Big city vs. smaller city
October 3, 2014 2:06 PM Subscribe
I currently live in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I'm considering moving to a larger city, most likely Chicago. What are the differences between living in a smaller city and a larger city?
A few obvious things come to mind: cost of living, for example. I also figure I would want to ditch my car if I move to Chicago. But then, how much does transportation cost you? How much do you spend on public transportation a month? Cabs? How is every day life different - noise levels? Grocery shopping? Walking my dog? Can I still be an introvert in a big city?
Probably relevant: my job allows me the flexibility to live anywhere, so you can safely assume I'd have a job if I moved there.
A few obvious things come to mind: cost of living, for example. I also figure I would want to ditch my car if I move to Chicago. But then, how much does transportation cost you? How much do you spend on public transportation a month? Cabs? How is every day life different - noise levels? Grocery shopping? Walking my dog? Can I still be an introvert in a big city?
Probably relevant: my job allows me the flexibility to live anywhere, so you can safely assume I'd have a job if I moved there.
I can answer some of these questions with Chicago specifics. A monthly train/bus pass costs $100/mo. If your employer participates in commuter benefit programs, that can be pre-tax, so it ends up costing you 25-30% less out of pocket. Chicago has a good transit system, but it's not great. The L is built to get you from the neighborhoods to the Loop. If you want to go cross-town, it can be difficult. That's usually when the cabs come in.
Dog walking is much easier in the city, because literally every street has a sidewalk. Every. One. And there's a strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street, which your dog will love.
Grocery shopping without a car is more challenging, but you get into the habit of not doing a week's worth of shopping at once. If you only have a bag or two, it's not as tough.
Being in a big city is even easier to be an introvert in, since you're much more anonymous.
posted by hwyengr at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Dog walking is much easier in the city, because literally every street has a sidewalk. Every. One. And there's a strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street, which your dog will love.
Grocery shopping without a car is more challenging, but you get into the habit of not doing a week's worth of shopping at once. If you only have a bag or two, it's not as tough.
Being in a big city is even easier to be an introvert in, since you're much more anonymous.
posted by hwyengr at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is all going to vary drastically depending on which specific large city you're talking about. You might get better results by asking specific questions about life in Chicago.
Cost of living, rent, how often you'll find yourself taking taxis, etc. is impossible to answer without being specific to one particular city.
Could you rent an AirBnB in a Chicago neighborhood to find out for yourself whether the noise levels, rhythms of life, etc. work for you?
Some specifics I feel like I could maybe answer, having lived in a variety of urban landscapes:
- Noise, yes. Though I suppose this would depend on how dense the area you currently live in is and how that compares to the specific Chicago neighborhood you moved to.
- Dog walking: you might want to start training your dog to poop on concrete right now.
- Grocery shopping: Heavily dependent on the specific neighborhood you live in. In Fort Greene, Brooklyn, groceries were a two block walk away. In gritty industrial Queens, I lived in a serious food desert, except I happened to live next door to the one supermarket in the area. In Los Angeles, I live a 15 minute drive from a supermarket (though there are ethnic groceries I could technically walk to if necessary), but a close friend in a different neighborhood lives as close to groceries as I did in Brooklyn. When apartment hunting, I would definitely keep an eye on proximity to grocery shopping. (And potentially a game plan for how to get there and how to get all your food home.) When I lived in NYC, the need to physically carry groceries home meant a very specific calculus of how to shop. Moving to a more car-centric place where I can literally buy ANYTHING in the store and never have to worry about carrying it home is a game-changer for me after a dozen years in a dense urban landscape.
- Big cities are the best place to be an introvert, because nobody will ever try to talk to you.
posted by Sara C. at 2:56 PM on October 3, 2014
Cost of living, rent, how often you'll find yourself taking taxis, etc. is impossible to answer without being specific to one particular city.
Could you rent an AirBnB in a Chicago neighborhood to find out for yourself whether the noise levels, rhythms of life, etc. work for you?
Some specifics I feel like I could maybe answer, having lived in a variety of urban landscapes:
- Noise, yes. Though I suppose this would depend on how dense the area you currently live in is and how that compares to the specific Chicago neighborhood you moved to.
- Dog walking: you might want to start training your dog to poop on concrete right now.
