Calories in, calories out
November 11, 2014 1:03 PM Subscribe
Help me figure out how to think about my calorie intake. Should I view it in terms of the net or the gross?
I'm dieting and exercising. To count calories and track exercise, I'm using a nutrition app that automatically deducts calories from your daily total depending on your exercise. For example, I've eaten a breakfast and lunch today that total 458 calories, but since I exercised, the app says my net calories are at -97.
Does that mean I get extra calories today? Should I turn this net-calorie feature off? I've been ignoring it so far and going by the gross input, rather than the net. It seems counterproductive to eat more because you're exercising, when you're exercising to lose weight. My goal is 1300 calories a day, which is reasonable but close to low, so I want to make sure I do get enough.
I'm dieting and exercising. To count calories and track exercise, I'm using a nutrition app that automatically deducts calories from your daily total depending on your exercise. For example, I've eaten a breakfast and lunch today that total 458 calories, but since I exercised, the app says my net calories are at -97.
Does that mean I get extra calories today? Should I turn this net-calorie feature off? I've been ignoring it so far and going by the gross input, rather than the net. It seems counterproductive to eat more because you're exercising, when you're exercising to lose weight. My goal is 1300 calories a day, which is reasonable but close to low, so I want to make sure I do get enough.
When I was successfully dieting, I did not count the calories of my exercise--only of my intake. The reason I chose to do it this way is that my base metabolic rate as calculated by mass, height and activity level has never seemed accurate to me. It seemed likely to me that an exercise calorie burned count calculated the same way would also be inaccurate.
As an aside, on some days when I was lifting heavy I would eat a whole lot more, especially protein and carbs depending on time of day and which workout I was doing. Everyone is different.
posted by infinitewindow at 1:16 PM on November 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
As an aside, on some days when I was lifting heavy I would eat a whole lot more, especially protein and carbs depending on time of day and which workout I was doing. Everyone is different.
posted by infinitewindow at 1:16 PM on November 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
To lose weight, you want to keep your net calories in the negative. Each person has a resting metabolic rate that burns a certain amount of calories just by being alive. Obviously you burn more through daily activities, and even more (and faster) by exercising.
If the app is programmed correctly, it should take all of this into account. It starts with a good estimate of baseline calorie burning (based on height, weight, sex) plus calories burned from all the activities you log for the day. Then it takes the calorie input from your food logged and does basic subtraction. Negative calories means losing weight (your body burns fat to make up the difference from negative to zero). Positive means gaining weight, or at least not losing.
It sounds like your app counts food calories and subtracts calories burned through exercise only (no baseline rate) - otherwise you'd be at a much larger negative number than -97 with only 458 calories in. If this is a correct assessment of the app, you should always strive to keep your calories in the 1300 range, or whatever goal you've set for yourself. Eating more means you take in more than your baseline burn, and eating too few puts your body into survival mode and screws with your metabolism making it even harder to lose weight. So yes, exercising does, in fact, give you extra calories to eat for the day, if you are keeping to your 1300 goal.
posted by trivia genius at 1:17 PM on November 11, 2014
If the app is programmed correctly, it should take all of this into account. It starts with a good estimate of baseline calorie burning (based on height, weight, sex) plus calories burned from all the activities you log for the day. Then it takes the calorie input from your food logged and does basic subtraction. Negative calories means losing weight (your body burns fat to make up the difference from negative to zero). Positive means gaining weight, or at least not losing.
It sounds like your app counts food calories and subtracts calories burned through exercise only (no baseline rate) - otherwise you'd be at a much larger negative number than -97 with only 458 calories in. If this is a correct assessment of the app, you should always strive to keep your calories in the 1300 range, or whatever goal you've set for yourself. Eating more means you take in more than your baseline burn, and eating too few puts your body into survival mode and screws with your metabolism making it even harder to lose weight. So yes, exercising does, in fact, give you extra calories to eat for the day, if you are keeping to your 1300 goal.
posted by trivia genius at 1:17 PM on November 11, 2014
The advice I've always seen was to not even bother entering your workout info. It's inaccurate and there's really no point. Set a daily calorie goal for yourself and meet it, that's all you gotta do.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:17 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:17 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I use MyFitnessPal for tracking all this stuff and the model they use has a few things built in
1. what you get to eat per day to maintain or lose weight
2. rough estimates of calories lost via exercise (these are inexact and also have to do with your age/weight which not all exercise trackers take into account)
3. a running total of the two together
So if I get 1600 calories per day to maintain my weight (I am a small person) and I do 400 calories worth of exercise, I get to eat 2000 calories per day total. Since 1300 calories is low, you should actually aim for 1300 net calories since undereating is not particularly good for you and there is an argument that your body's metabolism goes screwy if you're not eating enough to maintain your basic metabolic rate.
