool of people you think are down to have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime? Because, while there are certainly some people like that, in my experience they are the minority.
Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
No, your analogy doesn't make sense, at least not given my experience with the kink world. You take an improv class despite a lack of interest in theater because the class can educate you on how to think and speak on your feet, which is valuable in your personal and professional life. You go to a kink meetup because you want to meet other people interested in kink. Some people are there to just make new friends, some are there to find playmates/lovers and some are there to find a potential new life partner. But they go because they expect to meet others who have a general interest in kink. Since you're knowingly not interested in it, there's nothing for you to learn. You're simply using the community as a new source of sex partners, which is a normal thing people do, but let's not gloss over the fact that you're doing so based on a stereotype you've built up in your head about women who participate in the kink community (ie: they'll be promiscuous) and not because you are into kink or want to learn about it.
How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
Just like it does any other way: naturally. There is definitely something to be said about the commonality of kink being used for cathartic reasons and as such the need for a relationship of trust to be built first. In my experience, from "meetup" to "sex" can be several weeks or even several months as each person discusses what they like, their limits, and what the relationship 'rules' will be before progressing. Of course, that's not to say same-day hook-ups don't occur, but I typically only see it among the younger/inexperienced demographic. If you're interested in quick, NSA vanilla sex, then you'll probably be best served by Craigslist or one of the hookup apps where that is precisely what other people are looking for too.
posted by stubbehtail at 3:12 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you have any suggestions for making this less awkward than I imagine it will be?
I'd suggest finding local kink groups online and interacting with the community there to alleviate some of the potential awkwardness of going to one without having had any previous exposure to the kink community. It will have the added benefit of showing you whether you're in the right group to find what it is you're looking for or perhaps get you pointed to one more fitting.
Are there many active participants in the kink community who are mainly interested in less inhibited sex, not so much for the BDSM and other more stereotypical forms of kink?
There are all sorts of people in the kink communities and thinking of it as a spectrum may help. Some people are more 'vanilla', perhaps only liking occasional light bondage or preferring to keep things all in the imagination, while others are into things you didn't even think were physically possible. Some people even live a 24/7 kink lifestyle. There's all levels of interest.
How high is the creep/crazy-factor in the kink community? I have a sort of image of this milieu having many damaged, nutty, weird people but that perception is probably unfair and comes from a place of total ignorance so I would like people who’ve been in this scene to weigh in.
Not higher than any other community I've participated in (furry, anime, comic, gamer, etc.). Perhaps that is part of the reason why I view 'kink' as more of a fandom and therefore incapable of having participation labeled in a specific way -- everyone is really in it for their own reasons, it doesn't mean the same for everyone, and you'll just have to get to know people to find the right crowd for you. I will say the view that you'll be encountering "damaged, nutty, weird people" won't be helpful. In fact, it gives the impression that you already don't think too highly of the participants. And if that's the case, why are you seeking sex with them? When you see the kink community are you just seeing a pool of people you think are down to have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime? Because, while there are certainly some people like that, in my experience they are the minority.
Does my improv analogy make any sense given your experience with the kink world?
No, your analogy doesn't make sense, at least not given my experience with the kink world. You take an improv class despite a lack of interest in theater because the class can educate you on how to think and speak on your feet, which is valuable in your personal and professional life. You go to a kink meetup because you want to meet other people interested in kink. Some people are there to just make new friends, some are there to find playmates/lovers and some are there to find a potential new life partner. But they go because they expect to meet others who have a general interest in kink. Since you're knowingly not interested in it, there's nothing for you to learn. You're simply using the community as a new source of sex partners, which is a normal thing people do, but let's not gloss over the fact that you're doing so based on a stereotype you've built up in your head about women who participate in the kink community (ie: they'll be promiscuous) and not because you are into kink or want to learn about it.
How does the progression from "attending a meetup in a public place" to "actually having sex with someone you met at a meetup" typically work?
