I see trouble on the way
November 28, 2014 9:40 AM Subscribe
My mom has been attending a new church whose congregants regularly fret over what they call "The Black Moon." The talk amongst the folks there (though not--as far as I know--from the pulpit itself) is that the Bible predicts a stock market crash in October of next year. What in the holy hell are they talking about? And, on a scale of one to ten, exactly how bananas are these people?
FWIW, though this Black Moon crowd is planning o. Liquidating their assets in preparation for this, my mom is leaving her investments as is, so I'm not worried she's going to be swept up in this silliness financially.
I'm a resolutely atheist person myself, but I'm trying to be sensitive to the fact that my mom really seems to need the community afforded her by going to church. She'd been lonely since she'd stopped going to her old church in the wake of my brother's divorce. (Pretty much all of the actors in that drama still go there and my mom didn't like being in the middle.) Church is good for her. And I know that the weird things old people talk about in the pews do not likely represent the actual positions of the church itself.
But what exactly is "The Black Moon"? And is this just low level malarkey or part of something truly crazy?
FWIW, though this Black Moon crowd is planning o. Liquidating their assets in preparation for this, my mom is leaving her investments as is, so I'm not worried she's going to be swept up in this silliness financially.
I'm a resolutely atheist person myself, but I'm trying to be sensitive to the fact that my mom really seems to need the community afforded her by going to church. She'd been lonely since she'd stopped going to her old church in the wake of my brother's divorce. (Pretty much all of the actors in that drama still go there and my mom didn't like being in the middle.) Church is good for her. And I know that the weird things old people talk about in the pews do not likely represent the actual positions of the church itself.
But what exactly is "The Black Moon"? And is this just low level malarkey or part of something truly crazy?
A black moon is when you have two new moons in one month. The second one is called a "black moon". What this has to do with stock market crashes is anyone's guess. October does have a reputation of being a bad month for stocks, but that reputation is not entirely warranted.
It's worth noting that the next black moon will be October 2016, not 2015.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:50 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's worth noting that the next black moon will be October 2016, not 2015.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:50 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
my mom is leaving her investments as is, so I'm not worried she's going to be swept up in this silliness financially.
Depends how long she spends there and how serious she gets? Keep Checking in on that.
posted by klausman at 9:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [27 favorites]
Depends how long she spends there and how serious she gets? Keep Checking in on that.
posted by klausman at 9:53 AM on November 28, 2014 [27 favorites]
The latest craze on the conspiracy theory front is Astro-Theology or Astrolatry.
I didn't read the Wikipedia link there past the definition.
Anywho. It's religion based on the movements of objects (comets, planets, galaxies, etc.) out in space. The current craze is that the "elites" use the motions of the planets & other things in space to time their evil machinations - like starting wars, collapsing economies, assassinating government leaders, choosing the dates for sporting events, controlling the weather and causing earthquakes, tsunamis, oil spills....
Uh? Where were we??
There is some or a lot of truth to some of this, depending if you are talking about ancient civilizations, or more modern day stuff like the Reagan Administration....
But a church based on this?
Yeaaaaaah. Watch your mom's finances.
posted by jbenben at 10:11 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
I didn't read the Wikipedia link there past the definition.
Anywho. It's religion based on the movements of objects (comets, planets, galaxies, etc.) out in space. The current craze is that the "elites" use the motions of the planets & other things in space to time their evil machinations - like starting wars, collapsing economies, assassinating government leaders, choosing the dates for sporting events, controlling the weather and causing earthquakes, tsunamis, oil spills....
Uh? Where were we??
There is some or a lot of truth to some of this, depending if you are talking about ancient civilizations, or more modern day stuff like the Reagan Administration....
But a church based on this?
Yeaaaaaah. Watch your mom's finances.
posted by jbenben at 10:11 AM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'd like to clarify.
There is legit research on some of this stuff, and I'm not snarking on that. I'm also not snarking on your mom. Sorry if I came off like an asshole.
I have to assume that anyone talking about this from the pulpit has an angle to work. Or maybe the pastor is just really caught up in parroting fear mongering stuff?
IDK.
This kind of thing works on gullible folks because there is enough truth in there to make it enticing.
Without hearing more about these sermons and the overall mission statement of this group, no one can say how harmful or harmless it is.
It sounds unhealthy because it is emotion/fear based. I'll say that for definite.
Keep an eye out.
If you want to talk to your mom, don't pick on the information, pick on how it is being used to create fear.