I am not a doctor. My body is a machine (not everyone's is) and tracking calories works for me and this is the math of that tracking that works for me. If you're concerned because you're not seeing results, it's worth taking it up with your doctor.
posted by jessamyn at 1:19 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
1. what you get to eat per day to maintain or lose weight
2. rough estimates of calories lost via exercise (these are inexact and also have to do with your age/weight which not all exercise trackers take into account)
3. a running total of the two together
So if I get 1600 calories per day to maintain my weight (I am a small person) and I do 400 calories worth of exercise, I get to eat 2000 calories per day total. Since 1300 calories is low, you should actually aim for 1300 net calories since undereating is not particularly good for you and there is an argument that your body's metabolism goes screwy if you're not eating enough to maintain your basic metabolic rate.
I am not a doctor. My body is a machine (not everyone's is) and tracking calories works for me and this is the math of that tracking that works for me. If you're concerned because you're not seeing results, it's worth taking it up with your doctor.
posted by jessamyn at 1:19 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, guys. I think I need a more comprehensive app. I'll try the one from MyFitnessPal.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2014
posted by Countess Elena at 1:28 PM on November 11, 2014
I've lost a fair amount of weight in the past year, mostly using MFP and a Fitbit. My experience is that even with a wrist tracker, the ap tends to overestimate calories burned, and if I ate back all my exercise calories in a week I would maintain rather than lose. I try and stick within the budget most of the time, and if there's a day when I burn a lot of energy exercising, I'll eat some but not all of 'em back. So if it tells me I burned 500 that day, I might eat 300 back (1600 total, in your example.) that's worked pretty well for me so far.
Depends on the kind of exercise, too. Strenuous cardio tends to kill my appetite, but I've just started lifting and it seems to be making me ravenous. It's a balance thing, everyone's different, you'll just have to follow the scale and your body and find what works for you. If you're eating them back and still losing at the rate you're aiming for, great. If you're not, adjust.
posted by Diablevert at 1:36 PM on November 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
Depends on the kind of exercise, too. Strenuous cardio tends to kill my appetite, but I've just started lifting and it seems to be making me ravenous. It's a balance thing, everyone's different, you'll just have to follow the scale and your body and find what works for you. If you're eating them back and still losing at the rate you're aiming for, great. If you're not, adjust.
posted by Diablevert at 1:36 PM on November 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think you should only concern yourself with your daily target calories.
If your diet says you want to be eating 1300 calories, which is a deficit of whatever from your daily caloric requirements, then the calories burned during exercise should just be considered bonus (metaphorical) gravy. If you've had a PARTICULARLY hard workout and are still feeling peckish after dinner but before about 7 or 8 o'clock, you MIGHT want to allow yourself a little wiggle room of say 50-100 calories just so you feel satisfied before going to bed. My recommendation is that this come in the form of a low carb protein shake with some flax seed and blueberries, if you like those things.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:15 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
If your diet says you want to be eating 1300 calories, which is a deficit of whatever from your daily caloric requirements, then the calories burned during exercise should just be considered bonus (metaphorical) gravy. If you've had a PARTICULARLY hard workout and are still feeling peckish after dinner but before about 7 or 8 o'clock, you MIGHT want to allow yourself a little wiggle room of say 50-100 calories just so you feel satisfied before going to bed. My recommendation is that this come in the form of a low carb protein shake with some flax seed and blueberries, if you like those things.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:15 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
The advice I've always seen was to not even bother entering your workout info. It's inaccurate and there's really no point.
I suspect you know this via common sense, but if you're doing anything like long distance running, I would plan to factor at least a conservative estimate of calories burned in.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:54 PM on November 11, 2014
I suspect you know this via common sense, but if you're doing anything like long distance running, I would plan to factor at least a conservative estimate of calories burned in.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:54 PM on November 11, 2014
I have used MyFitnessPal with limited success, ironically doing worst at weight loss when exercising the most, and I'm coming to the conclusion, like Diablevert, that the exercise calories burned estimates are way over inflated. (Ex: 550 calories or so for 30 minutes on Elliptical at moderate pace. YMMV, literally, but that's a lot of calories).
