How to act around an abusive relative?
November 19, 2014 3:34 PM   Subscribe

My grandfather, who has a history of being physically abusive, has become increasingly emotionally abusive in the past couple of years and I don't know how to handle it.

I'm mid-20's and still live at home for various reasons. Moving out isn't an option for probably another 1-2 years while I get myself out of debt.

Growing up, my mother was neglectful, her long term boyfriend emotionally abusive, my father absent and I lived in a "party house." Twice or so a year my brother and I would stay with my grandparents. My grandmother would occasionally spank us or wash our mouths out with soap. I remember my grandfather threatening us with his belt and my brother has since told me he used it on him a few times.

Fast-forward to today I have a distant, cautious relationship with my mother (she's more like an occasional friend), a great one with my grandmother who is the sweetest woman I know, and a volatile, intermittent one with my grandfather. He's a rageaholic. There are notes all over the house saying "Keep door closed!" "If you can't shut the freezer behind you then don't open it!" or "Do not open the windows!" He likes to find problems in his life and our lives and interrogate us with questions to get to the bottom of it. The thing is, the questions often come out of nowhere and are relentless because he's likely been letting his disappointment fester for weeks or months. So you get caught off guard and locked into a never-ending "discussion" which really amounts to him belittling you and giving you unsolicited "advice." Nobody in my family likes these conversations, but if you show even the slightest indication that you are bothered by what he is saying, he quickly gets vicious and often yells, sometimes screaming. He starts saying things like, "Why don't you use your head? Why are you so stupid? You'll all have a party when I'm dead because I'm the bad guy."

As a milder example I recently interviewed for a new job. The guy said he thought we had a very good interview, he just wanted to check my references and he would get back to me. He did in a few days and had me come in to set up a drug test. The test took place on Friday and would take a couple business days to clear, so he said he would call me around Wednesday with a job offer if the results were good. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday my grandfather asked me if I had heard back yet. Each time I said no, I had to wait for the results of my drug test. Finally on Wednesday he said to me, "You really should call him. I used to interview people all the time and if they called me first I knew I wanted to hire that guy." Useful advice, but this went on for about 10 minutes and I just smiled and nodded.

I had made up my mind before then to call on Thursday morning if I hadn't heard back yet. I didn't feel the need to explain myself to my grandfather, though. I had specifically asked the guy if I should call him if I didn't hear back in a couple of days and he said no, he would definitely get in touch with me. So while taking the initiative to call is usually something I do anyway, I knew I didn't need to this time because things had gone so well.

Wednesday night my grandfather approached me and asked if I had called yet. I sighed and said no, and visibly expressed annoyance. He immediately got defensive, shouting, "You all think I'm stupid! I did interviews, I know this stuff! Well if you don't get the job because you didn't call then I don't know what to tell you." I said nothing, got up and walked out of the room. My grandfather ended up verbally attacking my brother later that night about something else, reducing him to tears, as is often the case.

The interviewer called me the next morning and offered me the job. My grandfather and I haven't spoken since the argument (it's been about a week). I don't know how to conduct myself around someone who has a history of physical abuse and is now emotionally abusive. He makes me sick to my stomach, but I'm stuck living with him for the time being. I'm grateful for having a roof over my head and food in my stomach, but I don't feel like providing that gives him the right to treat everyone in the house like pieces of garbage he can take his anger out on whenever he feels like it. My grandmother has threatened to leave him many times but never will.

I'm asking for advice from anyone who is or has been in a similar situation. It's painful to smile and nod when he decides to lecture me, but I feel like it is the best strategy. That often leaves him unsatisfied, though, and then he resorts to yelling. If you don't give him the answers he wants, his anger escalates. I don't know what else to do.
posted by blackzinfandel to Human Relations (20 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
You now have a job. Do whatever you have to do to get out of there. As long as he's supporting you and you have no place to call your own, you are at his mercy. He can throw you out on your ear at any minute.

I'd rather live in a cardboard box than live near someone who would yell and lecture me like that.

See if you can rent a room somewhere.

If you think you can get away with it, simply say, "I am not here to take your abuse. I won't stand here and listen any longer." Then walk away.

Keep doing it.

