Incompatible sex drives the norm for post children heterosexual couple?
October 1, 2014 1:34 AM Subscribe
I wanted to make that more of a question not a statement but ran out of characters.
The question is based on every close female friend that's a mother I have I realise :( talking about marital sex with terms such as it 'being the least important part of the relationship' etc. It is almost spoken about like it is something to be 'put up with'. This makes me feel bad for both parties and about permanent relationships in general.
So these women are in their 30's or early 40's, some (but not all) with busy professional careers. They have 1 - 3 kids (exhausting I am sure). This ofcourse isn't the biggest sample in the world (and may not be representative), but I have heard female work colleagues speak in very similar ways. I also seem to have 'become' the fantasy figure (not sure how) for a married man (I am single) and wonder if this is the male manifestation of this.. sorrow (?).
These are friends I've known a long time so can vouch for the fact that these were once women with very healthy sex drives. From the outside (how do you really know?) at least some of them have apparently healthy relationships.
I get that everyone is busy/tired/stressed and that kids become the priority. I get the honeymoon fades. But is zero to minimal sex after kids 'the norm'???
Is is so hard to maintain a compatible and satisfying sexual desire for each other? How is that for a man? How is it for a woman?
Is it a biological thing? Once kids have been had is there is a drastic drop in sex hormones for the woman?
I really hope I haven't offended anyone with this question, I've been curious about it for a long term. Can't help feeling if there's something in it it's a reasonable reason not to seek a permanent relationship.
So these women are in their 30's or early 40's, some (but not all) with busy professional careers. They have 1 - 3 kids (exhausting I am sure). This ofcourse isn't the biggest sample in the world (and may not be representative), but I have heard female work colleagues speak in very similar ways. I also seem to have 'become' the fantasy figure (not sure how) for a married man (I am single) and wonder if this is the male manifestation of this.. sorrow (?).
These are friends I've known a long time so can vouch for the fact that these were once women with very healthy sex drives. From the outside (how do you really know?) at least some of them have apparently healthy relationships.
I get that everyone is busy/tired/stressed and that kids become the priority. I get the honeymoon fades. But is zero to minimal sex after kids 'the norm'???
Is is so hard to maintain a compatible and satisfying sexual desire for each other? How is that for a man? How is it for a woman?
Is it a biological thing? Once kids have been had is there is a drastic drop in sex hormones for the woman?
I really hope I haven't offended anyone with this question, I've been curious about it for a long term. Can't help feeling if there's something in it it's a reasonable reason not to seek a permanent relationship.
Mod note: This is a bit of a sprawling question and coming awfully close to chatfilter, but it seems the central question here is: is zero to minimal sex after kids 'the norm' (for heterosexual couples)?
posted by taz (staff) at 1:49 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:49 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Taz - To clarify - yes that is the central question :-o
posted by tanktop at 1:52 AM on October 1, 2014
posted by tanktop at 1:52 AM on October 1, 2014
It's not baby hormones, it's tiredness. Lots of people of both genders find their sex drive dips when they are exhausted or stressed, baby or no baby. Add to that the facts that lots of household chores default to the wife, and you can see why you frequently end up with tired mothers with no sex drive and not-particularly-tired fathers with intact sex drives. Sex then turns into just another demand on their time, ie not sexy at all, and you get a vicious cycle.
You are probably also a fantasy figure for these men because they imagine an affair with you would revolve around you pleasing them possibly with some manc pixie dream girl escapism thrown in, and not around conversations about school lunches or yardwork. I would not be flattered, personally.
So no it is not universal post-baby, and it can happen to either partner pre-baby, but when you see it happening only to women post-baby that is more about unfair division of labour than hormones.
posted by tinkletown at 1:54 AM on October 1, 2014 [26 favorites]
You are probably also a fantasy figure for these men because they imagine an affair with you would revolve around you pleasing them possibly with some manc pixie dream girl escapism thrown in, and not around conversations about school lunches or yardwork. I would not be flattered, personally.