That's not what church and a spiritual community is supposed to be about.
posted by jbenben at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2014 [6 favorites]
There is legit research on some of this stuff, and I'm not snarking on that. I'm also not snarking on your mom. Sorry if I came off like an asshole.
I have to assume that anyone talking about this from the pulpit has an angle to work. Or maybe the pastor is just really caught up in parroting fear mongering stuff?
IDK.
This kind of thing works on gullible folks because there is enough truth in there to make it enticing.
Without hearing more about these sermons and the overall mission statement of this group, no one can say how harmful or harmless it is.
It sounds unhealthy because it is emotion/fear based. I'll say that for definite.
Keep an eye out.
If you want to talk to your mom, don't pick on the information, pick on how it is being used to create fear.
That's not what church and a spiritual community is supposed to be about.
posted by jbenben at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2014 [6 favorites]
Best answer: As a frame of reference, I'm a moderate-to-conservative Christian, so you and Starbreaker probably consider me bananas. :-) And I would consider this bananas. On a scale of 1-10? FORTY-TWO.
The only talk in the New Testament part of the Bible, anyway, about moons, spiritual powers out there, etc., etc., to worry about is, in my opinion, passages like Colossians chapter 2 in which Paul says NOT to concern yourself with that stuff, because Christ is in control. I'm pretty familiar with denominations ranging from mainstream to a bit nutty in both directions (liberal and conservative) and know of none that teach this kind of astrology/astronomy gibberish - it sounds New Agey, to paint a broad brush.
You raise a very good point in distinguishing what the rank and file are talking among themselves about vs. what the leadership is talking about/what's being taught from the pulpit or in the classrooms. I'd want to know whether we're talking 1-2 people talking crazy talk (which is inevitable in any group of 50 or more people which make up a church, synagogue, basketball pep band, or whatever), a BUNCH of people talking crazy talk, but not endorsed by the leadership (could be a problem, or a sign of a coming split/schism/craziness in the church), or, worst of all, something the leaders are selling (RUN AWAY!).
Is your mom of an age where your obtaining a power of attorney would be at all appropriate, or does she at least talk to you before making big financial decisions? Do you have direct access to see her online banking or the like? Tithing to a bunch like this is no more of a financial problem than any other minor charitable contribution (I hate to see a penny go to dishonest people; just saying I wouldn't die on that particular hill), but if she starts giving major money to these folks I'd really step up the program on trying to convince her.
As others have said, it can be hard to get someone to open their eyes if they're selling an overall philosophy about all this and providing hours and hours of "proof" - I agree with jbenben that pointing out the overall atmosphere of fear and misery is more likely to get her to come around. Don't try to go point by point on a set of craziness like this because there's an answer to EVERYTHING...
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:56 AM on November 28, 2014 [15 favorites]
The only talk in the New Testament part of the Bible, anyway, about moons, spiritual powers out there, etc., etc., to worry about is, in my opinion, passages like Colossians chapter 2 in which Paul says NOT to concern yourself with that stuff, because Christ is in control. I'm pretty familiar with denominations ranging from mainstream to a bit nutty in both directions (liberal and conservative) and know of none that teach this kind of astrology/astronomy gibberish - it sounds New Agey, to paint a broad brush.
You raise a very good point in distinguishing what the rank and file are talking among themselves about vs. what the leadership is talking about/what's being taught from the pulpit or in the classrooms. I'd want to know whether we're talking 1-2 people talking crazy talk (which is inevitable in any group of 50 or more people which make up a church, synagogue, basketball pep band, or whatever), a BUNCH of people talking crazy talk, but not endorsed by the leadership (could be a problem, or a sign of a coming split/schism/craziness in the church), or, worst of all, something the leaders are selling (RUN AWAY!).
Is your mom of an age where your obtaining a power of attorney would be at all appropriate, or does she at least talk to you before making big financial decisions? Do you have direct access to see her online banking or the like? Tithing to a bunch like this is no more of a financial problem than any other minor charitable contribution (I hate to see a penny go to dishonest people; just saying I wouldn't die on that particular hill), but if she starts giving major money to these folks I'd really step up the program on trying to convince her.
As others have said, it can be hard to get someone to open their eyes if they're selling an overall philosophy about all this and providing hours and hours of "proof" - I agree with jbenben that pointing out the overall atmosphere of fear and misery is more likely to get her to come around. Don't try to go point by point on a set of craziness like this because there's an answer to EVERYTHING...
