How will I know?
December 14, 2014 6:05 AM Subscribe
If it were someone else describing their marriage I would tell them to get a divorce. My brain screams this at me every time some new bullshit happens, almost every day. But the thought of our actual real-life relationship breaking up and going away, and him being out there in the world alone, makes me feel sick and sad. Does that mean we shouldn't get a divorce? What does it mean?
I don't think our issues can be therapied away. I was in therapy for years and couldn't get him to go, for one thing. I think this is because part of his brain is in a different dimension with all different rules of logic and physics. Part of his brain lives here in this world with me and I love that part. But I don't like trying to build a life with someone who's not 100% on planet Earth. Don't read into this or ask me to explain what this means. Just try to empathize. I can't describe it any differently. If it was substance abuse or he was abusing me I would come out and say it was substance abuse and would have left him yesterday with no regrets. The conclusion I've come to after many years of observation is that part of him is in another dimension and I fundementally can't get with that. But I don't have any obvious get out of jail free card because my whimsical magical realism description of a complicated situation is not a generally recognized thing. We don't communicate or make each other happy but it's for no lack of trying on my part. As for his part I just don't know what the fuck he's thinking most of the time. I could list out every little argument we've ever had but I'm not looking for a verdict about whether we should or shouldn't based on what we argue about. AskMe has already delivered that to me in previous questions.
Main question: How will I know if or when it's time?
After today's typical incident in which I complained that he went to the store without offering to take me to Target for the 100th time and connected it to him seeming not to know me that well and he's been sulking in his room ever since. This is by far not the worst thing that's ever happened but. I looked up the procedure for divorcing in this state. It made me feel sick and sad. I don't want to go through it. I don't want to think about it. Is this a normal symptom of a generally sad and difficult thing? Or is it something that if I were really ready, it wouldn't bother me?
Particulars: We do not qualify for a summary dissolution because we have a one year lease and I think too much debt. We have not lived in this state long enough to get divorced right away so there would have to be a separation first unless we waited until sometime next year. We have no kids. We own a car outright but no house. Some debt, some cash, but there would be no disagreement about who gets what. I'm also worried because he's permanently disabled. He gets social security disability insurance every month and would probably qualify for benefits if I wasn't supporting him but that's a difficult life and I hate the thought of him out there on his own. I also hate how he would lose face with his friends and family. The thought of him suffering and feeling bad makes me feel bad and I don't want to feel bad.
I don't think our issues can be therapied away. I was in therapy for years and couldn't get him to go, for one thing. I think this is because part of his brain is in a different dimension with all different rules of logic and physics. Part of his brain lives here in this world with me and I love that part. But I don't like trying to build a life with someone who's not 100% on planet Earth. Don't read into this or ask me to explain what this means. Just try to empathize. I can't describe it any differently. If it was substance abuse or he was abusing me I would come out and say it was substance abuse and would have left him yesterday with no regrets. The conclusion I've come to after many years of observation is that part of him is in another dimension and I fundementally can't get with that. But I don't have any obvious get out of jail free card because my whimsical magical realism description of a complicated situation is not a generally recognized thing. We don't communicate or make each other happy but it's for no lack of trying on my part. As for his part I just don't know what the fuck he's thinking most of the time. I could list out every little argument we've ever had but I'm not looking for a verdict about whether we should or shouldn't based on what we argue about. AskMe has already delivered that to me in previous questions.
Main question: How will I know if or when it's time?
After today's typical incident in which I complained that he went to the store without offering to take me to Target for the 100th time and connected it to him seeming not to know me that well and he's been sulking in his room ever since. This is by far not the worst thing that's ever happened but. I looked up the procedure for divorcing in this state. It made me feel sick and sad. I don't want to go through it. I don't want to think about it. Is this a normal symptom of a generally sad and difficult thing? Or is it something that if I were really ready, it wouldn't bother me?
Particulars: We do not qualify for a summary dissolution because we have a one year lease and I think too much debt. We have not lived in this state long enough to get divorced right away so there would have to be a separation first unless we waited until sometime next year. We have no kids. We own a car outright but no house. Some debt, some cash, but there would be no disagreement about who gets what. I'm also worried because he's permanently disabled. He gets social security disability insurance every month and would probably qualify for benefits if I wasn't supporting him but that's a difficult life and I hate the thought of him out there on his own. I also hate how he would lose face with his friends and family. The thought of him suffering and feeling bad makes me feel bad and I don't want to feel bad.
I've been through divorce, and I initiated it. Although I have a sample size of 1, I believe this to be true of many marriages:
If you are waiting for a blinking neon sign that NOW IS THE TIME/THIS IS HOW YOU KNOW, you will wait a very long time indeed. The decision to end your marriage is just as much you making that decision in an intentional way as the decision to get married in the first place.
You have to weigh the factors for yourself and actively make a decision to stay or go. It sounds like you're already in the midst of making a decision. Keep doing that.
