FWB Becoming More - Complications
October 7, 2014 6:25 PM Subscribe
Me, female, late 20's. Him, male, early 30's. Recently moved in together and became more serious. Then, we both apparently crossed some boundaries into less fun, more complicated territory. How would you deal? Lots of details behind cut.
I’ve been in an odd relationship with a man for most of 2014. At first it was an FWB situation –I’d just gotten out of a long term relationship and was not looking for anything serious. He never told me he wanted anything more. It wasn’t until I met someone and got into a relationship that he’d let his feelings be known, and at that point, I told him, I still wanted to be his friend. He was pretty upset about this and ended up crying on my shoulder about it and several other situations going on in his life.
That relationship ended very badly and abruptly and he again told me he wanted me to be his girlfriend right after the end of that relationship. I know this is where you may cringe, we made the decision that he would live with me and help me pay bills since I needed help and he needed a place to stay. At that point, we briefly had a conversation about being in a relationship – he’d asked me if we were in a traditional relationship or an open relationship and I told him that I get jealous easily and feel there’s too much complication and competition involved in anything else. He didn’t want to discuss it further.
He told me he’d had an awkward conversation with another girl he’d been seeing given our new status but didn’t indicate what exactly was said. Fast forward to the past few days – we were watching a movie and I go take a bath and get ready for bed. When I get out, he’s gone. My jerk reaction is that he’d went around the corner to call or text someone. When he comes back, we end up watching a movie for a bit and he fell asleep.
I know I crossed some boundaries, but I tried to go to sleep that night and knowing in my mind he was talking to that same girl, I noticed he’d left the phone on and in the bathroom and I checked. Sure enough, he had contacted her – and I read a lot of text conversations. That conversation he had with her that he said was so awkward said he’d gotten back together with his ex and that it wasn’t ‘like that’, that he was just helping me ‘out’ and that there was no reason this girl should stop seeing him. She said something about never wanting to talk to him again, that he’d broken her heart (and I have no idea who she is, but her photo makes her look really young and she lives with her parents according to the texts, so I would guess under 21).
She basically asked him recently if he wanted something she had of his back, and not much else, but he’d texted her that night and all it said was ‘hi sweetheart’. I suppose I was under the impression given our conversations that I was his live-in girlfriend – so one of two things are occurring here. He somehow thinks we’re not in a ‘traditional relationship’ despite the previous conversation or he’s in all sense of the term trying to cheat on me or get into something else already.
I don’t even know what to think about any of this. I haven’t yet talked to him about it – I’m not really sure what to say. As screwed up as it may sound, it makes me think that two can play this game and if he doesn’t want something traditional and wants to continue on as an FWB, then I’ll go back to random dating and forget he ever said he wanted me to be his girlfriend. This of course is a jerk reaction and not the best way to go about things.
What would you do or say if you were in this situation?
I’ve been in an odd relationship with a man for most of 2014. At first it was an FWB situation –I’d just gotten out of a long term relationship and was not looking for anything serious. He never told me he wanted anything more. It wasn’t until I met someone and got into a relationship that he’d let his feelings be known, and at that point, I told him, I still wanted to be his friend. He was pretty upset about this and ended up crying on my shoulder about it and several other situations going on in his life.
That relationship ended very badly and abruptly and he again told me he wanted me to be his girlfriend right after the end of that relationship. I know this is where you may cringe, we made the decision that he would live with me and help me pay bills since I needed help and he needed a place to stay. At that point, we briefly had a conversation about being in a relationship – he’d asked me if we were in a traditional relationship or an open relationship and I told him that I get jealous easily and feel there’s too much complication and competition involved in anything else. He didn’t want to discuss it further.
He told me he’d had an awkward conversation with another girl he’d been seeing given our new status but didn’t indicate what exactly was said. Fast forward to the past few days – we were watching a movie and I go take a bath and get ready for bed. When I get out, he’s gone. My jerk reaction is that he’d went around the corner to call or text someone. When he comes back, we end up watching a movie for a bit and he fell asleep.