That said, exercise calories are not nothing, and they need to be accounted for.
Some possible compensating factors:
- set yourself as "sedentary" in the settings on MFP. This will give you a bit lower baseline.
- set your weight loss goal a bit more aggressive than you actually plan to hit. 2 lbs a week is the max, and that's what I've got mine set on. I'd be happy with 1 lb a week.
- I've also got a fitbit, and I'm learning that I need to do a reality check on all the calories that MyFitnessPal says I can have from activity recorded and from the fitbit. The other day I did a 30 minute elliptical session at the gym and did some walking as part of my daily activities (walked to a nearby business and back - total day was about 8,500 steps). It said 1,000 extra calories. Seriously? Maybe 500-600 for the whole lot. The fitbit calorie adds seem more reasonable than some of the exercise adds in the MFP database.
- that old cliche - listen to your body. Over time with dieting, you should get to noticing when your calories are in line. I'm also looking at the secondary things, like sodium/fat/carb/protein allowances, because I think the closer I'm hitting all those ratios, the more likely I'm eating in a way that will lead me to success.
- after a week or two, if you're not losing weight or inches, simply adjust a little. Make your goal to come in 100-200 calories under the allowance. But be careful, as sometimes you'll gain muscle mass as you get fitter and think you're not gaining weight (and you aren't), but you're burning off fat, which is the main objective for most of us.
posted by randomkeystrike at 3:11 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
That said, exercise calories are not nothing, and they need to be accounted for.
Some possible compensating factors:
- set yourself as "sedentary" in the settings on MFP. This will give you a bit lower baseline.
- set your weight loss goal a bit more aggressive than you actually plan to hit. 2 lbs a week is the max, and that's what I've got mine set on. I'd be happy with 1 lb a week.
- I've also got a fitbit, and I'm learning that I need to do a reality check on all the calories that MyFitnessPal says I can have from activity recorded and from the fitbit. The other day I did a 30 minute elliptical session at the gym and did some walking as part of my daily activities (walked to a nearby business and back - total day was about 8,500 steps). It said 1,000 extra calories. Seriously? Maybe 500-600 for the whole lot. The fitbit calorie adds seem more reasonable than some of the exercise adds in the MFP database.
- that old cliche - listen to your body. Over time with dieting, you should get to noticing when your calories are in line. I'm also looking at the secondary things, like sodium/fat/carb/protein allowances, because I think the closer I'm hitting all those ratios, the more likely I'm eating in a way that will lead me to success.
- after a week or two, if you're not losing weight or inches, simply adjust a little. Make your goal to come in 100-200 calories under the allowance. But be careful, as sometimes you'll gain muscle mass as you get fitter and think you're not gaining weight (and you aren't), but you're burning off fat, which is the main objective for most of us.
posted by randomkeystrike at 3:11 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Does your exercise really vary enough on a weekly basis to justify the effort? Weight fluctuates day to day, sometimes in inexplicable ways. It doesn't pay to try to be precise. It does pay to be consistent in you diet.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:23 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by SemiSalt at 4:23 PM on November 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's NET that matters and your little app is screwing you up.
There's a few terms you need to know:
BMR: basal metabolic rate - the amount of calories you burn just to stay alive.
TDEE: total daily energy expenditure - the total amount of calories you burn, taking into account all your physical activity.
Your TDEE is what matters when it comes to gaining or losing weight (unless you're in a coma).
Here is the thing, which a lot of people get wrong. You need to figure your average calorie balance over a period of time which accounts for your habitual physical activity. What I mean is, if you work out 4 days a week, your TDEE is different those 4 days than the other three days. It's your AVERAGE TDEE over those 7 days that you need to shoot to be slightly under, if your goal is to lose weight/fat. If you calculate your TDEE on a workout day, but don't work out every day, you're going to overshoot!
So, figure your TDEE on a workout day, and your TDEE on a non-workout day. Then calculate your TDEE for the week, and plan your diet around that. If you're hungrier on your workout days, put more calories on those days. If you can get by on the same shit every day then do that, it's simpler.
SO, if you burn 2500 calories on a workout day, and 2000 on a non-workout day, and work out 4 days a week, your total calorie expenditure for a week is 16,000. That's an average of about 2,300 per day.