- Grocery shopping: Heavily dependent on the specific neighborhood you live in. In Fort Greene, Brooklyn, groceries were a two block walk away. In gritty industrial Queens, I lived in a serious food desert, except I happened to live next door to the one supermarket in the area. In Los Angeles, I live a 15 minute drive from a supermarket (though there are ethnic groceries I could technically walk to if necessary), but a close friend in a different neighborhood lives as close to groceries as I did in Brooklyn. When apartment hunting, I would definitely keep an eye on proximity to grocery shopping. (And potentially a game plan for how to get there and how to get all your food home.) When I lived in NYC, the need to physically carry groceries home meant a very specific calculus of how to shop. Moving to a more car-centric place where I can literally buy ANYTHING in the store and never have to worry about carrying it home is a game-changer for me after a dozen years in a dense urban landscape.
- Big cities are the best place to be an introvert, because nobody will ever try to talk to you.
posted by Sara C. at 2:56 PM on October 3, 2014
I know many people who have no trouble being introverts in a big city. I find that people in big cities are less inclined to engage strangers in chit chat than are people in small towns. I find being alone in crowded places in the city somewhat soothing--you can realize you're not alone and isolated without ever having to actually engage with the people around you.
A monthly unlimited CTA pass is up to $100. The CTA has issues, but I've been in Chicago without a car for 15 years and never regretted it. The L is great for some neighborhoods and for getting into-and-out-of the central business district but not so great getting from one neighborhood to the other. You will have to get over "fear of buses" to get around Chicago on the CTA. Buses are fine and many buses run into the wee hours of the night. Chicago bus routes have stops very close together indeed, so if you miss your stop or get confused about where you're going, you've pretty much not gone very far afield.
You can take the commuter trains to the suburbs (the racetrack! Ravinia Music fest! the zoo!), Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan with a little scheduling effort, and a reasonable fare.
Cab fares are: $2.25 for the first 1/9th mile or less; $0.20 for each additional 1/9th of a mile; $2.00 every 6 minutes for waiting time ($20 / hr). There is an extra $1.00 charge for for the first additional passenger over the age of 12 and under the age of 65, and $.50 for each additional passenger after that. Most cab trips I take are under $8; the second most common cab fare I run up is under $16 (both with tip).
Even if you budget $100/ month for cabs, you're way ahead of car ownership ($100/year for plates; $85-150/ year for city stickers--$200 ticket if you're caught without it. Parking meters range from $2/hour to $6.50/hour. Add into that car payments, insurance, and renting a full time parking space, red light tickets . . . )
Most grocery stores and other retailers will deliver your purchases (sometimes free, sometimes not) but I don't have any issues carrying my groceries home from the store. I go to the grocery store a little more often than I would if I was carrying my groceries in a car, but not every day. I usually use my bike for grocery shopping, but I have also used a little wheeled cart for groceries. It's a pretty common sight in my neighborhood.
Chicago has several dog parks and dog beaches. I have not owned a dog in the city since the mid-90's but it definitely influenced where I lived (both neighborhood and apartment). The biggest problem I had owning a dog in the city was having to get up and put on clothes and boots to take him out first thing in the morning in February. When he and I were still living with my parents, all I had to do was let him out into the backyard.
Chicago is often described as a "city of neighborhoods" and you'll find that everything (ease of CTA, ability to get a cab, noise, rent, parking, cost of restaurants, ease of walking to and from necessary shopping) depends heavily on which neighborhood you're in.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
A monthly unlimited CTA pass is up to $100. The CTA has issues, but I've been in Chicago without a car for 15 years and never regretted it. The L is great for some neighborhoods and for getting into-and-out-of the central business district but not so great getting from one neighborhood to the other. You will have to get over "fear of buses" to get around Chicago on the CTA. Buses are fine and many buses run into the wee hours of the night. Chicago bus routes have stops very close together indeed, so if you miss your stop or get confused about where you're going, you've pretty much not gone very far afield.
You can take the commuter trains to the suburbs (the racetrack! Ravinia Music fest! the zoo!), Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan with a little scheduling effort, and a reasonable fare.
Cab fares are: $2.25 for the first 1/9th mile or less; $0.20 for each additional 1/9th of a mile; $2.00 every 6 minutes for waiting time ($20 / hr). There is an extra $1.00 charge for for the first additional passenger over the age of 12 and under the age of 65, and $.50 for each additional passenger after that. Most cab trips I take are under $8; the second most common cab fare I run up is under $16 (both with tip).