I know I crossed some boundaries, but I tried to go to sleep that night and knowing in my mind he was talking to that same girl, I noticed he’d left the phone on and in the bathroom and I checked. Sure enough, he had contacted her – and I read a lot of text conversations. That conversation he had with her that he said was so awkward said he’d gotten back together with his ex and that it wasn’t ‘like that’, that he was just helping me ‘out’ and that there was no reason this girl should stop seeing him. She said something about never wanting to talk to him again, that he’d broken her heart (and I have no idea who she is, but her photo makes her look really young and she lives with her parents according to the texts, so I would guess under 21).
She basically asked him recently if he wanted something she had of his back, and not much else, but he’d texted her that night and all it said was ‘hi sweetheart’. I suppose I was under the impression given our conversations that I was his live-in girlfriend – so one of two things are occurring here. He somehow thinks we’re not in a ‘traditional relationship’ despite the previous conversation or he’s in all sense of the term trying to cheat on me or get into something else already.
I don’t even know what to think about any of this. I haven’t yet talked to him about it – I’m not really sure what to say. As screwed up as it may sound, it makes me think that two can play this game and if he doesn’t want something traditional and wants to continue on as an FWB, then I’ll go back to random dating and forget he ever said he wanted me to be his girlfriend. This of course is a jerk reaction and not the best way to go about things.
What would you do or say if you were in this situation?
This is all too complicated to end well for anybody involved. Be honest with each other find a way to move apart - stop living together, and build a life henceforth. Take with you what you've learned, and try again. Neither of you are in love, trusting of each other, or trying to truly support each other
posted by Lucky Bobo at 6:41 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Lucky Bobo at 6:41 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Get out of this situation as fast as you possibly can. Nothing good can come of any of this.
One thing that really sticks out to me here is that you don't mention once what your feelings for this guy are, how you feel about your relationship status, or what you want (aside from mentioning that you can be jealous).
Why are you letting this dude drive the bus in your relationship? If you need help with the bills get a real roommate, not some entitled jerk who thrives on drama.
posted by Sara C. at 6:41 PM on October 7, 2014 [16 favorites]
One thing that really sticks out to me here is that you don't mention once what your feelings for this guy are, how you feel about your relationship status, or what you want (aside from mentioning that you can be jealous).
Why are you letting this dude drive the bus in your relationship? If you need help with the bills get a real roommate, not some entitled jerk who thrives on drama.
posted by Sara C. at 6:41 PM on October 7, 2014 [16 favorites]
Okay, this is just crazy. You need to get yourself into a housing situation you can afford without his help, and then separately determine whether you want to be dating him, and if so, under what conditions. It's not 100% clear, but he doesn't seem to want what you want in a relationship, so probably you do not want to be dating him.
posted by ktkt at 6:44 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by ktkt at 6:44 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
So you had a friends with benefits relationship with this guy. This doesn't mean that you should live with him or try to have a real relationship with him. This is settling.
Just because the guy is in close proximity doesn't mean that you should be investing in him. Raise your standards. Be choosy and really think about what kind of person you want to be with. Think about how you're going to get out of living with him and how you'll choose more dignified roommates and partners in the future.
posted by Fairchild at 6:50 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Just because the guy is in close proximity doesn't mean that you should be investing in him. Raise your standards. Be choosy and really think about what kind of person you want to be with. Think about how you're going to get out of living with him and how you'll choose more dignified roommates and partners in the future.
posted by Fairchild at 6:50 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Forget about what you read in the texts. Think only about what you know for sure...the things that you and he have said out loud to each other. It wouldn't be surprising if he was avoiding telling this other woman how he really feels. Don't talk to him about what you read on his phone. Just talk about how you feel and how he feels. And let him talk, even if you really want to jump in with your side of things.
Whatever you want to clarify... ask him. And also tell how you feel, so he won't be looking for clues. A lot of people, including me, grew up trying to guess and interpret what people are thinking and feeling, but that actually doesn't work well at all. The better, more open way is hard when it's the opposite of what you're used to. Your mind will automatically make things up based on the little bit that you know, and so will his. But you should try asking open-ended questions to find out what's really going on with him.