Being sick and sad at the thought of moving forward with a divorce is common, even if you want it and initiate it. Good luck.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:21 AM on December 14, 2014 [12 favorites]
If you are waiting for a blinking neon sign that NOW IS THE TIME/THIS IS HOW YOU KNOW, you will wait a very long time indeed. The decision to end your marriage is just as much you making that decision in an intentional way as the decision to get married in the first place.
You have to weigh the factors for yourself and actively make a decision to stay or go. It sounds like you're already in the midst of making a decision. Keep doing that.
Being sick and sad at the thought of moving forward with a divorce is common, even if you want it and initiate it. Good luck.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:21 AM on December 14, 2014 [12 favorites]
I am wondering, have you discussed your feelings about your husband in therapy? Not offering to take you to Target seems like typical inconsiderate dude behavior. It sucks, but I think a lot of men struggle with this type of thing. However, if you feel he doesn't support you emotionally or in any other way, it makes sense to divorce. I wouldn't consider the timeline and particulars just yet, just make up your mind on leaving this man or not. Maybe if you tell him you are considering divorce, but would try marriage counseling, he'd change his mind. Good luck.
posted by Kalmya at 6:22 AM on December 14, 2014
posted by Kalmya at 6:22 AM on December 14, 2014
If you're waiting for some sign that would "allow" you to end a relationship, then you're already beyond the point of no return.
posted by deathpanels at 6:26 AM on December 14, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by deathpanels at 6:26 AM on December 14, 2014 [19 favorites]
How will I know if or when it's time?
I've never been divorced but I have broken up with boyfriends. Much different and less complicated than a divorce but for me I knew it was time when I couldn't wait to get out. My primary focus was to break up and there was no hemming and hawing. There was nothing he could do or say to make me stay.
Marriage advice: Back off trying to change him. Back off period. Respond rather than react. Look inward rather at your partner. Need less. Look for things that you can do for him. Offer to take him to Target. Give love, be loved. Want love? Be lovable.
posted by Fairchild at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
I've never been divorced but I have broken up with boyfriends. Much different and less complicated than a divorce but for me I knew it was time when I couldn't wait to get out. My primary focus was to break up and there was no hemming and hawing. There was nothing he could do or say to make me stay.
Marriage advice: Back off trying to change him. Back off period. Respond rather than react. Look inward rather at your partner. Need less. Look for things that you can do for him. Offer to take him to Target. Give love, be loved. Want love? Be lovable.
posted by Fairchild at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
You sound miserable. If you're unhappy, what makes you think that he's happy. Sure, his life may not be great without you, but at some point, you can't let that be a factor in your decision-making.
Here's what I'd do, if I were you. I would sit down with him and say:
"I'm very unhappy in our marriage. I have tried everything I can think of to turn it around. I've asked you repeatedly to go to couples therapy with me to try to change things, and you refuse. I'm asking you one more time, not because I think we can save our marriage, but because we can't. I have a lot of conflicting feelings and unresolved concerns and I can't communicate effectively with you. I think a therapist can help us amicably dissolve our marriage and help us to reconcile our different communication styles so that we can both exit knowing that the other is taken care of."
And that's it. You shared and important relationship with your husband for years and years, of course you're sad and upset at the thought of divorce. That doesn't mean it's not the right answer for you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [17 favorites]
Here's what I'd do, if I were you. I would sit down with him and say:
"I'm very unhappy in our marriage. I have tried everything I can think of to turn it around. I've asked you repeatedly to go to couples therapy with me to try to change things, and you refuse. I'm asking you one more time, not because I think we can save our marriage, but because we can't. I have a lot of conflicting feelings and unresolved concerns and I can't communicate effectively with you. I think a therapist can help us amicably dissolve our marriage and help us to reconcile our different communication styles so that we can both exit knowing that the other is taken care of."
And that's it. You shared and important relationship with your husband for years and years, of course you're sad and upset at the thought of divorce. That doesn't mean it's not the right answer for you.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [17 favorites]
Men are not "wired" any differently from women in ways that are conveniently codified by socialized gender role stereotypes. This is not about forgetting to take you to Target. You feel a fundamental disconnect from him and you feel the disconnect is insurmountable. You also will probably be really unhappy and even more resentful if you stay with him out of guilty concern for his well-being, if he does not change his behavior. Only you can decide how likely it is that he'll change his behavior, if he won't go to therapy, if he's out in space circling "Planet Logic" and can't be "reasoned" down into the work and compromise of any relationship.
posted by automatic cabinet at 6:29 AM on December 14, 2014 [37 favorites]
posted by automatic cabinet at 6:29 AM on December 14, 2014 [37 favorites]
Start with acceptance. Accept that your partner is the way they are. Then stop and consider spending more time with your partner, possibly the rest of your life.
Does that thought make you feel happy? If it makes you feel anything other than that, move on. This doesn't seem to be a passing cloud of bad feeling. It seems to be the weather of your relationship.
Don't stay in a relationship because you don't want them the be upset at the end of it.
posted by Solomon at 6:35 AM on December 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
Does that thought make you feel happy? If it makes you feel anything other than that, move on. This doesn't seem to be a passing cloud of bad feeling. It seems to be the weather of your relationship.
