Why would he think it's OK to walk through my house with his boots on?
October 13, 2014 11:13 AM Subscribe
A handyman my husband knows came by today to talk to me about what needs done at our new house. We both came in the back door where I proceeded to take my boots off. He stood there watching me but did not take his boots off nor ask me if I thought he should. He followed me into the house with his boots on, walked through the living room and upstairs the bathroom.
I was surprised that he did this because I believe one takes off one's shoes in someone's house, especially if they do so when they come in. We have had other folks come in and they always take their shoes off. Seeing shoes on in the house is a real turn off for me--all that stuff out there being left on my floors and carpet, oh boy. I should have politely mentioned to him to take his boots off when I noticed he hadn't, but I didn't--I felt so awkward and somewhat intimidated. I don't want to hire this guy because I feel like he doesn't care about other people's things, and that doesn't bode well for someone working on your house. Is it unreasonable for me to be so yucked out about this to not ask him to come over again? I realize all that matters is my own feeling about this but I would like to know where others stand on people who do stuff like this. I think it would be forgivable but I'm not exactly sure how. I have lost trust that he concerns himself with others' feelings if he wouldn't do something so simple and polite. Is it a red flag that he is rude, or ignorant, or am I making a big deal out of this. My husband thinks I am but concedes I have a right to my feelings about shoes not being worn in the house.
I was surprised that he did this because I believe one takes off one's shoes in someone's house, especially if they do so when they come in. We have had other folks come in and they always take their shoes off. Seeing shoes on in the house is a real turn off for me--all that stuff out there being left on my floors and carpet, oh boy. I should have politely mentioned to him to take his boots off when I noticed he hadn't, but I didn't--I felt so awkward and somewhat intimidated. I don't want to hire this guy because I feel like he doesn't care about other people's things, and that doesn't bode well for someone working on your house. Is it unreasonable for me to be so yucked out about this to not ask him to come over again? I realize all that matters is my own feeling about this but I would like to know where others stand on people who do stuff like this. I think it would be forgivable but I'm not exactly sure how. I have lost trust that he concerns himself with others' feelings if he wouldn't do something so simple and polite. Is it a red flag that he is rude, or ignorant, or am I making a big deal out of this. My husband thinks I am but concedes I have a right to my feelings about shoes not being worn in the house.
I think there are different cultures -- I've known people who insist on all shoes off at the door, and I've known people who wear their hiking boots into their bedrooms to change. If you'd asked him and he wasn't willing to take his boots off, you'd be justified, but this time I would give him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by katrielalex at 11:16 AM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by katrielalex at 11:16 AM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Another perspective: I don't think it's appropriate to take ones shoe's off at a work site - it's disrespectful and overly familiar. Your home is this man's worksite.
If you are worried about dirt, which is a legitimate concern, in the future ask handymen and other contractors to wear shoe covers indoors.
posted by muddgirl at 11:17 AM on October 13, 2014 [150 favorites]
If you are worried about dirt, which is a legitimate concern, in the future ask handymen and other contractors to wear shoe covers indoors.
posted by muddgirl at 11:17 AM on October 13, 2014 [150 favorites]
I've never had a handyman or workman who's even once thought about taking his boots off. The shoes on/shoes off indoors split is real, but as far as I've ever noticed, it only applies to guests. A handyman, no matter how friendly he is with you, is there to work, not as a guest.
posted by The Michael The at 11:18 AM on October 13, 2014 [66 favorites]
posted by The Michael The at 11:18 AM on October 13, 2014 [66 favorites]
You should have shoe protectors by the door to offer to people if this squicks you out so much.
This is 100% on you to mitigate.
posted by jbenben at 11:20 AM on October 13, 2014 [38 favorites]
This is 100% on you to mitigate.
posted by jbenben at 11:20 AM on October 13, 2014 [38 favorites]
Even if you are a shoes-off family with a shoes-off home, it is not a legitimate expectation that workmen/workwomen remove their shoes if they are making a professional visit to you. Not only is it a safety issue for them, it is often a non-negotiable insurance issue. They are not going to void their cover to keep your carpets tidy.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2014 [115 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2014 [115 favorites]
I generally find people who do things like this to be a tiny bit grating, but I can also totally see how he might make this mistake in good faith, and think you made a pretty big error yourself.
Perhaps this gentleman isn't familiar with the fact that some people take off their shoes indoors - maybe he parents never did, and he doesn't, and his friends don't, etc. - and when he saw you taking yours off, thought it was solely for comfort. He probably thought, "Maybe waving's feet were getting hot - if I need to take my boots off, I bet waving will tell me."
If you want someone to do something, you have to tell them. Simply "showing" them isn't sufficient and leaves too much room for confusion. His lack of telepathy isn't the problem here; it's your lack of communication.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
Perhaps this gentleman isn't familiar with the fact that some people take off their shoes indoors - maybe he parents never did, and he doesn't, and his friends don't, etc. - and when he saw you taking yours off, thought it was solely for comfort. He probably thought, "Maybe waving's feet were getting hot - if I need to take my boots off, I bet waving will tell me."
If you want someone to do something, you have to tell them. Simply "showing" them isn't sufficient and leaves too much room for confusion. His lack of telepathy isn't the problem here; it's your lack of communication.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:21 AM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
I agree with what's been said so far. We're a shoes off house, and I will always ask other homeowners if they want my shoes off when entering if I see them take theirs off. However, I never, ever expect handymen or other workers to do so. Also, I generally make exceptions for people wearing boots, particularly if there's no easy place to sit down and place one's shoes.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Agreed; he's at work, not a guest in your home. He obviously would not be taking his shoes off to do actual work in your house--i.e., put up drywall, etc., right? Right? Right. He's should be no more expected to take off his shoes when doing a walk through than when handling a circular saw.