He said he had an awkward conversation -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that awkward things were said. You can ask him straight out if he feels awkward about living with you. You can ask him how he feels now that you've been in the same apartment for a while.
posted by wryly at 7:11 PM on October 7, 2014
Whatever you want to clarify... ask him. And also tell how you feel, so he won't be looking for clues. A lot of people, including me, grew up trying to guess and interpret what people are thinking and feeling, but that actually doesn't work well at all. The better, more open way is hard when it's the opposite of what you're used to. Your mind will automatically make things up based on the little bit that you know, and so will his. But you should try asking open-ended questions to find out what's really going on with him.
He said he had an awkward conversation -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that awkward things were said. You can ask him straight out if he feels awkward about living with you. You can ask him how he feels now that you've been in the same apartment for a while.
posted by wryly at 7:11 PM on October 7, 2014
we both apparently crossed some boundaries into less fun, more complicated territory. How would you deal? ... he again told me he wanted me to be his girlfriend right after the end of that relationship. ... we made the decision that he would live with me and help me pay bills since I needed help and he needed a place to stay. At that point, we briefly had a conversation about being in a relationship – he’d asked me if we were in a traditional relationship or an open relationship and I told him that I get jealous easily and feel there’s too much complication and competition involved in anything else. He didn’t want to discuss it further. ... He told me he’d had an awkward conversation with another girl he’d been seeing given our new status but didn’t indicate what exactly was said.
NONE OF THIS IS EVEN REMOTELY CLEAR. All the crucial relationship-status bits are loosely implied rather than stated, and as Sara C. points out, this is especially true of your own feelings, desires, goals, etc. I get that you're trying to relay these events in a neutral way, so that we can decide what they mean, uninfluenced by your own interpretation, but if you and your quasi-boyfriend communicate the way you're communicating with us, it's no wonder things are unfolding in an ambiguous manner.
For example: you told him you get jealous easily and find other things too complicated and competitive. But ... does that mean you want a traditional relationship? That does not necessarily follow (especially since you started out as friends with benefits, which is neither a traditional nor an open relationship). It also does not follow that you want to be in a traditional relationship WITH HIM. Finally, the conversation (as you seem to have noticed) does not establish any kind of commitment on his part (nor, as far as you have relayed it, on yours).
This preference for indirectness makes sense if we assume that you two subscribe to an ideology of relationships in which being rejected is always a slight to your personal honor, and rejecting someone else automatically makes you cooler than them. (Please note that this is not a belief shared by anyone who has fought their way to emotional maturity.) Ambiguity is thus motivated by either (a) not wanting to get dissed, or (b) not wanting to diss the other person. Tact is good, but in this case an excess of tact is causing the same unpleasant feelings y'all had sought to avoid.
The only way this situation is going to become less complicated (and hopefully more fun) again is for at least one of you to figure out what you want, and state it to the other explicitly, preferably including a description of your own emotions. (You will find this and other tips for making requests if you websearch the acronym 'DEAR MAN GIVE FAST'.)
If Mr. Quasi-Boyfriend refuses to discuss the topic you have raised, then it's up to you to find a new thing you want, one which does not depend on his input. For example, a pleasurable cup of hot chocolate at a local café, sipped while scanning ads for other such items, such as a new apartment and/or a new roommate and/or a new friend with benefits and/or a new boyfriend.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:59 PM on October 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
NONE OF THIS IS EVEN REMOTELY CLEAR. All the crucial relationship-status bits are loosely implied rather than stated, and as Sara C. points out, this is especially true of your own feelings, desires, goals, etc. I get that you're trying to relay these events in a neutral way, so that we can decide what they mean, uninfluenced by your own interpretation, but if you and your quasi-boyfriend communicate the way you're communicating with us, it's no wonder things are unfolding in an ambiguous manner.
For example: you told him you get jealous easily and find other things too complicated and competitive. But ... does that mean you want a traditional relationship? That does not necessarily follow (especially since you started out as friends with benefits, which is neither a traditional nor an open relationship). It also does not follow that you want to be in a traditional relationship WITH HIM. Finally, the conversation (as you seem to have noticed) does not establish any kind of commitment on his part (nor, as far as you have relayed it, on yours).