So no it is not universal post-baby, and it can happen to either partner pre-baby, but when you see it happening only to women post-baby that is more about unfair division of labour than hormones.
posted by tinkletown at 1:54 AM on October 1, 2014 [26 favorites]
Based on my observation of women and couples I have known:
1) Post-partum depression is a pretty big thing. A lot of women don't realize that they have it and don't get treated, or they *DO* realize they have it and get treated but the antidepressant they're prescribed has libido suppression as a side effect.
2) Unequal division of child care and housework. Working women come home from their jobs to work a "second shift" of unpaid labor in the home. Statistically, men under-contribute to childrearing and housekeeping while over-estimating how much time/effort they're actually putting in, and women are very understandably resentful of this on top of being just plain exhausted. Not really conducive to sexy feelings towards your husband. (IMO the ideal solution to this is to divide the housework fairly and equitably among the servants.)
But if the two above problems can be avoided, then it seems that most women will remain pretty horny. So... how to avoid those problems?
1) There is mounting evidence that megadoses of Omega 3 fatty acid supplements taken before, during, and after pregnancy can stave off postpartum depression. Basically, the mechanism is that the fetus sucks mom dry of her Omega 3 reserves to make its brain and Omega 3 deficiency causes depression. So supplement the shit out of that to ensure the fetus gets what it needs without depriving mom. OmegaBrite makes a pharmaceutical-quality, mercury-filtered, pregnancy-safe Omega 3 supplement.
2) As the father, do MUCH MUCH MORE than you instinctively feel is your "fair" share of the childrearing and housework. Accept that if you're an average man that you're most likely mentally handicapped when it comes to perceiving filth and that you need to consciously and actively compensate for that deficiency. Also keep in mind that your wife has already contributed a TREMENDOUS amount in just carrying and birthing your child and thus you should do as much as possible to help once your child has been born. Bring in outside help (grandparents, other extended family, hired help, etc.) as much as possible so that neither of you burn out -- our isolated nuclear families doing everything on their own is a historical aberration and probably not healthy.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [27 favorites]
1) Post-partum depression is a pretty big thing. A lot of women don't realize that they have it and don't get treated, or they *DO* realize they have it and get treated but the antidepressant they're prescribed has libido suppression as a side effect.
2) Unequal division of child care and housework. Working women come home from their jobs to work a "second shift" of unpaid labor in the home. Statistically, men under-contribute to childrearing and housekeeping while over-estimating how much time/effort they're actually putting in, and women are very understandably resentful of this on top of being just plain exhausted. Not really conducive to sexy feelings towards your husband. (IMO the ideal solution to this is to divide the housework fairly and equitably among the servants.)
But if the two above problems can be avoided, then it seems that most women will remain pretty horny. So... how to avoid those problems?
1) There is mounting evidence that megadoses of Omega 3 fatty acid supplements taken before, during, and after pregnancy can stave off postpartum depression. Basically, the mechanism is that the fetus sucks mom dry of her Omega 3 reserves to make its brain and Omega 3 deficiency causes depression. So supplement the shit out of that to ensure the fetus gets what it needs without depriving mom. OmegaBrite makes a pharmaceutical-quality, mercury-filtered, pregnancy-safe Omega 3 supplement.
2) As the father, do MUCH MUCH MORE than you instinctively feel is your "fair" share of the childrearing and housework. Accept that if you're an average man that you're most likely mentally handicapped when it comes to perceiving filth and that you need to consciously and actively compensate for that deficiency. Also keep in mind that your wife has already contributed a TREMENDOUS amount in just carrying and birthing your child and thus you should do as much as possible to help once your child has been born. Bring in outside help (grandparents, other extended family, hired help, etc.) as much as possible so that neither of you burn out -- our isolated nuclear families doing everything on their own is a historical aberration and probably not healthy.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [27 favorites]
I think that this trope is a combination of two factors:
1. Women in our culture are socialized to adopt these ways of relating to sex. In our culture, married women, mothers, and older women tend to be desexualized. Sex is seen as something that belongs to the young, and to an extent is strongly associated with experimentation, lack of inhibition, and irresponsibility. Everything a married mother isn't supposed to be. We are surrounded by these ideas all the time, and even women who are very sex-positive and feminist can internalize it.
