What, if anything, could I, should I do about an unstable acquaintance?
September 29, 2014 2:21 PM Subscribe
I worked with a guy many moons ago. We hung out in the same social circle and I'd consider us friends back then. His behavior got increasingly erratic over the years, and he's been institutionalized a few times. At one point, he made a violent threat towards me, which I believe was just meant to be a joke in poor taste but I couldn't say for sure. He sort of dropped out of my life and that of the same social circle. Except he's now made a reappearance, and I'm a little worried about it.
I'm concerned about it both from a personal safety standpoint, and a "he seems kind of like the type of person I'd read about doing something really bad in the papers." kind of way. I honestly don't know what I should do about it.
A lot backstory to explain:
When I knew him, he was heavily into mind altering substances. I have no problem with this in general, but it was pretty clear he did too much too frequently, and it affected him poorly. Or perhaps he was self medicating for an underlying mental illness. Either way, it seemed to lead to a lot of problems, and when I was in regular contact with him, he was trying to find ways of increasing his high, such as purifying Vicodin by removing the acetaminophen.
My husband and I were both friends with him, though I think I'd say my husband was closer, but we all hung out together. He got more and more into various drugs, along with a nasty drinking habit. We ended up getting tangled up in some unpleasant business between him and his then wife - he came over to hang out, we were all drinking but he got REALLY drunk, called his wife to say he was going to stay by us, and then she ended up speaking to my husband because the friend was too drunk to speak to his wife coherently. The friend had told her he wasn't going to drink anymore, and she was upset that he had come over to our place to drink. We felt caught in the middle and a bit upset that he used our house as a place to escape and get hammered.
Fast forward a little ways and he tried to kill himself, ending up in the hospital. In that time, his wife gave my husband his guns, not wanting her husband to have access because of the suicide risk. My husband is a gun owner and enthusiast, so this request did not seem odd. He was institutionalized after the hospital for a while, and when he got out, he told my husband to keep all his guns except one, he wasn't interested in them. He told my husband it was "payment" for the trouble he caused.
He, myself, and my husband stayed in touch for a time, but his behavior became increasingly more erratic. Eventually something happened where my husband wasn't responding to him in a timely manner, and he saw me on IM, threatened to punch me in the face if I didn't tell my husband to answer him. It was really fucked up, I think he was trying to be funny but I don't know for sure. I ended all contact with him.
That was probably 8-10 years ago. Over the years, he's tried to reach out to me through various means, even creating aliases to do so. But it's mostly dropped off in the past few years. Until about a month ago.
He tried creating new personas on a few different social networks and connecting with me. But he also threatened to commit suicide in an email to Google and cc'd my husband and another person (the parent of an acquaintance?). My husband responded to that. This person was then institutionalized again, and after his release he responded to my husband he wasn't really trying to kill himself, he just wanted to get google's attention for some perceived slight. I don't know all the details, but from what my husband and some acquaintances said, it sounds like someone at google got in touch with local law enforcement. Unfortunately, my husband responding started a dialog with him again, and he asked my husband if he could borrow his old guns back. When my husband didn't respond, he started offering to trade him with high value guns, which I think was just an attempt to get my husband to engage more. So my husband stopped.
I'm now feeling rather concerned over the whole thing. In addition to his interest in guns, his hobbies used to be blowing things up and lighting things on fire. When we were younger, I saw it through the lens of just having some harmless fun. But now, throw in the ongoing substance abuse and mental illness, and it's a worrying picture.
He has had some issues with the police. I don't know the details, but at one point when we were still speaking, had asked me to help proof-read a formal request to have property the police 'stole' returned.
One part of me thinks I'm just being silly and letting my imagination get the best of me. But the other part thinks that he knows where we live, and might decide in an inebriated moment that he needs to just come over, either with good or ill intent. And the other part of me is thinking about how he's obviously found his way back to guns, and how he had a history of playing around with dangerous thing, so even if he didn't mean harm to us, he has the pedigree of someone you'll read about doing something horrible on the news later.
I don't know what to do about this. I'm concerned for both my personal safety and the what if scenario of him taking a bigger action against society. I frankly just don't know what to do with this. I am certain part of it was the ridiculous threat he made has made me fearful, perhaps too fearful. But he also very well could be the guy that decided to take out his view of how he's been wronged on innocent people based on things he's said in the past, and his recent "blame Google for something they didn't do."
