How do I handle heavy-handed compliments?
October 6, 2014 6:12 PM Subscribe
I'm dating an extremely warm, sincere, and earnest person. Help me figure out how to handle his mountains of affection.
I consider myself to be a very warm & affectionate person. But this dude is next level. We met in May, started really hardcore crushing and hanging out a lot at the beginning of August, and then hooked up a little over 2 weeks ago. Since then, we've both moved into full-on smitten mode. You know how that limerence phase is - amazing, intense, kind of obsessive, etc.! For both of us. It comes complete with the most affectionate words I've ever heard from a lover - which sometimes feels great to me, and sometimes feels overwhelming and off-putting.
Part of the reason why his warmth is so impressive is because of all he's overcome - including a childhood with physically & emotionally abusive parents who beat him up and threw him out of the house into the Alaskan winter; including war; including some severely fucked-up stuff. This is someone who has seen so much that he has every reason to be a cold-hearted psychopath. Instead he's done tremendous amounts of work and has decided to live his life in an absolutely authentic, open, loving way. It's not the same as seeing starry eyes in someone who is all peace and love because they've never known anything else. It's starry eyes plus experience; it's starry eyes plus boundaries. Which feels lovely, generally. He says that he feels things in a really extreme way. He's incredibly grateful for even tiny things - partially because of where he's been, I think.
I'm one of the targets of his gratitude, of this absolutely pure and earnest undying affection, and I am having a hard time knowing exactly how to deal with it. In the late-night intimate pillow-talk moments it feels heartbreakingly touching and perfect. As a text in the middle of my work day it feels overwhelming and overly dramatic/sentimental. Like I'm not sure he knows me well enough for that yet, or that I can't believe he could feel that strongly. I find myself bouncing between completely adoring him and feeling turned off by this avalanche of love from him; like his rambly messages are just *too much.*
My question is: do I figure out how to take all this in? If so - how? Or do I gracefully ask him (again) to tone it down a little?
I did try to give him this feedback recently that his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed. I requested a light dusting of snowflakes instead. I'm a dancer, and I tried to explain the dance analogy - that a little bit of space/tension is what makes it extra sexy, it's what allows for back and forth. I don't want games, but I also don't mind a little bit of mystery! I like light. Letting the story roll out little by little instead of spilling it all at once. He took my feedback as a request to be a little more superficial rather than deep; to be light instead of too emotionally intimate. He explained that he wanted to be true and say what was in his heart…that it would feel odd to him not to do that. And once we had the conversation…once he really explained where all the words came from, I saw it really was 100% sincere. It's just uncommon to see that kind of sincerity and unbounded kindness. I moved from feeling put-off to utterly touched again. Leading me to believe that I like the emotional intimacy…but need to warm up to it a bit? I think part of why it feels so funny to me is that I feel sort of professionally distant and buttoned up for part of my day (work!) and then more open and heart-centered at others (with dear friends once I've relaxed, etc.). He seems to be ALWAYS ON, always open, open fearless, always vulnerable. I want to just treasure this! But it doesn't feel quite right to me sometimes.
How can we both be true to who we are? Is it as simple as letting him know that he's welcome to dish it out…but that I'm not always able to take in the love until I can relax into it? Will I stop feeling put-off/overwhelmed if I make this decision?
I'm also curious because I've been on the other side of this. I've overwhelmed others with my completely genuine and super warm compliments. And I'd like to know how to best take care of my beloveds who might not be ready to receive!
I consider myself to be a very warm & affectionate person. But this dude is next level. We met in May, started really hardcore crushing and hanging out a lot at the beginning of August, and then hooked up a little over 2 weeks ago. Since then, we've both moved into full-on smitten mode. You know how that limerence phase is - amazing, intense, kind of obsessive, etc.! For both of us. It comes complete with the most affectionate words I've ever heard from a lover - which sometimes feels great to me, and sometimes feels overwhelming and off-putting.
Part of the reason why his warmth is so impressive is because of all he's overcome - including a childhood with physically & emotionally abusive parents who beat him up and threw him out of the house into the Alaskan winter; including war; including some severely fucked-up stuff. This is someone who has seen so much that he has every reason to be a cold-hearted psychopath. Instead he's done tremendous amounts of work and has decided to live his life in an absolutely authentic, open, loving way. It's not the same as seeing starry eyes in someone who is all peace and love because they've never known anything else. It's starry eyes plus experience; it's starry eyes plus boundaries. Which feels lovely, generally. He says that he feels things in a really extreme way. He's incredibly grateful for even tiny things - partially because of where he's been, I think.
I'm one of the targets of his gratitude, of this absolutely pure and earnest undying affection, and I am having a hard time knowing exactly how to deal with it. In the late-night intimate pillow-talk moments it feels heartbreakingly touching and perfect. As a text in the middle of my work day it feels overwhelming and overly dramatic/sentimental. Like I'm not sure he knows me well enough for that yet, or that I can't believe he could feel that strongly. I find myself bouncing between completely adoring him and feeling turned off by this avalanche of love from him; like his rambly messages are just *too much.*
My question is: do I figure out how to take all this in? If so - how? Or do I gracefully ask him (again) to tone it down a little?