He might acquiesce if you asked him for purposes of the walk through, but that's really not standard operating procedure, and it is beholding on you to ask (and to endure the ensuing over-the-top eyeroll you might get). But certainly don't expect him to take off his shoes just because you do.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:23 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
He might acquiesce if you asked him for purposes of the walk through, but that's really not standard operating procedure, and it is beholding on you to ask (and to endure the ensuing over-the-top eyeroll you might get). But certainly don't expect him to take off his shoes just because you do.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:23 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
I grew up in and currently try to maintain a shoes-off house. That absolutely does not apply to anyone coming in to do work, however. If for some reason it was absolutely necessary for the person coming in to do work to take their shoes off, I would ask them to do so (as I do with guests) because unless there's a sign that says NO SHOES, it's not reasonable to assume they will divine the house rules based on my actions.
posted by griphus at 11:23 AM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by griphus at 11:23 AM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Another perspective: I don't think it's appropriate to take ones shoe's off at a work site - it's disrespectful and overly familiar. Your home is this man's worksite.
Yes, and additionally, it's not just that it's inappropriate to remove protective gear, like workboots, at a worksite, it's also likely to be counter to training or even regulations.
I also remove my shoes indoors, and also don't like when people troop through the house in heavy, dirty shoes like workboots. However, it's not really appropriate to ask a worker to remove safety gear (which includes shoes) before or during work.
This situation is what shoe covers are for. I doubt that a handyman or other worker would hesitate to put shoe covers on if you asked (and provided them), even though I'd expect them to hesitate or even refuse to remove their shoes.
posted by rue72 at 11:24 AM on October 13, 2014 [18 favorites]
Yes, and additionally, it's not just that it's inappropriate to remove protective gear, like workboots, at a worksite, it's also likely to be counter to training or even regulations.
I also remove my shoes indoors, and also don't like when people troop through the house in heavy, dirty shoes like workboots. However, it's not really appropriate to ask a worker to remove safety gear (which includes shoes) before or during work.
This situation is what shoe covers are for. I doubt that a handyman or other worker would hesitate to put shoe covers on if you asked (and provided them), even though I'd expect them to hesitate or even refuse to remove their shoes.
posted by rue72 at 11:24 AM on October 13, 2014 [18 favorites]
Work boots are part of his safety gear. He should not take them off while on the job. I would expect him to carry shoe covers for use in finished homes.
It is your right to hire or not hire someone based on your own criteria. If this incident doesn't make you feel comfortable, move on to the next candidate.
For your comfort, you may want to buy a pack of show covers to have on hand for the future.
posted by Talk To Me Goose at 11:25 AM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
It is your right to hire or not hire someone based on your own criteria. If this incident doesn't make you feel comfortable, move on to the next candidate.
For your comfort, you may want to buy a pack of show covers to have on hand for the future.
posted by Talk To Me Goose at 11:25 AM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Why would he think it's OK to walk through my house with his boots on?
Because, as a handyman, all day every day he is in and out of peoples' houses with his boots on.
What you should be worried about is whether or not he'll clean up after the job, use tarps as needed, etc. Handyman work can make a mess.
(No stats, but I suspect the US majority does not have a shoes off rule.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:27 AM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
Because, as a handyman, all day every day he is in and out of peoples' houses with his boots on.
What you should be worried about is whether or not he'll clean up after the job, use tarps as needed, etc. Handyman work can make a mess.
(No stats, but I suspect the US majority does not have a shoes off rule.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:27 AM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
Even if you are a shoes-off family with a shoes-off home, it is not a legitimate expectation that workmen/workwomen remove their shoes if they are making a professional visit to you. Not only is it a safety issue for them, it is often a non-negotiable insurance issue. They are not going to void their cover to keep your carpets tidy.
Yeah, nthing this and all the other views. Generally shoes - off people have my sympathies and i will always respect the practice as a guest, though I don't mind either way in my own home. But I think expecting shoes off for workers isn't appropriate. Even the shoe covers might be a little uncomfortable for them. Once your home becomes someone else's workplace, the rules are a little different. Also all the legal/training issues others have brought up.
posted by sweetkid at 11:27 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yeah, nthing this and all the other views. Generally shoes - off people have my sympathies and i will always respect the practice as a guest, though I don't mind either way in my own home. But I think expecting shoes off for workers isn't appropriate. Even the shoe covers might be a little uncomfortable for them. Once your home becomes someone else's workplace, the rules are a little different. Also all the legal/training issues others have brought up.
posted by sweetkid at 11:27 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
A few things here:
1) People can't read your mind.
2) His job is one of those jobs where it's not safe to do it without shoes.
3) He shouldn't have to take his shoes off while he's working.
4) I don't like shoes in my house either, so I FEEL YOU on this.
5) Get a box of these and put them by your door, and offer them next time this situation arises.
6) Seriously you can't expect people to take their shoes off just because you do. Use your words.
posted by phunniemee at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [26 favorites]
1) People can't read your mind.
2) His job is one of those jobs where it's not safe to do it without shoes.
3) He shouldn't have to take his shoes off while he's working.
4) I don't like shoes in my house either, so I FEEL YOU on this.
5) Get a box of these and put them by your door, and offer them next time this situation arises.
6) Seriously you can't expect people to take their shoes off just because you do. Use your words.
posted by phunniemee at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [26 favorites]
Yeah, they were probably steel-capped boots. No manual worker is going to take his steel-caps off unless you specifically ask him to; it goes against all instinct (not to mention safety regulations).
