How can I give up on this business pursuit?
November 20, 2014 3:03 PM   Subscribe

I met a visual artist two years ago whose work is very, very important to me. I set up a meeting with him because I work in the arts and my skills are complimentary to his. We planned to do a project together, so we spent a lovely day meeting and doing a bit of work together. But he immediately stopped communicating with me as soon as we parted ways.

We are both fairly, although not commercially, successful in our respective fields, and roughly the same age (mid 30's). We're both attached - me married, he has a S/O whom I also met (this may be important later). I'm a huge admirer of this artist's work so I was pretty nervous. He was very enthusiastic about everything pertaining to us working together, and was treating me like some sort of angel who was swooping in to do this awesome project with him. He spoke at length about the future, took lots of pictures and called our meeting "fate". It was over the top, but charming. I couldn't believe how I had weaselled my way into this situation. But after all that talk about the future, I just never heard back.

He suffers from mental health issues and I've pieced together that he has since gone through a tough time. Nevertheless, I still sent him roughly three very specific follow up emails, spaced several months apart. They were professional but breezy in tone, never getting personal. I heard nothing at all back. I hate chasing people and never do it, but this felt like it was worth pursuing. I also really wanted the chance for my spouse to meet with him since he is an academic who is personally interested in his work.

After so much time wondering what had gone wrong, I was beginning to feel straight up bad about myself (whether or not I had been too nervous and lame?) and professionally (maybe he just thinks I suck). Other projects were beginning to lose their appeal, but I had to keep chipping away and making a living. I was starting to let go of this dream. But two years later I ran into him! I said hi. And he actually offered me some answers, unprompted. He told me he liked the work I had put into our project but said, essentially, that he'd lost confidence in himself to make it worthwhile. He also alluded to my "follow-through" being impressive and joked that he could never get a project like that off the ground. I simply said, "I understand." We talked for a good twenty minutes or so about other things, friendly small talk, but this time he was much more down to earth and actually somewhat nervous. He remembered very specific details about our first meeting and warmly introduced me to some other people who came by to say hello. But when we were alone again, either he was feeling cornered or he was anxious about the whole thing or I was setting a nervous tone perhaps... but neither of us were maintaining eye contact very much. I distinctly remember wishing I could just be bolder in that situation, that I must be the one creating a strange vibe because I'm too aloof, almost "too cool" with people I want to get to know and work with, but I just couldn't do it. I felt like I was blowing my chance at making a good second impression. Still, he didn't find a reason to leave the conversation so I just stuck around and continued making chit chat. He asked me if my husband was there, and I said he was, and a few minutes later the two of them also met. Things were easier then. I thought this whole thing was a "case-closed" deal at the time, but many months later I'm thinking about it more than ever.

Considering my anxiety over this ordeal I'm left wondering a few things:

1. In the future how can I be better at going about a friendly professional connection like this? I want to pursue work with people whose stuff I admire but am now feeling discouraged. Maybe the dynamics were off, or the timing... or maybe it's my people skills.

2. Am I in denial about what is actually just a talent crush I might have on him? Is that what this is? Am I confusing respect with attraction? I feel like a cheesy, pathetic character in a Woody Allen movie. Should I jump ship, for my own good? I basically already have - I haven't followed up this time, and it's been months. But I don't really want to.

3. For now, how can I overcome my obsession with this failed friendship and project and move on with my life? How can I give it less weight? It's affecting the way I should appreciate the things I do have in life. If you have any guesses as to what on earth may have happened here, please enlighten me! Thanks a lot.
posted by BestCoaster to Human Relations (14 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: It sounds like he lacks the ability to execute on his part of this idea for personal reasons (his lost confidence and maybe a bunch of other stuff he didn't share with you) and you're taking this personally when you have no reason to. You followed through, and for whatever reason, he's unable to. It happens. Even when there's a good idea in the mix.

I also think that #2 is a factor. You know how people say that you should never try to meet your heroes? This is part of the reason why. You admire his immense talent and you've built him up in your head. His actual self ended up being a bit disappointing aside from his getting excited when in the fun, brainstorming part of the project. Him being disappointing is not because of you. This is just who he is: a talented fellow who is easily excitable, but who lacks some amount of discipline and follow-through. The fact that he didn't even do you the courtesy of answering emails indicates that he may have some bigger personal issues he's dealing with or, maybe he just lacks professionalism. Regardless, these things are also not about you.

