Slap me twice: real estate sale
September 26, 2014 8:30 PM Subscribe
People answered my earlier question nicely and the tenant who was in the condo has left. I am going to sell the place, and I have a pretty bad history of understanding real estate transactions; please help (US market)
The property in question is in the East Camelback area of Phoenix, AZ. It's a large condominium complex and there are always several units for sale in it, so listing prices are easy to track. I am under only marginal pressure to sell the place, and own it free and clear.
I sold a house before and realize the agent didn't do what I think they ought to do: she asked "at what price do you want to list the property?" In my (retrospective) view I should have had a clear proposal that stated the listing price, the expected fees and commission, and the expected net return from the transaction.
Is it reasonable to ask these questions of multiple realtors and then select based on what amounts to a bid? This is very much a commodity-level condominium and most of the parameters should be pretty well known. With outfits like Zillow and Trulia I imagine I can get a few realtors interested in selling this property and would prefer not to sign an agency agreement unless I had such information. Better to cast a wide net for an agent, or zero in on experts for this property, which are reasonably abundant?
The property in question is in the East Camelback area of Phoenix, AZ. It's a large condominium complex and there are always several units for sale in it, so listing prices are easy to track. I am under only marginal pressure to sell the place, and own it free and clear.
I sold a house before and realize the agent didn't do what I think they ought to do: she asked "at what price do you want to list the property?" In my (retrospective) view I should have had a clear proposal that stated the listing price, the expected fees and commission, and the expected net return from the transaction.
Is it reasonable to ask these questions of multiple realtors and then select based on what amounts to a bid? This is very much a commodity-level condominium and most of the parameters should be pretty well known. With outfits like Zillow and Trulia I imagine I can get a few realtors interested in selling this property and would prefer not to sign an agency agreement unless I had such information. Better to cast a wide net for an agent, or zero in on experts for this property, which are reasonably abundant?
The standard commission varies regionally (it's not 3.5% per side here). But yeah, you don't shop real estate agents based on bid or price. There's sometimes some room to negotiate commission, but a lot of good agents won't consider going any lower than the standard. And DO NOT pick an agent based on whoever tells you the highest listing price. That's a recipe for having the property on the market for a long time, which is detrimental even if you're not in a hurry to sell.
posted by primethyme at 8:52 PM on September 26, 2014
posted by primethyme at 8:52 PM on September 26, 2014
The broker is supposed to do a CMA and give you a range-but it is your responsibility to do the pricing. But the most accurate way for you to come up with the right price is to get a presale appraisal from a licensed appraiser. The market changes from month to month and even from one day to another, so you can't count on past appraisals, if you were wondering.
A home will only sell for what the market says it is worth. Do not pick an agent just because they suggest a high price-if the price is too high the property will just sit there. In fact in my realtor ethics class I took earlier this week they reminded all of us that it is UNETHICAL to price the home too high. And even if you found an agent who did-guess what? The buyer will still get an appraisal, and if the home does not appraise for the price, there goes their financing.
One other thing. Zillow's numbers are wildly inaccurate in most if not all cases precisely because they do not have all the necessary information required to come up with an accurate pricing.
If I were you I would select someone experienced in selling your type of property in your area.
BTW no sensible broker or agent will do a CMA for you till they have you in agency.
(Husband has been a REALTOR (r) for over two decades, and i just got my real estate license. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:39 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
A home will only sell for what the market says it is worth. Do not pick an agent just because they suggest a high price-if the price is too high the property will just sit there. In fact in my realtor ethics class I took earlier this week they reminded all of us that it is UNETHICAL to price the home too high. And even if you found an agent who did-guess what? The buyer will still get an appraisal, and if the home does not appraise for the price, there goes their financing.
One other thing. Zillow's numbers are wildly inaccurate in most if not all cases precisely because they do not have all the necessary information required to come up with an accurate pricing.
If I were you I would select someone experienced in selling your type of property in your area.
BTW no sensible broker or agent will do a CMA for you till they have you in agency.
(Husband has been a REALTOR (r) for over two decades, and i just got my real estate license. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:39 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My response is based on selling my townhouse in Maryland in 2008. Your market may vary.
I had three agents present to me to try to win my business. They each included what comps they'd found and what they thought I should sell for. This was standard practice in my market. One of them came in WAY high on price; I wouldn't want an agent who was either so incompetent or so unrealistic.