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:56 AM on November 28, 2014 [15 favorites]
There's always something like this going around, and you'll notice it's always a year or two away. This Wikipedia list, which surely isn't comprehensive, lists nine failed predictions of the apocalypse just since 2010. The Pew Research Foundation has some data suggesting ~25% of Americans believe in some form of astrology not to mention all sorts of other mix-and-match new age stuff. Irrational as it might seem, a significant chunk of Americans have at least some level of engagement with this sort of thing. It's not odd that it'd be discussed in social settings. The "old people who think we're headed to heck in a handbasket and are stocking up on gold and MREs is a sterotype but does contain a kernel of truth. If it weren't a common belief we wouldn't have so many businesses and ads catering to it.
Assuming, as your question seems to imply, that this isn't coming from the pulpit but is more just some of the churchgoers chatting after the service I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems like your dialogue with your mom regarding finances is open and honest enough that she'd bring any major changes up with you before going through with them. Focus on maintaining that and don't worry about what the church friends are doing.
And remember: Reality is an illusion! The universe is a hologram! Buy gold!
posted by Wretch729 at 11:01 AM on November 28, 2014
Assuming, as your question seems to imply, that this isn't coming from the pulpit but is more just some of the churchgoers chatting after the service I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems like your dialogue with your mom regarding finances is open and honest enough that she'd bring any major changes up with you before going through with them. Focus on maintaining that and don't worry about what the church friends are doing.
And remember: Reality is an illusion! The universe is a hologram! Buy gold!
posted by Wretch729 at 11:01 AM on November 28, 2014
Nthing the suggestion to check in on your mom's finances. I'm a big reader of non-fiction, and I've noticed that the common denominator among small, outlying religious groups/sects/denominations is that sooner or later, an appeal is made to members along the lines of "If you were really committed, you would share what you have for the good of the group." The ask doesn't have to be overt to be effective; in fact, from what I can see, the more subtle, the better.
posted by virago at 11:02 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by virago at 11:02 AM on November 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
On preview: randomkeystrike and Wretch729 have it. Keep the lines of communication open with your mom, then you'll know whether or not the woo is pervasive (and top-down) enough to worry about.
posted by virago at 11:15 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by virago at 11:15 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Assuming it's not coming from the pulpit, it might be kind for you or your mom to drop the pastor a note about it. From his trusted position he might be able to mention something, either from the pulpit or to the individuals concerns that could stop peope from doing harm to themselves by liquidating assets etc.
It could be a good deed.
fwiw: This doesn't sound like anything that would be coming from the puplit or theology of any even slightly mainstream Christian denomination.
posted by pseudonick at 11:35 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
It could be a good deed.
fwiw: This doesn't sound like anything that would be coming from the puplit or theology of any even slightly mainstream Christian denomination.
posted by pseudonick at 11:35 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's hard to know how to answer this, because of course this is not real. Financial markets don't crash based on the phases of the moon or anything said in any church. Also, Christianity has nothing in it about weird astronomical omens, nevermind anything about predicting financial market behavior.
But yeah I mean I guess if your mom is getting something out of it, and she's not staking her finances on it, why not?
FWIW I grew up in the Bible Belt and shit like this is pretty thick on the ground wherever there are small non-demoninational congregations like this. Fundy Christian groups tend to attract people who are swept up in all sorts of superstitions and conspiracy theories.
posted by Sara C. at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
But yeah I mean I guess if your mom is getting something out of it, and she's not staking her finances on it, why not?
FWIW I grew up in the Bible Belt and shit like this is pretty thick on the ground wherever there are small non-demoninational congregations like this. Fundy Christian groups tend to attract people who are swept up in all sorts of superstitions and conspiracy theories.
posted by Sara C. at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
If the stock market crashes in October 16 it'll be because the Fed raised rates too early. So unless "Black Moon" refers to Chairwoman Yellen somehow, this is a 30 bananas crazy. (If it does implicate the Fed it's only like 12 bananas crazy; don't time the market, and certainly don't time the market timing the Fed)
posted by PMdixon at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014
posted by PMdixon at 12:12 PM on November 28, 2014
I suspect there is at least one person in the congregation selling 'investments' which will shelter people's money from the "Black Moon", and that as soon as they are able to determine your mom has enough money to make it worth their while to steal, and provided she hasn't been too skeptical in conversation so far, she will be invited to a small get-together to 'explore' these ideas.
There she may well be the only mark, and the others will be the presenter and their confederates, one of whom will pretend to be a noob like your mom, and the others will be satisfied and enthusiastic customers.
The real question in my mind is whether the pastor is in on it.
Unless the church is so big the pastor couldn't possibly know everyone, my guess would be yes.
posted by jamjam at 1:42 PM on November 28, 2014 [12 favorites]
There she may well be the only mark, and the others will be the presenter and their confederates, one of whom will pretend to be a noob like your mom, and the others will be satisfied and enthusiastic customers.