I get that he wasn't working for you yet, just doing a walk-through, but I still think you're way off-track if you're ascribing his actions to him being some kind of disrespectful boor.
posted by Salamander at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [9 favorites]
I get that he wasn't working for you yet, just doing a walk-through, but I still think you're way off-track if you're ascribing his actions to him being some kind of disrespectful boor.
posted by Salamander at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [9 favorites]
He's working, his line of work generally involves strong potential for sharp objects on the floor, etc.,
Workers are not there to intuit your feelings about footwear. If you want shoes off then you need to state that. If you want shoes covered then state that.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Workers are not there to intuit your feelings about footwear. If you want shoes off then you need to state that. If you want shoes covered then state that.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:31 AM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Another perspective: I don't think it's appropriate to take ones shoe's off at a work site - it's disrespectful and overly familiar. Your home is this man's worksite.
posted by muddgirl at 2:17 PM on October 13
To add to this: if he works for a company, he may be required by his boss to keep his shoes on when at a job site.
Plus, it may not necessarily be safe for him to remove his shoes on a job site, either. That would depend on the job site, of course.
You don't indicate how familiar you expected the handyman to be with your house and the state it's currently in. In your post you say that your house is "new", but that can mean many different things to a home builder, a handyman, an interior decorator, and so forth. "New" could mean "Still Under Construction - Installing Floors Today So Watch Your Step" or "The house has been standing for twenty years, but we just moved into it, so it's 'new' to us."
Unless you spelled it out, the handyman won't know what state of disarray your house could be in when he shows up. Your home could be absolutely pristine. Or, you could be sort of person who buys a house and then immediately starts knocking down walls to re-arrange the floor plan, so remodeling chaos abounds--not an environment to be barefoot in.
So, yeah, I agree with your husband. You are making too big a deal of this. And it strikes me as quite a leap to assume that because he didn't take off his boots, he doesn't care about other people's things. He most likely does--he just cares about not stepping on a nail more.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 2:17 PM on October 13
To add to this: if he works for a company, he may be required by his boss to keep his shoes on when at a job site.
Plus, it may not necessarily be safe for him to remove his shoes on a job site, either. That would depend on the job site, of course.
You don't indicate how familiar you expected the handyman to be with your house and the state it's currently in. In your post you say that your house is "new", but that can mean many different things to a home builder, a handyman, an interior decorator, and so forth. "New" could mean "Still Under Construction - Installing Floors Today So Watch Your Step" or "The house has been standing for twenty years, but we just moved into it, so it's 'new' to us."
Unless you spelled it out, the handyman won't know what state of disarray your house could be in when he shows up. Your home could be absolutely pristine. Or, you could be sort of person who buys a house and then immediately starts knocking down walls to re-arrange the floor plan, so remodeling chaos abounds--not an environment to be barefoot in.
So, yeah, I agree with your husband. You are making too big a deal of this. And it strikes me as quite a leap to assume that because he didn't take off his boots, he doesn't care about other people's things. He most likely does--he just cares about not stepping on a nail more.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:34 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
(Hey, waving, it seems like we're all coming down you like a ton of bricks here. I am guessing you don't know that there are OSHA guidelines, federal laws, and even national standards for the footware itself. It's really, seriously, not at all down to your preference; it's down to federal and state protection for workers. By all means, provide boot covers if it bothers you!)
posted by DarlingBri at 11:36 AM on October 13, 2014 [22 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:36 AM on October 13, 2014 [22 favorites]
Nope, you're way in the wrong here. It's fine for you to feel the way you feel about guests and shoes, but a handyman is not a guest in your home, in the standard sense. He is operating under a set of expectations and regulations that are pretty thoroughly incompatible with being barefoot or sock-footed.
You don't have to hire this guy, but any responsible handyman (as in, someone you would entrust with the safety of your home's construction) will absolutely wear shoes in your home. So you're either gonna have to buy some shoe covers or learn to deal with it.
posted by like_a_friend at 11:38 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
You don't have to hire this guy, but any responsible handyman (as in, someone you would entrust with the safety of your home's construction) will absolutely wear shoes in your home. So you're either gonna have to buy some shoe covers or learn to deal with it.
posted by like_a_friend at 11:38 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Eek, of course I forgot to mention the safety regulation issue! But also thinking beyond just handymen - I've had insurance adjustors, salespeople, etc in normal dress shoes and even sneakers in my house, and I wouldn't expect them to remove their shoes, either.
posted by muddgirl at 11:40 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 11:40 AM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I get the not taking the work boots off thing. It's a pain, it's unsafe... But, based on personal experience with something similar I say hire someone else: I once hired someone once to to do some stuff around the house, upon arrival he stepped right over the door mat and proceeded to wipe his shoes on the "little pretty pink flowered carpet with delicate fringe border" between the kitchen and entry hall. It was obvious that this little rug was NOT a door mat-- especially considering there was a door mat on the floor right next to the pretty rug. As the day wore on, I found his work sloppy and everything done half ass.
posted by goml at 11:40 AM on October 13, 2014
posted by goml at 11:40 AM on October 13, 2014
I'm going to kinda sorta disagree with almost everyone here. Shoes off, no. That's a safety thing. However, ANY WORKER who wears workboots and enters your home without putting on his OWN shoe covers is a shitbag. This would not fly at my husband's work. If you enter a customer's home, you put on shoe covers. They have boxes of them in their work vans. If a contractor that worked for them failed to cover their boots, and soiled or scratched any flooring, my husband's employer would backcharge them for the cost of cleaning and repair.
posted by peep at 11:41 AM on October 13, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by peep at 11:41 AM on October 13, 2014 [11 favorites]
It is crazy rude for you to not state your preferences and then be angry at someone for not following them. This goes for workers and non-workers alike. It was not a valid assumption that he should take off his shoes, and you taking off yours doesn't imply that he should either. If you want a workman to do something in your house then ASK THEM. I agree that he should have had shoe covers handy (most workmen to my house do), but again, that is something you should have asked for, not passive aggressively stewed about.
posted by brainmouse at 11:43 AM on October 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 11:43 AM on October 13, 2014 [10 favorites]
And just for reference, I wear shoes in my house & also think it's rude to make guests take their shoes off, so you know what side of that argument I fall on.
posted by peep at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by peep at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Why would he think it's OK to walk through my house with his boots on?