This isn't necessarily a failed friendship, just a failed project. Unless you struggle with all friendships and professional interactions, I wouldn't assume it was your people skills. Some things just don't click. That's fine. You may try to immunize yourself against future disappointments by reminding yourself that great talent does not make a great person. Talented people can be awkward, unpleasant, disorganized, offensive, etc, and still be talented. The good news is that some people with great talent are also great people who are great collaborators. Go find some of them! You're sure to find some more duds, but don't take them being duds personally.
posted by quince at 3:39 PM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]


Best answer: I don't think any of us can say what happened, it really could have been anything. Since that's the case, you might as well take what he said at face value - he experienced some kind of mental health episode that led to him pulling back. You'd met once? It sounds like there were inordinately high expectations, maybe on both sides. Maybe that and the initial over-the-top flattery made it harder for him to come down to earth and be straight with you. It does sound like he was probably sincerely interested in working with you and didn't mean to lead you on, and is now embarrassed about his over-promise.

Only you can really comment on the attraction bit. Re "jumping ship" - do you mean, letting go of this? In that case, yes, I think let it go. The timing didn't work in your favour and it sounds like the impetus is gone, he's probably doing other things now. I think if you do meet again, relaxed expectations would make it easier to communicate more freely.

I think it might be a good idea, for now at least, to continue to do what you're doing on your own, and to take advantage of opportunities for collaboration that readily present themselves, with people you know and feel comfortable around, rather than chasing people you admire with whom you don't already have a relationship.
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:42 PM on November 20, 2014 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I have been the artist (Apologies to a certain now moderately successful NY Times ranked writer). Kinda. I'm a software developer, at least one web project back in the 2000 era fell apart because I was depressed and distracted.
  1. Don't be afraid to call up and say "hey, what's up?". Several times. Yes, the dynamics were off, but that doesn't mean it's you, and even if it is you that may just mean that it's that there's some aspect of the collaboration that the other party is having trouble communicating with you, and that could very well be them. When I was the artist, I was in a weird-ass space in my life, dropped the ball on a number of things, all sorts of stuff was screwed up.
  2. If you don't want to, don't. Projects and ideas have a lifespan, sometimes that lifespan is dictated by the larger culture, sometimes by the respective perspectives and attitudes of the participants. This one may have passed its window.
  3. It's not you. Or even if it is you, it's a combination of you and someone else, and there are many many other people with whom you will not have this interaction. Find other people to collaborate with. As one wag once observed, even if that person is one in a million, that means there's over six thousand of them in the world, and 18 in the greater Los Angeles area alone.

posted by straw at 3:42 PM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]


He suffers from mental health issues

he'd lost confidence in himself to make it worthwhile

This is not about you.

You don't get to make him do your project. There is no set of words, no manipulation you should have tried. This thing, for his own reasons, did not spark the momentum to pursue and complete. That is his choice. You need to respect it, and not make it about yourself.

Was this supposed to be a friendship, or was it supposed to be business? You use both words as if they mean the same thing. If it's friendship, you have to take him as he is, and you'll need to not be a source of anxiety-causing pressure in his life. If it's business, you need to recognize that there's no product here for you to make money off of and you can't squeeze it out of him.

If you want to know what happened, you should ask him instead of playing games with him. You seem at least partially convinced the problem is some sort of romantic or sexual attraction, and if that's the case for you then you probably need to respect the relationship he's in and stop scrutinizing for signs and portents (people can tell when you're doing that to them) or step away from the situation until it goes away.

Depressed people (and other kinds of mentally ill people) sometimes just don't have a lot of energy for other people, especially people who have agendas or want something. I'm sure he likes you just fine when he runs into you, but doesn't have the day-to-day social rations to keep it up.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:48 PM on November 20, 2014 [13 favorites]


I know some artists/people who make things but aren't artists with whom I would never collaborate on anything, because I know them well enough to know that they wouldn't follow through. One of them cancels plans constantly, but is more than happy to hang out if the stars align and I catch him on a good day. I don't take it personally because he doesn't owe me anything, not his time nor his energy (nor his work!).

You don't really know this guy well enough to know whether he actually wants to work on something with you, and for him to necessarily feel comfortable telling you that he doesn't want to (if that's the case). He might really want to, but he just doesn't have the spoons*. (If you haven't read about the Spoons Theory, please do so).

If you want to have some kind of friendship with this guy, please forget about the project and give him a little space and a lot less pressure. He doesn't owe you anything, not his time nor his energy nor his work.

*I have mostly seen this refer to physical limitations, like chronic pain, but I think that maybe it also applies to mental illness? Apologies if that's not the case.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:08 PM on November 20, 2014


He's dealing with mental illness.

It really is no more complicated than that. This is ENTIRELY not about you in any way. He can't cope.

Stop taking it personally. Really.
posted by jbenben at 4:17 PM on November 20, 2014


People I am very close to work in a creative industry full of all kinds of talented people so I see this stuff a lot. This story you told here is pretty standard.

People get crushes on artists all the time, usually because they conflate the art and the person, but sometimes because artists do have unusual personal charisma as well. Don't feel bad, but do understand that this is pretty common.