I did try to give him this feedback recently that his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed. I requested a light dusting of snowflakes instead. I'm a dancer, and I tried to explain the dance analogy - that a little bit of space/tension is what makes it extra sexy, it's what allows for back and forth. I don't want games, but I also don't mind a little bit of mystery! I like light. Letting the story roll out little by little instead of spilling it all at once. He took my feedback as a request to be a little more superficial rather than deep; to be light instead of too emotionally intimate. He explained that he wanted to be true and say what was in his heart…that it would feel odd to him not to do that. And once we had the conversation…once he really explained where all the words came from, I saw it really was 100% sincere. It's just uncommon to see that kind of sincerity and unbounded kindness. I moved from feeling put-off to utterly touched again. Leading me to believe that I like the emotional intimacy…but need to warm up to it a bit? I think part of why it feels so funny to me is that I feel sort of professionally distant and buttoned up for part of my day (work!) and then more open and heart-centered at others (with dear friends once I've relaxed, etc.). He seems to be ALWAYS ON, always open, open fearless, always vulnerable. I want to just treasure this! But it doesn't feel quite right to me sometimes.
How can we both be true to who we are? Is it as simple as letting him know that he's welcome to dish it out…but that I'm not always able to take in the love until I can relax into it? Will I stop feeling put-off/overwhelmed if I make this decision?
I'm also curious because I've been on the other side of this. I've overwhelmed others with my completely genuine and super warm compliments. And I'd like to know how to best take care of my beloveds who might not be ready to receive!
As a text in the middle of my work day it feels overwhelming and overly dramatic/sentimental.
I think part of why it feels so funny to me is that I feel sort of professionally distant and buttoned up for part of my day (work!)
It sounds to me like you can let him know that you aren't comfortable with trying to deal with this while at work. That's completely reasonable and has nothing to do with being uncomfortable with gushiness.
How can we both be true to who we are?
I was once involved with a much older, more reserved gentleman whom I was really crazy about. He was really sweet about saying "That sounds lovely" or "You sound so sweet" when I would gush at him without feeling like he had to gush back. He never told me that he loved me. He always told me honestly that he did not wish to remarry, that once was enough for him, but when I would gush about being in love with him and hoping to marry him, he would say nice, sincere things like "That does my ego good" or something.
He was very accepting of me being gushy without feeling pressured to say anything insincere on his part. It was a really wonderful experience for me. I felt very validated. I had never had anyone be so accepting of my feelings before. I adored him for that and did not resent that he was honest about not wanting to marry me, not feeling the same way I did, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 6:39 PM on October 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
I think part of why it feels so funny to me is that I feel sort of professionally distant and buttoned up for part of my day (work!)
It sounds to me like you can let him know that you aren't comfortable with trying to deal with this while at work. That's completely reasonable and has nothing to do with being uncomfortable with gushiness.
How can we both be true to who we are?
I was once involved with a much older, more reserved gentleman whom I was really crazy about. He was really sweet about saying "That sounds lovely" or "You sound so sweet" when I would gush at him without feeling like he had to gush back. He never told me that he loved me. He always told me honestly that he did not wish to remarry, that once was enough for him, but when I would gush about being in love with him and hoping to marry him, he would say nice, sincere things like "That does my ego good" or something.
He was very accepting of me being gushy without feeling pressured to say anything insincere on his part. It was a really wonderful experience for me. I felt very validated. I had never had anyone be so accepting of my feelings before. I adored him for that and did not resent that he was honest about not wanting to marry me, not feeling the same way I did, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 6:39 PM on October 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
Ugh, that sounds so smothering. You're not me, but I would totally insist on him toning this way down. It is definitely weird for every moment to be an intimate heartfelt ALL-THE-FEELINGS moment. He can think and feel what he wants, but he doesn't need to repeatedly say every bit of it.
posted by ktkt at 6:41 PM on October 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by ktkt at 6:41 PM on October 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
You have three choices here:
1. Just remind yourself that this is how he talks, and take it in stride. As in, don't assume that because he sends you all this purple prose, that means his feelings are outsized or that he feels things about you that are not normal. Just assume that "you are the stars against the velvet dark of my soul" is like his equivalent of "sup".
2. Bring it up in a casual type manner. "It's so flattering when you send me these texts, but sometimes they're so intense that I feel a little uncomfortable." Talk it out, and potentially either ask him to stop or just get to the bottom of his style of expression or whatever seems to be the most apt after talking to him about it.
3. If it's such a problem that neither of the above solutions are workable for you, maybe it's just not meant to be.
posted by Sara C. at 7:01 PM on October 6, 2014
1. Just remind yourself that this is how he talks, and take it in stride. As in, don't assume that because he sends you all this purple prose, that means his feelings are outsized or that he feels things about you that are not normal. Just assume that "you are the stars against the velvet dark of my soul" is like his equivalent of "sup".
2. Bring it up in a casual type manner. "It's so flattering when you send me these texts, but sometimes they're so intense that I feel a little uncomfortable." Talk it out, and potentially either ask him to stop or just get to the bottom of his style of expression or whatever seems to be the most apt after talking to him about it.