Don't stay in a relationship because you don't want them the be upset at the end of it.
posted by Solomon at 6:35 AM on December 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
You'll know it's time when you realize that the issues are insurmountable and you and your husband cannot be happy together.
I got to that place after 17 years of marriage by having a HOLY SHIT epiphany of how miserable I was, how long I had been deeply unhappy and how no amount of counseling was going to make any of it any better.
So...counseling will help you see where your tipping point lies. You go together. You figure things out. It may not be fixable. But it's going to help you make sense of things. And if you divorce, then you did everything you could to make it work and you're not responsible for how his life proceeds.
posted by kinetic at 6:40 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
I got to that place after 17 years of marriage by having a HOLY SHIT epiphany of how miserable I was, how long I had been deeply unhappy and how no amount of counseling was going to make any of it any better.
So...counseling will help you see where your tipping point lies. You go together. You figure things out. It may not be fixable. But it's going to help you make sense of things. And if you divorce, then you did everything you could to make it work and you're not responsible for how his life proceeds.
posted by kinetic at 6:40 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not wanting to hurt someone is really the worst reason to stay together because in the process you hurt yourself. You're really not responsible for him. He is an adult and will make the decisions he needs to make to continue on.
But you two just don't seem to be connected at all. And I can say with certainty that after you do break it off, you will find yourself again and you will eventually be far happier than you are now.
It was time to leave the moment he decided that he wasn't going to work with you to fix your problems as a couple.
posted by inturnaround at 6:43 AM on December 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
But you two just don't seem to be connected at all. And I can say with certainty that after you do break it off, you will find yourself again and you will eventually be far happier than you are now.
It was time to leave the moment he decided that he wasn't going to work with you to fix your problems as a couple.
posted by inturnaround at 6:43 AM on December 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
When you divorce, you are choosing to amputate part of your life. If you have gangrene in your leg, your choices are to remove it or to die, but it is still your leg. It's part of you now, and if you remove it, you will always have an absence where it was. Our emotional brains are not programmed to happily let go of a piece of us. But at some point, our rational brains have to realize that the consequences of keeping the leg are worse than the pain of losing it, and the struggle to normalize life without it.
I work with divorcing people every day. A divorce may be the worst year of your life. The year after you finish it is typically one of the best.
posted by freshwater at 6:54 AM on December 14, 2014 [24 favorites]
I work with divorcing people every day. A divorce may be the worst year of your life. The year after you finish it is typically one of the best.
posted by freshwater at 6:54 AM on December 14, 2014 [24 favorites]
If you're looking for a burning bush, the only way you'll get one is if you strike the match yourself.
You cannot fight reality; reality always wins. Accept things the way that they are and go from there, one small step at a time.
If you have to ask "Is it time?" then it's already way past time.
I wish you the best.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 7:11 AM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
You cannot fight reality; reality always wins. Accept things the way that they are and go from there, one small step at a time.
If you have to ask "Is it time?" then it's already way past time.
I wish you the best.
posted by John Kennedy Toole Box at 7:11 AM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
If he really knew how you feel, would he want to stay married to you? Not an entirely rhetorical question; some people prefer to stay married almost no matter what. And he may not be capable of really getting how you feel, ever. But this relationship may not be in either of your real best interests, aside from some level of convenience. I don't encourage you to put it that way to him; it would sound condescending and like you are not taking responsibility for your own choice. But it is something to consider in terms of this question of whether you will hurt him by leaving.
posted by BibiRose at 7:27 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by BibiRose at 7:27 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Being sorry he'd 'lose face' with friends & relatives is no reason to stay: lots of people get divorced, this isn't like it was 200-300 years ago, when divorce made one a social outcast! Ditto his financial situation if you were to split: his business, not yours..... you need to worry about you and your situation more than how he'd manage. And also ditto the time you've been in-state: lots of people have split before their leases were up, and the world keeps going anyway.
Why one of you should leave:
*You don't really communicate with each other --- this one is the biggie.
*You've gone to therapy to try to fix things, and he refuses to even consider it --- apparently he feels you are the only one required to do any of the work in this relationship.
*You apparently fight all the time, about big things/little things/things you've fought about a million times before.
*Your partner thinks 'sulking in his room' is reasonable adult behavior?!?
*You (you yourself: this is a situation where it does not matter how he feels) are massively, totally miserably unhappy --- you are not required to stay in a marriage or a home where you are so miserable, just because leaving might inconvenience your partner.
There is no law whatsoever that requires you to stay together; just because you haven't lived in your current state for very long does not mean one of you can't move out. Separated for now/divorced later would be far better than staying in what you yourself call "a sad and difficult situation".
posted by easily confused at 7:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
Why one of you should leave:
*You don't really communicate with each other --- this one is the biggie.
*You've gone to therapy to try to fix things, and he refuses to even consider it --- apparently he feels you are the only one required to do any of the work in this relationship.
*You apparently fight all the time, about big things/little things/things you've fought about a million times before.
*Your partner thinks 'sulking in his room' is reasonable adult behavior?!?
*You (you yourself: this is a situation where it does not matter how he feels) are massively, totally miserably unhappy --- you are not required to stay in a marriage or a home where you are so miserable, just because leaving might inconvenience your partner.