Just like it does any other way: naturally. There is definitely something to be said about the commonality of kink being used for cathartic reasons and as such the need for a relationship of trust to be built first. In my experience, from "meetup" to "sex" can be several weeks or even several months as each person discusses what they like, their limits, and what the relationship 'rules' will be before progressing. Of course, that's not to say same-day hook-ups don't occur, but I typically only see it among the younger/inexperienced demographic. If you're interested in quick, NSA vanilla sex, then you'll probably be best served by Craigslist or one of the hookup apps where that is precisely what other people are looking for too.
posted by stubbehtail at 3:12 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
As a lot of others have said above, kink meetups/munches (versus play parties) are a very social environment, so it makes sense to attend if you have a desire to be part of that community and get social needs met on top of your sexual ones. But if all you're looking for is NSA or FWB situations without being that interested in actual kinky sex, why bother? I'm someone who is both kinky and into swinging, but who hasn't engaged much with official kinky community, because my social needs are met through my vanilla friendships, and my sexual needs are met through finding like-minded people through other channels. So if you're not looking for a real sense of community, why not just cut out the middleman and go straight to looking for NSA/FWB sex?
Of course, that does leave the next question, where to find uninhibited but not kinky sex? Some have suggested poly/non-monogamy groups, which could fit better than kinky groups, but my personal experience (which is admittedly minor) with poly social scenes is that people there are often interested in developing multiple relationships (of varying kinds) with multiple people - so if you're not looking for relationships, that might not be the best bet either.
If you're just looking for straightforward NSA friendly everything goes sex with friendly people you're not in a relationship with, I would suggest either looking online for people with similar interests, or looking into the swinger community and possibly look into play parties in the swinger scene. I got my start with uninhibited sex on Craigslist, but have also connected into swinger resources through SwingLifeStyle. I'm in NYC and it sounds like you're in a smaller area, so you may not have as many in-person options, but I'm on a bunch of mailing lists for weekly sex parties and other opportunities for in-person interaction. You may also want to check your local Fetlife event listings - IIRC, there are often listings for a variety of sexually-oriented events/play parties that aren't necessarily kinky (again, depending on your area).
Do take note that if you check out the swinger scene as a single man, the deck is stacked against you in that you'll be one of many single men hoping to get in on some action, and that single men can have a reputation for really coming on hard and sleazy - some swinger events limit the amount of single men to minimize that. And you'll pay a premium to get in. But if you're friendly and respectful without being pushy, you'll have a better chance. And this way you'll be in an environment with people looking for the same thing, instead of the mismatch in the kinky meetups.
(All this said, my partner and I don't even do the swinger parties - we much prefer meeting people one-on-one online, and we've met PLENTY of people into the same thing you're looking for. Feel free to MeMail me if you want any advice on that.)
posted by Neely O'Hara at 3:38 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Of course, that does leave the next question, where to find uninhibited but not kinky sex? Some have suggested poly/non-monogamy groups, which could fit better than kinky groups, but my personal experience (which is admittedly minor) with poly social scenes is that people there are often interested in developing multiple relationships (of varying kinds) with multiple people - so if you're not looking for relationships, that might not be the best bet either.
If you're just looking for straightforward NSA friendly everything goes sex with friendly people you're not in a relationship with, I would suggest either looking online for people with similar interests, or looking into the swinger community and possibly look into play parties in the swinger scene. I got my start with uninhibited sex on Craigslist, but have also connected into swinger resources through SwingLifeStyle. I'm in NYC and it sounds like you're in a smaller area, so you may not have as many in-person options, but I'm on a bunch of mailing lists for weekly sex parties and other opportunities for in-person interaction. You may also want to check your local Fetlife event listings - IIRC, there are often listings for a variety of sexually-oriented events/play parties that aren't necessarily kinky (again, depending on your area).