3. If it's such a problem that neither of the above solutions are workable for you, maybe it's just not meant to be.
posted by Sara C. at 7:01 PM on October 6, 2014
I think it's unfair that just because he's being sincere means you have to be accepting of something you find discomfiting. I'd bring it up again... Especially if it's having the opposite effect intended and you otherwise really like this guy.
posted by sm1tten at 7:08 PM on October 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by sm1tten at 7:08 PM on October 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I guess I'm a little confused: on the one hand you write this:
It's starry eyes plus experience; it's starry eyes plus boundaries.
But on the other hand, you write this:
his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed.
I'm not criticizing you or anything; I just mean to point out an apparent tension in how you describe his affection: you seem to see him as respecting your boundaries but also smothering you.
A few thoughts:
1. You don't mention much about your past here. If you have a history of unhealthy relationships with distant men you ended up chasing, maybe you just aren't used to someone pursing you. In that case, it would be on you to slowly allow yourself to become more comfortable with his affections. From your description, I don't really think this is the issue, but maybe this is part of it.
2. His background of abuse and the tendency to flood you with love suggests to me some insecure attachment thing going on. If that's the case, it might always feel this way to you because his need for closeness and intimacy may be boundless. Obviously therapy can help with that.
3. In my experience, relationships that begin with this level of intensity do not last very long or end up morphing into something not so great.
My answer to your specific question:
I doubt this can be resolved by finding just the right thing to say in response to his romantic professions of love and effusive complements. I don't think there is much else to say to (nice, non-offensive) complements except, "thank you" or some more romantic equivalent. Anything like, "cool it" or "don't complement me so much" is just going to backfire: either he will be wounded and pull away or he won't understand and won't stop.
Instead, I think you should do what anyone should do in the early months of an overly intense relationship: try to leave some room in your life for your friends, family, and other interests. That is, gently apply the breaks to the relationship more generally.
posted by girl flaneur at 7:08 PM on October 6, 2014 [15 favorites]
It's starry eyes plus experience; it's starry eyes plus boundaries.
But on the other hand, you write this:
his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed.
I'm not criticizing you or anything; I just mean to point out an apparent tension in how you describe his affection: you seem to see him as respecting your boundaries but also smothering you.
A few thoughts:
1. You don't mention much about your past here. If you have a history of unhealthy relationships with distant men you ended up chasing, maybe you just aren't used to someone pursing you. In that case, it would be on you to slowly allow yourself to become more comfortable with his affections. From your description, I don't really think this is the issue, but maybe this is part of it.
2. His background of abuse and the tendency to flood you with love suggests to me some insecure attachment thing going on. If that's the case, it might always feel this way to you because his need for closeness and intimacy may be boundless. Obviously therapy can help with that.
3. In my experience, relationships that begin with this level of intensity do not last very long or end up morphing into something not so great.
My answer to your specific question:
I doubt this can be resolved by finding just the right thing to say in response to his romantic professions of love and effusive complements. I don't think there is much else to say to (nice, non-offensive) complements except, "thank you" or some more romantic equivalent. Anything like, "cool it" or "don't complement me so much" is just going to backfire: either he will be wounded and pull away or he won't understand and won't stop.
Instead, I think you should do what anyone should do in the early months of an overly intense relationship: try to leave some room in your life for your friends, family, and other interests. That is, gently apply the breaks to the relationship more generally.
posted by girl flaneur at 7:08 PM on October 6, 2014 [15 favorites]
In general, someone who has been dating a partner for such a short time, or even known them for such a short time, doesn't know the partner well enough to be gushing in a real manner. The feelings may be sincere, but there's not enough knowledge and experience to back them up in any real way.
I tend to find this behavior to be a red flag. Not a stop-light, but an indication that this person is putting me on a pedestal I haven't earned, and may therefore react badly when I am human rather than divine.
I would say something like, "Hey, I realize you're being sincere, but it makes me uncomfortable for someone to be this forward this early in a relationship. I love it when you say these things when we're cuddling in bed, but I don't like it when I get long texts at work. Can you recalibrate a bit?"
You say he has boundaries, which is great. The thing to look for is whether he respects yours.
posted by jaguar at 7:16 PM on October 6, 2014 [18 favorites]
I tend to find this behavior to be a red flag. Not a stop-light, but an indication that this person is putting me on a pedestal I haven't earned, and may therefore react badly when I am human rather than divine.
I would say something like, "Hey, I realize you're being sincere, but it makes me uncomfortable for someone to be this forward this early in a relationship. I love it when you say these things when we're cuddling in bed, but I don't like it when I get long texts at work. Can you recalibrate a bit?"
You say he has boundaries, which is great. The thing to look for is whether he respects yours.
posted by jaguar at 7:16 PM on October 6, 2014 [18 favorites]
Best answer: I did try to give him this feedback recently ....... that I felt overwhelmed.......
...... He explained that he wanted to be true and say what was in his heart…that it would feel odd to him not to do that.
You set a boundary and he said "nope, not gonna honor that." Be careful.
posted by headnsouth at 7:24 PM on October 6, 2014 [43 favorites]
...... He explained that he wanted to be true and say what was in his heart…that it would feel odd to him not to do that.
