Help with fire ceremony for wedding!
November 24, 2014 1:11 AM Subscribe
At our wedding, we want to light a fire in one location (the ceremony site) and after a brief period, say 10 minutes, transport it to another location. Ideally, we would light a fire in a ceremonial bowl with handles that do not transmit heat, then have our two "attendants" use those handles to carry that whole bowl to the real fire pit as part of the procession out. Does such a thing exist? If not, how could we pull this off?
Some have suggested that we light a candle instead, but we would prefer if what we light feels more like a "fire" than like a "candle" or "torch" for a whole bunch of symbolic reasons.
Thanks for any ideas you might have as to how to pull this off!
Some have suggested that we light a candle instead, but we would prefer if what we light feels more like a "fire" than like a "candle" or "torch" for a whole bunch of symbolic reasons.
Thanks for any ideas you might have as to how to pull this off!
The vessel you're describing sounds somewhat like a wok.
Also, I wanted to comment that 10 minutes is a non-trivial amount of time to have a fire going in a container without having to add more fuel along the way. Are you imagining it leaping to life instantly at the touch of a match and burning consistently until the fuel is gone (liquid fossil fuels) or are you shooting for a fire that kindles slowly and builds to a crescendo (wood fuel)? Whichever way you go, I'd suggest practicing with the same amounts and arrangement of the same fuel you'll use during the ceremony, to get a sense of the process and timing.
posted by jon1270 at 4:53 AM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also, I wanted to comment that 10 minutes is a non-trivial amount of time to have a fire going in a container without having to add more fuel along the way. Are you imagining it leaping to life instantly at the touch of a match and burning consistently until the fuel is gone (liquid fossil fuels) or are you shooting for a fire that kindles slowly and builds to a crescendo (wood fuel)? Whichever way you go, I'd suggest practicing with the same amounts and arrangement of the same fuel you'll use during the ceremony, to get a sense of the process and timing.
posted by jon1270 at 4:53 AM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Best answer: What a neat idea!
Could your ceremonial bowl look like this? And could the fire consist of a mixture of small cubes of wood and fire lighters (the kind that's used for lighting a BBQ)? That would be easy to set on fire, yet last for longer than 10 minutes, and be easy to pour out into a fire pit (which could also have some fire lighters waiting in the right spot).
Or the people who carried the fire out could stick it in a prepared spot in the fire pit, underneath the firewood, and then add (light and very dry) wood to it so the flames would go higher and light the fire.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:53 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Could your ceremonial bowl look like this? And could the fire consist of a mixture of small cubes of wood and fire lighters (the kind that's used for lighting a BBQ)? That would be easy to set on fire, yet last for longer than 10 minutes, and be easy to pour out into a fire pit (which could also have some fire lighters waiting in the right spot).
Or the people who carried the fire out could stick it in a prepared spot in the fire pit, underneath the firewood, and then add (light and very dry) wood to it so the flames would go higher and light the fire.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:53 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: A big wok could easily accommodate quite a decent campfire, and dumping a well-established campfire on top of a properly prepared top-down fire should light it up completely reliably.
You'd want a metal bucket full of sand to sit your wok on, and your attendants would want elbow-length heavy gloves.
posted by flabdablet at 5:52 AM on November 24, 2014
You'd want a metal bucket full of sand to sit your wok on, and your attendants would want elbow-length heavy gloves.
posted by flabdablet at 5:52 AM on November 24, 2014
You could probably put a gel fuel can into a wok, surrounded by decorative / aquarium rocks to hide the can.
posted by Mchelly at 6:56 AM on November 24, 2014
posted by Mchelly at 6:56 AM on November 24, 2014
I have made firedancing equipment as a sideline. A large wick would probably burn for more than 10 minutes if sitting still, and should give you a fairly impressive fire. I'd use lamp oil mixed with a little white gas as fuel. You could get a large brass bowl (or small brass planter) off ebay and just drop the wick in there. Transferring the fire from the bowl to whatever else you were going to light off it might be a bit tricky. You'd probably want to use barbecue tongs.