2. A lot of people are just too fucking busy to fuck. I think the main reason this manifests in women is that women (especially women in traditional marriages/nuclear families) definitely draw the short end of the stick when it comes to domestic labor. This is especially true if we're talking about women with young children who work outside the home.
So you've got a bunch of women with no free time to feel sexy, and who are pressured by society not to be sexy anyway. No surprise that couples living with this dynamic don't have a lot of sex.
posted by Sara C. at 2:08 AM on October 1, 2014 [4 favorites]
1. Women in our culture are socialized to adopt these ways of relating to sex. In our culture, married women, mothers, and older women tend to be desexualized. Sex is seen as something that belongs to the young, and to an extent is strongly associated with experimentation, lack of inhibition, and irresponsibility. Everything a married mother isn't supposed to be. We are surrounded by these ideas all the time, and even women who are very sex-positive and feminist can internalize it.
2. A lot of people are just too fucking busy to fuck. I think the main reason this manifests in women is that women (especially women in traditional marriages/nuclear families) definitely draw the short end of the stick when it comes to domestic labor. This is especially true if we're talking about women with young children who work outside the home.
So you've got a bunch of women with no free time to feel sexy, and who are pressured by society not to be sexy anyway. No surprise that couples living with this dynamic don't have a lot of sex.
posted by Sara C. at 2:08 AM on October 1, 2014 [4 favorites]
could be so many things. post-partum depression, body changes after pregnancy (not everyone can or does "bounce back" and it may make them feel insecure), the tiredness that comes from working a job + being a (possibly primary) caregiver to one or more young children, age, psychological factors (some women feel less sexual when they take on the identity of "mother", many so not). i think "hormones" being the primary reason is simplistic and probably not reflective of most people.
posted by hejrat at 2:10 AM on October 1, 2014
posted by hejrat at 2:10 AM on October 1, 2014
and if you're a single woman hanging around a bunch of older married dudes I wouldn't even assume they have bad sex lives like they could be having a decent amount of sex and still fantasize about you or think you're hot. if they're maintaining boundaries and being appropriate and faithful it's normal and not a huge deal but if you're perceiving it, it might be inappropriate, in which case it's bad on their part but still not abnormal. grass is greener variety forbidden fruit etc
posted by hejrat at 2:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by hejrat at 2:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
And permanent relationships do not always equal children, either by choice or fate. So I would not avoid permanent relationships just to avoid children.
I have also been to a few weddings where it has been suggested that people automatically move from romantic love to companionate love after a year or two because evolution and cavemen needed to settle down and raise a family. That is demonstrably not true at all, and I assume it is just trotted out to stop people divorcing (it always seems very pessimistic at a wedding though).
posted by tinkletown at 2:43 AM on October 1, 2014
I have also been to a few weddings where it has been suggested that people automatically move from romantic love to companionate love after a year or two because evolution and cavemen needed to settle down and raise a family. That is demonstrably not true at all, and I assume it is just trotted out to stop people divorcing (it always seems very pessimistic at a wedding though).
posted by tinkletown at 2:43 AM on October 1, 2014
As the male half of such a couple I would say that yes, my experience and that of the friends I'm close enough to have discussed it with (2 or 3) has been one of parental sex as "a hassle" for one party. It could very well be due to the factors Jacqueline suggests and she's given me some food for thought there.
One thing I will add about maintaining a sex life when you have kids... it's a pain to "get started" and have one of the kids wake up.
That sounds bad. We're quiet. Honest.
posted by tzb at 3:25 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
One thing I will add about maintaining a sex life when you have kids... it's a pain to "get started" and have one of the kids wake up.
That sounds bad. We're quiet. Honest.
posted by tzb at 3:25 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
Have you ever noticed that in terms of reviews and feedback on things, people who aren't happy tend to give more feedback or be more motivated to write a review than people who are?
I think you're seeing some of that phenomenon in the situation you bring up. People who are happy and satisfied don't speak up, the people who are unfulfilled and/or unhappy do. So that's one thing. The happy people aren't talking about it.