There is no law whatsoever that requires you to stay together; just because you haven't lived in your current state for very long does not mean one of you can't move out. Separated for now/divorced later would be far better than staying in what you yourself call "a sad and difficult situation".
posted by easily confused at 7:28 AM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
Short and simple - You only get one life. It's yours. Is this how you want to spend it?
posted by fourpotatoes at 7:29 AM on December 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by fourpotatoes at 7:29 AM on December 14, 2014 [13 favorites]
Is this a normal symptom of a generally sad and difficult thing?
Yeah. It feels shitty and you're reluctant to do it and feel ill about it and that's normal.
There will never be a sign that it's time, although I guess what a lot of people do is sit around until they've met someone else and then are kind of forced into it, but that's unfair and a waste of everyone's time.
Every day you spend in this miserable marriage is a day you could not be in this miserable marriage. The only reason you gave for staying in the whole description is basically feeling bad for him -- that's not a reason to stay. If you're looking for validation of your point of view and desire to leave, I think you're going to find plenty.
Also, it doesn't matter if he's a good guy or a bad guy, really. He doesn't have to be a bad guy for you to not want to be married to him. You don't have to have a list of his transgressions to be 'right'. You get to just leave because you choose to do the thing that is right for you. It sounds like you're trying to justify ending the marriage to yourself--you don't need to. Being unhappy with someone who won't work with you is good enough.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:57 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Yeah. It feels shitty and you're reluctant to do it and feel ill about it and that's normal.
There will never be a sign that it's time, although I guess what a lot of people do is sit around until they've met someone else and then are kind of forced into it, but that's unfair and a waste of everyone's time.
Every day you spend in this miserable marriage is a day you could not be in this miserable marriage. The only reason you gave for staying in the whole description is basically feeling bad for him -- that's not a reason to stay. If you're looking for validation of your point of view and desire to leave, I think you're going to find plenty.
Also, it doesn't matter if he's a good guy or a bad guy, really. He doesn't have to be a bad guy for you to not want to be married to him. You don't have to have a list of his transgressions to be 'right'. You get to just leave because you choose to do the thing that is right for you. It sounds like you're trying to justify ending the marriage to yourself--you don't need to. Being unhappy with someone who won't work with you is good enough.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:57 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Ultimatums are seen as a bad thing to do to someone else, but I don't believe that's always true, especially if you are truly prepared to follow through. If he won't actually try harder, and in this case that might mean therapy or it might mean something else, then you are going to leave. It's not a threat, it sounds like it's a statement of fact. I think it would be good of you to tell him this truth, if you're at all open to staying if he does, in fact, do better at listening to you.
posted by amtho at 8:00 AM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 8:00 AM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
The thought of him suffering and feeling bad makes me feel bad and I don't want to feel bad.
You feel bad now. You feel bad in this relationship. You have been feeling bad for a while. How much longer do you want to feel bad? If you don't get a divorce and he doesn't change, welcome to the rest of your life. Decide if that is what you want.
posted by rtha at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
You feel bad now. You feel bad in this relationship. You have been feeling bad for a while. How much longer do you want to feel bad? If you don't get a divorce and he doesn't change, welcome to the rest of your life. Decide if that is what you want.
posted by rtha at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
But I don't have any obvious get out of jail free card because my whimsical magical realism description of a complicated situation is not a generally recognized thing.
Even with substance abuse or domestic violence or some of the generally recognized "obvious bad things," there are no Get Out of Jail Free cards for divorce. Divorce is messy and horrible, and people will tell you you're doing the wrong thing even if you're being actively abused, and no one would go through with it except when the idea of continuing the marriage is generally worse than the idea of going through with a divorce. So as rtha says, I think you need to decide if this is how you want the rest of your life to be, because this is how the rest of your life will be if you don't make major changes.
As for not wanting to hurt him, it sounds like you're already hurting him by staying with him out of pity rather than love.
posted by jaguar at 9:16 AM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
Even with substance abuse or domestic violence or some of the generally recognized "obvious bad things," there are no Get Out of Jail Free cards for divorce. Divorce is messy and horrible, and people will tell you you're doing the wrong thing even if you're being actively abused, and no one would go through with it except when the idea of continuing the marriage is generally worse than the idea of going through with a divorce. So as rtha says, I think you need to decide if this is how you want the rest of your life to be, because this is how the rest of your life will be if you don't make major changes.
As for not wanting to hurt him, it sounds like you're already hurting him by staying with him out of pity rather than love.
posted by jaguar at 9:16 AM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you are waiting for a blinking neon sign that NOW IS THE TIME/THIS IS HOW YOU KNOW, you will wait a very long time indeed. The decision to end your marriage is just as much you making that decision in an intentional way as the decision to get married in the first place.
You have to weigh the factors for yourself and actively make a decision to stay or go. It sounds like you're already in the midst of making a decision. Keep doing that.
Being sick and sad at the thought of moving forward with a divorce is common, even if you want it and initiate it. Good luck.