Alternatively, you could get something like this patio torch and drop it in a big bowl. It uses exactly the same kind of wick and reservoir as a tiki torch, so it will give you exactly that kind of fire, which is less dramatic than you'd get using a firedancing wick, but will go on for a few hours. If you used something like this, you could just lift the whole torch out of the bowl, but getting it to light something below it would be a problem. You might need to find another way to transfer the flame.
posted by adamrice at 7:22 AM on November 24, 2014
Alternatively, you could get something like this patio torch and drop it in a big bowl. It uses exactly the same kind of wick and reservoir as a tiki torch, so it will give you exactly that kind of fire, which is less dramatic than you'd get using a firedancing wick, but will go on for a few hours. If you used something like this, you could just lift the whole torch out of the bowl, but getting it to light something below it would be a problem. You might need to find another way to transfer the flame.
posted by adamrice at 7:22 AM on November 24, 2014
Response by poster: Thanks! I hadn't even considered fuel. I guess I'd assumed we would use campfire wood, kindling, and fire starters, probably doused in lighter fluid. But the comments on fuel are helpful.
I particularly appreciate the comments on supplies. Do people think that that wok is the way to go (on a base stabilizer, on a tray of sand)?
posted by slidell at 9:11 AM on November 24, 2014
I particularly appreciate the comments on supplies. Do people think that that wok is the way to go (on a base stabilizer, on a tray of sand)?
posted by slidell at 9:11 AM on November 24, 2014
Response by poster: And to clarify, I think our ideal is for the fire to look real and grow over time. Lighting and staying lit is the top priority, but looking like a real wood fire would be great. Being big and dramatic isn't a priority at all; we wouldn't be the "sudden pillar of flame" type even if our setup allowed for it.
Few people will be watching when we transfer the fire. I do think we could build it such that someone could insert the burning pan from below, if it did have a long handle. But the metaphor will still hold even if all they do is use these flames to light the rolled up newspaper that they insert into the bonfire.
Thanks!
posted by slidell at 9:39 AM on November 24, 2014
Few people will be watching when we transfer the fire. I do think we could build it such that someone could insert the burning pan from below, if it did have a long handle. But the metaphor will still hold even if all they do is use these flames to light the rolled up newspaper that they insert into the bonfire.
Thanks!
posted by slidell at 9:39 AM on November 24, 2014
Response by poster: Also, last comment, we live in West Oakland so we could easily head over to connect with some of the fire experts at The Crucible (or anywhere else you suggest?). That was a great suggestion.
posted by slidell at 9:42 AM on November 24, 2014
posted by slidell at 9:42 AM on November 24, 2014
Best answer: Here's boilermonster's suggestions regarding the heat retention problems:
Get a huge wok (Kamei in San Francisco on Clement has them, for instance) and a smaller one that will nest in it. Get the ones with handles on both sides. If the handles aren't wood, wrap the handles in cotton or sisal rope (glued with silicone, which can handle up to 500F). If you don't know if your rope is cotton or sisal, burn a bit of it. If it melts, it is NOT the right kind.
Line the huge wok with ceramic wool (buy at Leslie's Ceramics in Berkeley- they might even have scraps, which will work) or 1" thick fiberglass insulation (like the pink fuzzy stuff) if you can get a small amount of it, or 1-1.5" thick heat blanket (but make sure to peel off any paper or plastic backing).
FOAM INSULATION WILL NOT WORK.
Stick this stuff down to the large wok with a bead of silicon glue- you don't need a lot- you just want to keep it from skidding around.
Nest a smaller wok into the ceramic wool, and stick that one down to the wool with silicone also.
In addition, maybe take brass or baling wire (not aluminum) attach it to the handle of the LARGE wok on one side and crisscross the wire over the top of the small wok a couple times to the opposite handle so that if one person drops it disaster doesn't automatically ensue.
This assumes you're using wood, which he thinks will work fine. (If you're thinking liquid fuel the advice would be different.) He suggests using pine kindling with a tablespoon of kerosene to get it going. Even pieces of a Duraflame log mixed in to keep it going would probably work, and if you can find some hardwood it'll keep it going longer.