The real question in my mind is whether the pastor is in on it.
Unless the church is so big the pastor couldn't possibly know everyone, my guess would be yes.
posted by jamjam at 1:42 PM on November 28, 2014 [12 favorites]
I wonder if she is talking about this:
"Megachurch pastor, televangelist and author John Hagee is warning his congregation and the rest of mankind that there's a "world-shaking event that will happen between April 2014 and October 2015."
He's talking about the four 'blood moon' lunar eclipses that will make their first appearance on April 15.
Hagee, who is founder of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, TX, believes the "four blood moons," (four consecutive and complete lunar eclipses) also known as a lunar tetrad, is a significant event."
see this link:
posted by SyraCarol at 3:57 PM on November 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Wikipedia: Blood Moon Prophecy.
(I just, one comment ago, learned this thing existed--I was hoping it was about Black Moon.)
posted by box at 4:27 PM on November 28, 2014
(I just, one comment ago, learned this thing existed--I was hoping it was about Black Moon.)
posted by box at 4:27 PM on November 28, 2014
I would totally freak out if I were you and I would offer to escort my mom to any other church every Sunday until she finds one that is based on Biblical teachings and not superstitious, cult-like crazy talk. You can read the Bible forwards, backwards, and upside down without finding any mention of the stock market. Even if this isn't from the pulpit, she is elbow to elbow with some gullible, misguided people and that is not a safe crowd for anyone. A good church is good for her. A bad church is dangerous for everyone involved. Also, a good church would have nipped this superstitious mess in the bud, from the pulpit.
posted by myselfasme at 9:32 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by myselfasme at 9:32 PM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
I believe the correct descriptor for these folks is lunatic. Your mother would do well to distance herself from them. This is not to say that you ought to distance yourself from your mother. Just the opposite.
Encourage your mother to talk with pastors or priests of another church--probably Christian, because this group of blockheads probably call themselves some flavor of Christian. You might even make a few phone calls to local churches. It's possible that they are aware of this group, and may be able offer you some specific advice regarding these lunatics. Groups like this use various tactics to isolate their members from those who may be likely to debunk their beliefs.
I don't know if these zoners are running a scam, but I would look for signs, such as the members "pooling" their money in preparation for the big day. If you suspect anything like that you ought to notify a law enforcement office. If this is the case someone already is likely to be aware of it.
posted by mule98J at 12:04 AM on November 29, 2014
Encourage your mother to talk with pastors or priests of another church--probably Christian, because this group of blockheads probably call themselves some flavor of Christian. You might even make a few phone calls to local churches. It's possible that they are aware of this group, and may be able offer you some specific advice regarding these lunatics. Groups like this use various tactics to isolate their members from those who may be likely to debunk their beliefs.
I don't know if these zoners are running a scam, but I would look for signs, such as the members "pooling" their money in preparation for the big day. If you suspect anything like that you ought to notify a law enforcement office. If this is the case someone already is likely to be aware of it.
posted by mule98J at 12:04 AM on November 29, 2014
There is plenty of Astrotheology in Christianity and The Bible! Numerology and other stuff, too.
The New Testament starts off when Jesus is born and 3 wise men follow a star to find him as a babe in the manger. I mean, it sorta gives you the big hint right there that watching the sky is important and contains portents or messages. It's how the whole show kicks off.
Heaps of videos about the deeper astrological subtext of stories in The Bible, of varying quality, are all over YouTube. I'll provide a link to a regular type website with a bunch of decent examples, scroll halfway down for examples and annotations to other researchers the author cites.
Marty Leeds on his YouTube channel does a lot of great vids explaining the Numerology in The Bible.
It is false to say this stuff does not exist, or that these people are lunatics, just because the information they're on about is new to you. This is not being helpful, and I hope the OP ignores the temptation to point and laugh at anyone else for any reason.
Ahem.
The problem is that the info is presented alongside emotional pleas for (the victim's) attention and outright fear mongering. At this point, it is wise for the OP to look for a sales pitch or some type of coercion, because it is coming.
OP, don't pick on the beliefs, pick on the negative tone and the fear mongering.
If your mom is turned on by this type of info, she would probably love books on comparative mythology, too. She doesn't have to stop pursuing controversial topics if that's her thing.
You say she is looking for a new spiritual community away from the divisive atmosphere of her last congregation? Focus on this.
Help her find a lovely place to worship on Sundays.