You set a boundary and he said "nope, not gonna honor that." Be careful.
posted by headnsouth at 7:24 PM on October 6, 2014 [43 favorites]
Make him email these messages to you instead of text/voicemail you, and then save them for reading on your way home from work.
posted by lizbunny at 7:40 PM on October 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by lizbunny at 7:40 PM on October 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm with jaguar and headnsouth. Reading your post set off all kinds of alarm bells for me; the only relationship I had which began like this (intense and sincere declarations on his part, vague unease but desire to reciprocate on mine) developed into a very toxic relationship. Obviously YMMV, but I'd watch for boundary-crossing and other testing or pushing behavior, and I'd also prioritize keeping friends and family close, despite how easy it can be to get in couple-bubble.
posted by stellaluna at 7:53 PM on October 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by stellaluna at 7:53 PM on October 6, 2014 [7 favorites]
My last boyfriend had a history of family abuse and he was like this. The thing is, it can get really suffocating. I felt it was at an unhealthy level, like he was so wrapped up in the feeling he couldn't see anything else. He was obsessed - not in a stalker, creepy way but he didn't know how to handle all these feelings in an adult way and the result was that I felt he was blind to my faults. That scared me because eventually the honeymoon is over and you need to love the person, not just the way they make you feel.
I say this so you know the abuse almost certainly plays into this. He may not be a negative, depressed person because of all he's been through but he's still carrying the pain, just in a different way.
posted by Aranquis at 8:31 PM on October 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
I say this so you know the abuse almost certainly plays into this. He may not be a negative, depressed person because of all he's been through but he's still carrying the pain, just in a different way.
posted by Aranquis at 8:31 PM on October 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
To add - this person was never abusive in any sort of way, never boundary-pushed, always wanted to make sure I was comfortable - he just didn't know how to have a healthy attachment.
posted by Aranquis at 8:33 PM on October 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Aranquis at 8:33 PM on October 6, 2014 [6 favorites]
Whew, I'm glad someone else said it first, but this raised a bunch of red flags for me too. I totally understand limerence, but this is making you uncomfortable and you should listen to that feeling. You said slow down and he said "nope, not who I am"? He charmed you again, but you're still feeling put-off and not right. Listen to that feeling and take this at a pace you feel comfortable with. No matter what he says, he doesn't really love you, because he doesn't really know you, not in this short of timespan. Eventually the pedestal he's putting you on will come down.
posted by desjardins at 8:34 PM on October 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 8:34 PM on October 6, 2014 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I'm your guy. I do this because I was severely abused, and my only coping strategy was to give constantly, expect nothing, and be grateful for everything. He's being completely honest with you when he says his feelings are deep and sincere. You will have to respect that he is telling you the truth and that it is indeed possible for him to feel not only deep gratitude for every spark of positivity in his life, but also to feel that *not* expressing gratitude is actually an act of *dishonesty* or even potentially catastrophic.
HOWEVER. He almost definitely needs an amazing therapist and just doesn't know this yet. I destroyed one of the most important connections in my life because I couldn't stop expressing love, and she couldn't believe my love was 1) sincere, and 2) healthy. She was wrong about the first point, but right about the second. It *isn't* healthy to feel like one cannot *stop* expressing love and gratitude. Not being able to stop, switch, or limit modes of expression means that he very likely has deep (even overwhelming) anxiety over what might happen if he *doesn't* tell you how much he loves you. It is a very rare, but direct, consequence of extreme emotional abuse, and while he is lucky to have chosen this particular coping mechanism—one that allows him to be deeply loving of others, expressive, and open—it is still a coping mechanism.
Until he realizes the connection between his current treatment of you and his experience of abuse and erratic behavior from others, he won't be able to securely and happily set boundaries for the ways in which he expresses love. The most important person in my life had to *cut me out of her life* in order for me to seriously address what had happened to me, seek therapy, and begin to learn how to interact with people who haven't been raised in a terrifying vacuum where things could turn to shit at any second. When you are raised in that vacuum, it is almost impossible to believe that the world (much less your most important relationships) will stay stable long enough for you to go away and come back. And when you have decided to cope by being a wonderful and loving person, it is likewise impossible to believe that you *shouldn't* express love 24/7 because what if something horrible happens and you never get to see the person you love again?
I honestly don't know how you can help him get to a healthier point for self-reflection without severing your connection with him. I would like to believe it is possible, however, so I encourage you to be very gentle with him and to set clear boundaries for expression while reassuring him (if and when he meets them) that boundaries in this regard are not only adequate, but more ideal. It won't be an easy process, and it may fail entirely, but he needs to realize the difference between sincere emotion and compulsory expression, and to disentangle the latter from his behaviors toward you. If he doesn't have a therapist, you might gently see whether or not he is open to pursuing therapy in some form, and you might also use yourself as an example (i.e. pursue therapy yourself, if you aren't pursuing it already).