Carriers' hands will get toasty so make sure they have gloves. There are some snazzy looking white gauntlet welding gloves but gauntleted rose gardening gloves would work too, so long as they're really leather or cotton- I keep seeing synthetic ones around.
Finally, practice all of this ahead of time. Make sure it works. Time how long the fuel takes to ignite satisfactorily. Time how long your fuel will burn. Use a stopwatch. You don't want it going out to soon or taking forever to get lit. Check the handles of the bowl to see how hot they actually get.
Take the wind into account- if it's going to be in the wind it will change things. Keep the fire small so that the wind won't blow flames onto the person/people holding the bowl.
It's not a bad idea to keep a couple of buckets of water discreetly to the side and a couple of people ASSIGNED to use them if it becomes necessary.
(If you want to get fancier, I have IMed you my email address.)
posted by small_ruminant at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Get a huge wok (Kamei in San Francisco on Clement has them, for instance) and a smaller one that will nest in it. Get the ones with handles on both sides. If the handles aren't wood, wrap the handles in cotton or sisal rope (glued with silicone, which can handle up to 500F). If you don't know if your rope is cotton or sisal, burn a bit of it. If it melts, it is NOT the right kind.
Line the huge wok with ceramic wool (buy at Leslie's Ceramics in Berkeley- they might even have scraps, which will work) or 1" thick fiberglass insulation (like the pink fuzzy stuff) if you can get a small amount of it, or 1-1.5" thick heat blanket (but make sure to peel off any paper or plastic backing).
FOAM INSULATION WILL NOT WORK.
Stick this stuff down to the large wok with a bead of silicon glue- you don't need a lot- you just want to keep it from skidding around.
Nest a smaller wok into the ceramic wool, and stick that one down to the wool with silicone also.
In addition, maybe take brass or baling wire (not aluminum) attach it to the handle of the LARGE wok on one side and crisscross the wire over the top of the small wok a couple times to the opposite handle so that if one person drops it disaster doesn't automatically ensue.
This assumes you're using wood, which he thinks will work fine. (If you're thinking liquid fuel the advice would be different.) He suggests using pine kindling with a tablespoon of kerosene to get it going. Even pieces of a Duraflame log mixed in to keep it going would probably work, and if you can find some hardwood it'll keep it going longer.
Carriers' hands will get toasty so make sure they have gloves. There are some snazzy looking white gauntlet welding gloves but gauntleted rose gardening gloves would work too, so long as they're really leather or cotton- I keep seeing synthetic ones around.
Finally, practice all of this ahead of time. Make sure it works. Time how long the fuel takes to ignite satisfactorily. Time how long your fuel will burn. Use a stopwatch. You don't want it going out to soon or taking forever to get lit. Check the handles of the bowl to see how hot they actually get.
Take the wind into account- if it's going to be in the wind it will change things. Keep the fire small so that the wind won't blow flames onto the person/people holding the bowl.
It's not a bad idea to keep a couple of buckets of water discreetly to the side and a couple of people ASSIGNED to use them if it becomes necessary.
(If you want to get fancier, I have IMed you my email address.)
posted by small_ruminant at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also, the wires crisscrossing over the top are going to make transferring the fuel into the bonfire tricky or impossible. He was thinking it would look more ceremonial to use a torch to transfer the flame from the ceremonial bowl to the firepit.
(I am guessing a tiki torch would work, but if you want ideas for fancier ones, email me.)
posted by small_ruminant at 1:27 PM on November 24, 2014
(I am guessing a tiki torch would work, but if you want ideas for fancier ones, email me.)
posted by small_ruminant at 1:27 PM on November 24, 2014
For an alternative insulating liner material that might let you get away with just one wok instead of two nested ones, you might want to experiment with perlite that has just enough plaster of paris mixed through to make it sticky when dampened. An inch-thick layer of that applied to the inside of your wok should set quite quickly and form a lightweight fire-resistant lining.