And people whose situation fits into a typical cultural narrative will feel more comfortable sharing those concerns with others, for example:
A mom with small kids saying "god, with everything going on in my life right now, I can't believe my husband still expects us to have sex all the time." Friends all nod and respond in solidarity.
A husband of a mom with small kids complaining to his friends "Wife never wants to have sex anymore now that we have kids!" Friends expected to all agree and bemoan post-partum women's lack of sex drive.
Things you never hear: mom with small kids complaining that she wishes her husband wanted to have more sex. Husband confiding to friends that his sex drive isn't high enough to meet wife's needs. Why? Not because these things never happen. Because saying things like those don't fit into the cultural narrative - that moms don't care about sex and focus all their attention on homemaking and childrearing, that men have insatiable sex drives and should never lose their libido.
People share what's expected, what they expect others to be able to relate to, not what might be perceived as 'unnatural' or might make them feel awkward after sharing.
Final point - other people are bringing up the mental/emotional factors, but having sex during and after pregnancy can be physically challenging or impossible, even if you want to do it mentally/emotionally. Keeping in mind that if women have 3 kids over a 10 year period, mainly in their late 20s through 30s, they're going to be pregnant and post-partum for maybe 4 of those 10 years, that's a lot of time that there might be physical reasons that sex isn't happening or at least isn't happening as much. One example: are you familiar with the tearing/lacerations of the vagina that are typical with childbirth? Yeah, that doesn't make sex easy and they take a long time to heal. And imagine the alternate scenario where you're healing from a major abdominal surgery (C section).... not going to lend itself to sexytimes, either. Then you look at pregnant ladies who may be suffering from a range of physical ailments including "morning" sickness (which actually can be at its worst in the late evening hours), reflux with any kind of increased pressure in the abdomen, sciatica and back pain, feeling like you have a watermelon strapped to your front making it difficult to do even simple things like lying on your back or rolling over.... well, that adds up.
I'm not saying that pregnancy and having children are miserable by any means, I'm specifically highlighting negative factors (which may not occur at all for some women, but some or all of them may apply to a lot of women) that make sex physically challenging during the years when we are having children.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 3:33 AM on October 1, 2014 [20 favorites]
I think you're seeing some of that phenomenon in the situation you bring up. People who are happy and satisfied don't speak up, the people who are unfulfilled and/or unhappy do. So that's one thing. The happy people aren't talking about it.
And people whose situation fits into a typical cultural narrative will feel more comfortable sharing those concerns with others, for example:
A mom with small kids saying "god, with everything going on in my life right now, I can't believe my husband still expects us to have sex all the time." Friends all nod and respond in solidarity.
A husband of a mom with small kids complaining to his friends "Wife never wants to have sex anymore now that we have kids!" Friends expected to all agree and bemoan post-partum women's lack of sex drive.
Things you never hear: mom with small kids complaining that she wishes her husband wanted to have more sex. Husband confiding to friends that his sex drive isn't high enough to meet wife's needs. Why? Not because these things never happen. Because saying things like those don't fit into the cultural narrative - that moms don't care about sex and focus all their attention on homemaking and childrearing, that men have insatiable sex drives and should never lose their libido.
People share what's expected, what they expect others to be able to relate to, not what might be perceived as 'unnatural' or might make them feel awkward after sharing.
Final point - other people are bringing up the mental/emotional factors, but having sex during and after pregnancy can be physically challenging or impossible, even if you want to do it mentally/emotionally. Keeping in mind that if women have 3 kids over a 10 year period, mainly in their late 20s through 30s, they're going to be pregnant and post-partum for maybe 4 of those 10 years, that's a lot of time that there might be physical reasons that sex isn't happening or at least isn't happening as much. One example: are you familiar with the tearing/lacerations of the vagina that are typical with childbirth? Yeah, that doesn't make sex easy and they take a long time to heal. And imagine the alternate scenario where you're healing from a major abdominal surgery (C section).... not going to lend itself to sexytimes, either. Then you look at pregnant ladies who may be suffering from a range of physical ailments including "morning" sickness (which actually can be at its worst in the late evening hours), reflux with any kind of increased pressure in the abdomen, sciatica and back pain, feeling like you have a watermelon strapped to your front making it difficult to do even simple things like lying on your back or rolling over.... well, that adds up.