Why would you think it's okay to not clearly and verbally state your preferences on this issue and then get angry because someone visiting your home in a work capacity did not read your mind and remove their safety gear?
If you have workers in your home and you expect them to take off their shoes, you have to use your words and SAY that. And because workers are frequently prevented by employer policies from removing their shoes and/or clothing in the homes of their clients, you should be prepared to provide shoe covers for such individuals.
This is an unreasonable request to make of workers in your home.
posted by palomar at 11:55 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Why would you think it's okay to not clearly and verbally state your preferences on this issue and then get angry because someone visiting your home in a work capacity did not read your mind and remove their safety gear?
If you have workers in your home and you expect them to take off their shoes, you have to use your words and SAY that. And because workers are frequently prevented by employer policies from removing their shoes and/or clothing in the homes of their clients, you should be prepared to provide shoe covers for such individuals.
This is an unreasonable request to make of workers in your home.
posted by palomar at 11:55 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
I was surprised that he did this because I believe one takes off one's shoes in someone's house, especially if they do so when they come in.
It's far from standard practice. I grew up in Hawaii where it is standard practice, but have lived a lot of other places - in the US and not - where it isn't.
Now you know; in addition to considering that a worker may have regulations about whether or not they can take their shoes off on a job site (like your house), you also now know that is is not something you can assume Everyone Just Does, and you may need to ask people to do so.
posted by rtha at 11:56 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
It's far from standard practice. I grew up in Hawaii where it is standard practice, but have lived a lot of other places - in the US and not - where it isn't.
Now you know; in addition to considering that a worker may have regulations about whether or not they can take their shoes off on a job site (like your house), you also now know that is is not something you can assume Everyone Just Does, and you may need to ask people to do so.
posted by rtha at 11:56 AM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Most of what can be said about the etiquette of inside shoes has already been said in Would you mind taking your shoes off? (2011, 222 answers) and Why do some people wear shoes indoors? (2008, 206 answers).
posted by zamboni at 11:56 AM on October 13, 2014 [15 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 11:56 AM on October 13, 2014 [15 favorites]
As someone who wears workboots, I'd probably try to avoid taking them off in your house as well. My workbooted feet can be pretty stinky. I would probably have asked if I should take them off when I saw you take yours off, but I wouldn't have wanted to.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:57 AM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by sciencegeek at 11:57 AM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
There are definitely at least two questions on the Green I can remember about shoes on or off in the house. The split is pretty even, and not entirely location - based. If you want shoes off you should make that completely obvious with words. Also as others have said, to him he's at work and wouldn't want to remove part of his uniform.
Upon preview, zamboni has the links!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:59 AM on October 13, 2014
Upon preview, zamboni has the links!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:59 AM on October 13, 2014
I never heard of taking one's shoes off in the house as a regular thing and was surprised as an adult to encounter so much moralizing around it. (I wonder if it's a class thing - everyone I know from the "shoes off or you're an uncultured boor" side grew up middle class and urban or was socialized into middle class urban norms.)
I would never not hire someone because they didn't take their work boots off while they were working - judge people on their work and their references, not on [something random about their insurance, their cultural background, habits in their field of which you are not aware, etc]. (And actually, none of the people I've hired to work on the house took their shoes off when walking through or offered to do so.)
Also, to me taking your shoes off is a social/informal/at home thing; I would never do it in a professional context any more than I'd kick my loafers off at the office and pad around barefoot, and I could easily see someone who was in an employee headspace thinking that of course they would not take their shoes off unless asked, because that might come across as too informal/intrusive.
(This just seems like one of those super-high-expectations-of-service-employees things to me and I'm a little uncomfortable with it, actually, since it boils down to "you must come from my cultural background and anticipate my unspoken wishes in order to be allowed to do work for me".)
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on October 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
I would never not hire someone because they didn't take their work boots off while they were working - judge people on their work and their references, not on [something random about their insurance, their cultural background, habits in their field of which you are not aware, etc]. (And actually, none of the people I've hired to work on the house took their shoes off when walking through or offered to do so.)
Also, to me taking your shoes off is a social/informal/at home thing; I would never do it in a professional context any more than I'd kick my loafers off at the office and pad around barefoot, and I could easily see someone who was in an employee headspace thinking that of course they would not take their shoes off unless asked, because that might come across as too informal/intrusive.
(This just seems like one of those super-high-expectations-of-service-employees things to me and I'm a little uncomfortable with it, actually, since it boils down to "you must come from my cultural background and anticipate my unspoken wishes in order to be allowed to do work for me".)
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on October 13, 2014 [16 favorites]
You can choose not to hire this guy for any reason you like, but it's going to be a rare construction worker who will be willing to work on your house barefoot or in stocking feet. They do exist though.
posted by yohko at 12:03 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by yohko at 12:03 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Pretty much all workers I've had to my house brought their own shoe covers, and used them without prompting from me.
posted by festivus at 12:05 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by festivus at 12:05 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
I've lived in countries where shoes-off was a rule. However, now that I'm back in the US, it's a mix of practices, and if people want guests to remove their shoes, they say so.