Even if you budget $100/ month for cabs, you're way ahead of car ownership ($100/year for plates; $85-150/ year for city stickers--$200 ticket if you're caught without it. Parking meters range from $2/hour to $6.50/hour. Add into that car payments, insurance, and renting a full time parking space, red light tickets . . . )
Most grocery stores and other retailers will deliver your purchases (sometimes free, sometimes not) but I don't have any issues carrying my groceries home from the store. I go to the grocery store a little more often than I would if I was carrying my groceries in a car, but not every day. I usually use my bike for grocery shopping, but I have also used a little wheeled cart for groceries. It's a pretty common sight in my neighborhood.
Chicago has several dog parks and dog beaches. I have not owned a dog in the city since the mid-90's but it definitely influenced where I lived (both neighborhood and apartment). The biggest problem I had owning a dog in the city was having to get up and put on clothes and boots to take him out first thing in the morning in February. When he and I were still living with my parents, all I had to do was let him out into the backyard.
Chicago is often described as a "city of neighborhoods" and you'll find that everything (ease of CTA, ability to get a cab, noise, rent, parking, cost of restaurants, ease of walking to and from necessary shopping) depends heavily on which neighborhood you're in.
posted by crush-onastick at 3:00 PM on October 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
Chicagoan here. Transportation is probably the biggest change that will impact you on a daily basis. You can't just hop in the car and drive 10 minutes to get wherever. You can learn the CTA pretty quickly, but sometimes you have to go to inconvenient places that are just hard to get to. Like if you want to go diagonally from Lakeview to Wicker Park, it's gonna be two buses or train + bus, and it's just going to take a long time even though it's a short distance. But you get used to it. You leave ridiculously early when you need to get somewhere important. You bring something to read. You learn what your favorite seats are on the different vehicles. And on the bright side, you never have to worry about a designated driver. Or the price of gas. Or parking. Or any of that car stuff. A monthly CTA pass is $100, but if you don't commute daily, you can get by on less. I hardly ever take cabs, but when I do, I'm usually surprised at how reasonable they are. You'll probably want to get a bike, because that can really expand your radius of things that are convenient to get to.
Relatedly, you will experience winter in a whole new way. Snow is fine when the only way it affects you is that you have to drive slower, and maybe scrape your windshield. But there will be times in February when you just want to walk down the fucking sidewalk already, not trudge through grime-encrusted glaciers. And cold nights when you want to go home and the bus just cannot come fast enough.
But I think the harder transportation issue arises when you ever want to leave the city. Yes, there's Metra, but that leaves a lot of holes. Even if you just want to go to Ikea or something, you have to use Zipcar, rent a car, or borrow a car if you're lucky with friends.
Grocery shopping can indeed be a challenge. We rarely buy soda or juice anymore because we just don't feel like carrying it. But again, you get used to it. Distance to nearest grocery store will be an important factor when you look for apartments. You can also get Peapod delivery.
And yes, from this introvert's experience, you can absolutely be an introvert in the big city!
posted by gueneverey at 3:46 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Relatedly, you will experience winter in a whole new way. Snow is fine when the only way it affects you is that you have to drive slower, and maybe scrape your windshield. But there will be times in February when you just want to walk down the fucking sidewalk already, not trudge through grime-encrusted glaciers. And cold nights when you want to go home and the bus just cannot come fast enough.
But I think the harder transportation issue arises when you ever want to leave the city. Yes, there's Metra, but that leaves a lot of holes. Even if you just want to go to Ikea or something, you have to use Zipcar, rent a car, or borrow a car if you're lucky with friends.
Grocery shopping can indeed be a challenge. We rarely buy soda or juice anymore because we just don't feel like carrying it. But again, you get used to it. Distance to nearest grocery store will be an important factor when you look for apartments. You can also get Peapod delivery.
And yes, from this introvert's experience, you can absolutely be an introvert in the big city!
posted by gueneverey at 3:46 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Crush-onastick is right: Chicago is a city of neighborhoods. If you're considering a move to Chicago, you might see about renting a short-stay apartment for a month (if you can find one) in a neighborhood that looks interesting, to experience day-to-day life.