I'm not saying that pregnancy and having children are miserable by any means, I'm specifically highlighting negative factors (which may not occur at all for some women, but some or all of them may apply to a lot of women) that make sex physically challenging during the years when we are having children.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 3:33 AM on October 1, 2014 [20 favorites]
I mean, just to elaborate on one of the points a bit, I realized that as I was writing the response above that even as a woman with a toddler who is very much not in the stereotypical situation you're describing, if I heard a woman in my situation complaining about the fact that she didn't have the opportunity to have enough sex with her husband, my first internal response would be to wonder how she has time or the interest to think about sex.
That kind of response would never occur to me if I heard a married man with a toddler say the same thing. Why would I be surprised or shocked to hear someone express something that is congruent with my own experience? It's all about expectations and norms!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 3:45 AM on October 1, 2014 [4 favorites]
That kind of response would never occur to me if I heard a married man with a toddler say the same thing. Why would I be surprised or shocked to hear someone express something that is congruent with my own experience? It's all about expectations and norms!
posted by treehorn+bunny at 3:45 AM on October 1, 2014 [4 favorites]
As a mother to a 3 year old and a 6 week old I have to agree with everyone above who attributes this to fatigue and lack of opportunity. Additionally childbirth and -especially- breast feeding increase vaginal dryness. This is an obviously uncomfortable issue and although it can be addressed with lubricant it can be enough of a problem to discourage women from wanting to have sex.
posted by teamnap at 4:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by teamnap at 4:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
It is not a hormonal thing. Many women's sex drives actually increase with age and experience. If a woman is complaining about sex: she may have something medically wrong with her; she may be exhausted by basically living the life of a single woman (work, childcare, household chores, all the big decisions) with the added burden of a husband who does not help out or stay fit; or, her husband may have given up trying to ring her bells.
A good man keeps a woman happy and a good woman lets him.
posted by myselfasme at 5:33 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
A good man keeps a woman happy and a good woman lets him.
posted by myselfasme at 5:33 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
As a data point, when I had my baby boy, they put me on non-estrogen birth control because they didn't want my little man to get estrogen through breast milk, and it absolutely killed my sex drive. The month I switched from those pills to a non-hormonal IUD my sex drive went from 5 miles per hour to 50. From what I understand this is not atypical for progesterone-only BC.
posted by rada at 5:41 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by rada at 5:41 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's the norm. I think it varies widely. As treehorn+bunny pointed out, it's more common to hear about the "zero to minimal sex after kids" couples because other couples aren't going around telling people "Our sex life after kids is satisfying!"
In the first few months after having a baby, yes, obviously you're not having much sex because you may be physically unable to. But by the time the kid is 1 or so I think most couples stabilize and find something that works for them... or they don't. The early years (0-4) are also the most physically demanding ones, when both partners are more likely to perceive that the division of labor is unfair and they must be doing more because they're so exhausted all the time, so if you weren't that great at communicating or trusting each other before the baby came along, you are much more likely to end up in that "zero to minimal sex" bracket.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:46 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
In the first few months after having a baby, yes, obviously you're not having much sex because you may be physically unable to. But by the time the kid is 1 or so I think most couples stabilize and find something that works for them... or they don't. The early years (0-4) are also the most physically demanding ones, when both partners are more likely to perceive that the division of labor is unfair and they must be doing more because they're so exhausted all the time, so if you weren't that great at communicating or trusting each other before the baby came along, you are much more likely to end up in that "zero to minimal sex" bracket.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:46 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
As a married, mother of a 3 year old son; I will say that in discussions with my friends in the same situation we all say the same things -- life just gets busy.
For me, it was post partum depression along with body changes and insecurity -- and pure exhaustion that played a big part in the changes I experienced after the birth of my son.