I am currently working on a divorce that my wife doesn't want, and I am having this experience every day, where I'm uncertain and wavering and my feelings and commitment to the process change constantly. But when my friend asked me "Do you see yourself in this relationship in 5 years" that one is easy and never changes: "Absolutely not"
posted by Kwine at 9:19 AM on December 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
You have to weigh the factors for yourself and actively make a decision to stay or go. It sounds like you're already in the midst of making a decision. Keep doing that.
Being sick and sad at the thought of moving forward with a divorce is common, even if you want it and initiate it. Good luck.
I am currently working on a divorce that my wife doesn't want, and I am having this experience every day, where I'm uncertain and wavering and my feelings and commitment to the process change constantly. But when my friend asked me "Do you see yourself in this relationship in 5 years" that one is easy and never changes: "Absolutely not"
posted by Kwine at 9:19 AM on December 14, 2014 [4 favorites]
From what I've seen, feeling sick and sad at the outset of a divorce and throughout it - contemplating it, realizing its inevitability, initiating it, negotiating it -- is totally typical; but once its over, it's astonishing how people who once were so intimately connected can sever that bond completely. When there are children involved it's more complicated, but without them... people get over it quicker than you'd think, and often don't think about their exes anymore at all.
Good luck, whatever you decide. You sound pretty done.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:11 AM on December 14, 2014
Good luck, whatever you decide. You sound pretty done.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:11 AM on December 14, 2014
I spent 12 years with a man I loved , and thought loved me -- and he may well have as best as he was able. Actually I can very well empathize though I don't know the circumstances of your situation. My relationship was so difficult because it was as if he was from a different planet. All the social nuances and cues had to be explained by me time and again, and my needs were rarely anticipated in the most usual circumstances. For example: drop me at the ER at midnight for cardiac monitoring, call in the AM to see if I have been admitted or need to be picked up and taken home? No, he simply went to work, leaving me on my own at the hospital. Never occurred to him to check on me.
After years of this "out there" behavior, and other issues, we split up somewhat amicably. OMG I felt so free. And yes I worried about him but he's doing just fine. And just as importantly, so am I.
I used to call him The Man From Pluto. It is possible he was on the Autism spectrum, high functioning.
You can care about someone and not be meant to live with them. You can have a happier life. And BTW in my scenario, I am the one on SSDI. Not a problem.
The solution was to choose to be happier and not live a bewildering, frustrating life. You don't even have to fix blame, you can just look at your life and say: "This is not working for me" and move on.
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 10:33 AM on December 14, 2014 [14 favorites]
After years of this "out there" behavior, and other issues, we split up somewhat amicably. OMG I felt so free. And yes I worried about him but he's doing just fine. And just as importantly, so am I.
I used to call him The Man From Pluto. It is possible he was on the Autism spectrum, high functioning.
You can care about someone and not be meant to live with them. You can have a happier life. And BTW in my scenario, I am the one on SSDI. Not a problem.
The solution was to choose to be happier and not live a bewildering, frustrating life. You don't even have to fix blame, you can just look at your life and say: "This is not working for me" and move on.
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 10:33 AM on December 14, 2014 [14 favorites]
It's time to divorce when you look up divorce process on the Internet. I wish I'd realized that the first time I Googled how to do a divorce.
posted by mibo at 10:46 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by mibo at 10:46 AM on December 14, 2014 [7 favorites]
Sit down and talk with him about what you people would like your future to be, what it feels like now and what needs to be done to get there together. If you guys cannot come up with a shared vision & path, then maybe it is time to call it quits. Sorry :(
posted by asra at 11:37 AM on December 14, 2014
posted by asra at 11:37 AM on December 14, 2014
You can care about someone and not be meant to live with them.
alwayson_slightlyoff has it. Also: We're implicitly told that relationships take work. But there's work, and there's construction work.
posted by virago at 11:39 AM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
alwayson_slightlyoff has it. Also: We're implicitly told that relationships take work. But there's work, and there's construction work.
posted by virago at 11:39 AM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
We don't communicate or make each other happy
That is really where everything comes to a screeching halt for me. Why would you give your life to a relationship that doesn't make you happy? Marriage should actively enrich your world, and if you're staying largely out of a sense of guilt or sadness, you are robbing yourself of so much. You (and he) both deserve to be with someone who makes your life better for their presence in it.
How will you know when it's time to leave? When you can truthfully say that you and your partner don't make each other happy.
posted by DingoMutt at 11:44 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
That is really where everything comes to a screeching halt for me. Why would you give your life to a relationship that doesn't make you happy? Marriage should actively enrich your world, and if you're staying largely out of a sense of guilt or sadness, you are robbing yourself of so much. You (and he) both deserve to be with someone who makes your life better for their presence in it.
How will you know when it's time to leave? When you can truthfully say that you and your partner don't make each other happy.
posted by DingoMutt at 11:44 AM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
But the thought of our actual real-life relationship breaking up and going away, and him being out there in the world alone, makes me feel sick and sad... He gets social security disability insurance every month and would probably qualify for benefits if I wasn't supporting him but that's a difficult life and I hate the thought of him out there on his own. I also hate how he would lose face with his friends and family. The thought of him suffering and feeling bad makes me feel bad and I don't want to feel bad.... Does that mean we shouldn't get a divorce? What does it mean?