Do take note that if you check out the swinger scene as a single man, the deck is stacked against you in that you'll be one of many single men hoping to get in on some action, and that single men can have a reputation for really coming on hard and sleazy - some swinger events limit the amount of single men to minimize that. And you'll pay a premium to get in. But if you're friendly and respectful without being pushy, you'll have a better chance. And this way you'll be in an environment with people looking for the same thing, instead of the mismatch in the kinky meetups.
(All this said, my partner and I don't even do the swinger parties - we much prefer meeting people one-on-one online, and we've met PLENTY of people into the same thing you're looking for. Feel free to MeMail me if you want any advice on that.)
posted by Neely O'Hara at 3:38 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had to stop reading some of the other comments after I noticed that you're getting a lot of thinly veiled resentment in response. There are a lot of special snowflakes in here who came at you with hate instead of even trying to answer your question. Responses like, "[i]f you're really mostly interested in finding women to fuck who don't want a commitment, well, that's kind of creepy, wouldn't you say?" are nothing but value judgments and you should pay them no mind. Because, no, that is not a creepy goal. It's very normal, and you've asked about it very frankly.
Hi! I'm a professional (gay) male who spent most of his 20s with an engaging, rewarding side career in sex work.
First thing's first: you are indeed at something of a disadvantage by being a straight man over a certain age. This isn't a disqualifier by any means, just be aware that the questions you are asking are asked by a lot of people, largely other straight males, especially over 40.
Second: Some people are involved in kink for very different reasons. Be careful not to offend, since not everyone has a casual or even voluntary-seeming interest.
You'd do good to take advantage of all the internet has to offer. Craigslist is very honestly not a bad place to explore. If you want more uninhibited sexual contact in a context that includes making partners that you fuck routinely, or at least more than once in some arrangable way, you can always start with an option like signing up with FetLife. In fact, that's probably where you'll have the most success. Go there and be open and honest abut your interests and tendencies and see what kind of a response you get.
Your improv analogy is, to my ears, pretty damned apt. I explored most of my sexual thrill-seeking through this sort of try-it-and-see lens, as I think most people do when they don't have the benefit of a chorus of people who like to think that everyone is hardwired very specifically. This is where Craigslist can come in handy--put in writing exactly what you want and see what happens. You'll likely need to do this repeatedly, and the returns will be meager. But persistence will help you find a like mind or two, and you can experiment with them. If things go well, you can get to know other people with similar interests to serve as chaperones into a social milieu that better fits the kind of people you want to socialize with.
Don't write off going to predominantly gay kink events. Women go to these events, too, and if you're comfortable around kink of all orientations--especially if you can actually dig it as something more than a spectacle--you will meet many, many more people than if you only approach this through the straight guy venues. There are a lot of these--Mid-Atlantic Leather is coming up very soon in DC, there's also IML in Chicago, and San Francisco has a bunch: Up Your Alley, Folsom, etc. These events all have satellite social parties, meet-n-greets, backroom events, you name it. Get out there and meet your fellow men and their friends. They will tie you in to everything else going on in your area, and people are almost always very friendly to curious and adventurous newbies.
Lastly, a reminder: if you want this to happen, you're going to have to invest in it more than 20 minutes a day at the computer. Get your ass out there, buster. Tend your profiles, go to events in your area, talk to anyone you can without shame because the failure rate is high if you want to approach this in a good, not-a-dick way and those who lack shame about striking out are much more likely to find what they want in time. My bridge into exploring the world of kink was meeting a guy whose mantra was, "Never turn down a free meal." That grosses some people out, and sounds like impropriety to others, but I adopted it when it suited me and it helped me fulfill my sexual-social dreams in a way that I never thought would be possible.
Break a leg, and have fun doing it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:25 PM on January 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
Hi! I'm a professional (gay) male who spent most of his 20s with an engaging, rewarding side career in sex work.
First thing's first: you are indeed at something of a disadvantage by being a straight man over a certain age. This isn't a disqualifier by any means, just be aware that the questions you are asking are asked by a lot of people, largely other straight males, especially over 40.