I know everyone differs, it's hard to put a pin on what changes for everyone. Relationships are dynamic. Sex is a VERY important part of the relationship a man has with his wife. It should, in my opinion, become a priority more in marriages.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 6:01 AM on October 1, 2014
For me, it was post partum depression along with body changes and insecurity -- and pure exhaustion that played a big part in the changes I experienced after the birth of my son.
I know everyone differs, it's hard to put a pin on what changes for everyone. Relationships are dynamic. Sex is a VERY important part of the relationship a man has with his wife. It should, in my opinion, become a priority more in marriages.
posted by Sara_NOT_Sarah at 6:01 AM on October 1, 2014
In addition to all of the above, childbirth changes the "sexy" parts of a woman's body in both appearance and function, and it can be hard to wrap your brain around that. The "pussy" becomes the "birth canal." "Tits" become "ridiculous achy leaking food dispensing pacifiers, oh shit do I have mastitis?" In the first year or so, you have to make that mental switch pretty quickly.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:41 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:41 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
What you haven't noticed is how much the sex life improves one the kids leave home. Researching the sex lives of older couples and senior citizens makes sex in the city look like a Disney show.
Others have covered the sheer exhaustion side of things.
Also culturally mothers and sexuality is really ataboo subject, mothers are supposed to be almost non sexual, consider everything from the media to well the conversations you have with your friends. Would your friends really be comfortable as a mum in front of other moms going yeah we are at it like rabbit's. Really? Would they still be considered good mothers or selfish for putting their needs first? If you really believe it would be fine do not read a mummy blog ever, those women can be nasty if you don't meet their exacting standards of motherhood.
One last thought emember after the birth of a child you now have another person you would literally do anything for, you cease to be the centre of you own world they become it, your priorities change.
posted by wwax at 6:55 AM on October 1, 2014
Others have covered the sheer exhaustion side of things.
Also culturally mothers and sexuality is really ataboo subject, mothers are supposed to be almost non sexual, consider everything from the media to well the conversations you have with your friends. Would your friends really be comfortable as a mum in front of other moms going yeah we are at it like rabbit's. Really? Would they still be considered good mothers or selfish for putting their needs first? If you really believe it would be fine do not read a mummy blog ever, those women can be nasty if you don't meet their exacting standards of motherhood.
One last thought emember after the birth of a child you now have another person you would literally do anything for, you cease to be the centre of you own world they become it, your priorities change.
posted by wwax at 6:55 AM on October 1, 2014
From a female point of view, it often has way more to do with overworked and under-appreciated and just plain TIRED than it does with hormones.
posted by stormyteal at 7:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by stormyteal at 7:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [5 favorites]
There was a study posted here awhile back about how men are much more likely to want sex with their long-term partners, while women's desire for their partner declines sharply and desire for (potential) new partners is more marked. I think this sounds like a very plausible reason why based on my experiences.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:02 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 8:02 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
My experience is that this is true until the youngest child is about 3, and then the exhaustion/ life craziness subsides such that things often get good again. But a lot of people are at a point in their relationship by then that they take each other for granted and are well past the honeymoon period.
posted by metasarah at 8:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 8:05 AM on October 1, 2014 [2 favorites]
This is anecdata, but I suppose that's what you're asking for. I'm mid 30s, and my friends are around my age or plus or minus 5 years. We are in similar economic places and careerwise. About half my friends have children. What I am finding when we have time for real talk is that there is a lot of stuff slightly off with my friends, including myself. Unresolved and sort of minor health problems, like the ravages of fatigue, hormone levels, thyroid, mild depression, unexplained migraines, etc. You add a full time job and a second shift of cooking/cleaning to that, yeah, sex is at the bottom of the list.
I think you couple producing kids with the time your health is likely to start going slightly vaguely kablooie (but you don't really have time to deal with it completely, oh well, I guess I am just getting older...) and the deprioritization of sex kind of creeps up on you. And any amount of sex that happens after those early tiny kid "crisis" years of childbirth, sore boobs, interrupted sleep can seem like a lot! Or at least enough.