It means you need to get divorced from someone you care about. Sacrificing the rest of your life and all of your happiness to a nice guy who's a shitty partner so he doesn't look bad to other people is NOT a thing you should do.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:49 PM on December 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
It means you need to get divorced from someone you care about. Sacrificing the rest of your life and all of your happiness to a nice guy who's a shitty partner so he doesn't look bad to other people is NOT a thing you should do.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:49 PM on December 14, 2014 [6 favorites]
You sound kind of codependent. You think he is dependent on you for financial and social status. But he is an adult who is capable of making his own choices. He has chosen not to work on the issues in your marriage. It is not your responsibility to protect him from the consequences of that choice. If you are worried he will be literally homeless or something, it would be kind of you to find someone to help him navigate social services. But his emotional state is not your problem to solve.
freshwater's comment is exactly correct: divorce is like an amputation. It hurts, a lot, even when you know it's the right thing to do. But life will be so, so much better when you are free of that unhealthy piece of you.
posted by desjardins at 1:20 PM on December 14, 2014 [10 favorites]
freshwater's comment is exactly correct: divorce is like an amputation. It hurts, a lot, even when you know it's the right thing to do. But life will be so, so much better when you are free of that unhealthy piece of you.
posted by desjardins at 1:20 PM on December 14, 2014 [10 favorites]
So, you have a complex theory about his inner life, but his inner life and emotions are his own. Pay attention to his behavior; is he kind to you, affectionate, civil? are things getting better or worse. Sometimes marriage is like the apocryphal frog - it kills you by tiny increments and you never jump out of the pot. Most of us would love to be perfectly understood, but it's a pipedream.
Unfortunately life on disability is not easy. Divorce is generally painful and disruptive. Take the time to be sure you want to stay with him, or want to leave. If you leave, you can do your best to help him get settled.
posted by theora55 at 4:19 PM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately life on disability is not easy. Divorce is generally painful and disruptive. Take the time to be sure you want to stay with him, or want to leave. If you leave, you can do your best to help him get settled.
posted by theora55 at 4:19 PM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
One more point ... I note your concern about how he is going to cope out there in the big wide world without you, that you're somehow setting him adrift without support, losing face in front of family and friends. Reality check. His friends and family know his foibles. Trust me.
It took my Man from Pluto less than 3 months to hook up with another woman, in fact two women -- at which time I broke contact with him. He was doing just fine as far as I could gauge. Some things he said about us broke my heart (I'll spare you). It took me longer to process the 12 years I'd spent with him, and then I pulled myself together, started dating casually. That was 4.5 years ago. Life is good.
But what I'm saying is ... if you're staying because you're afraid he won't make it on his own? You probably don't need to worry.
Needy, not so stable guys with problems/issues tend to find women who want to take care of them, and quite quickly. I call it the wounded bird syndrome (picked that up in a book somewhere) and I used to be stuck in that place of finding and caring for such guys. Maybe you do that, too? It's something to think about and watch out for.
If you decide to make a move ... maybe be alone for a while, take care of yourself, define yourself. Let your next partner be reasonably healthy -- baggage in the form of small hand luggage instead of a steamer trunk.
But mostly ... take responsibility for yourself. That's not selfish. That's being a mature adult.
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 5:14 PM on December 14, 2014 [12 favorites]
It took my Man from Pluto less than 3 months to hook up with another woman, in fact two women -- at which time I broke contact with him. He was doing just fine as far as I could gauge. Some things he said about us broke my heart (I'll spare you). It took me longer to process the 12 years I'd spent with him, and then I pulled myself together, started dating casually. That was 4.5 years ago. Life is good.
But what I'm saying is ... if you're staying because you're afraid he won't make it on his own? You probably don't need to worry.
Needy, not so stable guys with problems/issues tend to find women who want to take care of them, and quite quickly. I call it the wounded bird syndrome (picked that up in a book somewhere) and I used to be stuck in that place of finding and caring for such guys. Maybe you do that, too? It's something to think about and watch out for.
If you decide to make a move ... maybe be alone for a while, take care of yourself, define yourself. Let your next partner be reasonably healthy -- baggage in the form of small hand luggage instead of a steamer trunk.
But mostly ... take responsibility for yourself. That's not selfish. That's being a mature adult.
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 5:14 PM on December 14, 2014 [12 favorites]
You mention communication issues, then go on to say, "I complained that he went to the store without offering to take me to Target for the 100th time and connected it to him seeming not to know me that well...."
-You are expecting him to read your mind
-You are expecting him to offer to do the things you want to do
-You are expecting him to deal with your complaining about him being unable to read your mind and offer up something that would please you
-You went on to make a huge assumption and accusation that because of all of the above, he doesn't know you.
You need to work on your communication.
Leaving your husband won't open the door for a psychic intuitive partner.
If you want something from your partner, like a trip to the store, just ask for it. Directly.