If he loves you, as it seems he does, he will want to work things out, and he will make a sincere effort. And if he has chosen to be this wonderful person despite the immense abuse he has suffered, it is probably because he believes in growth, change, and progressions toward health. Trust that first and see where it takes you. And if he shuts down or withdraws, then you may have to let him work out these issues on his own time, without you there as someone he can fixate on or move toward. I know that's probably not the answer you want to hear, so I wish you tremendous good luck and strength in working through this with him. Just know that he needs to hear about boundaries from you, and to learn to respect them, and if he can't do that yet, it's because of all he's suffered. Patterns formed through abuse take a very long time to break. Wishing you the very best—
posted by trainsurfing at 8:36 PM on October 6, 2014 [51 favorites]
HOWEVER. He almost definitely needs an amazing therapist and just doesn't know this yet. I destroyed one of the most important connections in my life because I couldn't stop expressing love, and she couldn't believe my love was 1) sincere, and 2) healthy. She was wrong about the first point, but right about the second. It *isn't* healthy to feel like one cannot *stop* expressing love and gratitude. Not being able to stop, switch, or limit modes of expression means that he very likely has deep (even overwhelming) anxiety over what might happen if he *doesn't* tell you how much he loves you. It is a very rare, but direct, consequence of extreme emotional abuse, and while he is lucky to have chosen this particular coping mechanism—one that allows him to be deeply loving of others, expressive, and open—it is still a coping mechanism.
Until he realizes the connection between his current treatment of you and his experience of abuse and erratic behavior from others, he won't be able to securely and happily set boundaries for the ways in which he expresses love. The most important person in my life had to *cut me out of her life* in order for me to seriously address what had happened to me, seek therapy, and begin to learn how to interact with people who haven't been raised in a terrifying vacuum where things could turn to shit at any second. When you are raised in that vacuum, it is almost impossible to believe that the world (much less your most important relationships) will stay stable long enough for you to go away and come back. And when you have decided to cope by being a wonderful and loving person, it is likewise impossible to believe that you *shouldn't* express love 24/7 because what if something horrible happens and you never get to see the person you love again?
I honestly don't know how you can help him get to a healthier point for self-reflection without severing your connection with him. I would like to believe it is possible, however, so I encourage you to be very gentle with him and to set clear boundaries for expression while reassuring him (if and when he meets them) that boundaries in this regard are not only adequate, but more ideal. It won't be an easy process, and it may fail entirely, but he needs to realize the difference between sincere emotion and compulsory expression, and to disentangle the latter from his behaviors toward you. If he doesn't have a therapist, you might gently see whether or not he is open to pursuing therapy in some form, and you might also use yourself as an example (i.e. pursue therapy yourself, if you aren't pursuing it already).
If he loves you, as it seems he does, he will want to work things out, and he will make a sincere effort. And if he has chosen to be this wonderful person despite the immense abuse he has suffered, it is probably because he believes in growth, change, and progressions toward health. Trust that first and see where it takes you. And if he shuts down or withdraws, then you may have to let him work out these issues on his own time, without you there as someone he can fixate on or move toward. I know that's probably not the answer you want to hear, so I wish you tremendous good luck and strength in working through this with him. Just know that he needs to hear about boundaries from you, and to learn to respect them, and if he can't do that yet, it's because of all he's suffered. Patterns formed through abuse take a very long time to break. Wishing you the very best—
posted by trainsurfing at 8:36 PM on October 6, 2014 [51 favorites]
Best answer: In response to some of the answers you've gotten, let me say, too, that he is almost definitely *not* blind to your faults. I think that is the most common misunderstanding/misreading of situations like this. It is not about blindness or setting a loved one on a pedestal—it is about a gratitude that contextualizes and forgives everything, because it recognizes that things could be so, SO much worse. I think, if you don't come from a background of fairly extreme abuse, it can be very hard to imagine approaching the world in this way. I also think this is what you mean when you say his starry eyes are those of experience.
posted by trainsurfing at 8:42 PM on October 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by trainsurfing at 8:42 PM on October 6, 2014 [13 favorites]
I have been abused; I work with abuse survivors. I do not believe that too-quick idealization is a studied experienced analysis, and I do believe that too-quick attachment is common to abuse survivors. I don't think it's malicious, but I do think it's potentially toxic.
posted by jaguar at 8:52 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by jaguar at 8:52 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Or, phrased differently: A romantic partner should not forgive all your faults. "Unconditional love" is a parent-child unequal dynamic. Adults should have dealbreakers (otherwise no partner would be justified in leaving an abusive relationship), and adults should be able to accept shades of gray with other adults, rather than assigning things to All Good or All Bad. A partner who thinks normal adult interaction is notable enough to be starry-eyed over is a partner who is likely to either let his partner walk all over him or idolize his partner so much that he walks all over her human desires, needs, and preferences. Neither is healthy.
posted by jaguar at 8:56 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 8:56 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
On a lighter note than most of these responses, you don't have to be in the same mood all the time. You like him saying these nice things 'in general' but sometimes he says them when you're not quite in the mood and then you don't know how to respond. It reminds me that it took a while for my partner and I to get used to the fact that when one of us was having a slow day at work and wanted to chat, the other one might be in the middle of a big project and be brusque or unable to respond. Not rejection, just being different people doing different things who can't see each other so have no way to align our behavior or expectations with the other person's mood.
In your case, he's thinking of you and feeling sappy and that inspires him to say nice things; you're busy with work and thinking impatient thoughts and feel interrupted by it. This isn't necessarily some intrinsic difference between you as people - just between what each of you is doing at that moment.
posted by Lady Li at 9:04 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
In your case, he's thinking of you and feeling sappy and that inspires him to say nice things; you're busy with work and thinking impatient thoughts and feel interrupted by it. This isn't necessarily some intrinsic difference between you as people - just between what each of you is doing at that moment.
posted by Lady Li at 9:04 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
He took my feedback as a request to be a little more superficial
Did he actually use that word -- "superficial"?