Second: Some people are involved in kink for very different reasons. Be careful not to offend, since not everyone has a casual or even voluntary-seeming interest.
You'd do good to take advantage of all the internet has to offer. Craigslist is very honestly not a bad place to explore. If you want more uninhibited sexual contact in a context that includes making partners that you fuck routinely, or at least more than once in some arrangable way, you can always start with an option like signing up with FetLife. In fact, that's probably where you'll have the most success. Go there and be open and honest abut your interests and tendencies and see what kind of a response you get.
Your improv analogy is, to my ears, pretty damned apt. I explored most of my sexual thrill-seeking through this sort of try-it-and-see lens, as I think most people do when they don't have the benefit of a chorus of people who like to think that everyone is hardwired very specifically. This is where Craigslist can come in handy--put in writing exactly what you want and see what happens. You'll likely need to do this repeatedly, and the returns will be meager. But persistence will help you find a like mind or two, and you can experiment with them. If things go well, you can get to know other people with similar interests to serve as chaperones into a social milieu that better fits the kind of people you want to socialize with.
Don't write off going to predominantly gay kink events. Women go to these events, too, and if you're comfortable around kink of all orientations--especially if you can actually dig it as something more than a spectacle--you will meet many, many more people than if you only approach this through the straight guy venues. There are a lot of these--Mid-Atlantic Leather is coming up very soon in DC, there's also IML in Chicago, and San Francisco has a bunch: Up Your Alley, Folsom, etc. These events all have satellite social parties, meet-n-greets, backroom events, you name it. Get out there and meet your fellow men and their friends. They will tie you in to everything else going on in your area, and people are almost always very friendly to curious and adventurous newbies.
Lastly, a reminder: if you want this to happen, you're going to have to invest in it more than 20 minutes a day at the computer. Get your ass out there, buster. Tend your profiles, go to events in your area, talk to anyone you can without shame because the failure rate is high if you want to approach this in a good, not-a-dick way and those who lack shame about striking out are much more likely to find what they want in time. My bridge into exploring the world of kink was meeting a guy whose mantra was, "Never turn down a free meal." That grosses some people out, and sounds like impropriety to others, but I adopted it when it suited me and it helped me fulfill my sexual-social dreams in a way that I never thought would be possible.
Break a leg, and have fun doing it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:25 PM on January 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't think it's kink shaming to point out that kink is not the same thing as NSA sex. The presumption that kinky women exist as a way to help vanilla men easily get laid is unfortunately common and incredibly wearying.
Kinky people have specific things they are seeking out - things you don't sound interested in providing. This doesn't sound like a good match in either direction, and I encourage you to look outside the BDSM community to get your needs met in a healthy, respectful way that works for everyone involved.
posted by Space Kitty at 6:35 PM on January 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
Kinky people have specific things they are seeking out - things you don't sound interested in providing. This doesn't sound like a good match in either direction, and I encourage you to look outside the BDSM community to get your needs met in a healthy, respectful way that works for everyone involved.
posted by Space Kitty at 6:35 PM on January 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
I have a friend who informs me about this sort of thing. She has attempted to talk me into joining Fetlife and going to munches (one time she "surprise!" dragged me to the end of one, grr) despite it being...uh, for me it would be false advertising. I honestly feel like if you aren't into dominance and submission (or pain, or whatever the main kinks are) and are just looking for easy laying, you might want to look for professionals, swingers, and/or poly folk rather than kinksters. I think if you're looking for "multiple lovers" rather than BDSM, etc., that is far more up your alley. Nobody wants to be unpleasantly surprised by your not being into what they want you to be into.
As for 40's male creepsters: unfortunately, straight men in their 40's looking for "uninhibited women" are.... a dime a dozen. I really hope you're respectful and not impinging on anyone's boundaries and don't turn out to be one. But....I have to say, the #1 red flag for 40's straight male creeps is if you are specifically looking to fuck women ages 18-23. If you won't go near a female over 30/within 10 years of your age range, that's.... usually a bad sign for any young woman dating you. Said friend above told me there's now some kinky group around here that's specifically forbidding older folks from going to it to avoid the creepsters, and older men are still trying to find some loophole or just show up unwanted anyway. Don't do that.