Try, "Honey, could we please make a stop at Target on your way to..."
posted by tenaciousmoon at 6:15 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
-You are expecting him to read your mind
-You are expecting him to offer to do the things you want to do
-You are expecting him to deal with your complaining about him being unable to read your mind and offer up something that would please you
-You went on to make a huge assumption and accusation that because of all of the above, he doesn't know you.
You need to work on your communication.
Leaving your husband won't open the door for a psychic intuitive partner.
If you want something from your partner, like a trip to the store, just ask for it. Directly.
Try, "Honey, could we please make a stop at Target on your way to..."
posted by tenaciousmoon at 6:15 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well, how do you feel about spending the next 20 or 30 years doing what you're doing now? How do you think you'll feel at the end of that time if you do? Will you be deeply regretful that you never took the steps necessary to stop a going-nowhere, one-sided relationship when you were younger and able to start a new life on your own? Will you look back on your life and see yourself as foolish for wasting so much time? Or will you instead be glad that the two of you are together still and basically just living in the same house is familiar and therefore enough?
posted by aryma at 6:18 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by aryma at 6:18 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't have any obvious get out of jail free card because my whimsical magical realism description of a complicated situation is not a generally recognized thing. We don't communicate or make each other happy.
This is your actual, non-whimsical description of what's wrong with your relationship. You two are incapable of communicating with each other and won't or can't bridge that gap, and you make each other miserable. You don't need something dramatic like abuse or addiction; this is enough.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:51 PM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is your actual, non-whimsical description of what's wrong with your relationship. You two are incapable of communicating with each other and won't or can't bridge that gap, and you make each other miserable. You don't need something dramatic like abuse or addiction; this is enough.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:51 PM on December 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think psychic powers are not required - when one partner is off to a store, it seems normal to me for that partner to say "I am off to [store] for [thing] - do we need anything else, and do you want to come?"
Maybe I'm thinking this in particular because my partner just went out for something at the Walgreens down the street and she asked me both questions.
posted by rtha at 7:47 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Maybe I'm thinking this in particular because my partner just went out for something at the Walgreens down the street and she asked me both questions.
posted by rtha at 7:47 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
I felt sick and sad when my last (and horrible) relationship ended (even though I knew it was horrible). I think it's within the normal range to feel that way. Maybe for you, some of it's the responsibility you feel; some of it's shock and fear of leaving the known; some if it's grief, for the years lost, for the few and increasingly distant pleasant moments you had, and the hope they fed. You gave years to this, so it's as if a part of you is going with this relationship, which is like a little life of its own. But you'll go on, and so will he.
Or, you can stay together and continue to be as unhappy as you are. Plenty of people stay in unhappy marriages until they die. And that's it, that's their story. They were miserable, and then they died. But, since you're so worried about him, in addition to tragically wasting your own thoughts, energy, and time (not to belabour the point, but - years! Not getting them back!) on someone who doesn't know what to do with them, you are also wasting his life and time by depriving him of the chance to meet someone who is so configured as to understand him. Because there may be someone like that, there was for my ex, just like alwayson_slightlyoff's. There's an arrogance behind the kind of martyrdom you don't want to give up (I say as a former martyr). You think you're the only one who can keep him going (however you define it). It's understandable, because you're used to how things have been so far, between you, and you know your shared history. But the humbling truth is you don't know what kind of potential for happiness either of you have, and could realize, if only you were free of each other.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:46 PM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
Or, you can stay together and continue to be as unhappy as you are. Plenty of people stay in unhappy marriages until they die. And that's it, that's their story. They were miserable, and then they died. But, since you're so worried about him, in addition to tragically wasting your own thoughts, energy, and time (not to belabour the point, but - years! Not getting them back!) on someone who doesn't know what to do with them, you are also wasting his life and time by depriving him of the chance to meet someone who is so configured as to understand him. Because there may be someone like that, there was for my ex, just like alwayson_slightlyoff's. There's an arrogance behind the kind of martyrdom you don't want to give up (I say as a former martyr). You think you're the only one who can keep him going (however you define it). It's understandable, because you're used to how things have been so far, between you, and you know your shared history. But the humbling truth is you don't know what kind of potential for happiness either of you have, and could realize, if only you were free of each other.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:46 PM on December 14, 2014 [5 favorites]
+1 tenaciousmoon
We don't know the context so maybe it was called for that he asked if you wanted to go to Target (example: his store was right next to it, you were visibly bored/needed something to do, etc...); or maybe it is completely reasonable that he go on his own (felt like time alone out of the house, was going to a store first that he knew didn't interest you, his store was nowhere near Target, etc.) No one here can say for sure.
But I hope you didn't actually lob this at him "connected it to him seeming not to know me that well...." It is one thing to say, "Hey, I would appreciate it if you would have asked me to go, I'd like to spend more time with you.", which is a constructive way to address what happened. "You don't know me well at all"- pretty accusatory and inflammatory. This doesn't provide a good base from which to start to resolve communication problems or even motivate people to want to improve communication.
posted by incolorinred at 10:06 PM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
We don't know the context so maybe it was called for that he asked if you wanted to go to Target (example: his store was right next to it, you were visibly bored/needed something to do, etc...); or maybe it is completely reasonable that he go on his own (felt like time alone out of the house, was going to a store first that he knew didn't interest you, his store was nowhere near Target, etc.) No one here can say for sure.