I've been to parties at friends' houses where, halfway through the party, I notice that I'm the only person wearing shoes. It's so embarrassing! Please be a good host by explicitly telling people if yours is a shoes-off house.
posted by homodachi at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I've been to parties at friends' houses where, halfway through the party, I notice that I'm the only person wearing shoes. It's so embarrassing! Please be a good host by explicitly telling people if yours is a shoes-off house.
posted by homodachi at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Some people think "shoes exist to protect my feet from gross things and are therefore gross," some people think "shoes exist to protect my feet from sharp hurty things and are therefore nothing to be disgusted by." One suspects a workman wearing work boots would fall into this category.
I am in the latter camp, and I'm happy to take my shoes off in someone else's house if they ASK me to... but if they don't ask me, I don't do it, just like I don't whip off my pants and make myself at home.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:11 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
I am in the latter camp, and I'm happy to take my shoes off in someone else's house if they ASK me to... but if they don't ask me, I don't do it, just like I don't whip off my pants and make myself at home.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:11 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
I have lived in about 10 different homes and apartments and had at least 40 different handymen, workmen, AC techs, cable guys etc come into my home and never once have they had shoe covers or taken off their shoes. It is not standard at all. I don't wear shoes in the house either myself but I would never consider it universal or strictly demand that non-close-friends do so.
posted by celtalitha at 12:11 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by celtalitha at 12:11 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
My house is a shoes-off house, and I would never in a million zillion years expect or think to ask a handyman to take off his shoes. Or anyone visiting my home in a professional or business role. The no-shoes rule is for household members and social guests, and even then it's a house rule and not a universal one - at least, not in the USA.
Consider this: many office dress codes require people's shoes to adequately cover their feet, e.g. no sandals, peep-toes, or backless clogs. Men, especially, are expected to keep their feet fully covered. I'm not arguing that such policies are fair or sensible, and of course your house is not an office, but that's an example of the common perception that exposed feet are unprofessional.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:12 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
Consider this: many office dress codes require people's shoes to adequately cover their feet, e.g. no sandals, peep-toes, or backless clogs. Men, especially, are expected to keep their feet fully covered. I'm not arguing that such policies are fair or sensible, and of course your house is not an office, but that's an example of the common perception that exposed feet are unprofessional.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:12 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
Chiming in to point out, as I do in the shoes-off discussions, that I have severely flat feet and require arch support at all times or I quickly am in serious pain that requires a long time for recovery. I respect that some folks prefer a shoes-off house and if I am aware of that beforehand I can bring slippers with arch support and be fine. However, I've encountered some hosts that have been quite rude when I've politely declined to remove my shoes for the stated reason. I'd be more than happy to use covers and encourage you to have them ready to offer, not only to workers with boots but also others who for whatever reason really cannot take off their shoes.
posted by Sublimity at 12:22 PM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by Sublimity at 12:22 PM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Taking my shoes off in someone else's house makes me uncomfortable. And as such, I don't ask or expect others to take their shoes off in my house. Not everyone sees things the same way.
If someone asks if I want them to take their shoes off in my house, I tell them to "Please be comfortable, do as you wish."
posted by humboldt32 at 12:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
If someone asks if I want them to take their shoes off in my house, I tell them to "Please be comfortable, do as you wish."
posted by humboldt32 at 12:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
A better question is: Why would you think it's not appropriate to ask him to take his shoes off in your house.
Had I been that workman, I would have removed my shoes. He didn't though. That is when it is your job to politely ask him to remove his as well. There is no point being put out when someone doesn't do what you want when they may not even know it's what you want done.
posted by thegoldfish at 12:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Had I been that workman, I would have removed my shoes. He didn't though. That is when it is your job to politely ask him to remove his as well. There is no point being put out when someone doesn't do what you want when they may not even know it's what you want done.
posted by thegoldfish at 12:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
When you're in your own house, you do what you like.
If you have good friends/family to visit, you're welcome to ask them to take their shoes off.
When random business people come into your house to work, preferences about this stuff are not really part of the deal. I mean, a contractor needs to protect her or his feet in the workplace with closed toed shoes. That's, like, what it is. Not really negotiable.
To expect someone to retile your bathroom or knock out a wall in stocking feet because of your preferences about wearing shoes in the house is kind of nuts, in my opinion. (And even if they were only there to do light work like measurements or an estimate, shoes stay on for work safety and professionalism reasons IME.)
I say all of the above as a Shoes Off In The House person.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
If you have good friends/family to visit, you're welcome to ask them to take their shoes off.
When random business people come into your house to work, preferences about this stuff are not really part of the deal. I mean, a contractor needs to protect her or his feet in the workplace with closed toed shoes. That's, like, what it is. Not really negotiable.
To expect someone to retile your bathroom or knock out a wall in stocking feet because of your preferences about wearing shoes in the house is kind of nuts, in my opinion. (And even if they were only there to do light work like measurements or an estimate, shoes stay on for work safety and professionalism reasons IME.)
I say all of the above as a Shoes Off In The House person.
posted by Sara C. at 12:28 PM on October 13, 2014 [5 favorites]
You don't want to hire the guy because you feel he doesn't care about other people's things. I get that. But, unless you just really zoned out and didn't get that he was 'at work', the fact that you didn't take his safety/regulation needs into consideration out of 'being turned off' would make me not want to work for you as well. I sort of see it more as a lack of respect on your end, not his.