Remind what she was looking for when she decided to leave her old congregation. Make that positive desire she once held more powerful than whatever rabbit hole she's lately gotten lost in.
Help her out by staying positive.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 12:54 AM on November 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
The New Testament starts off when Jesus is born and 3 wise men follow a star to find him as a babe in the manger. I mean, it sorta gives you the big hint right there that watching the sky is important and contains portents or messages. It's how the whole show kicks off.
Heaps of videos about the deeper astrological subtext of stories in The Bible, of varying quality, are all over YouTube. I'll provide a link to a regular type website with a bunch of decent examples, scroll halfway down for examples and annotations to other researchers the author cites.
Marty Leeds on his YouTube channel does a lot of great vids explaining the Numerology in The Bible.
It is false to say this stuff does not exist, or that these people are lunatics, just because the information they're on about is new to you. This is not being helpful, and I hope the OP ignores the temptation to point and laugh at anyone else for any reason.
Ahem.
The problem is that the info is presented alongside emotional pleas for (the victim's) attention and outright fear mongering. At this point, it is wise for the OP to look for a sales pitch or some type of coercion, because it is coming.
OP, don't pick on the beliefs, pick on the negative tone and the fear mongering.
If your mom is turned on by this type of info, she would probably love books on comparative mythology, too. She doesn't have to stop pursuing controversial topics if that's her thing.
You say she is looking for a new spiritual community away from the divisive atmosphere of her last congregation? Focus on this.
Help her find a lovely place to worship on Sundays.
Remind what she was looking for when she decided to leave her old congregation. Make that positive desire she once held more powerful than whatever rabbit hole she's lately gotten lost in.
Help her out by staying positive.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 12:54 AM on November 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I was able to slip this topic into another conversation last night and got great news: it was people in her old church who were on about the Black Moon, not people from the new church.
Even better, the conversation I slipped this into was about incessant sales calls she's been getting since my dad died. My mom was ranting about predators trying to scare older people and separate them from their hard-earned savings. I suggested the Black Moon thing was the same stuff in a different suit. My mom responded to that very well.
Also, randomkeystrike's Bible verse was GOLD. My mom remembered that verse and--though she knew it as one discouraging astrology and horoscopes--saw an immediate and strong connection to this topic as well. So thanks for that.
The best news is still that it was her old church, not the new one. My mom is a pretty sharp lady, but being away from those types can't hurt. Thanks everybody.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:42 AM on November 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
Even better, the conversation I slipped this into was about incessant sales calls she's been getting since my dad died. My mom was ranting about predators trying to scare older people and separate them from their hard-earned savings. I suggested the Black Moon thing was the same stuff in a different suit. My mom responded to that very well.
Also, randomkeystrike's Bible verse was GOLD. My mom remembered that verse and--though she knew it as one discouraging astrology and horoscopes--saw an immediate and strong connection to this topic as well. So thanks for that.
The best news is still that it was her old church, not the new one. My mom is a pretty sharp lady, but being away from those types can't hurt. Thanks everybody.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:42 AM on November 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
Pretty sure there is going to a a supermoon/eclipse around then as well
Nope. Annular solar eclipse September 1 2016. No solar or lunar eclipses in October 2016. There will be a supermoon November 14, 2016. Supermoons are mostly media hype, anyway. They happen when the moon's closest approach to Earth (perigee) coincides with the full moon. Of course, the moon goes through perigee every month in the course of its orbit, the only thing special about a supermoon is that it happens at the full moon. There's no extra gravity or anything, the moon's illumination does not affect its gravity.
posted by Anne Neville at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
Nope. Annular solar eclipse September 1 2016. No solar or lunar eclipses in October 2016. There will be a supermoon November 14, 2016. Supermoons are mostly media hype, anyway. They happen when the moon's closest approach to Earth (perigee) coincides with the full moon. Of course, the moon goes through perigee every month in the course of its orbit, the only thing special about a supermoon is that it happens at the full moon. There's no extra gravity or anything, the moon's illumination does not affect its gravity.
posted by Anne Neville at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Upcoming Black Moon
October 2016 will have two New Moons - on October 1, 2016 and on October 30, 2016. The second New Moon on October 30, 2016 will be a Black Moon. This New Moon will also be the third New Moon in a season of four New Moons, so it is a Black Moon by that second definition too.
Pretty sure there is going to a a supermoon/eclipse around then as well, and these folk are getting them confused? what kind of church is it?
Probably harmless malarkey, just make sure no one talks your mom into turning everything into gold.
posted by vrakatar at 9:50 AM on November 28, 2014 [1 favorite]