I realize this is a long message, I think what I'm asking is if I should do anything about this, and what can I do about this? I feel a little lost for resources.
I'm concerned about it both from a personal safety standpoint, and a "he seems kind of like the type of person I'd read about doing something really bad in the papers." kind of way. I honestly don't know what I should do about it.
A lot backstory to explain:
When I knew him, he was heavily into mind altering substances. I have no problem with this in general, but it was pretty clear he did too much too frequently, and it affected him poorly. Or perhaps he was self medicating for an underlying mental illness. Either way, it seemed to lead to a lot of problems, and when I was in regular contact with him, he was trying to find ways of increasing his high, such as purifying Vicodin by removing the acetaminophen.
My husband and I were both friends with him, though I think I'd say my husband was closer, but we all hung out together. He got more and more into various drugs, along with a nasty drinking habit. We ended up getting tangled up in some unpleasant business between him and his then wife - he came over to hang out, we were all drinking but he got REALLY drunk, called his wife to say he was going to stay by us, and then she ended up speaking to my husband because the friend was too drunk to speak to his wife coherently. The friend had told her he wasn't going to drink anymore, and she was upset that he had come over to our place to drink. We felt caught in the middle and a bit upset that he used our house as a place to escape and get hammered.
Fast forward a little ways and he tried to kill himself, ending up in the hospital. In that time, his wife gave my husband his guns, not wanting her husband to have access because of the suicide risk. My husband is a gun owner and enthusiast, so this request did not seem odd. He was institutionalized after the hospital for a while, and when he got out, he told my husband to keep all his guns except one, he wasn't interested in them. He told my husband it was "payment" for the trouble he caused.
He, myself, and my husband stayed in touch for a time, but his behavior became increasingly more erratic. Eventually something happened where my husband wasn't responding to him in a timely manner, and he saw me on IM, threatened to punch me in the face if I didn't tell my husband to answer him. It was really fucked up, I think he was trying to be funny but I don't know for sure. I ended all contact with him.
That was probably 8-10 years ago. Over the years, he's tried to reach out to me through various means, even creating aliases to do so. But it's mostly dropped off in the past few years. Until about a month ago.
He tried creating new personas on a few different social networks and connecting with me. But he also threatened to commit suicide in an email to Google and cc'd my husband and another person (the parent of an acquaintance?). My husband responded to that. This person was then institutionalized again, and after his release he responded to my husband he wasn't really trying to kill himself, he just wanted to get google's attention for some perceived slight. I don't know all the details, but from what my husband and some acquaintances said, it sounds like someone at google got in touch with local law enforcement. Unfortunately, my husband responding started a dialog with him again, and he asked my husband if he could borrow his old guns back. When my husband didn't respond, he started offering to trade him with high value guns, which I think was just an attempt to get my husband to engage more. So my husband stopped.
I'm now feeling rather concerned over the whole thing. In addition to his interest in guns, his hobbies used to be blowing things up and lighting things on fire. When we were younger, I saw it through the lens of just having some harmless fun. But now, throw in the ongoing substance abuse and mental illness, and it's a worrying picture.
He has had some issues with the police. I don't know the details, but at one point when we were still speaking, had asked me to help proof-read a formal request to have property the police 'stole' returned.
One part of me thinks I'm just being silly and letting my imagination get the best of me. But the other part thinks that he knows where we live, and might decide in an inebriated moment that he needs to just come over, either with good or ill intent. And the other part of me is thinking about how he's obviously found his way back to guns, and how he had a history of playing around with dangerous thing, so even if he didn't mean harm to us, he has the pedigree of someone you'll read about doing something horrible on the news later.
I don't know what to do about this. I'm concerned for both my personal safety and the what if scenario of him taking a bigger action against society. I frankly just don't know what to do with this. I am certain part of it was the ridiculous threat he made has made me fearful, perhaps too fearful. But he also very well could be the guy that decided to take out his view of how he's been wronged on innocent people based on things he's said in the past, and his recent "blame Google for something they didn't do."
I realize this is a long message, I think what I'm asking is if I should do anything about this, and what can I do about this? I feel a little lost for resources.
He has mental health professionals in his life at least on an institutionalized basis. They have deemed to some extent that he can be out in the world. Other than that, don't have contact and let it go. If you are uncomfortable, there is no reason to be in contact.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:38 PM on September 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:38 PM on September 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I would be concerned and take that concern seriously. You were blessed with these feelings for a reason.