If so, it belies some deep-seated immaturity. That's someone resentful of and revolted by adulthood, which requires discretion and subtlety and shades of grey.
Superficial? That's something Holden Caulfield worries about, not an adult.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:33 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Did he actually use that word -- "superficial"?
If so, it belies some deep-seated immaturity. That's someone resentful of and revolted by adulthood, which requires discretion and subtlety and shades of grey.
Superficial? That's something Holden Caulfield worries about, not an adult.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:33 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Yup, nthing others who've mentioned attachment orientation/style. It sounds like he has an anxious/preoccupied attachment orientation. You might look into this about yourself too--read a bit about it, take an online quiz, and figure out where you are on the spectrum.
posted by bennett being thrown at 9:52 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by bennett being thrown at 9:52 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
You might just need more alone time, that's all. Are you an introvert?
posted by Ironmouth at 10:30 PM on October 6, 2014
posted by Ironmouth at 10:30 PM on October 6, 2014
Like I'm not sure he knows me well enough for that yet,
You are right. He doesn't.
or that I can't believe he could feel that strongly.
He does feel strongly. But you need to understand: his strong feelings are not about you. How could they be? He doesn't know you! His strong feelings are about him-- his past, his projections, his emotional programming (yes probably his abuse, too).
I find myself bouncing between completely adoring him and feeling turned off by this avalanche of love from him; like his rambly messages are just *too much.*
Trust your guy. It is too much for you.
I would steer clear of this guy. Mostly one-way-gushing is not a healthy place to be in a relationship. And as others mentioned, he's not respecting your boundaries. You may feel flattered by his attention, but don't be. Abused and/or abusive people tend to come on super strong and all flattery-like in the early stages. It's not about you. You're still mostly a stranger to him. You probably should keep it that way,
posted by Gray Skies at 11:10 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
You are right. He doesn't.
or that I can't believe he could feel that strongly.
He does feel strongly. But you need to understand: his strong feelings are not about you. How could they be? He doesn't know you! His strong feelings are about him-- his past, his projections, his emotional programming (yes probably his abuse, too).
I find myself bouncing between completely adoring him and feeling turned off by this avalanche of love from him; like his rambly messages are just *too much.*
Trust your guy. It is too much for you.
I would steer clear of this guy. Mostly one-way-gushing is not a healthy place to be in a relationship. And as others mentioned, he's not respecting your boundaries. You may feel flattered by his attention, but don't be. Abused and/or abusive people tend to come on super strong and all flattery-like in the early stages. It's not about you. You're still mostly a stranger to him. You probably should keep it that way,
posted by Gray Skies at 11:10 PM on October 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
Sorry: meant trust your *gut*!
posted by Gray Skies at 11:39 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Gray Skies at 11:39 PM on October 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have NO IDEA if this is what's happening with your guy, but let me tell you my story:
I was in a situation just like yours. Great new relationship, fun limerance stage, and he LOVED to text and call and email and send ecards about how much he loved me. Dude waxed poetically at least four times a day. I was so special, I was so wonderful, etc.
And like you, I was a little uncomfortable with it. I don't think I actually trusted the depth of his purported feelings. I mean, of course I'm wonderful and all that, but he really didn't know me THAT well. I recognized it as limerance, found it overbearing, but I never asked him to tone it down because I thought it would hurt his feelings. After all, wasn't it great that I was with someone who was an emotional waterfall? Someone who could say how happy he was and how awesome he thought I was?
And yet, I continued to have that inner squicky feeling. Despite that, we got engaged and he moved in with me.
And the waterfall completely dried up. No more texts, calls, cards, nothing. It was like once we became established, he had nothing sweet to say to me.
Hey, in no way can I predict this is what's happening with you, but I can speak from experience that there are people who LOVE TO BE IN LOVE, but once that initial spark wears off, it becomes clear that all they want is that whole romantic shouting from the rooftops thing. They don't actually have any interest in being in a relationship. They want the pretty wrapping, not what's inside the box.
Based on what you said and my own experience, I wouldn't keep dating this guy. Sorry.
posted by kinetic at 3:30 AM on October 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
I was in a situation just like yours. Great new relationship, fun limerance stage, and he LOVED to text and call and email and send ecards about how much he loved me. Dude waxed poetically at least four times a day. I was so special, I was so wonderful, etc.
And like you, I was a little uncomfortable with it. I don't think I actually trusted the depth of his purported feelings. I mean, of course I'm wonderful and all that, but he really didn't know me THAT well. I recognized it as limerance, found it overbearing, but I never asked him to tone it down because I thought it would hurt his feelings. After all, wasn't it great that I was with someone who was an emotional waterfall? Someone who could say how happy he was and how awesome he thought I was?
And yet, I continued to have that inner squicky feeling. Despite that, we got engaged and he moved in with me.
And the waterfall completely dried up. No more texts, calls, cards, nothing. It was like once we became established, he had nothing sweet to say to me.