But frankly, I think too much of myself to allow anyone to bully me like that.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]


I think smiling and nodding, learning to tune him out, and leaving when you can are all you've got until you can move, unless you want to risk openly challenging him. When will you be able to move?

edit: these are the adaptive strategies people use around abusive people, not suggestions. move.
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]


Best answer: Moving out isn't an option for probably another 1-2 years while I get myself out of debt.

I know you feel like this debt is a really big deal thing, but debt is not something that you should be prioritizing over your personal well-being. There is literally no way to live with an abuser and be safe. That's why it's abuse. If there was a way to make it better, so many of us would have had lives that turned out differently. But there's not. You need to be elsewhere as soon as humanly possible. Even if he's older now, the fact that he has a history of physical abuse and his anger is escalating means that you need to treat this like your physical safety is at risk if you stay there. The fact that it isn't financially ideal to leave is a pity, but you will be okay.
posted by Sequence at 3:53 PM on November 19, 2014 [44 favorites]


I know you feel like this debt is a really big deal thing, but debt is not something that you should be prioritizing over your personal well-being.

No kidding. Just get out. Even if you stay in debt for 30 more years because of it, it will be worth it.

(I think you'll pay it off just fine, by the way- you don't know how much energy abuse saps from your income-producing jobs til you get away it. Heck, you could probably work three jobs and still have more energy than you do now, though if you're like me, you'll have a long time of being exhausted while your adrenals refill or whatever it is that they do once you're away from stress.)
posted by small_ruminant at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2014 [13 favorites]


congratulations on your new job!

I agree with those that suggested prioritizing your move. Find a cheap room to rent. If your brother has a job maybe you guys can figure out how to do it together.

I mean, there's otherwise nothing you CAN do. You're in his house. He is a nutbar and as long as you are living in his home, not only does he have this very real power over you, but this sort of behavior affects your own mental state in sometimes unpredictable ways as well.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:09 PM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]


How old is your brother? Can you get a place together? Mid-twenties is too old to be living in a dysfunctional family situation like this.

Your grandfather reminds me of my dad. My dad was a lecturer. His ego was fragile so you had to placate him.

Grandfather sounds like a jerk but I can also see where he may be looking out for you in his own bad way. His anxieties and insecurities are surfacing and he doesn't know what to do with them. The only thing he knows how to do is yell and lecture. He might be too anxious, too much of a bully, and too immature to relate to you as an adult with boundaries. He sees you as his responsibility, his child (or grandchild) and doesn't know how to stop treating you like a little kid.

If this is your maternal grandfather he may be improving with age. It sounds like your parents had a lot of problems with being parents and they were probably poorly parented themselves. I'm not saying his behavior is healthy but try not too be too angry. Try to understand the person you're dealing with and try to see him as more human. By staying angry at him and hating him, you're enmeshing yourself with him, and allowing him to make you unhappy. Also, don't occupy yourself with whether or not grandmother leaves him or how could she stay with him or any of that. Concern yourself with how you are going to become more independent and how you can break away from this unhealthy dynamic.

It's obnoxious to leave these kinds of notes around the house, but don't read too much into the notes. It's his house and he can leave notes. And, it's not right that they washed your mouth out with soap or spanked you or belted your brother a few times, but it sounds like you're looking back in the past and trying to come up with more evidence as to why you should hate him. This does no good. You will only make yourself more miserable.

If you want to go on living with him I would definitely not sigh or roll your eyes or show disrespect, this only enrages people like this. Try to stay strong and muster the courage to say something like, "thank you grandpa for looking out for me, but…"

Also, try not to share things that are going to cause him anxiety. He doesn't have to know that you took a drug test or had a job interview. Keep it to yourself if you think he's going to nag and berate.

Keep a low radar and try not to form too much hate or too many grievances. Good luck.
posted by Fairchild at 4:12 PM on November 19, 2014 [9 favorites]


If you choose to live in his house to get out of debt, then you'll have to endure this. It sounds like he'd respond better to you placating him in a believable way instead of arguing with him. He has a must-be-right-at-all-costs vibe and you being oppositional and arguing is just wasted time and energy and it probably serves to escalate things. You are not going to change this man's ideas about the world, so don't poke him with a stick and fuel the rage. Placate, lie, whatever. For example, I would have lied to him about calling the job and told him it was good advice to be seen as a go-getter. And, I would have told him that the hiring manager was impressed and told me to call back Thursday morning to discuss further. Of course, I would not have actually done these things. Only made AngryGrandpa believe that I had.