This preference for indirectness makes sense if we assume that you two subscribe to an ideology of relationships in which being rejected is always a slight to your personal honor, and rejecting someone else automatically makes you cooler than them. (Please note that this is not a belief shared by anyone who has fought their way to emotional maturity.) Ambiguity is thus motivated by either (a) not wanting to get dissed, or (b) not wanting to diss the other person. Tact is good, but in this case an excess of tact is causing the same unpleasant feelings y'all had sought to avoid.
The only way this situation is going to become less complicated (and hopefully more fun) again is for at least one of you to figure out what you want, and state it to the other explicitly, preferably including a description of your own emotions. (You will find this and other tips for making requests if you websearch the acronym 'DEAR MAN GIVE FAST'.)
If Mr. Quasi-Boyfriend refuses to discuss the topic you have raised, then it's up to you to find a new thing you want, one which does not depend on his input. For example, a pleasurable cup of hot chocolate at a local café, sipped while scanning ads for other such items, such as a new apartment and/or a new roommate and/or a new friend with benefits and/or a new boyfriend.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:59 PM on October 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
He knew he was doing something wrong by contacting that poor girl because he snuck out to communicate with her.
There is no clarifying conversation that will be satisfying for you because dude seems like he sees Truth and Facts as malleable quantities.
Yuck.
I think the conversation you should have is about having him move out.
If he cries you can silently laugh to yourself, knowing that his feelings for you are fairly shallow, regardless of what he says.
Obviously, you can believe his deeds over his words when it comes to him talking about his feelings.
Good luck extricating yourself from this craziness.
posted by jbenben at 8:08 PM on October 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
There is no clarifying conversation that will be satisfying for you because dude seems like he sees Truth and Facts as malleable quantities.
Yuck.
I think the conversation you should have is about having him move out.
If he cries you can silently laugh to yourself, knowing that his feelings for you are fairly shallow, regardless of what he says.
Obviously, you can believe his deeds over his words when it comes to him talking about his feelings.
Good luck extricating yourself from this craziness.
posted by jbenben at 8:08 PM on October 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
You can't have this much ambiguity if you're living together. If you're not comfortable with the non monogamy, you have to talk to him about it now and make different living arrangements if you can't get on the same page. This will end up torturing you more than working out how to cover bills ever will.
posted by sweetkid at 8:08 PM on October 7, 2014
posted by sweetkid at 8:08 PM on October 7, 2014
I had to read this twice before I could even figure out whether YOU thought you were in a 'traditional relationship'.
E.g.
Q. he’d asked me if we were in a traditional relationship or an open relationship and I told him...
that I get jealous easily and feel there’s too much complication and competition involved in anything else"
Did you actually just say "Yes, I want to be in a traditional relationship with you". Because, anything other than a clear yes, kind of sounds like a 'Actually, no, not really'. You may not think so, but it sounds very similar to what a very indirect, passive-agressive aquaintaince said to someone else, when they apparently actually meant something more like "I don't want to commit, but I get jealous, so neither of us should tell the other person if we're sleeping around on them, like I plan to do".
'Recently moved in together'. Yeah. Bad plan. Eh, I've been there too. It was still a bad plan.
In my situation, we actually got our communication together, and it turned out a relationship could have been kind of feasible from near the beginning - but, I feel there is something of the opposite of sunk costs to relationships, and that is, if you've had crazy miscommunications for a long time, there isn't much point being together, because you may get that particular issue straightened out, but you've got into the habit of completely misreading the other persons signals and communications, which means the relationship is basically a write off.
TL, DR: Find a new flatmate for you, and living situation for him.
posted by Elysum at 8:19 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
E.g.
Q. he’d asked me if we were in a traditional relationship or an open relationship and I told him...
that I get jealous easily and feel there’s too much complication and competition involved in anything else"
Did you actually just say "Yes, I want to be in a traditional relationship with you". Because, anything other than a clear yes, kind of sounds like a 'Actually, no, not really'. You may not think so, but it sounds very similar to what a very indirect, passive-agressive aquaintaince said to someone else, when they apparently actually meant something more like "I don't want to commit, but I get jealous, so neither of us should tell the other person if we're sleeping around on them, like I plan to do".