My friends who have a really active sex life seem to have some advantage working for them--really good health or time to exercise, the means to hire help (cleaners, nannies), an unstressful career. I am happy for them. All my friends would like to be having more sex, and underneath it all we are the same people who used to have sex 3x a day. And sometimes it's not just them...their husbands are in the same boat health, time, and energy wise and have even lower drives than they do. And most of my friends are locked into monogamous relationships with this partner who feels as busted as you do. Ha!
My friends, men and women, who are monogamous and succumbed to the siren song of the manic pixie girl/boy have found themselves exhausted and often have burned out in short order. "Oh I am having my cake and eating it now...ack, wait, too much cake. I need sleep."
This sounds bleak but if you're lucky things shift, and it's usually kids getting older. Then you have time to stop clinging on for dear life and rediscover/divorce your partner, fix your career or health, or at least have a house that is not riddled with handprints at the 3 foot level. This (banal, commonplace) shit is not for the timid and not everyone makes it. I like my kids! I like that every day they are a wee bit older.
TLDR: No, but it's complicated.
posted by Lardmitten at 8:08 AM on October 1, 2014 [10 favorites]
I think you couple producing kids with the time your health is likely to start going slightly vaguely kablooie (but you don't really have time to deal with it completely, oh well, I guess I am just getting older...) and the deprioritization of sex kind of creeps up on you. And any amount of sex that happens after those early tiny kid "crisis" years of childbirth, sore boobs, interrupted sleep can seem like a lot! Or at least enough.
My friends who have a really active sex life seem to have some advantage working for them--really good health or time to exercise, the means to hire help (cleaners, nannies), an unstressful career. I am happy for them. All my friends would like to be having more sex, and underneath it all we are the same people who used to have sex 3x a day. And sometimes it's not just them...their husbands are in the same boat health, time, and energy wise and have even lower drives than they do. And most of my friends are locked into monogamous relationships with this partner who feels as busted as you do. Ha!
My friends, men and women, who are monogamous and succumbed to the siren song of the manic pixie girl/boy have found themselves exhausted and often have burned out in short order. "Oh I am having my cake and eating it now...ack, wait, too much cake. I need sleep."
This sounds bleak but if you're lucky things shift, and it's usually kids getting older. Then you have time to stop clinging on for dear life and rediscover/divorce your partner, fix your career or health, or at least have a house that is not riddled with handprints at the 3 foot level. This (banal, commonplace) shit is not for the timid and not everyone makes it. I like my kids! I like that every day they are a wee bit older.
TLDR: No, but it's complicated.
posted by Lardmitten at 8:08 AM on October 1, 2014 [10 favorites]
You might find this 2013 article from The New York Times Magazine informative. (Note: might be behind paywall.)
I haven't read the article since it was published, but I'm pretty sure it answers your question that yes, low sex drive for women after marriage and kids is a thing, and it's not necessarily about being busy.
posted by Leontine at 8:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
I haven't read the article since it was published, but I'm pretty sure it answers your question that yes, low sex drive for women after marriage and kids is a thing, and it's not necessarily about being busy.
posted by Leontine at 8:13 AM on October 1, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's dangerous to label anything as "the norm." I do think incompatible sex drives are common after having kids, but it's a situation that is also common before having kids. It's inevitable that sex will change after having kids, but it's just as normal for it to get better. Sara C. makes some great points about the messages we hear, but just because there's a thousand sitcom plots about it doesn't make it "the norm."
posted by rikschell at 11:42 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 11:42 AM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think "after a child" comes in different forms depending on the age of the child. For the first three years or so, moms are tired due to sleep interruption and 24/7 care requirements. Then there is a period when things settle down, up to 7th or 8th grade when life can be pretty organized. Then come the HS years when the kids start occupying the adult space e.g by staying up late. Finally, the empty nest.
As an o!der person reading the question, I thought, yes, some people do develop a "been there, done that" attitude toward sex, especially a spouse of a couple decades. Someone invented the phrase "boring married sex"; it must be based on something.
I've seen surveys suggesting that men want more sex than women, and other surveys that more older men are willing to have no sex at all than older women. I can't resolve the contradiction.
posted by SemiSalt at 1:14 PM on October 1, 2014
As an o!der person reading the question, I thought, yes, some people do develop a "been there, done that" attitude toward sex, especially a spouse of a couple decades. Someone invented the phrase "boring married sex"; it must be based on something.