That said, has he or his family been in touch in any way recently? You never explicitly said. While I don't think you have enough to start dealing with stalking or restraining orders just yet, I would call the desk sergeant at your local precinct to get something on file or at least ask for some recommendations.
Take reasonable precautions. Perhaps put up some motion detection lights around your house. Keep records of things that just don't look right. Maybe it adds up to something, maybe it doesn't.
Block this guy on social media, on your phone, email everywhere. Don't engage with him to tell him not to contact you. Don't engage with him at all. Don't show up to events where he might be.
That's what I'd do.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:40 PM on September 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
That said, has he or his family been in touch in any way recently? You never explicitly said. While I don't think you have enough to start dealing with stalking or restraining orders just yet, I would call the desk sergeant at your local precinct to get something on file or at least ask for some recommendations.
Take reasonable precautions. Perhaps put up some motion detection lights around your house. Keep records of things that just don't look right. Maybe it adds up to something, maybe it doesn't.
Block this guy on social media, on your phone, email everywhere. Don't engage with him to tell him not to contact you. Don't engage with him at all. Don't show up to events where he might be.
That's what I'd do.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:40 PM on September 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
Block this guy on social media, on your phone, email everywhere. Don't engage with him to tell him not to contact you. Don't engage with him at all. Don't show up to events where he might be.
I agree with all of these, although I might add if you can manage to set up a folder in your email, etc., that catches his attempts at contacts and stores them, that could be helpful. If he ever escalates to threats or turns up at your house and behaves in a troubling way (fingers crossed this won't be a problem), it will help for you to have a paper trail when dealing with the authorities.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:45 PM on September 29, 2014 [8 favorites]
I agree with all of these, although I might add if you can manage to set up a folder in your email, etc., that catches his attempts at contacts and stores them, that could be helpful. If he ever escalates to threats or turns up at your house and behaves in a troubling way (fingers crossed this won't be a problem), it will help for you to have a paper trail when dealing with the authorities.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:45 PM on September 29, 2014 [8 favorites]
I would start documenting this history. I know people say "delete all the emails, block on social media, etc" and that's useful if your concern is mostly your feelings. But if your concern is your physical safety, that amounts to destroying evidence that could be used to help build a case for a restraining order or other legal intervention.
I would start trying to position myself with an eye towards safety (perhaps motion sensors, etc, as mentioned above). It is better to look or feel foolish because you prepared and nothing happened than to try to pretend everything is okay only to have something terrible happen. I also think that being prepared helps reduce the odds that something bad will actually happen. Predatory people tend to prefer easy marks. Just being more of a challenge to go after can deter them.
I would also start looking at what it takes to get a restraining order. I would start trying to find out just how far he has to go before you can make such a request. I would be wondering if he has already done enough to merit such a request. If not, at what point does that become a viable legal avenue?
Above all, do not provoke him. Do not needle him, criticize him, tell him you are taking any kind of action against him, etc. Mum's the word. If you do have to deal with him, be very civil and do not let him know anything at all about your concerns, any measures you may be taking to protect yourself, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 3:04 PM on September 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
I would start trying to position myself with an eye towards safety (perhaps motion sensors, etc, as mentioned above). It is better to look or feel foolish because you prepared and nothing happened than to try to pretend everything is okay only to have something terrible happen. I also think that being prepared helps reduce the odds that something bad will actually happen. Predatory people tend to prefer easy marks. Just being more of a challenge to go after can deter them.
I would also start looking at what it takes to get a restraining order. I would start trying to find out just how far he has to go before you can make such a request. I would be wondering if he has already done enough to merit such a request. If not, at what point does that become a viable legal avenue?
Above all, do not provoke him. Do not needle him, criticize him, tell him you are taking any kind of action against him, etc. Mum's the word. If you do have to deal with him, be very civil and do not let him know anything at all about your concerns, any measures you may be taking to protect yourself, etc.
posted by Michele in California at 3:04 PM on September 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
I would be concerned if he keeps reaching out to you guys. Certainly if he threatens you or shows up unexpectedly, call 911. But the fact that he is just crazy and has a gun doesn't mean he will take it out on you. Just don't talk to him and don't be made available to talk to him. If you want professional advice, I might call the police and ask at what point you can/should involve them. You may want to reach out to the hospital or some psychiatric clinic and ask where you can find resources on what to do.