'Recently moved in together'. Yeah. Bad plan. Eh, I've been there too. It was still a bad plan.
In my situation, we actually got our communication together, and it turned out a relationship could have been kind of feasible from near the beginning - but, I feel there is something of the opposite of sunk costs to relationships, and that is, if you've had crazy miscommunications for a long time, there isn't much point being together, because you may get that particular issue straightened out, but you've got into the habit of completely misreading the other persons signals and communications, which means the relationship is basically a write off.
TL, DR: Find a new flatmate for you, and living situation for him.
posted by Elysum at 8:19 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
What would you do or say if you were in this situation?
"Holy fuck, how did I get myself in this situation? We're both terrible at communicatong, I sneakily reading his texts, who needs this shit? Need to find a simple roommate, get this guy outta here and work on getting myself together!"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:31 PM on October 7, 2014 [14 favorites]
"Holy fuck, how did I get myself in this situation? We're both terrible at communicatong, I sneakily reading his texts, who needs this shit? Need to find a simple roommate, get this guy outta here and work on getting myself together!"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:31 PM on October 7, 2014 [14 favorites]
You set this up, but he invited you to do it. Been there.
Listen, there isn't anything particularly complicated going on here. Welcome to shitting where you eat. Never live with someone you just started dating, and don't fuck your roommate. Don't tell me you're contemplating an open relationship and you share the same bed. Heh. Love doesn't have to be about making impossible situations work out.
posted by phaedon at 8:46 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Listen, there isn't anything particularly complicated going on here. Welcome to shitting where you eat. Never live with someone you just started dating, and don't fuck your roommate. Don't tell me you're contemplating an open relationship and you share the same bed. Heh. Love doesn't have to be about making impossible situations work out.
posted by phaedon at 8:46 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you're going to keep living with him, stop fucking him.
If you're going to keep fucking him, stop living with him.
posted by ottereroticist at 9:04 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you're going to keep fucking him, stop living with him.
posted by ottereroticist at 9:04 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
He's going to take advantage of you as long as you allow him to financially "help" you, and you surely must know this on some level.
posted by quincunx at 9:59 PM on October 7, 2014
posted by quincunx at 9:59 PM on October 7, 2014
If I were you, I'd get a reality check because I don't even get how you think you're his 'girlfriend'. I'm reading your question backwards and forwards, and I don't get why you think he should honor you like a girlfriend in a 'traditional relationship' when you don't even honor his feelings for you enough to acknowledge and validate him as your 'boyfriend'.
then I’ll go back to random dating and forget he ever said he wanted me to be his girlfriend
Seriously, do it. You're not acting like an adult who wants a 'traditional relationship'. He asked you to be his girlfriend, and you reduced the worth of his offer into an exchange of financial/sexual goods and services. THAT is why this is going to end badly, with him looking for someone who wants to enjoy him for the person he is (instead of, you know, being used for sex and money... cuz he's just such a replaceable man that way). You never actually said what it is you want from him, i.e. to be your FWB and help pay your bills indefinitely and only so long as things are good and there's no complications... For fawk's sakes, you're not even doing the dignity of calling and affirming him as being your 'boyfriend'. He's just the pathetic guy you 'took in', have sex with, and are now getting money from.
And yeah, I get that he's made choices here too by settling for a FWB when he really wanted a girlfriend who would actually care about him, so I'm rooting that this will be a one-time learning experience for him in which he never settles for less in an intimate relationship again.