But if you have a cookie-cutter condo in a building full of other cookie-cutters, you have great comps and should have a very good idea of what to sell for. You shouldn't really need a realtor's help on pricing.
In retrospect, I wish I had just sold my house myself. My townhouse was one of a few basic models in a community full of 'em. I don't think my realtor added a lot of value to the process, and in fact she slowed things down in some cases. For example, she took very poor pictures and I had to redo them myself. If you use an agent, ask if they hire a pro for pictures! She also didn't do any of the staging and we nixed an open house. So, basically she just created a sign and some flyers, put a lockbox on the door, listed on MLS (which regular people can do now too), and talked to the buyers. Not worth the thousands of dollars I paid.
I had time, as I had been laid off and was just waiting to sell so I could move to the opposite coast.
Oh, and: The statement "no sensible broker or agent will do a CMA for you until they have you in agency" was not true in my market. It was in fact standard practice for realtors to have their printed comps with them, then do a walk-through of the property, and then discuss what they thought the list price should be, as part of trying to get a seller's business.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 10:51 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
I had three agents present to me to try to win my business. They each included what comps they'd found and what they thought I should sell for. This was standard practice in my market. One of them came in WAY high on price; I wouldn't want an agent who was either so incompetent or so unrealistic.
But if you have a cookie-cutter condo in a building full of other cookie-cutters, you have great comps and should have a very good idea of what to sell for. You shouldn't really need a realtor's help on pricing.
In retrospect, I wish I had just sold my house myself. My townhouse was one of a few basic models in a community full of 'em. I don't think my realtor added a lot of value to the process, and in fact she slowed things down in some cases. For example, she took very poor pictures and I had to redo them myself. If you use an agent, ask if they hire a pro for pictures! She also didn't do any of the staging and we nixed an open house. So, basically she just created a sign and some flyers, put a lockbox on the door, listed on MLS (which regular people can do now too), and talked to the buyers. Not worth the thousands of dollars I paid.
I had time, as I had been laid off and was just waiting to sell so I could move to the opposite coast.
Oh, and: The statement "no sensible broker or agent will do a CMA for you until they have you in agency" was not true in my market. It was in fact standard practice for realtors to have their printed comps with them, then do a walk-through of the property, and then discuss what they thought the list price should be, as part of trying to get a seller's business.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 10:51 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Use Zillow to find a few candidate realtors: search zillow by the zip code, then go to the realtors tab. This will show you many many results, but for most of them zillow also shows you a map of their recent transactions.
I did this recently to sell a condo. So my candidates all knew the area. I chose the guy who was super, super knowledgeable about all of the complexes in my area - which ones are conversions from apartments, which ones had legal proceedings pending, and of course he knew the 'character'. So not only was I convinced, but I knew he could respond to offers in a very detailed way.
That's what you need: you want to avoid a realtor who doesn't really know the condo, finds it a pain to even drive over, and takes any offer just to close the deal.
posted by Dashy at 5:52 AM on September 27, 2014
I did this recently to sell a condo. So my candidates all knew the area. I chose the guy who was super, super knowledgeable about all of the complexes in my area - which ones are conversions from apartments, which ones had legal proceedings pending, and of course he knew the 'character'. So not only was I convinced, but I knew he could respond to offers in a very detailed way.
That's what you need: you want to avoid a realtor who doesn't really know the condo, finds it a pain to even drive over, and takes any offer just to close the deal.
posted by Dashy at 5:52 AM on September 27, 2014
We went with an agent who was an expert in our neighborhood. He had ties to trades people who could do everything we needed to get our house market ready, and then he marketed the house by taking excellent pictures and putting it in MLS.
Our house sold within a week last year. The market was still pretty soft then.
You are in a MUCH better market now. We're I you, I'd under-price my condo by a few thousand, and sell that bad boy quickly. Don't go nuts making upgrades, sell as-is. Make sure it's spotlessly clean and that there are no glaring red flag issues. Fresh paint isn't a bad idea, if you can get it reasonably cheaply. But don't do any updating. People will want to do it to their tastes and you won't get your $$$ back on that sort of thing.