But I hope you didn't actually lob this at him "connected it to him seeming not to know me that well...." It is one thing to say, "Hey, I would appreciate it if you would have asked me to go, I'd like to spend more time with you.", which is a constructive way to address what happened. "You don't know me well at all"- pretty accusatory and inflammatory. This doesn't provide a good base from which to start to resolve communication problems or even motivate people to want to improve communication.
posted by incolorinred at 10:06 PM on December 14, 2014 [3 favorites]
Are you married to this man or are you parenting him? The way I hear you talk about him sounds as if you are worried about abandoning a child. Also, being able to know what another person is thinking is probably an unrealistic expectation.
I have been in similar situations. What I realized was that I was trying to parent my inner child by controlling other people. Understanding that I am powerless over others has been the thing that has saved my life. I think your ambivalence points to a deeper insight to be gained from this situation.
posted by macinchik at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
I have been in similar situations. What I realized was that I was trying to parent my inner child by controlling other people. Understanding that I am powerless over others has been the thing that has saved my life. I think your ambivalence points to a deeper insight to be gained from this situation.
posted by macinchik at 10:20 PM on December 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Look, if you are asking whether it's justifiable for you to want to share your life with someone who actually connects with you, someone who doesn't make you feel like half of his brain is in a different dimension (what a horrible, lonely feeling that must be!), then yes, I am telling you you have a right and in a way, a duty to make your life as fulfilling as possible within ethical limits.
The marriage you describe sounds so sad. So depressingly lonely for you. He does not want therapy because he is okay with the fact that all the negative consequences of his attitude fall on you.
If you so desperately need a sign, then wait until your next anniversary, if you must. Write yourself a letter describing this situation and if by your next anniversary you read your letter and the situation hasn't changed, then consider that the sign you were waiting for.
posted by Tarumba at 6:51 AM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
The marriage you describe sounds so sad. So depressingly lonely for you. He does not want therapy because he is okay with the fact that all the negative consequences of his attitude fall on you.
If you so desperately need a sign, then wait until your next anniversary, if you must. Write yourself a letter describing this situation and if by your next anniversary you read your letter and the situation hasn't changed, then consider that the sign you were waiting for.
posted by Tarumba at 6:51 AM on December 15, 2014 [2 favorites]
It might be helpful to very explicitly put the ball in his court so that you can see the extent to which he is not willing to improve the relationship (or be pleasantly surprised). It is also helpful because, if you have had conflict for some time, he may know you're not happy, but that might be "status quo" to him; he might not realize you're so unhappy that the relationship is in crisis and that you're considering divorce. I'd put it in writing.
You could use a modified version of Ruthless Bunny's script: "I'm very unhappy in our marriage. I have tried everything I can think of to turn it around. I have a lot of conflicting feelings and unresolved concerns and I can't communicate effectively with you. We have tried to resolve this on our own, and it has not worked. I've asked you repeatedly to go to couples therapy with me to try to change things, and you have declined. I'm asking you one more time, in my last attempt to save our marriage. I believe we need outside expertise to help us reconcile our different communication styles. If you have an alternative solution, I'd consider it, but I would like for us to take some action. Otherwise, I believe we need to begin to dissolve our marriage because I simply cannot go on as we are now. Please let me know what you think (or that you need more time to think this over) by [2-3 days from now]."
Then, if he refuses to go and suggests no alternative, you know that he would rather divorce than work towards improving the relationship.
posted by salvia at 12:07 PM on December 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
You could use a modified version of Ruthless Bunny's script: "I'm very unhappy in our marriage. I have tried everything I can think of to turn it around. I have a lot of conflicting feelings and unresolved concerns and I can't communicate effectively with you. We have tried to resolve this on our own, and it has not worked. I've asked you repeatedly to go to couples therapy with me to try to change things, and you have declined. I'm asking you one more time, in my last attempt to save our marriage. I believe we need outside expertise to help us reconcile our different communication styles. If you have an alternative solution, I'd consider it, but I would like for us to take some action. Otherwise, I believe we need to begin to dissolve our marriage because I simply cannot go on as we are now. Please let me know what you think (or that you need more time to think this over) by [2-3 days from now]."
Then, if he refuses to go and suggests no alternative, you know that he would rather divorce than work towards improving the relationship.
posted by salvia at 12:07 PM on December 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Marriage is about both people trying, and both people wanting the other to be happy. If he's not trying to make you happy, then he's not actively participating in this marriage.
I know it sounds cruel to someone who has a disability to want to leave them, but you have to, as a person, take care of yourself first. A miserable partner isn't going to lead to a happy life, and it sounds like you're very miserable because of this marriage right now.
You might not have to divorce, but if he won't participate in things (counseling, talking about what would make you happy), I fear that's really the way it's going to have to go.
posted by xingcat at 6:15 AM on December 14, 2014 [6 favorites]