Hey, in no way can I predict this is what's happening with you, but I can speak from experience that there are people who LOVE TO BE IN LOVE, but once that initial spark wears off, it becomes clear that all they want is that whole romantic shouting from the rooftops thing. They don't actually have any interest in being in a relationship. They want the pretty wrapping, not what's inside the box.
Based on what you said and my own experience, I wouldn't keep dating this guy. Sorry.
posted by kinetic at 3:30 AM on October 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
He's showing you how he wants to be treated; you're showing him how you want to be treated. Not his fault, not your fault, but they're different. Any anxiety he's feeling about that difference is being expressed as a heartfelt declaration of undying love ... which you might see as either (1) positive, (2) a 'positive' manifestation of abusive behaviour, or (3) you just might see it as abuse, period.
I'm not in your shoes, but worth thinking through which of these fits. I'm leaning (2), hence your uneasiness: my one-man anecdata is that these situations tend not to end well. If you can't help him tone things down or aim the firehose of excess anxiety at a therapist - and so move your relationship toward (1) - then IMO better to leave while the stakes are still low. Best of luck.
posted by bookie at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2014
I'm not in your shoes, but worth thinking through which of these fits. I'm leaning (2), hence your uneasiness: my one-man anecdata is that these situations tend not to end well. If you can't help him tone things down or aim the firehose of excess anxiety at a therapist - and so move your relationship toward (1) - then IMO better to leave while the stakes are still low. Best of luck.
posted by bookie at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2014
In my experience, guys like this turn on a dime.
First, they go overboard trying to "win" you -- whether that means getting you in bed, getting you to be their girlfriend, getting you to fall in love, getting you to let them move in, getting a ring around your finger, whatever.
Then, once they know they've "won" you, they switch. They turn incredibly cold -- either pushing you very hard and testing your boundaries (i.e., seeing what it'll take for you to dump them), or flat out leaving you.
Personally, I think that your boyfriend is raising some red flags. In your place, I would be massively uncomfortable with this OTT, weirdly impersonal, and boundary-pushing version of "sweet talk" and would try to end this before the switch happens and he turns cold/mean. Of course YMMV.
posted by rue72 at 8:27 AM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
First, they go overboard trying to "win" you -- whether that means getting you in bed, getting you to be their girlfriend, getting you to fall in love, getting you to let them move in, getting a ring around your finger, whatever.
Then, once they know they've "won" you, they switch. They turn incredibly cold -- either pushing you very hard and testing your boundaries (i.e., seeing what it'll take for you to dump them), or flat out leaving you.
Personally, I think that your boyfriend is raising some red flags. In your place, I would be massively uncomfortable with this OTT, weirdly impersonal, and boundary-pushing version of "sweet talk" and would try to end this before the switch happens and he turns cold/mean. Of course YMMV.
posted by rue72 at 8:27 AM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't know this situation enough to talk about the past abuse or coping mechanisms or red flags, but I do know a little about communicating... about communication.
If you expressed your discomfort like this...
"his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed. I requested a light dusting of snowflakes instead. I'm a dancer, and I tried to explain the dance analogy - that a little bit of space/tension is what makes it extra sexy, it's what allows for back and forth."
... then I would been a little lost in his position. What's with the analogies and metaphor? Those seem to have gotten in your way a little.
Now, that doesn't mean you can't be nice about it. Why don't you try again, straightforwardly? Put it in terms of you being at work and in a totally different mindset, and that your communication style is happiest when it's quality over quantity. And be ready to come to a compromise.
Try something like this (with little-to-no flowery language):
"Hey, handsome. I adore, adore, adore your kindness and compliments. I absolutely do not want them to stop. Sometimes at work I get a little distracted, excited, and verklempt because of your texts. Again - please keep doing it, but is there a way we could limit the "during the day" stuff? I don't want you to feel stifled, but I also know that my communication style needs a bit more breathing room. Maybe 2 texts a day? Are you okay with that? Would you like it better with 3?"
But yeah—I've found direct but kind communication to be way more effective than writing semi-poems about it. (I used to do it too.)
posted by functionequalsform at 10:08 AM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you expressed your discomfort like this...
"his earnest words felt like an avalanche of lovely warm heartfelt things but that I felt overwhelmed. I requested a light dusting of snowflakes instead. I'm a dancer, and I tried to explain the dance analogy - that a little bit of space/tension is what makes it extra sexy, it's what allows for back and forth."
... then I would been a little lost in his position. What's with the analogies and metaphor? Those seem to have gotten in your way a little.
Now, that doesn't mean you can't be nice about it. Why don't you try again, straightforwardly? Put it in terms of you being at work and in a totally different mindset, and that your communication style is happiest when it's quality over quantity. And be ready to come to a compromise.
Try something like this (with little-to-no flowery language):
"Hey, handsome. I adore, adore, adore your kindness and compliments. I absolutely do not want them to stop. Sometimes at work I get a little distracted, excited, and verklempt because of your texts. Again - please keep doing it, but is there a way we could limit the "during the day" stuff? I don't want you to feel stifled, but I also know that my communication style needs a bit more breathing room. Maybe 2 texts a day? Are you okay with that? Would you like it better with 3?"