If you wanted an average calorie balance of -3,500/week), which is reasonable, just figure you probably want to eat more on workout days and less on non-workout days (due to hunger, not any fancy meal-timing bullshit), and plan accordingly.
You say your calorie goal is 1300, but what does that mean? Where does that number come from? Is it 500 cals/day under your TDEE, your BMR? On a workout day or a non-workout day? Get it figured out.
Remember, for any but the advanced athlete, the chronic effect of eating correctly over time is more important than any specific meal timing or daily calorie input. Just get it right on a weekly and monthly basis.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 6:35 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
There's a few terms you need to know:
BMR: basal metabolic rate - the amount of calories you burn just to stay alive.
TDEE: total daily energy expenditure - the total amount of calories you burn, taking into account all your physical activity.
Your TDEE is what matters when it comes to gaining or losing weight (unless you're in a coma).
Here is the thing, which a lot of people get wrong. You need to figure your average calorie balance over a period of time which accounts for your habitual physical activity. What I mean is, if you work out 4 days a week, your TDEE is different those 4 days than the other three days. It's your AVERAGE TDEE over those 7 days that you need to shoot to be slightly under, if your goal is to lose weight/fat. If you calculate your TDEE on a workout day, but don't work out every day, you're going to overshoot!
So, figure your TDEE on a workout day, and your TDEE on a non-workout day. Then calculate your TDEE for the week, and plan your diet around that. If you're hungrier on your workout days, put more calories on those days. If you can get by on the same shit every day then do that, it's simpler.
SO, if you burn 2500 calories on a workout day, and 2000 on a non-workout day, and work out 4 days a week, your total calorie expenditure for a week is 16,000. That's an average of about 2,300 per day.
If you wanted an average calorie balance of -3,500/week), which is reasonable, just figure you probably want to eat more on workout days and less on non-workout days (due to hunger, not any fancy meal-timing bullshit), and plan accordingly.
You say your calorie goal is 1300, but what does that mean? Where does that number come from? Is it 500 cals/day under your TDEE, your BMR? On a workout day or a non-workout day? Get it figured out.
Remember, for any but the advanced athlete, the chronic effect of eating correctly over time is more important than any specific meal timing or daily calorie input. Just get it right on a weekly and monthly basis.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 6:35 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'll tell you what I did when I lost weight, and hope it makes sense: I aimed to get in 1800-2200 of the most nutrient-dense calories I could manage given my taste preferences, with lots of protein and at least 1 cup of veg (2, ideally) at every meal. That was the least I could eat and still feel good and function normally. (I'd tried various targets based on online calculators that used weight loss goals [e.g. x lbs per week], but it quickly became clear that 1500 was not in any way feasible for me, and even 1700 left me cranky.) So I decided that 1800-2200 was what I could live with, and whatever was going to come off was going to come off.
I very roughly accounted for exercise calories, estimating ~400 cals per hour (which I think was close enough given my weight & the kinds of activities I did - 30-60 minutes of moderate to intense cardio and 'metabolic' resistance activities). So I'd log that, initially, just so I didn't freak out on days I ate at the higher end. Intake worked out to 1800-1900 on days I didn't work out, and 2000-2200 on days I did. After a while, I think I still logged exercise, but mostly attended to the intake, knowing that I'd be ok as long as I did some kind of activity.
It was a conservative deficit, for sure, and it took a year, but I lost 50 lbs that way, entirely comfortably. (I've maintained for several years now at ~2000-2200.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:56 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I very roughly accounted for exercise calories, estimating ~400 cals per hour (which I think was close enough given my weight & the kinds of activities I did - 30-60 minutes of moderate to intense cardio and 'metabolic' resistance activities). So I'd log that, initially, just so I didn't freak out on days I ate at the higher end. Intake worked out to 1800-1900 on days I didn't work out, and 2000-2200 on days I did. After a while, I think I still logged exercise, but mostly attended to the intake, knowing that I'd be ok as long as I did some kind of activity.
It was a conservative deficit, for sure, and it took a year, but I lost 50 lbs that way, entirely comfortably. (I've maintained for several years now at ~2000-2200.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:56 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
This has been my personal take on the issue -
- Make sure you eat a minimum number of calories in every day. this number depends on your body size.
- Calories spent in exercise tend to be overestimated (by a factor of 2-3?).
- Depending on how much exercise you do, at lower levels it is best to just not give yourself extra calories, just lose extra weight. If you are going serious exercise, then you probably do need to eat more on those days - let your hunger be your guide.
