Am I fooling myself?
December 16, 2014 7:31 AM   Subscribe

I'm a gay man, and I'm letting myself live / linger in an amorous state with a guy whom, for all I know, is straight. What am I doing?

Almost a year ago, I met a guy, befriended him, developed a close friendship with him, and fell in love madly with him. Since I couldn't tell if he felt the same and the uncertainty was excruciatingly painful, I finally told him we should stop seeing each other because I was gay and I loved him (in the process coming out to him). He took it very badly and told me never to contact him again. I now know that it was my putting an end to the friendship that really angered him.

I tried dating other men but quickly gave up since I was emotionally unavailable and I thought it wasn't fair to them. Then a few weeks later, I made steps towards being friends again with my crush, and now we're back to being super good friends. I'm still in love with him and he knows that. He clearly likes the attention and seems to "need" me as much as I need him. And while I understand we will never become an item, it's a pleasant(-ish) situation to have an emotional boyfriend and I kind of enjoy that. We share, talk, confide, drink and socialize as a couple but we're not an item in that sense. Also, thanks to business worries that are foremost in my mind and happy events in my family during the holy days, the crush is pretty low level at this point and totally manageable. I know it will subside in a few months, if not weeks.

However, I wonder whether I'm not fooling myself. Not only is this going nowhere but having an emotional relationship is preventing me from developing a 'real-lationship' with someone else. So my question is: what would you do if you were in my shoes?
posted by Kwadeng to Human Relations (21 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
I've been in your shoes and I would start dating as many people as possible. You may initially compare your dates to your crush, but you'll click with someone eventually and your crush will fade.
posted by desjardins at 7:34 AM on December 16, 2014 [14 favorites]


Stop seeing this guy. I've been there, and it's the worst relationship you can imagine. You'll use up all your energy mooning over him, while he'll use you to boost his ego and then eventually he'll find a romantic partner while you're shoved off to the sidelines. It's as predictable as it is sad.

Don't worry about being "emotionally unavailable" with your dates. Try dating your dates, rather than trying to set up a situation where you'll wind up with 3.5 kids and a timeshare in Provincetown. Dating can be fun, even if it's just an activity and some fooling around. In fact, it's pretty much more fun if it's just an activity and some fooling around. Eventually, you'll click with one of your dates, and you'll wonder why you fell for someone who couldn't (by nature) return your affections.
posted by xingcat at 7:46 AM on December 16, 2014 [18 favorites]


Dude, why are you torturing yourself? Life's too short for that crap.
posted by starbreaker at 7:48 AM on December 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


This guy totally digs that you're in love with him and he's encouraging you. Let that swirl around in your brain. Would YOU do that if the situation were reversed?

A person who would do this is a big fat asshole. He's hanging out with you not out of friendship, but from some sick ego boost.

He got angry when you cut it off because he likes the adulation and if you get healthy and get into a viable relationship who will moon after him and think him perfect.

So start dating other guys, whether or not you're emotionally available. When you meet a person who is into you both mentally and sexually, when you can be in a relationship that's reciprocal and healthy, suddenly, your crush will vanish and you'll be left with the icky feeling that the rest of us have about him.

He's not a great guy, he's not wonderful and you may think you love him, but when you experience REAL love, you'll know the feeling to be something else.

I reiterate, this man is using you. Why don't you feel gross about it?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:48 AM on December 16, 2014 [23 favorites]


Dude, is this the same guy from this question in August? Because the mefi consensus at that point was to cut the person out of your life ASAP.

If it's not the same guy, think long and hard about why you keep getting yourself into this dynamic with unavailable men.
posted by ActionPopulated at 7:57 AM on December 16, 2014 [16 favorites]


You categorize this relationship with "James" by you socialize as a defacto gay couple, even though your relationship is not official and he's straight and married?

I know you are hoping to "win" him from his wife. That's not going to happen. Do you want to know why?

I know why.

- His end game is the attention and adoration you are giving him right now BECAUSE and AS LONG AS your emotions for him keep you from others. His end game is successful manipulation. That's his "win."

- Your end game is for him to fall in live with you, come out as gay, and leave his wife and family for you. That's your "win"
...........

Your "win" and his "win" are NOT compatible.

Your "win and his "win" only look compatible during this part of the "game."

Your profile says you are almost 50. How much more time are you going to waste on this?

Me from your last AskMe on this:

"Get yourself away from that destructive narcissist, James. He's going to steal years of your life and all of your happiness if you don't start to see through him.

Please, start to see through him.