One thing you'll find moving from GR to any big city (except maybe Detroit) is that rents are going to be much higher than what you're used to. My wife is from GR and we go back there every year. Her father is a landlord, so I know what the rental market is like. It's very cheap. My sister-in-law, who lives in San Francisco, has a 2 bedroom apartment that would go for $3000 in the current market (she pays less, because of rent control). To compare, Craigslist has a 6-bedroom house in Heritage Hill, a few houses from my in-laws' house, listed for $2000 (although I imagine that heating is extra). Chicago isn't as bad as SF, but it's a lot more expensive than GR.
posted by brianogilvie at 3:51 PM on October 3, 2014
One thing you'll find moving from GR to any big city (except maybe Detroit) is that rents are going to be much higher than what you're used to. My wife is from GR and we go back there every year. Her father is a landlord, so I know what the rental market is like. It's very cheap. My sister-in-law, who lives in San Francisco, has a 2 bedroom apartment that would go for $3000 in the current market (she pays less, because of rent control). To compare, Craigslist has a 6-bedroom house in Heritage Hill, a few houses from my in-laws' house, listed for $2000 (although I imagine that heating is extra). Chicago isn't as bad as SF, but it's a lot more expensive than GR.
posted by brianogilvie at 3:51 PM on October 3, 2014
It's been a while (almost ten years !!) since I lived in Chicago, but comparing and contrasting that to the small cities I've lived in...
Transportation-- it is SO nice to not worry about a car. So nice. No maintenance, no registration, no worries about parking, no designated driver, massive decrease in surprise big expenses. The CTA is mostly pretty good. It will definitely take you longer than driving would to get any given place, but you can read and don't have to worry about traffic, so it's a more pleasant (for me anyway) form of transportation. There's also always zipcar.
There are lots of choices for neighborhoods in Chicago, and some of them feel downright suburban, and probably wouldn't be much louder than Grand Rapids. Being an introvert is actually easier imho in a big city. You can go to the grocery store and you won't run into anyone you know. No one really cares about interacting with you if you don't want to (which can be a bit lonely).
In general, some things are a little more of a hassle in a city (going to the DMV, for instance, or trying to go to a popular restaurant without a reservation), but lots of things are less of a hassle too (buying a random obscure spice for a recipe, finding people who are into your obscure interest).
posted by geegollygosh at 4:27 PM on October 3, 2014
Transportation-- it is SO nice to not worry about a car. So nice. No maintenance, no registration, no worries about parking, no designated driver, massive decrease in surprise big expenses. The CTA is mostly pretty good. It will definitely take you longer than driving would to get any given place, but you can read and don't have to worry about traffic, so it's a more pleasant (for me anyway) form of transportation. There's also always zipcar.
There are lots of choices for neighborhoods in Chicago, and some of them feel downright suburban, and probably wouldn't be much louder than Grand Rapids. Being an introvert is actually easier imho in a big city. You can go to the grocery store and you won't run into anyone you know. No one really cares about interacting with you if you don't want to (which can be a bit lonely).
In general, some things are a little more of a hassle in a city (going to the DMV, for instance, or trying to go to a popular restaurant without a reservation), but lots of things are less of a hassle too (buying a random obscure spice for a recipe, finding people who are into your obscure interest).
posted by geegollygosh at 4:27 PM on October 3, 2014
I haven't spent a ton of time in Chicago and never in Grand Rapids. The only thing I can compare is New Orleans vs San Francisco. Moving to SF I found:
- A ton more traffic, and driving is just more difficult/annoying
- A lot slower to get anywhere
- More people living in apartments
- Much better public transportation and its more widely used
- Much more annoying to go shopping at chain store because either we don't have them in the City or they're in tourist-heavy downtown and I just can't even
- It took my dogs about a week to figure out how to do their business on concrete, then it was fine
- A lot more delivery/on-demand options (that's partly a function of living in the center of Startup-Land but also a big, dense city is the perfect place to pilot these things)
posted by radioamy at 5:09 PM on October 3, 2014
- A ton more traffic, and driving is just more difficult/annoying
- A lot slower to get anywhere
- More people living in apartments
- Much better public transportation and its more widely used
- Much more annoying to go shopping at chain store because either we don't have them in the City or they're in tourist-heavy downtown and I just can't even
- It took my dogs about a week to figure out how to do their business on concrete, then it was fine
- A lot more delivery/on-demand options (that's partly a function of living in the center of Startup-Land but also a big, dense city is the perfect place to pilot these things)
posted by radioamy at 5:09 PM on October 3, 2014
I'm an introvert living in a small, dense, walkable suburb of NYC. It's totally doable. In fact, I think it's even easier. Want food but don't even want to talk on the phone to someone? Grubhub and Seamless. Want to go for a walk outside with your pet but don't want to make small talk? That's OK, no one wants to talk to you either, enjoy your walk!