(And, believe you me, you don't really want a handyman to take off their boots. Whew!)
posted by Vaike at 12:51 PM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
(And, believe you me, you don't really want a handyman to take off their boots. Whew!)
posted by Vaike at 12:51 PM on October 13, 2014 [7 favorites]
Most tradespeople I've worked with have used shoe covers. If this is an issue, provide them. Cheap at Home Depot.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:05 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:05 PM on October 13, 2014
I've recently had a bunch of work done. The workers took their shoes off on the initial inspection visit and then used shoe covers or put down protective tarps on the carpet and hardwood when actually working. But I'm Canadian and apparently that makes a difference.
posted by TORunner at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by TORunner at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [2 favorites]
Unless his shoes were visibly dirty, as in there are muddy footprints throughout your house, I would not think anything of this.
I take my shoes off in the house, but I never insist other people do. Some people are very self conscious about their feet/socks or they wear shoes that are annoying to take on and off. Also, I agree it's a little familiar/casual to take your shoes off in front of a potential client. Even if it's in the client's home.
Unless he actually made a visible mess in your house, I think you are really overreacting.
posted by whoaali at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
I take my shoes off in the house, but I never insist other people do. Some people are very self conscious about their feet/socks or they wear shoes that are annoying to take on and off. Also, I agree it's a little familiar/casual to take your shoes off in front of a potential client. Even if it's in the client's home.
Unless he actually made a visible mess in your house, I think you are really overreacting.
posted by whoaali at 1:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
I don't want to hire this guy because I feel like he doesn't care about other people's things, and that doesn't bode well for someone working on your house. Is it unreasonable for me to be so yucked out about this to not ask him to come over again? I realize all that matters is my own feeling about this but I would like to know where others stand on people who do stuff like this. I think it would be forgivable but I'm not exactly sure how. I have lost trust that he concerns himself with others' feelings if he wouldn't do something so simple and polite.
All that matters is your own feelings about this? Uh, no, that's not true. It is totally inappropriate to expect a handyman to do his work in stocking feet. He came to your home in a professional capacity; for you to expect him to act like a personal guest to demonstrate his trustworthiness is totally out of line.
posted by desuetude at 1:16 PM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
All that matters is your own feelings about this? Uh, no, that's not true. It is totally inappropriate to expect a handyman to do his work in stocking feet. He came to your home in a professional capacity; for you to expect him to act like a personal guest to demonstrate his trustworthiness is totally out of line.
posted by desuetude at 1:16 PM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
Yeah, you can't tell anyone, especially a handyman, that they must take off their shoes to come into your house. There are certainly way worse things in your house than a little dirt.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:23 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:23 PM on October 13, 2014
I felt so awkward and somewhat intimidated.
This is a bigger red flag about whether or not to hire someone than whether or not they take their shoes off. It sounds like he made you feel small. Screw it; don't hire him. There are plenty of contractors and handymen who aren't going to make you feel intimidated. Whether or not it's his fault, who cares? You're hiring him, not the other way around.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is a bigger red flag about whether or not to hire someone than whether or not they take their shoes off. It sounds like he made you feel small. Screw it; don't hire him. There are plenty of contractors and handymen who aren't going to make you feel intimidated. Whether or not it's his fault, who cares? You're hiring him, not the other way around.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:25 PM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
So he wore shoes in your house while WORKING. What is your worst case scenario here? What are the actual concrete consequences you are going to face from someone having their shoes on in your house for a brief time?
posted by asockpuppet at 1:29 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by asockpuppet at 1:29 PM on October 13, 2014
Best answer: Sheesh, reading everyone else's answers I guess I should clarify that I don't think he's a knuckle-dragging oaf for leaving his shoes on--it's that when hiring professionals (doctors, hair stylists, carpenters, whatevers)--good communication is a key thing. I'm a pretty straightforward person, but every once in a while I'll meet someone who presses my buttons in a way that makes me shut down. That could be because I'm neurotic or because they're an asshole, or some combination of both, but the bottom line is that if I need my lamp post replaced, I need to communicate with that person and I'd just as soon have someone doing that that I felt comfortable with.
I guess the most useful thing for you to be asking yourself is whether at heart, you find it difficult to communicate preferences to strangers in your home and employ (which is the deal with contractors) or whether this particular guy skeeved you out outside of those parameters. If it's the former, it's something you'll work on as part of being a homeowner. If it's the latter, trust your instincts and good riddance.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:39 PM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
I guess the most useful thing for you to be asking yourself is whether at heart, you find it difficult to communicate preferences to strangers in your home and employ (which is the deal with contractors) or whether this particular guy skeeved you out outside of those parameters. If it's the former, it's something you'll work on as part of being a homeowner. If it's the latter, trust your instincts and good riddance.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:39 PM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Before the work starts, you should ask him to lay down plastic sheeting in the entryway and hallways to the rooms he and his team will be working in, to keep your carpets clean. That's a perfectly reasonable request.
posted by amaire at 2:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by amaire at 2:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you for the thoughtful responses, really. I wanted to know your thought and i sure got them! My dad was a contractor, as well as my two brothers and would bend over backward with courtesy in this way, as well as asking the homeowners prefernces on most aspects of the project. I have had both bad and good contractors and the best were those who asked me what I preferred along the way. Was I a bad communicator? Yes I was. But this guy reeked dominance and I felt particularly ignored from the get go. Not asking about shoes when visiting or working in another's home all over the map for people, and i'm very glad you reminded me of something I take for granted. Love the shoecover idea. A terrible llama helped pin point my feeling: my communication was at least much of the problem but my gut feeling about this are not worthless neurotic chatter. I still think the guy erred on disrespect of others, wearing shoes in the house is gross, IMO, and a pro would know that they need to take a clints preferences into account from the get go.