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 AM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 AM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
That would work. Or thinset concrete mixed with Perlite.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:08 AM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by small_ruminant at 9:08 AM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Oh, nice. We have tons of thinset around from our recent tiling activities.
I'm on the 38L returning from Kamei with a 14" wok and a 20" wok. I'm hoping those are big enough... currently wondering if I should've gone bigger, but they're open on Friday if I need to go back.
posted by slidell at 6:05 PM on November 25, 2014
I'm on the 38L returning from Kamei with a 14" wok and a 20" wok. I'm hoping those are big enough... currently wondering if I should've gone bigger, but they're open on Friday if I need to go back.
posted by slidell at 6:05 PM on November 25, 2014
(Personally, I think bigger is usually better for ceremonial purposes.)
posted by small_ruminant at 9:53 PM on November 25, 2014
posted by small_ruminant at 9:53 PM on November 25, 2014
How big do they go? Because I'm not sure this is the effect you're after.
posted by flabdablet at 10:15 PM on November 25, 2014
posted by flabdablet at 10:15 PM on November 25, 2014
It probably depends on how big the rest of your ceremony props are. Also, if you're 4'10" you probably don't want a 4' fire bowl.
posted by small_ruminant at 11:27 PM on November 25, 2014
posted by small_ruminant at 11:27 PM on November 25, 2014
Response by poster: I will test the small ones over Thanksgiving and report back. My thought was that I wanted the fire to be visible over the rim of the bowl without having to build a big fire. And yeah, that we're trying to be as staid as one can be while also adding a bowl of fire to one's wedding ceremony.
posted by slidell at 12:09 PM on November 26, 2014
posted by slidell at 12:09 PM on November 26, 2014
I wanted the fire to be visible over the rim of the bowl without having to build a big fire.
A little campfire-style teepee of sticks is always going to be taller than the rim of a wok it sits in, and you'll have no trouble making the flames go higher than that.
Main reason I think you should go for a really big wok is to let you make a fire with enough fuel in it to stay burning for as long as it needs to, without requiring your fire transport handlers to put their hands so close to it that long heavy gloves won't be enough to keep them comfortable.
If the big wok would be too deep, you could always make its perlite+plaster firebed thicker on the bottom. The main advantage of free-form self-supporting insulation over rockwool between nested woks is that you could sculpt the interior of your mobile mini-fire-pit to whatever shape works best.
For example, a depression in the middle with steep but shallow sides would let you make a stable teepee fire that's pretty much guaranteed to collapse inward as it burns, even while being joggled as it's carried. You could also engineer a chute into the firebed to make sure the burning sticks and embers your handlers eventually dump onto the main firepit will all go where they're supposed to.
posted by flabdablet at 7:53 PM on November 26, 2014
A little campfire-style teepee of sticks is always going to be taller than the rim of a wok it sits in, and you'll have no trouble making the flames go higher than that.
Main reason I think you should go for a really big wok is to let you make a fire with enough fuel in it to stay burning for as long as it needs to, without requiring your fire transport handlers to put their hands so close to it that long heavy gloves won't be enough to keep them comfortable.
If the big wok would be too deep, you could always make its perlite+plaster firebed thicker on the bottom. The main advantage of free-form self-supporting insulation over rockwool between nested woks is that you could sculpt the interior of your mobile mini-fire-pit to whatever shape works best.
For example, a depression in the middle with steep but shallow sides would let you make a stable teepee fire that's pretty much guaranteed to collapse inward as it burns, even while being joggled as it's carried. You could also engineer a chute into the firebed to make sure the burning sticks and embers your handlers eventually dump onto the main firepit will all go where they're supposed to.
posted by flabdablet at 7:53 PM on November 26, 2014
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You could have a large dish or bowl of some kind with a small mound of kevlar in the middle - perhaps built into some kind of nice frame that holds it there? Then when the time is right, drop a bit of fuel onto the kevlar, light it up, and you're on your way.
posted by twirlypen at 3:30 AM on November 24, 2014