And artists abandon/turn down projects ALL the time, even projects that they're to some degree genuinely interested in, for a million different reasons ranging from lack of motivation to lack of time to lack of mental bandwidth to contractual obligations elsewhere...

You just need to get a grip on yourself. You can enjoy the guy's art without erroneously believing yourself to have a special relationship with him. And you can understand that professionals have their own complicated calculus to make about how to prioritize their time and energy, and that it isn't a reflection on you that he had other stuff going on - whether it was mental health issues or just a not-high-enough level of motivation - that made your project not the right thing for him to take on.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:19 PM on November 20, 2014


Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your answers so far. I've been realizing that, to Lyn Never's point, I often confuse new friendship with new business, probably because these projects are usually sustainable but not all that profitable. So what I'm really after is a positive experience making things with other people. Hence the high expectations. What many of you are saying is really helpful... I can't expect the energy/agenda/enthusiasm of a collaborator to be aligned with mine.
posted by BestCoaster at 4:19 PM on November 20, 2014


Mentions of mental health issues, plus the "over the top" description, plus a much less energetic vibe afterward, would lead me to at least consider that his behavior in the first meeting may have been due to mania or hypomania. I'm certainly not trying to diagnose a stranger over the internet, and there's no reason for you to need a diagnosis, but it might be helpful to know that sometimes seeming enthusiasm may be coming from an unhealthy place, too.
posted by jaguar at 4:34 PM on November 20, 2014 [1 favorite]


Best answer: re: #1: I work on movies, where you have to collaborate with a million people. My rule is to give up on anyone, immediately, for any reason.

I'm kidding, but only a little bit. If they don't return calls or emails, I move on. If they're late or don't show up for meetings, I move on. If they aren't dedicated to the project or need to be handheld to do anything whatsoever, I move on. In my experience there is a 100% chance that anyone who does one of these things once will not work out and will be a huge burden to the project, and the best thing to do is let them go immediately and get someone who wants to be there. This can be hard when its a "dream" person in terms of skillset, but it needs to be done.

It's a lot like dating: It's very hard to find someone good, and you'll meet a lot of flakes and disappointments along the way. "Why" doesn't really matter, because if they don't want to be there there is no way to make them. You just have to move on.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:07 PM on November 20, 2014 [13 favorites]


I'm not really sure what a "talent crush" is, but I too picked up on some kind of sexual / romantic overtones in your text. This is kind of a stretch, but maybe the fellow has had bad experiences with "talent crushes" in the past. Like maybe he's fallen into temptation (and perhaps screwed up his life) enough times that he's become wary when he meets someone like you. Not that you're a bad person. In a way, I'm positing that perhaps he's dealing with a form of sex addiction. And one issue sex addicts face is that sometimes the people they like the most are also a major danger to them.

I know I'm making a lot of assumptions based on the "feeling" I got from your words. But stuff like him asking if your husband was around, and how things were easier after they met, or you too not being able to maintain eye contact. I feel like there's something goin' on there.

That said, a different line of reasoning: no matter how magical the project may have seemed when you two talked it over, sometimes creative people just don't want to work with anyone else.

Finally: what is your husbands take on all of this?
posted by doctor tough love at 6:33 PM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]


it didn't happen. that makes it the same as the person you gave your card to that didn't call back.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:47 PM on November 20, 2014


Response by poster: Thanks everyone. A lot of this is making sense. I hadn't contacted the artist in about a year and a half, and never expected nor asked for an explanation. So for a long time now it's just been about figuring out a way to let go of it mentally, on my own (until this, asking all of you for tips on how to do so). I've read about people discussing abandoned work as being "ghosts" that haunt them. This is like that. So it'll just pass with time I guess.

To answer doctor tough love's question, my husband was very supportive and encouraging, but has always maintained that these things can't be rushed. I just wasn't sure if I was in denial about what my fascination with him really is, and thought that maybe I was creating a very stressful atmosphere in person involuntarily. You may be right, the guy may just be steering clear of this type of thing just in case.
posted by BestCoaster at 10:37 AM on November 21, 2014


Thanks for taking the time to answer!

I really don't know if my 'sex addict theory' has any reality to it, but hearing that your husband is supportive makes me think that you and he have a pretty solid relationship, and that might have made the artist fellow mellow out a bit. Ie, a woman with a good marriage is less likely to want to jump into an affair.

And I was thinking about it from artist fellow's POV. It's gotta be tough to "walk the line" all the time. I'm wondering if it leads to a kind of approach-avoidance behavior, where he might be friendly and happy to see you - up until the point where he thinks "uh-oh!" and does a hasty back-track.

Hell, I dunno. But my guess is that the artist fellow is pretty much a stand-up kinda guy. And to be clear, I am not implying that you're sexually attracted to him; I think you genuinely admire the man's work. But from his POV, he can't tell for sure.
posted by doctor tough love at 2:10 PM on November 21, 2014


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