He's obvious. His moves are textbook for the genre. You're smarter than this. Man, c'mon!!"

That was August. We're pretty much in 2015 now.
posted by jbenben at 8:06 AM on December 16, 2014 [17 favorites]


Meh, you seem pretty mature about the whole adolescent silliness of the thing. Maybe you're a fool, but I don't think you're fooling yourself. Of course this man is using you--for friendship, companionship, affection.

Sometimes we decide to stand too close to the fire because it is warm and nice, and we know we are likely to get burned, but we'll live and move on.

What would I do? Probably the same as you. Take the advice above and date around.
posted by General Tonic at 8:10 AM on December 16, 2014 [10 favorites]


This happens to gay guys a lot when they first come out and start dating for the first time. After an internal struggle about our own identity those first few steps into open queer life can be frightening. Despite coming out there is still some doubt as to whether we made the right choice to do so, whether we can commit to bring this person, whether or not we can find happiness. And so, what many gay guys do is fall in love with a straight guy. We know they will never want to date us and so they are merely a screen to project what we think it will be like to be in a relationship and to feel love.

And again, this is incredibly common and most guys get over it quickly. I think the advice to go date actual gay guys is the answer. The potential for heartbreak is there, sure, but the possibility of meeting great people from whom you learn a lot about yourself and how you love is so much more worthwhile than crushing on a straight dude.
posted by munchingzombie at 8:33 AM on December 16, 2014


My advice from your last question still stands, minus the parts about Fred since he's clearly no longer in the picture. Consensus then and consensus now appear to be the same: get this guy out of your life. But maybe specifics would be more helpful.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably do a slow fade. This is especially easy to do over holidays or if there is something time-consuming at work, and it sounds like you have both of these. So don't initiate contact with him. If/when he contacts you, take a while to get back to him. Apologise for taking a while, give the very busy due to X excuse. Be vague about actual plans. Say you'll confirm details with him later and then don't.

The advantage of this method is that when you are genuinely busy with other things, it lets you focus on that without making a big deal of not seeing him. If you tried to have a big emotional heart to heart about how it can't work, blah blah blah, you'd be creating a drama that you would probably also buy into, making it harder on yourself and distracting you from the other things that are going on in your life. They deserve more attention than he does anyway.

Then, when holidays are over and you've resolved some of the business stuff, start dating other people. Shouldn't be too much longer before you've forgotten this egotistical arsehole.
posted by Athanassiel at 9:17 AM on December 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


In your shoes, I would re-read the answers to your previous questions.
posted by obliterati at 9:44 AM on December 16, 2014 [6 favorites]


I had this happen to me, but I was sitting in your friend's seat instead of yours.

I was best friends with this girl for two years. I noticed sometimes that she would call me for no reason and try to keep me on the phone as long as possible and that she would send me flowers on Valentines day, but it never crossed my mind that she was gay... and I don't think she even knew she was gay at the time. She didn't officially come out until 2 years after we met and I was one of the first people she told. Then she told me her feelings for me (she knew full well I was straight though and she had already started dating her first official girlfriend at this point).

My response (after the initial shock) was ok, well, so what? This doesn't have to affect our friendship. We hung out or spoke almost every day. And yes, my ego was a little stroked by this development. I mean someone was in LOVE with ME??? How awesome was that! But I never toyed with her heart about it or anything. Well, as her relationship with this other woman started to get more serious she started to come up with more and more excuses as to why we couldn't hang out anymore. It got to the point where getting her to hang out with me like the old times felt like pulling teeth. I felt completely shoved aside and like she didn't ever really value our friendship after all. That the whole time I was just this 'what-if' and now that she had that void filled in her life suddenly I was nothing. I realized that I was making all the effort to keep the friendship alive and so eventually I went no contact on her.

I think the real question here is: Once you find someone that fulfills this need in your life, do you really think you'll still want him around? This may be a difficult question to answer, but if you were willing to break the friendship off due to wanting him and not being able to have him then maybe it is best not to have him in your life. It's not based on anything solid or real. And what about you? Do you think that when he finds a relationship that you'll just be dumped on the wayside now that some girl is giving him his regular ego puff? As it stands it appears to be just a fake friendship where one person is hanging around in empty hope and your friend (may) be just wanting their ego stroked. I nth that you should start dating a lot more. If when you do, your friend starts touching you more or being really flirty, but not actually wanting to follow through on anything- that would be a red flag to me that he's toying with you; afraid of losing your attention to another crush, but does NOT like you in that way. If he starts doing things like that severe the friendship because you're nothing more than an ego puff to him.
posted by rancher at 10:02 AM on December 16, 2014 [5 favorites]


As someone else who has been in your shoes, yes, I think you're fooling yourself. In my case, it took getting involved with someone who actually was available and into me to finally realize just how badly I was robbing myself. I honestly can't tell you how amazing it is to wholeheartedly love someone without feeling guilty for doing so, or feeling like you have to hold some of yourself back.