- In any case, if you are hungry, respect your body and eat more - just go for high volume, low calorie, filling food. (vegetables, fresh fruit, oatmeal) If you do this right, it won't be that many extra calories (and often if I let myself eat when hungry, I would be less hungry the rest of the day and wouldn't nearly as high as I anticipated/feared)
posted by metahawk at 10:13 PM on November 11, 2014
- Make sure you eat a minimum number of calories in every day. this number depends on your body size.
- Calories spent in exercise tend to be overestimated (by a factor of 2-3?).
- Depending on how much exercise you do, at lower levels it is best to just not give yourself extra calories, just lose extra weight. If you are going serious exercise, then you probably do need to eat more on those days - let your hunger be your guide.
- In any case, if you are hungry, respect your body and eat more - just go for high volume, low calorie, filling food. (vegetables, fresh fruit, oatmeal) If you do this right, it won't be that many extra calories (and often if I let myself eat when hungry, I would be less hungry the rest of the day and wouldn't nearly as high as I anticipated/feared)
posted by metahawk at 10:13 PM on November 11, 2014
Or you could just try prayer before your meals since those apps are said to be pretty inaccurate anyway. But if you get motivated by it then the app works great no matter what.
I became a little more "religious" for lack of a better word (I guess you could call me a hindu-ie agnostic jew). Anyway, a while back and I decided to pray or "say grace" as it's called in some religions before each meal and snack. After doing this for a few weeks I realized that I was losing weight and was eating less too. That wasn't my intent. I was also eating more slowly than before. I've come to the conclusion that the reason for this is because when you sincerely pray -as in not just saying the words robotically, but REALLY being present and mindful as you say the words and offer the meal- you become really present with your meal and this in turn makes you more aware of when you're physically satisfied and don't need anymore. Assuming you don't have psychological issues with food, your body is usually pretty good at knowing how many calories it should get without apps and such. But most of us eat while doing other things like watching tv or listening to music etc, so we don't really tune in to our bodies and our meal and we over-eat. One buddhist monk mentioned in a dharma talk how before he became involved with buddhism he was overweight and he would have a box of cookies beside him on the couch and he'd be watching a tv show and suddenly he'd look down and the cookies would suddenly be gone. "Where did they go?" He would ask. And of coarse all of us listening to him smiled because we've all been there. But then he started the practice of "mindful eating" and suddenly he found he could have only a few cookies and be completely satisfied AND remember having eaten them to boot! It really works. Can't hurt to try.
posted by rancher at 10:58 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I became a little more "religious" for lack of a better word (I guess you could call me a hindu-ie agnostic jew). Anyway, a while back and I decided to pray or "say grace" as it's called in some religions before each meal and snack. After doing this for a few weeks I realized that I was losing weight and was eating less too. That wasn't my intent. I was also eating more slowly than before. I've come to the conclusion that the reason for this is because when you sincerely pray -as in not just saying the words robotically, but REALLY being present and mindful as you say the words and offer the meal- you become really present with your meal and this in turn makes you more aware of when you're physically satisfied and don't need anymore. Assuming you don't have psychological issues with food, your body is usually pretty good at knowing how many calories it should get without apps and such. But most of us eat while doing other things like watching tv or listening to music etc, so we don't really tune in to our bodies and our meal and we over-eat. One buddhist monk mentioned in a dharma talk how before he became involved with buddhism he was overweight and he would have a box of cookies beside him on the couch and he'd be watching a tv show and suddenly he'd look down and the cookies would suddenly be gone. "Where did they go?" He would ask. And of coarse all of us listening to him smiled because we've all been there. But then he started the practice of "mindful eating" and suddenly he found he could have only a few cookies and be completely satisfied AND remember having eaten them to boot! It really works. Can't hurt to try.
posted by rancher at 10:58 PM on November 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
rancher - I think there may actually be a similarity between the apps, however flawed, and the prayer before all eating activity - the observer effect, and the mindfulness you spoke of. Entering the food items has a tremendous effect on casual noshing. I was in a Costco today and thought to myself "I'm not eating any of the samples because I don't want to do the paperwork," meaning all the data entries, pushing all the little buttons...
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:19 PM on November 17, 2014
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:19 PM on November 17, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
Otherwise it does not seem useful for your purpose.
posted by muddgirl at 1:12 PM on November 11, 2014