That said, I think that this is a very bad way to live your life. Debt is not more important than you being in a healthy and happy environment, especially given your family history. You have a new job (congrats!) - stay out of the line of fire and make an aggressive plan to save and get out ASAP.
posted by quince at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]


Best answer: Getting out isn't always easy. I respect that you're saying it isn't an option for now. It might be worth working out a concrete financial plan in terms of how long it will take to be able to afford your own place, devise a savings schedule, etc so you have something to work towards which might give you a feeling of "light at the end of the tunnel". It might not take as long as you think. "Now" might not be feasible, but it might not take as long as 1-2 years - can you see if it would be possible to make it closer to 6 months if you save really well due to your new job?

As you are asking for help with the situation you're in now, I would suggest contacting your local domestic abuse helpline/organisation. It is domestic violence even if he has not been physically abusive to you - emotional abuse is still very destructive. Reach out for some support and advice on how to cope with what you're going through.

On a day to day level, practice being assertive and immediately ending any conversation which makes you feel uncomfortable or unhappy. Something like "I hear your opinion but I am not discussing this any further." then leave the room, or the house if necessary. Say it to him every single time he starts so he knows you will not engage and no matter what he says he will only ever get one reaction from you. Make sure you have at least one safe place, maybe with a friend, that you can go to at a moment's notice if you ever feel in any danger. Take care of yourself.
posted by billiebee at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]


Best answer: Very tough situation, I am so sorry. I had a grandmother like this, and eventually I just cut off all contact with her. My mom told me I'd regret it if she died before I mended fences, but actually I never did feel any regret. I was not sorry when she died, and I don't miss her a bit now.

He sounds very damaged, and perhaps a bit demented too, but the fact is that toward you he is really toxic. I too would prioritize moving out, and as soon as you are out the door my sincere recommendation is not ever to have contact with him again. While in his home, I'd do just what you are doing, which is to say acting polite and avoiding him to the maximum extent possible. If he questions/nags you, I'm sorry to say I'd lie and tell him you did whatever he said you should, just to get him off your back.
posted by bearwife at 4:31 PM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]


Best answer: Don't tell him things about your life. He doesn't need to know any detail at all.
posted by k8t at 5:18 PM on November 19, 2014 [24 favorites]


Get out as soon as possible. Until then share almost nothing about yourself, your job or your life. Stick to vague general statements and lie a lot. Did you call? yes! Where are you going? Out/library. This man gets as little of you as you can. This may mean keeping things from the rest of your family. That's the price you pay for living there.
posted by saradarlin at 6:15 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: I appreciate all of the advice. I think you're all right that my main focus is to become financially independent as fast as I possibly can. However, it is very difficult for me to swallow my pride and lie or placate him, as some have advised, because I've had to do it so many times in my life. Both with him and others, growing up gay. I've always strove to be true to myself, no matter how painful that can be in the short-term because in the long-term it is how I feel about myself that really matters.

A few months ago my grandfather came up to me and told me he would like me to stop calling myself an atheist, because it will get me nothing in life and people will only look down on me because of it. (Note that I rarely even bring it up unless I'm speaking with a fellow atheist, and I very occasionally link to articles on Facebook about atheism/humanism that I find interesting) He said people would think, "How was he raised if he's an atheist? That poor kid" and asked that I didn't talk about it, for his sake. He told me how important his faith was to him, and he didn't understand what atheism was - a belief in the devil, or what? He said my being an atheist was an insult to him. He said I could be Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, whatever.. as long as it wasn't atheist. I told him I wasn't going to lie about who I was or what I believed because of what other people thought. I said I respected his religion and I'm glad he finds it comforting. That conversation hurt me immensely, because again I had to basically smile and nod while he got to crap all over my beliefs while even admitting he didn't know what an atheist really was.

Again, thank you all for the advice. It means a lot to me and I will re-focus on getting myself out rather than trying to adapt to an abuser.
posted by blackzinfandel at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]


Your grandfather sounds like an asshole. Act accordingly.
posted by oceanjesse at 7:37 PM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]


Best answer: I'm so sorry you are going through this. While you're here, do you have friends or places that you can go and be at? Maybe a local volunteer group? Better to spend your mental energy doing things you care about than dodging an abusive person, right? Even just finding a Humanist book group to go to might at least give you someplace better to be. Basically, keep as little of your self at that house as you can. Come home only when you have to, and work on your own life as much as possible. Because you can't do anything about his.