posted by waving at 2:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by waving at 2:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [6 favorites]
I live in a shoes-off house and we are pretty strict about it. Whenever someone comes in to do work, we provide shoe covers such as muddgirl linked. Workers often need their boots for foot protection. A more curious or observant person might have asked you if you wanted him to remove his shoes, and I think a conscientous worker would not stamp around inside a house in industrial boots. But since he didn't take the hint, I think it was on you to tell him the problem.
posted by Tanizaki at 2:32 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by Tanizaki at 2:32 PM on October 13, 2014
Probably avoid hiring the guy again. Also consider putting up a tasteful sign.
posted by oceanjesse at 2:33 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by oceanjesse at 2:33 PM on October 13, 2014
I think if you don't have a good feeling about a contractor, that's a perfectly good reason to not work with them. Whatever evidence leads up to that gut feeling may seem out-there to people, but that doesn't really matter. There are plenty of contractors looking for work.
Sometimes I think focusing on a particular aspect of behavior that leads to a gut feeling can be a distraction for people because now they can argue about the tree and miss the forest.
posted by muddgirl at 2:39 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Sometimes I think focusing on a particular aspect of behavior that leads to a gut feeling can be a distraction for people because now they can argue about the tree and miss the forest.
posted by muddgirl at 2:39 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes, a a pro would "know that they need to take a clints preferences into account from the get go." But that means the client has to actually state their preferences. You can keep pinning it on this guy being domineering (which you completely neglected to mention up-front, and may have changed the tenor of some of your answers, so next time please include ALL the info, hmm?), but the fact of the matter is, if you want someone to do something or not do something, SPEAK UP. The only person to blame for your needs not being met is you, because you left your needs unstated. Stop doing that and then blaming others for it, that's unacceptable behavior for an adult.
posted by palomar at 3:04 PM on October 13, 2014 [18 favorites]
posted by palomar at 3:04 PM on October 13, 2014 [18 favorites]
The only person to blame for your needs not being met is you, because you left your needs unstated. Stop doing that and then blaming others for it, that's unacceptable behavior for an adult.
Jeez, that's harsh. I think that there are a bunch of different perspectives on this and I think people approach 'expertise' from different ways. I work for a company where expertise is sacrosanct. That's part of the culture and certain professions are like that. In my company, that leads to a lot of stupid expert-led decisions. My doctor wants to be addressed by his first name and thinks patients are 'customers'. I have never met another doctor who thinks that 'customer service' is part of what's required. I think my parents, who are in their seventies, would think that made him less an authority. Why would he go to medical school for us to stand there and call him Phil?
Some people think that sort of informality and willingness to be questioned is a sign that the person isn't actually an expert at all. Like, if you can't tell whether my house should be canary yellow or olive green why have I hired you? I am paying you for this specific thing.
People have very specific preferences in this arena and while it's fun to play Ask V Guess and all, in the end, we all have to figure out our communication styles with the ultimate aim of getting shit done. This is very specifically something that comes up with women and contractors and a dismissive quality that some people get when they deal with you and some do not - my electrician will nerd out with me about electricity as much as my husband, but there are contractors who have kind of swept past me like I'm a mouse. That's a real thing, it's not just my imagination.
If it's on me to be like, 'fuck you, I'm not a mouse' while, yeah, okay, but still, in the end: I want my house painted or my lamp post replaced. I have lots of little wars to fight in my life. The guy who thinks I'm too stupid to understand my septic system or whatever doesn't represent a battle I'm interested in fighting.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:23 PM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
Jeez, that's harsh. I think that there are a bunch of different perspectives on this and I think people approach 'expertise' from different ways. I work for a company where expertise is sacrosanct. That's part of the culture and certain professions are like that. In my company, that leads to a lot of stupid expert-led decisions. My doctor wants to be addressed by his first name and thinks patients are 'customers'. I have never met another doctor who thinks that 'customer service' is part of what's required. I think my parents, who are in their seventies, would think that made him less an authority. Why would he go to medical school for us to stand there and call him Phil?
Some people think that sort of informality and willingness to be questioned is a sign that the person isn't actually an expert at all. Like, if you can't tell whether my house should be canary yellow or olive green why have I hired you? I am paying you for this specific thing.
People have very specific preferences in this arena and while it's fun to play Ask V Guess and all, in the end, we all have to figure out our communication styles with the ultimate aim of getting shit done. This is very specifically something that comes up with women and contractors and a dismissive quality that some people get when they deal with you and some do not - my electrician will nerd out with me about electricity as much as my husband, but there are contractors who have kind of swept past me like I'm a mouse. That's a real thing, it's not just my imagination.
If it's on me to be like, 'fuck you, I'm not a mouse' while, yeah, okay, but still, in the end: I want my house painted or my lamp post replaced. I have lots of little wars to fight in my life. The guy who thinks I'm too stupid to understand my septic system or whatever doesn't represent a battle I'm interested in fighting.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:23 PM on October 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's proper etiquette in Anglo-Saxon culture to keep your shoes on in someone else's house and also not to ask your guests to take their shoes off. This is because wearing shoes is part of being fully dressed, and being fully dressed in public, and not expecting people who visit you to partially disrobe in order to do so, is polite.
this is in contrast to many Eastern cultures where taking your shoes off is a sign of respect to the person you're visiting.