But yeah—I've found direct but kind communication to be way more effective than writing semi-poems about it. (I used to do it too.)
posted by functionequalsform at 10:08 AM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is a hard one to call.
Being way over the top in one's affections early in a relationship is one of the textbook red flags that your partner may be abusive. Many abusers behave this way to 'secure' the love of their partner, and once they feel like they have it, the loving affection will turn into cold judgement, anger and isolation, and eventually emotional/physical abuse. The fact that he ignored the boundary you tried to set is alarming in this regard.
On the other hand, he appears to be this way about everything, not just you. Abuse starts by trying to make you feel like you're the most special and important thing in the world, not that everything is special and important.
I think you're right to set some boundaries here. It's a bit alarming that he doesn't seem to be able to stop, or even tone it down based on the situation. If he can't respect the boundaries you set, he certainly isn't going to respect you in other important ways. I'd try the boundary thing again, being more firm about it and talking about how it's something you really need, and seeing how it goes. If he continues to try to manipulate you into disregarding your own needs, MAJOR red flag. If he is able to back off successfully and respect your boundaries, that's a really good sign, just keep your eyes open.
posted by zug at 10:32 AM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Being way over the top in one's affections early in a relationship is one of the textbook red flags that your partner may be abusive. Many abusers behave this way to 'secure' the love of their partner, and once they feel like they have it, the loving affection will turn into cold judgement, anger and isolation, and eventually emotional/physical abuse. The fact that he ignored the boundary you tried to set is alarming in this regard.
On the other hand, he appears to be this way about everything, not just you. Abuse starts by trying to make you feel like you're the most special and important thing in the world, not that everything is special and important.
I think you're right to set some boundaries here. It's a bit alarming that he doesn't seem to be able to stop, or even tone it down based on the situation. If he can't respect the boundaries you set, he certainly isn't going to respect you in other important ways. I'd try the boundary thing again, being more firm about it and talking about how it's something you really need, and seeing how it goes. If he continues to try to manipulate you into disregarding your own needs, MAJOR red flag. If he is able to back off successfully and respect your boundaries, that's a really good sign, just keep your eyes open.
posted by zug at 10:32 AM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tell him you enjoy that stuff when the two of you are together, in person. Ask if he would save it till you're with him. Say that for you, texting, texting feels _______ (however it feels to you), and you'd love to hear his sentiments out loud, when you're not working. If you ask him not to send affectionate messages while you're at work and you give a reason, that's a reasonable request. (It's not a boundary, because boundaries you set should be for yourself.)
He says it would feel weird not to do it. If you feel sure you've communicated clearly that it makes you uncomfortable, then you need to keep talking very directly about a solution. "I feel uncomfortable receiving those messages during the workday. You'd feel uncomfortable not sending them. I know there's got to be a solution we can both feel okay about." Essentially, you're asking him to ally with you to figure out what to do. Then stay quiet and give him time to get his thoughts together. If you give him a chance, he may see that it would be generous on his part to do as you ask.
You may need to set boundaries like this: "I can't or won't read certain texts or have certain conversations when I'm at work. If you send me one, I'll save it for later." You can't make him stop, but you can change what you do.
If someone (not only him) gets mad, changes the subject, raises unreasonable objections -- when you're saying what you need -- stay calm and keep coming back to your original statement.
posted by wryly at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2014
He says it would feel weird not to do it. If you feel sure you've communicated clearly that it makes you uncomfortable, then you need to keep talking very directly about a solution. "I feel uncomfortable receiving those messages during the workday. You'd feel uncomfortable not sending them. I know there's got to be a solution we can both feel okay about." Essentially, you're asking him to ally with you to figure out what to do. Then stay quiet and give him time to get his thoughts together. If you give him a chance, he may see that it would be generous on his part to do as you ask.
You may need to set boundaries like this: "I can't or won't read certain texts or have certain conversations when I'm at work. If you send me one, I'll save it for later." You can't make him stop, but you can change what you do.
If someone (not only him) gets mad, changes the subject, raises unreasonable objections -- when you're saying what you need -- stay calm and keep coming back to your original statement.
posted by wryly at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2014
Hmm. I feel like you're saying that given this guy's extensive trauma history, he's remarkably not making the entire relationship about him and his needs-- assuming someone with that kind of background would be a sadist or emotionally withholding-- but when you get down to describing things, he kind of is still making this all about him. He's blowing up your phone and distracting you at work with intense emotional declarations, and when you asked him to cut it out, he flat out told you that his immediate emotional gratification was more important to him than your being able to do your job. If I were you, I'd sit with that for a little while.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:11 PM on October 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 1:11 PM on October 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
Take things slow :-) Take your time to let everything play out in due time. What sort of lovey dovey super intimate things is he saying? If it's like along the lines of "I love you and I will love you forever and ever" or "I have found my missing piece and my life is now complete" after two weeks I would proceed with extreme caution, cause that's not really normal. Gazing into each other's eyes and smiling and saying, "I like you! A lot!" is fine. If it doesn't feel quite right, it's probably not quite right.
posted by mermily at 2:05 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by mermily at 2:05 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Nah, don't ask him to tone it down. Train yourself to just do it back to him. Become one of THOSE disgusting couples. It's fun.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:35 PM on October 6, 2014 [14 favorites]