It's super easy to be alone when surrounded by tons of other people. No one cares about you, no one wants to talk to you. You just blend in; you're part of the giant background of everyone else's life. In fact, I've heard so many people say it's harder to make friends and meet people in large cities like NY. (To which I say, Meetup.)
posted by Brian Puccio at 5:50 PM on October 3, 2014
It's super easy to be alone when surrounded by tons of other people. No one cares about you, no one wants to talk to you. You just blend in; you're part of the giant background of everyone else's life. In fact, I've heard so many people say it's harder to make friends and meet people in large cities like NY. (To which I say, Meetup.)
posted by Brian Puccio at 5:50 PM on October 3, 2014
In a city like Chicago, walking to where you want to go is easy. I'm paying $200 a month for a car, plus another $200 a month for insurance, plus gas. I'd gladly pay for a CTA pass. In a big city, there are people everywhere and it's bustling. There's noise (I guess if you live close to ground level) but the city feels alive and vibrant. That's what makes it great.
I'm an introvert, and I love big cities. You are surrounded by people, but you don't need to deal with anyone if you choose not to.
I've lived in several cities and Chicago was my favorite one. The architecture is beautiful. I loved not needing a car. I could get everywhere I wanted by walking or by bus (because I lived near the Loop). Trains are easy too. Grocery shopping can be annoying without a car, but I had a grocery store in my building. Try to find an apartment with a grocery store that is pretty nearby. Lugging groceries on a bus isn't that fun.
And the thing about Chicago is, it's not as crowded or as frustrating as other big cities. Chicago is a huge city that feels pretty comfortable in size. There is enough housing for people to pay reasonable rent, and there is enough room on the roads and sidewalks for commuting to not be crazy. Chicago seems to be just the right physical size for the people.
Moving is one of those big life decisions that is easy to undo. I'd give it a shot. Chicago is wonderful.
posted by AppleTurnover at 6:13 PM on October 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm an introvert, and I love big cities. You are surrounded by people, but you don't need to deal with anyone if you choose not to.
I've lived in several cities and Chicago was my favorite one. The architecture is beautiful. I loved not needing a car. I could get everywhere I wanted by walking or by bus (because I lived near the Loop). Trains are easy too. Grocery shopping can be annoying without a car, but I had a grocery store in my building. Try to find an apartment with a grocery store that is pretty nearby. Lugging groceries on a bus isn't that fun.
And the thing about Chicago is, it's not as crowded or as frustrating as other big cities. Chicago is a huge city that feels pretty comfortable in size. There is enough housing for people to pay reasonable rent, and there is enough room on the roads and sidewalks for commuting to not be crazy. Chicago seems to be just the right physical size for the people.
Moving is one of those big life decisions that is easy to undo. I'd give it a shot. Chicago is wonderful.
posted by AppleTurnover at 6:13 PM on October 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
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This verges on an impossibly broad question.
How much does transportation cost you?
How much does it cost you in a small city? Do you drive 5 miles to work or 50? It largely depends on the transportation infrastructure of the Big City and whether you live in an area well-served by public transportation. Not surprisingly, in many cities, all things being equal, its more expensive to live close to public transportation than away from it.
Cabs?
Cabs are expensive.
How is every day life different - noise levels?
It runs the gamut, from very loud to very quiet, depending on the neighborhood and your location in it.
Grocery shopping?
It runs the gamut, depending on your neighborhood and income.
Walking my dog?
All big cities have sidewalks. Some have parks, big or small, depending on the city, the neighborhood, and your location in it.
Can I still be an introvert in a big city?
Yes.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:43 PM on October 3, 2014