In short: I think you're looking to fish in the wrong pond, find a sexy-yet-not-specifically-kinky and open crowd.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:00 PM on January 9, 2015
As for 40's male creepsters: unfortunately, straight men in their 40's looking for "uninhibited women" are.... a dime a dozen. I really hope you're respectful and not impinging on anyone's boundaries and don't turn out to be one. But....I have to say, the #1 red flag for 40's straight male creeps is if you are specifically looking to fuck women ages 18-23. If you won't go near a female over 30/within 10 years of your age range, that's.... usually a bad sign for any young woman dating you. Said friend above told me there's now some kinky group around here that's specifically forbidding older folks from going to it to avoid the creepsters, and older men are still trying to find some loophole or just show up unwanted anyway. Don't do that.
In short: I think you're looking to fish in the wrong pond, find a sexy-yet-not-specifically-kinky and open crowd.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:00 PM on January 9, 2015
Yeah, sounds like kink is probably not what you are looking for. Unless, of course, you are subconsciously using this as a cover story to help convince yourself to explore these "fetishistic interests" you mention so briefly. In which case, go for it. You will probably find more people willing and able to help you learn there than in other places.
But if that's genuinely not Your Thing, and if you're not really interested in learning anything about it, I would suggest OKCupid. I know you said you didn't want this addressed, but I want to put in the fact that I used it for exactly what you are looking for last year, when that was what I needed. I am female, so I had a huge advantage in looking for FWB NSA non-monogamous dalliances. Because yeah, there are a lot more men in their 40's than women in their 30's (me) looking for that. But it can be done, and might be more honest.
But the question of your "interests" is still in play if you choose to go that route. I'm into light bondage, and none of the gentlemen I met on OKC were. If there is a deeper current to your interest in the kink community, bear that in mind.
I have poly friends and kinky friends, some of whom are involved with the corresponding communities and some of whom are not. It is true that my particular group tends to be pretty openminded as regards sex, and more interested in relationships that depart from standard heterosexual monogamy. But that's my people, and most of them find their fun in less... formal?... settings.
So, minus the caveats mentioned above, probably not.
Also, for what it's worth, I don't think you come across as contemptuous toward your hypothetical FWB partners, though stereotyping kinky people as likely candidates is a bit problematic. But maybe that's colored by the fact that I was doing exactly that thing a year ago, and I never felt remotely disrespected by it.
posted by Because at 3:50 AM on January 10, 2015
But if that's genuinely not Your Thing, and if you're not really interested in learning anything about it, I would suggest OKCupid. I know you said you didn't want this addressed, but I want to put in the fact that I used it for exactly what you are looking for last year, when that was what I needed. I am female, so I had a huge advantage in looking for FWB NSA non-monogamous dalliances. Because yeah, there are a lot more men in their 40's than women in their 30's (me) looking for that. But it can be done, and might be more honest.
But the question of your "interests" is still in play if you choose to go that route. I'm into light bondage, and none of the gentlemen I met on OKC were. If there is a deeper current to your interest in the kink community, bear that in mind.
I have poly friends and kinky friends, some of whom are involved with the corresponding communities and some of whom are not. It is true that my particular group tends to be pretty openminded as regards sex, and more interested in relationships that depart from standard heterosexual monogamy. But that's my people, and most of them find their fun in less... formal?... settings.
So, minus the caveats mentioned above, probably not.
Also, for what it's worth, I don't think you come across as contemptuous toward your hypothetical FWB partners, though stereotyping kinky people as likely candidates is a bit problematic. But maybe that's colored by the fact that I was doing exactly that thing a year ago, and I never felt remotely disrespected by it.
posted by Because at 3:50 AM on January 10, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by empath at 12:35 PM on January 9, 2015 [9 favorites]