Best of luck. And congratulations on your job!
posted by emjaybee at 7:43 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]


Best answer: Your grandfather is a curmudgeon. He blusters and stomps around and makes noise and huffs and puffs and roars because he doesn't know any other way to be. He's not going to change, and I suppose he could escalate to physical abuse, but there's no reason to think he will in the material you've written here. He's most likely just going to continue making a lot of racket and crashing around like the oaf that he is.

You're a sensitive soul who takes things to heart (read: personally) more than you should, probably. What you have to get into your own head is that he's actually NOT attacking you or disappointed in you or angry with you at all - he's just being the way he is because he gets by with it and it lets out the gas he's full of. How does your grandmother handle it on a day-to-day basis? Does she just walk away and ignore him? Or does she yell back at him or tell him, in no uncertain terms, to go to his room and be quiet? You're old enough now that you don't need to be treated like a little kid, BUT you're living in his house, so that limits how far "off" you can tell him.

Since you have a little brother there who's also getting his feelings hurt, I'd say the two of you need to band together and decide that Grandpa isn't going to hurt your feelings anymore because you're simply not going to take him any more seriously than you would a loud and obnoxious stranger walking down the street. When Grandpa gets too loud, you should tell him so and make it clear that you're not getting hurt by his nonsense any more - enough's enough. It would be a good idea, as someone above said, to use the sweet grandson approach of, "I know you're just trying to give me some good advice, Grandpa, but I've really got to do this my way - hope you can understand that" and then move away - don't engage him when he roars at you again. By responding to him in this way the first time, you've shown respect to him, which is important; if you just get up and storm away without acknowledging his speech aimed directly at you, you've disrespected him and in the long run you'll regret that. If you keep your end up by speaking quietly, firmly and with respect, and you don't cave in under his blustering and noise, you'll always know you handled it the right way. That will make a big difference now - and years from now.

I'd also think about asking his advice on something you can dream up that will make him feel helpful and needed but is also something you can weasel out of if necessary. Or maybe something as simple as how high to set the lawn mower blade for a good, healthy lawn - then set it as he suggests and mow the grass. He'll be strutting around because he feels helpful and important and you'll be fine because you don't really care how high the grass is cut.

I think you'll be fine and it'll probably be okay for you to stay where you are until you get financially stable enough to afford your own place, but only if you can stop taking this man's criticism and attitude personally and just think of him as the resident curmudgeon - that is, unless you're seriously feeling in jeopardy of physical abuse OR if the emotional stuff is just too heavy (emotional can be even worse than physical abuse, I know that). Good luck.
posted by aryma at 7:57 PM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your update, but are you friends with him on facebook? If so, unfriend and block. Nothing good could possibly come of it.
posted by hasna at 9:12 PM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]


When I was in my early twenties I lived at home & there were some serious problems between my parents that spilled over & caused problems. Some really crappy behavior on my mother's part, she targeted me for her anger & held me responsible for all the things she wouldn't do (mainly housework & cooking). Things got ugly when I refused to play along. She was cheating on Dad & wanting me to keep her dirty little secrets. It was awful. What I did was stay away from home as much as I possibly could. I stayed in my room when I was home to avoid confrontations. But that created problems too. I was accused of behaving like a I lived in a rooming house, not being a full member of the family. It was all passive-aggressive pressure to conform & accept really bad behavior from adults who'd been married 40+ years. I refused to get in the middle of my parent's marriage. Other siblings DID allow themselves to become embroiled in their mess, I don't know how they live with that but to each their own. My conscience is clear anyway.

I ended up moving out a few months after things started going downhill. I scraped, scrounged, begged & borrowed to get into a place of my own (w/a roommate of course, couldn't afford my own apt. then). My relationship with my parents shifted to a very good place the second I moved out. They couldn't bully me or put me in the middle of their drama anymore & they knew it.