The difference between an emotional surrogate and a true heart/soul/whatevermate is vast. The me of my 'almost-girlfriends' years probably wouldn't have understood that because there was deep emotional intimacy between my straight friend and me, just as it sounds like you have with your friend. Hell, I spent almost a month living in my friend's home once and probably would have thought we had everything but the sex, but looking back ... wow, that just isn't true. What you have isn't a balanced relationship. You KNOW you two will never be an item. You won't ever wake up on a Saturday morning as he snuggles close. You won't be able to rest your hand on his leg, knowing how magical that contact feels to you both. You won't adopt a dog/cat/kid together. If you enjoy the way he smells, the way his eyes look when he smiles, that goofy little noise he makes when he's zoning out ... either you have to keep those things to yourself, or tell him knowing that it's not reciprocated. You and he won't ever be each other's primary family.

I say this as someone who is a huge fan of having close, important friendships: there is a difference. Right now what you have is an outlet for the love you want to give another human being; what you deserve is someone who can both accept that love AND love you back as a partner. I agree with everyone saying you need to cut ties with this person for the foreseeable future, at least until you've given yourself the chance to develop a truly reciprocal relationship with someone who is available and into you. I wish you all the best.
posted by DingoMutt at 10:42 AM on December 16, 2014 [4 favorites]


I know it will subside in a few months, if not weeks.

This crush that you have had for a YEAR that has prevented you from forming an attachment to available men is going to just magically subside in a few weeks?

Please treat yourself more kindly and remove this man from your life. It isn't a healthy dynamic for you.
posted by Julnyes at 10:57 AM on December 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


Okay, I know this is the metafilter question par excellence, but are you in therapy? Because unless you are really deep-down okay with this pattern for the rest of your life, ie you would really, truly prefer to be basically single but with some emotional interaction (and some people do prefer this! all the feelings and idealization and none of the trauma!) you need to unpack whatever is making you do it.

People love in funny ways - but if you're really cut out for a life of romantic longing that you know will never go anywhere, you need to get that out in the open, onto the surface of your psyche, so that you aren't conflicted.

Ask yourself - do you really truly want a relationship? Picture all the stuff - the time it takes, having fights, being emotionally intimate even about things you would rather not be, the times when sex is stressful, the financial and logistical complications, etc. Thinking of all those things, do you still want to seek out a relationship? If you really, truly want a relationship, go to therapy.

I say this, by the way, as one who knows - I have a lot of trouble with intimacy and relationships, and I have spent years at a stretch being "in love" with people who would never love me back. And actually, there have been long stretches of my life when that was okay because I knew what was going on with myself - I wanted to feel a crush, look forward to seeing someone, etc, but I was not able to do all the relationship things and did not in fact want a relationship. When I knew what was going on, I was able to manage it - recognizing that I didn't actually want to date my crush, so I didn't care if they dated someone else, etc.

If I were you and were going to therapy, etc, I would do some thinking about my childhood and young adulthood. I somehow get the feeling from these questions that for whatever reason, it's difficult for you to accept ordinary attention and affection, and more comfortable to feel like you have to have secrets, do a little dance to try to be loved, exist in a constant state of wishing-to-be-loved, etc. Like naybe it feels better to be in a bad situation that recapitulates whatever you're recapitulating (internalized homophobia, childhood stuff, etc) than to be in a good but unfamiliar situation? Or maybe it's a kind of test - if you can "win" this guy, that will prove something about you? (For me, I always needed to be in a situation where I would fail - if I "won" the person, that would "prove" that I was smart enough to attract someone intellectual, but I always picked people I could never "win" because this reassured me that I really was awful, worthless, etc, which was comfortingly familiar.)

Being almost fifty and in this situation is no kind of thing, says the forty-year-old who had to get their shit together.
posted by Frowner at 11:14 AM on December 16, 2014 [7 favorites]


Sometimes answers to these sorts of questions do themselves a disservice by making the crush out to be an evil narcissist. Because you like him, you might want to protect him from the mean ol' mefites. I don't think your friend is a bad guy, but I Do think he's being unfair to you.