Anyhow, to answer your specific question: If I were in your situation, I would have a solid plan for paying my bills on my own. Then I would have an actual relationship talk with him in which I would state what I actually want and be prepared to accept the consequences that may come with the reality of having incompatible needs. Somehow I think your wanting all the fixings -- most especially the financial benefits -- of a relationship that you never have to honor as existing and that you can abandon anytime you need to is simply not compatible with his need to feel validated as a worthy person in an adult relationship. No person ever wants to feel like their value to another person they care about is based on their ability to provide money and/or sex. That's not how healthy adult relationships work. So seriously, as an adult woman, learn to pay your bills on your own and let him go. He doesn't need you to save him.
posted by human ecologist at 11:51 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
then I’ll go back to random dating and forget he ever said he wanted me to be his girlfriend
Seriously, do it. You're not acting like an adult who wants a 'traditional relationship'. He asked you to be his girlfriend, and you reduced the worth of his offer into an exchange of financial/sexual goods and services. THAT is why this is going to end badly, with him looking for someone who wants to enjoy him for the person he is (instead of, you know, being used for sex and money... cuz he's just such a replaceable man that way). You never actually said what it is you want from him, i.e. to be your FWB and help pay your bills indefinitely and only so long as things are good and there's no complications... For fawk's sakes, you're not even doing the dignity of calling and affirming him as being your 'boyfriend'. He's just the pathetic guy you 'took in', have sex with, and are now getting money from.
And yeah, I get that he's made choices here too by settling for a FWB when he really wanted a girlfriend who would actually care about him, so I'm rooting that this will be a one-time learning experience for him in which he never settles for less in an intimate relationship again.
Anyhow, to answer your specific question: If I were in your situation, I would have a solid plan for paying my bills on my own. Then I would have an actual relationship talk with him in which I would state what I actually want and be prepared to accept the consequences that may come with the reality of having incompatible needs. Somehow I think your wanting all the fixings -- most especially the financial benefits -- of a relationship that you never have to honor as existing and that you can abandon anytime you need to is simply not compatible with his need to feel validated as a worthy person in an adult relationship. No person ever wants to feel like their value to another person they care about is based on their ability to provide money and/or sex. That's not how healthy adult relationships work. So seriously, as an adult woman, learn to pay your bills on your own and let him go. He doesn't need you to save him.
posted by human ecologist at 11:51 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
You have no business being in a relationship. No one has any business faffing around with FWB, but that's my opinion, but you never see anyone here crowing about how great they are. But I digress.
You need to be in a housing situation where you have no sexual intermingling with other folks in the house. So roommates or a studio apartment, or whatever you can afford on your own.
You need to break up with this guy. Don't go into a lot of song and dance about what works and what doesn't. The only relevant thing in this is: "I'm not in love with you and I don't want to live with you."
It sounds harsh, but if it's true, it's the kindest thing you can do for him at this juncture.
You need at least a year away from relationships and dating. Assess what kind of relationship it is that you want. Remember what you enjoy, and how much time you like to have alone. Reconnect with your friends, get a new hobby, enroll in grad school. Stop diddling around with sex and dating until you feel that you are 100%, authentically real and NOT SETTLING for anything in your life, especially a relationship.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
You need to be in a housing situation where you have no sexual intermingling with other folks in the house. So roommates or a studio apartment, or whatever you can afford on your own.
You need to break up with this guy. Don't go into a lot of song and dance about what works and what doesn't. The only relevant thing in this is: "I'm not in love with you and I don't want to live with you."
It sounds harsh, but if it's true, it's the kindest thing you can do for him at this juncture.
You need at least a year away from relationships and dating. Assess what kind of relationship it is that you want. Remember what you enjoy, and how much time you like to have alone. Reconnect with your friends, get a new hobby, enroll in grad school. Stop diddling around with sex and dating until you feel that you are 100%, authentically real and NOT SETTLING for anything in your life, especially a relationship.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
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I don’t even know what to think about any of this. I haven’t yet talked to him about it – I’m not really sure what to say. As screwed up as it may sound, it makes me think that two can play this game and if he doesn’t want something traditional and wants to continue on as an FWB, then I’ll go back to random dating and forget he ever said he wanted me to be his girlfriend. This of course is a jerk reaction and not the best way to go about things.
Maybe he's not playing a game. I don't think you should assume that it's a game to him without further inquiry, and intentionally hurting someone, even if they have hurt you, is never satisfying.
posted by janey47 at 6:30 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]