I recommend you concentrate on moving as soon as you can. You'll be amazed at how wonderful life is as a broke person living in a hovel without your super grumpy grandfather making your life miserable. You may even like him after you move out; I can almost guarantee he won't pull his Mr. Mean Guy crap on you then. He'll probably gain respect for you too & treat you much better. Now go get a second job, you'll be able to save faster to move out, be away from home more, too. And congrats on getting the job you were waiting for!
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 6:43 AM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Yeah, nthing second job. A fun one, like bartender, waiter or barrista. I had two jobs for YEARS to be independent and I never regretted it. Two jobs gives you twice the opportunity NOT to be in that house and two jobs lets you make and save more money and to afford a place of your own.

If you can get into a house-share with a nice group of folks, so much the better.

I lived in Arizona and in school we got desert survival skills. When stranded in the desert you have two choices:

1. Get rescued
2. Figure out how to survive in the environment

The people who concentrated on getting rescued lived. People who tried to survive in the environment were putting their energies in the wrong place and often did not live.

It's funny to me how apt that is for nearly all of life's ugly situations.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:47 AM on November 20, 2014 [6 favorites]


I'm with the focus on getting out as soon as you can train of thought, but as to how to live with him watch your Grandmother. Does she seem to have a handle on how to deal with Grandpa after all these years? Watch what she does use her techniques. If you think you can maybe talk to her about it, phrasing the question tactfully in case it gets back to him. It's great to want to tell the truth & be truthful, but there is a time & a place for it. Getting along with a grumpy old man you need to live with for a while is not the time or place. As the saying goes, "Pick your hill to die on."

Placate, agree, nod your head & pretend to listen, no one can change what you think in you head. If nothing else consider it a handy skill to master, you are going to be in situations all your life where stupid people with power over you say stupid shit, being able to let it slide off you when you need to & knowing when to fight are useful life skills.

In the job situation, the response I would have used was "It's all handled Granddad, thanks for the advice." Any questions just keep the answers vague, & what he wants to hear. You had it handled and his ego is stroked that he thinks you listened to him, that's all he needs to know. If you don't like lying you don't have to lie to him, you just don't have to share everything with him or people that will feed info to him.
posted by wwax at 8:10 AM on November 20, 2014 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I'm so sorry you're living in this situation. Your grandfather sounds very much like a relative of mine who I grew up with, and since being able to move out, I would live anywhere else rather than with him again.

It wasn't clear to me from your question whether you're actually living with your grandfather at the moment, or just have to spend a lot of time with him because you're living at home. I'm not going to focus on tips for moving out, just coping strategies for when you have to be around him.

I take the base approach that my relative has no right to any information about my life. I blocked him on social media, try to keep my blog separate from my real name so he can't google it, say the absolute minimum about my friends and social life, even to the rest of my family, while we are both in the same house. (Still, I guess it's possible that he's even reading this right now. Hiiiiii, relative!) You're right that it's psychologically healthy to be true to yourself, and it's really great that you've stuck to that so much. Still, I see my situation with my relative as a separate matter, one in which protecting myself takes a greater priority. I smile and nod a lot when I'm home for the holidays. I make bland, inoffensive conversation, seeking out non-controversial things to make pleasant remarks on. It's hard sometimes not to make opinionated points in conversation, and I don't always manage it. If I feel bated to reply, I remind myself, "He has no right to anything about me." He has done nice things for me in the past, and he is a member of my family, but this doesn't entitle him to intimacy with me. Some people will tell you that you should make all kinds of exceptions for people just because they're family. I think a resolution to avoid conflict — as much as you reasonably can — is about all that's warranted.

I guess I deliberately assume a different persona when I'm around him, a close-lipped and superficial one. The great thing about growing up and getting out is that that persona, which was my entire personality when I lived there, is now just a tool I can use.

When he is calm and not in an antagonistic mood, I also use the secondary tactic of asking him questions about his special areas of interest. He is very knowledgeable about some topics that I'm not, and they are far enough removed from my life that they're safe to talk about. (Say, restoring antique furniture or scuba diving.) Sometimes we have really nice conversations about these things. My relative is also older, and I think it's good for him to be treated as an expert, and good for our relationship on the whole. Is there something like this that your grandfather is interested in?

My third "tactic" is really just my great good fortune in having a partner who will take my relative on in conversation, or come and get me if I'm trapped in one of his lectures. Would it be possible for you and your brother to look out for one another like this? (That's a real question. I don't know enough about your situation to say if this is a good idea or not.)

One can't live this way all the time. This is just how I survive the odd week or so when I have to be at home.
posted by daisyk at 9:12 AM on November 20, 2014


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