What do you want? Do you want to avoid a real-lationship? Because you've known for quite some time that this friendship is preventing you from investing in a partnership where your partner loves you back equally.

You don't have to dump him now if that's too hard. Just back off a little and date around more. The real and unselfish love of a good partner will become available. If that sounds scary or unpleasant or somehow worse than pining for this guy, consider therapy to explore what, exactly, you Do want from your friends and partners.
posted by ldthomps at 12:03 PM on December 16, 2014 [1 favorite]


Here's an interesting experiment.

Go out on a few dates and talk about them with your "friend." Talk about how nice they are, how much fun you had, how you're looking forward to being in a loving relationship with someone.

If he's really a nice person, he'll encourage you, be happy for you and be a total mench. If he's jealous or tries to undermine your happiness, or worse, starts flirting with you....well, you'll know we're all right.

Also, since you keep chasing this rainbow, get some therapy so that you can understand why you're latching on so hard to someone who is not only a jerk, but someone who will NEVER love you the way you love him.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:04 PM on December 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


what would you do if you were in my shoes?

Like, other than NOT being the "emotional boyfriend" of the guy with a wife and kids whom you've conveniently left out of this question?? Do you let yourself think you are taking nothing from them? Is she even a real person to you?

Gay is no excuse. This is selfishness. Cut it off.
posted by heatherann at 5:09 PM on December 16, 2014 [2 favorites]


You already asked a question about this guy in August and he sounded like a total sociopath. Everyone told you to get the hell away from him, including me. I stand by that advice. It sounds like you have some self-esteem issues if you are willing to accept this and ignore his unacceptable past behavior. Maybe therapy could help you learn to love and accept yourself enough to realize you deserve better?

I notice that in your previous question you said you were bisexual and now you say you are gay. It sounds like this is very much new territory for you and you're still figuring it out. It sounds like maybe this is the first time you've been in love. Well, love shouldn't work like this and no good can come of it. End the friendship, it's super unhealthy.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:44 PM on December 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


Hey, I think this the same guy that you wrote about previously and said

I finally told him yesterday evening that we would no longer see each other because I was in love with him and we both needed space. He said nothing, wished me well and left. Out of guilt / regret / God knows what went into my mind, I texted him this morning to say hello. He called me right back to tell me to stay away from him and that I should never contact him again, lest he becomes violent. I just said I was sorry and he hung up on me.

about, and now you're saying

I now know that it was my putting an end to the friendship that really angered him.

And I have to say: what's making him mad is not that you ended the friendship. What's making him mad is that you asserted yourself and made it known that you had emotional needs that aren't just about satisfying his need to control you.

Like a number of people including me have said in both your previous asks about this guy, RUN AWAY. He does not love you, he loves controlling you. He does not love your friendship, he does not reciprocate your feelings, and he does not want to. He likes your attention. He was upset when you came out to him. He wasn't okay with you revealing your feelings, and you hadn't previously felt comfortable coming out to him despite your alleged "closeness". Instead of apologizing for monopolizing your emotional time or saying he felt flattered or any of the things an actual friend would do, he threatened to hurt you.

Please believe him and get away before he sucks up more of your life.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:13 PM on December 16, 2014 [7 favorites]


I dunno, sometimes people stay in relationships that will never go anywhere because it saves them from doing the hard work/facing possible rejection/accepting reality that leaving the truncated relationship and finding a fulfilling relationship would entail. I think you know this, and you just have to convince yourself that you really do deserve something much, much better.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:31 PM on December 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


Also, looking at your question history, it's clear you never tried to even get over this guy who very much seems to be using you. If you keep talking to him and having your fake relationship with him, how do you expect to move on? In your first question, he threatened to be violent toward you if you contacted him again, and everyone advised you to move on, and yet two weeks later you submitted a question where you said you had regained contact with him. Now, months later, you lament that this unhealthy dynamic is getting in the way of you establishing real relationships with men. Well, no shit, dude.

It would be like if you just forever ran on a treadmill and never got off, but then wondered why you couldn't catch your breath. You need to stop seeing this manipulative, abusive jerk to get over him. Seeing him is not conducive to getting over him -- it has the opposite effect. Based on your question history, you sound rather delusional if you have convinced yourself your "crush" will subside in a matter of weeks, especially since you've said you are "madly in love with him." Your feelings might subside in a few weeks if you cut him out of your life. If you continue to see him and talk to him, then I estimate there is a zero percent chance of you getting over him and moving on. Pick your odds.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:43 PM on December 16, 2014 [3 favorites]


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