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:27 PM on September 29, 2014
posted by AppleTurnover at 3:27 PM on September 29, 2014
Llana, that is a terrible situation that I have been through. The most helpful person was a night magistrate who I spoke to on successive nights. He was no help at first and suspicious of my motives. I just kept showing up until the gruffness fell away. He told me what evidence to collect and basically walked me through getting my old friend involuntarily committed. I had to do quite a bit of work that you'd think the police would have done.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:02 PM on September 29, 2014
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:02 PM on September 29, 2014
Seconding the Do Not Respond and Collect Evidence advice. Most important, don't ignore your gut instinct.
One part of me thinks I'm just being silly and letting my imagination get the best of me.
You are not. What you've described is classic behavior of someone seeking potential outlets for violence. Just because he has not committed an actual violent act against you up until now doesn't mean he's not trying to create the opportunity. Don't give him any kind of connection to work with.
posted by helpthebear at 5:42 PM on September 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
One part of me thinks I'm just being silly and letting my imagination get the best of me.
You are not. What you've described is classic behavior of someone seeking potential outlets for violence. Just because he has not committed an actual violent act against you up until now doesn't mean he's not trying to create the opportunity. Don't give him any kind of connection to work with.
posted by helpthebear at 5:42 PM on September 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
If you think he might come by your house, consider setting up some sort of camera so you know who has been by your house. If you notice anything strange has happened while you are away, you might like to know if anyone has come by.
posted by yohko at 6:20 PM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by yohko at 6:20 PM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
First, if you have not been clear with him about this, tell him bluntly about what limits you would like to set with him. It sounds like you yourself aren't clear about this - I can't tell from reading this question whether you'd like to help your friend or defend yourself against a stalker. Send him the "never contact me again or my partner again" email (it really sounds like that's best). Then stand by it and ask for support.
That means: don't respond to his contacts personally, ever. Don't treat what's transpired between you as a fight or people rubbing each other the wrong way; it's not. Somebody you once knew is dangerous. You more than gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now, if you receive email or messages that he is suicidal, get in touch with emergency services near where he is. Don't contact his wife or his friends. It may seem cold, but it puts you in danger to do so. When your husband responded to your friend's suicidal threats, after many aggressive attempts at contact, your friend learned that is what it takes to successfully reach you. You said no. He manipulated his way back into your life, briefly, by bluffing about killing himself. That's a bad sign. What else would he do to get your attention again? He doesn't like to be told no.
Also, read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. It validates listening to your gut about people who might be dangerous. I'm not the best person to talk to about these things because of a situation with a friend that turned out very badly but it will affirm that it's not at all just your imagination or a joke you took the wrong way. Your intuition about him (and about your safety in general) is very valuable and you should listen to it.
posted by sweltering at 7:14 PM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
That means: don't respond to his contacts personally, ever. Don't treat what's transpired between you as a fight or people rubbing each other the wrong way; it's not. Somebody you once knew is dangerous. You more than gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now, if you receive email or messages that he is suicidal, get in touch with emergency services near where he is. Don't contact his wife or his friends. It may seem cold, but it puts you in danger to do so. When your husband responded to your friend's suicidal threats, after many aggressive attempts at contact, your friend learned that is what it takes to successfully reach you. You said no. He manipulated his way back into your life, briefly, by bluffing about killing himself. That's a bad sign. What else would he do to get your attention again? He doesn't like to be told no.
Also, read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. It validates listening to your gut about people who might be dangerous. I'm not the best person to talk to about these things because of a situation with a friend that turned out very badly but it will affirm that it's not at all just your imagination or a joke you took the wrong way. Your intuition about him (and about your safety in general) is very valuable and you should listen to it.
posted by sweltering at 7:14 PM on September 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
DO NOT SPEAK TO HIM, EVEN TO TELL HIM YOUR "LIMITS."
(ahem)
- Yes, Motion Detector Lights.
- YES, Camera (these are cheap now.)
- Yes, Alarm System (you can get cheap but very effective window and door alarms from Home Depot, like, $25 for a whole set!)
---
This person thinks you have "his" guns. I see no reason not to take simple and rational precautions to keep your home safe, but especially to monitor the situation.