In Anglo-Saxon culture it's a sign of respect for a person's possessions, and respect for persons always trumps respect for possessions in etiquette terms.
i know everyone's going to say "but in my circle we take our shoes off" and "i always take my shoes off and despise those who don't" and "i think it would be an extreme overreaction and a sign of a sick mind to take out a gun and shoot someone just for wearing shoes in your house" and "I am/am not Asian/Anglo Saxon and I do/do not object to taking shoes off/leaving shoes on" but all those are statements of personal preference, not etiquette.
the actual etiquette is to leave shoes on when visiting, and not to ask visitors to take shoes off.
also, the purpose of etiquette is so that we don't have to constantly second-guess others' personal preferences and we don't have to hold grudges when others fail to divine our own personal preferences.
posted by tel3path at 4:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [14 favorites]
this is in contrast to many Eastern cultures where taking your shoes off is a sign of respect to the person you're visiting.
In Anglo-Saxon culture it's a sign of respect for a person's possessions, and respect for persons always trumps respect for possessions in etiquette terms.
i know everyone's going to say "but in my circle we take our shoes off" and "i always take my shoes off and despise those who don't" and "i think it would be an extreme overreaction and a sign of a sick mind to take out a gun and shoot someone just for wearing shoes in your house" and "I am/am not Asian/Anglo Saxon and I do/do not object to taking shoes off/leaving shoes on" but all those are statements of personal preference, not etiquette.
the actual etiquette is to leave shoes on when visiting, and not to ask visitors to take shoes off.
also, the purpose of etiquette is so that we don't have to constantly second-guess others' personal preferences and we don't have to hold grudges when others fail to divine our own personal preferences.
posted by tel3path at 4:06 PM on October 13, 2014 [14 favorites]
If you got a bad vibe from this guy and felt ignored and that he was trying to dominate you that's a totally valid reason not to hire him. The fact you are attributing so much meaning to him not taking off his shoes may be that you are trying to rationalize why you felt the way you did, but it's totally valid to say yeah, did not get a good vibe from that guy, don't want him in my house and don't want to hire him. That really is ok.
posted by whoaali at 4:49 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by whoaali at 4:49 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's proper etiquette in Anglo-Saxon culture to keep your shoes on in someone else's house and also not to ask your guests to take their shoes off. This is because wearing shoes is part of being fully dressed, and being fully dressed in public, and not expecting people who visit you to partially disrobe in order to do so, is polite.
That depends entirely on where you live, even within "Anglo-saxon culture," whatever that is. I run a shoes-off house in general, but would not expect workers to take their boots off, though I also wouldn't expect them to track in mud. In my experience when things are muddy the guys will leave their boots at the entry or set up cardboard or plastic to walk on.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
That depends entirely on where you live, even within "Anglo-saxon culture," whatever that is. I run a shoes-off house in general, but would not expect workers to take their boots off, though I also wouldn't expect them to track in mud. In my experience when things are muddy the guys will leave their boots at the entry or set up cardboard or plastic to walk on.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
I have a doormat outside and a rug inside. I expect people to wipe their feet, and to wipe them adequately in response to conditions. Winter, mud season, rainy days, etc., generate dirt, mud, salt, and other stuff that I don't want to have to scrub or vacuum from floors and rugs. Most of my floors and rugs are very washable. If I had white carpet or another delicate floor, I would put down paper or a washable throw rug. I have done that for a worker.
posted by theora55 at 5:45 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by theora55 at 5:45 PM on October 13, 2014
Feel free to not hire him because he creeps you out in general, but do realize that the shoe thing is probably a safety issue that you will run into with other folks in that business. If I was having construction in the house and was concerned about this, I'd probably try to cover my floors entirely before the work went down anyway. Pretty soon there's gonna be a lot more mess than footprints, if you get my drift.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:06 PM on October 13, 2014
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:06 PM on October 13, 2014
Best answer: I agree that good communication between you and the client is best. But I think a good contractor (in this case 'handyman' which could imply he may not have a lot of experience) would've picked up on you removing your shoes, and put on shoe covers, or at least asked about your preference. If he didn't get that clue, it's likely he won't pick up on other preferences (i.e., matching existing materials, etc) when he does the project.
posted by artdrectr at 6:47 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by artdrectr at 6:47 PM on October 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Well, again, that's why if you want a specific thing, you have to ask for it and not just hope that the person you're needing the thing from will "pick up on preferences". For instance, you want a contractor to do a specific thing on the job? Get it in writing, don't hope they guess at how you want your home to look. That's a terrible way to work with a contractor.
posted by palomar at 9:01 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by palomar at 9:01 PM on October 13, 2014 [8 favorites]
If he didn't get that clue, it's likely he won't pick up on other preferences (i.e., matching existing materials, etc) when he does the project.
No.
If you are waiting for everyone to pick up on your unstated preferences, that's your problem. A contractor doesn't need to be a mind reader. Frankly, no one does.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [13 favorites]
No.
If you are waiting for everyone to pick up on your unstated preferences, that's your problem. A contractor doesn't need to be a mind reader. Frankly, no one does.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 10:30 PM on October 13, 2014 [13 favorites]
Workers are really unlikely to take off their shoes or even offer. If my mom knows someone is coming over to fix something, she'll put down a path of old newspapers between the front door and the work site. People get the hint and walk only on the papers. I always worried newspapers might be too slippery to walk on, but there are mats you could buy too. Or shoe covers, although I don't how not-slippery those are either :/
posted by joyeuxamelie at 12:50 AM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by joyeuxamelie at 12:50 AM on October 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Followup: I've had three other contractors come over since and all have brought their own shoe covers.
posted by waving at 10:36 AM on December 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 10:36 AM on December 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
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You have a right to your feelings. You also have a responsibility to communicate your needs rather than hoping people will read your mind.
posted by jaguar at 11:16 AM on October 13, 2014 [125 favorites]