I've seen surveys suggesting that men want more sex than women, and other surveys that more older men are willing to have no sex at all than older women. I can't resolve the contradiction.
posted by SemiSalt at 1:14 PM on October 1, 2014
In my personal experience, my male partner had/has a decreased sex drive, and mine remains the same. This contributes, in part, to a slew of issues such as feeling less attractive, feeling only like a Mom Who Takes Care Of House And Children (And Works) rather than a woman who loves to touch and kiss and be wanted. When it does happen, it seems like it is more to get him off than me (takes longer, kids wake up, he is tired...I get it).
I guess I am saying it can work both ways. Even though I am exhausted from everything, I still want to fuck my husband daily, and I get quite sad when I think of the days when he couldn't get enough of me.
I also have a responsibility to keep trying, to talk about my perceptions and feelings, and to not let it all become a cycle of resentment. It doesn't help anybody. I don't go out and flirt with dudes inappropriately, I keep trying and I remember why I fell in love with my husband in the first place. Having kids, especially young ones, is some kind of temporary insanity in some ways. Life is turned upside down in mostly really fantastic ways, but there is some downside.
I would encourage the partner who is maybe not doing more around the home/with the kids/for their partner to take time and take care of their partner for a night or a weekend. No expectations of sex or anything, but only to focus on them to show their love and appreciation, and that can go miles towards rebuilding intimacy.
posted by retrofitted at 2:49 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I guess I am saying it can work both ways. Even though I am exhausted from everything, I still want to fuck my husband daily, and I get quite sad when I think of the days when he couldn't get enough of me.
I also have a responsibility to keep trying, to talk about my perceptions and feelings, and to not let it all become a cycle of resentment. It doesn't help anybody. I don't go out and flirt with dudes inappropriately, I keep trying and I remember why I fell in love with my husband in the first place. Having kids, especially young ones, is some kind of temporary insanity in some ways. Life is turned upside down in mostly really fantastic ways, but there is some downside.
I would encourage the partner who is maybe not doing more around the home/with the kids/for their partner to take time and take care of their partner for a night or a weekend. No expectations of sex or anything, but only to focus on them to show their love and appreciation, and that can go miles towards rebuilding intimacy.
posted by retrofitted at 2:49 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
A lot more anecdata here. Many, if not most, of these people are married with children. There are a good number of women complaining of husbands with low libido too, although I'd be curious to know how many of them are mothers of small children.
I think this article provides a really interesting look at lust, attraction, and attachment from a physiological and evolutionary perspective.
posted by bennett being thrown at 3:26 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think this article provides a really interesting look at lust, attraction, and attachment from a physiological and evolutionary perspective.
posted by bennett being thrown at 3:26 PM on October 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
Hormones are responsible to an extent if the mother's still breastfeeding - breastfeeding releases the hormone prolactin which (among other things) suppresses sex drive. (There is a good biological reason for this - it's one of Nature's ways of trying to prevent you from having another baby while you're still taking care of the one in hand!)
posted by raspberry-ripple at 1:15 AM on October 2, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by raspberry-ripple at 1:15 AM on October 2, 2014 [1 favorite]
I can't answer your main question but I wanted to respond to this:
Can't help feeling if there's something in it it's a reasonable reason not to seek a permanent relationship.
A permanent relationship does not have to include having children.
If you are worried that a permanent relationship would result in pressures to have children, there are things you can do right now to prevent children from ever happening, and mentioning that you've have them done very early on in dating will tend to sort for like minded people.
posted by yohko at 3:57 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can't help feeling if there's something in it it's a reasonable reason not to seek a permanent relationship.
A permanent relationship does not have to include having children.
If you are worried that a permanent relationship would result in pressures to have children, there are things you can do right now to prevent children from ever happening, and mentioning that you've have them done very early on in dating will tend to sort for like minded people.
posted by yohko at 3:57 PM on October 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by saturn~jupiter at 1:41 AM on October 1, 2014 [2 favorites]