Make sure you check the feed on your camera for the time being. If he's driving by or approaching your house, contact the police and a lawyer. The lawyer will help you get restraining orders and get the police to take you more seriously.
I'm so sorry this is happening. You're right, sooner or later this won't end well for him. He's very ill.
The best thing you can do is try to drop off of his "radar" - hard to do since he thinks you have his property....
BTW, those guns he gave your husband, who are they registered too?
...Anywho....
The problem is that even if you think the increased security is a pain in the ass, you should have motion detector lights, regardless. That's just basic homeownership 101. The alarms for doors and windows are cheap if you don't want to spring for fancy home monitoring. Setting up a surveillance camera has become a necessity with this new wave of contact and direct threats.
I'm sorry you're going through this. The roots of this started long ago when you failed to recognize that you should not be friends with drug enthusiast gun owners. I know, you were young. But still.
Your absolute best hope now is to take this seriously and put the time, money, and effort in to protecting yourselves until this blows over and your ex-friend moves on to other targets or finds himself incarcerated again.
Especially if this guy's guns are not registered to your husband now, or even if they are, your husband should surrender them to the police department. Keep any paperwork. If you ever have to call 911, let the police explain to this disturbed individual that they have his personal property in their possession.
posted by jbenben at 8:03 AM on September 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
(ahem)
- Yes, Motion Detector Lights.
- YES, Camera (these are cheap now.)
- Yes, Alarm System (you can get cheap but very effective window and door alarms from Home Depot, like, $25 for a whole set!)
---
This person thinks you have "his" guns. I see no reason not to take simple and rational precautions to keep your home safe, but especially to monitor the situation.
Make sure you check the feed on your camera for the time being. If he's driving by or approaching your house, contact the police and a lawyer. The lawyer will help you get restraining orders and get the police to take you more seriously.
I'm so sorry this is happening. You're right, sooner or later this won't end well for him. He's very ill.
The best thing you can do is try to drop off of his "radar" - hard to do since he thinks you have his property....
BTW, those guns he gave your husband, who are they registered too?
...Anywho....
The problem is that even if you think the increased security is a pain in the ass, you should have motion detector lights, regardless. That's just basic homeownership 101. The alarms for doors and windows are cheap if you don't want to spring for fancy home monitoring. Setting up a surveillance camera has become a necessity with this new wave of contact and direct threats.
I'm sorry you're going through this. The roots of this started long ago when you failed to recognize that you should not be friends with drug enthusiast gun owners. I know, you were young. But still.
Your absolute best hope now is to take this seriously and put the time, money, and effort in to protecting yourselves until this blows over and your ex-friend moves on to other targets or finds himself incarcerated again.
Especially if this guy's guns are not registered to your husband now, or even if they are, your husband should surrender them to the police department. Keep any paperwork. If you ever have to call 911, let the police explain to this disturbed individual that they have his personal property in their possession.
posted by jbenben at 8:03 AM on September 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
I want to clarify that I'm not blaming you for originally getting involved with this fellow.
I am underlining for you that the difference between Then and Now is HUGE.
"Then" you were able to ignore the warning signs.
Agreeing to store/borrow/be gifted the personal property of this poor soul has inexcoriably (in his drug addled mind) linked you to him. It has taken 10 years for that "relationship investment" to pay dividends, but here you now are.
Dispose of this guy's property by giving it to the police. You can't give them to him because he might hurt himself or others. I don't see another choice.
Own your part in this by taking steps to keep yourselves safe.
I hope this man gets the help he needs. In the meantime, you guys stay safe.
posted by jbenben at 8:18 AM on September 30, 2014
I am underlining for you that the difference between Then and Now is HUGE.
"Then" you were able to ignore the warning signs.
Agreeing to store/borrow/be gifted the personal property of this poor soul has inexcoriably (in his drug addled mind) linked you to him. It has taken 10 years for that "relationship investment" to pay dividends, but here you now are.
Dispose of this guy's property by giving it to the police. You can't give them to him because he might hurt himself or others. I don't see another choice.
Own your part in this by taking steps to keep yourselves safe.
I hope this man gets the help he needs. In the meantime, you guys stay safe.
posted by jbenben at 8:18 AM on September 30, 2014
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Do not engage with him. If he threatens himself or others, call 911. If he shows up at your house, call 911.
posted by RainyJay at 2:36 PM on September 29, 2014 [23 favorites]