See which agent has the most listings in your complex and go with that person. The faster it sells, the better it is for you financially.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:12 AM on September 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Our house sold within a week last year. The market was still pretty soft then.
You are in a MUCH better market now. We're I you, I'd under-price my condo by a few thousand, and sell that bad boy quickly. Don't go nuts making upgrades, sell as-is. Make sure it's spotlessly clean and that there are no glaring red flag issues. Fresh paint isn't a bad idea, if you can get it reasonably cheaply. But don't do any updating. People will want to do it to their tastes and you won't get your $$$ back on that sort of thing.
See which agent has the most listings in your complex and go with that person. The faster it sells, the better it is for you financially.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:12 AM on September 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
He had ties to trades people who could do everything we needed to get our house market ready
This was huge when I sold my place a few years ago. I went with an agent who had a relationship with my bank (USAA) who deals with people relocating all the time and had some special "Get money back if you go with one of our agents" thing. I wound up with someone who lived closer to the house than I did who was totally okay showing it, popping by to meet contractors for small stuff that needed fixing and was totally reasonable for dealing with as far as selling it for the price I wanted (not the first lowball offer that came in). She knew the area, knew the history of the area and was a great complement to my property.
She had email and so she was a joy to communicate with and gave me advice but didn't really pressure me about staging or open houses. ymmv for this sort of thing but I wanted a contactable, no-nonsense person who could just handle it and not pressure me into doing things I didn't want and do it on my terms. Everyone wants something different from an agent, it looks like you may just want to get this off your todo list. Think about whether time, hassle or money is going to be the most important factor for you and make sure you pick a real estate agent who shares your values on that.
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM on September 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
This was huge when I sold my place a few years ago. I went with an agent who had a relationship with my bank (USAA) who deals with people relocating all the time and had some special "Get money back if you go with one of our agents" thing. I wound up with someone who lived closer to the house than I did who was totally okay showing it, popping by to meet contractors for small stuff that needed fixing and was totally reasonable for dealing with as far as selling it for the price I wanted (not the first lowball offer that came in). She knew the area, knew the history of the area and was a great complement to my property.
She had email and so she was a joy to communicate with and gave me advice but didn't really pressure me about staging or open houses. ymmv for this sort of thing but I wanted a contactable, no-nonsense person who could just handle it and not pressure me into doing things I didn't want and do it on my terms. Everyone wants something different from an agent, it looks like you may just want to get this off your todo list. Think about whether time, hassle or money is going to be the most important factor for you and make sure you pick a real estate agent who shares your values on that.
posted by jessamyn at 9:23 AM on September 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm a former San Francisco realtor and mysterious_stranger is spot on. Have three agents come by and present their proposals for selling the house. They should all bring CMA (comparative market analysis) reports of what similar homes in your area have sold for in the past 6 months to year. You make the final decision but they should make recommendations. They should share their marketing strategy, explain the listing agreement, selling process, commission and fees. Every market is different and local customs vary enormously. Ask follow up questions, are they responsive? If not, they won't become more responsive later. But also keep in mind that folks are on their best behavior when they're trying to get your business.
Appraisers generally work for banks and they rely on the same comps that your agent will provide. They confirm that the property that the bank is lending money for is worth it, they don't determine selling price.
posted by shoesietart at 12:58 PM on September 27, 2014
Appraisers generally work for banks and they rely on the same comps that your agent will provide. They confirm that the property that the bank is lending money for is worth it, they don't determine selling price.
posted by shoesietart at 12:58 PM on September 27, 2014
Let me rephrase what I said. It is totally fine for you to expect your agents-to-be to bring comps with them. But an actual CMA is more involved, and in this area at least we are told to do that just for clients.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:30 PM on September 27, 2014
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:30 PM on September 27, 2014
And here appraisers do generally work for banks, but they are determining what your home is worth on that day. That may or may not be the price you can get for it. A good experienced real estate agent will have a good idea of a range, but if the appraiser comes in and says the home isn't worth the set price, doesn't matter if the buyer and seller are happy with the price, because the lender will NOT be.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:34 PM on September 27, 2014
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:34 PM on September 27, 2014
Response by poster: Got bites on my queries and I'm on the way, thanks much to all for the insight!
posted by jet_silver at 8:21 PM on September 29, 2014
posted by jet_silver at 8:21 PM on September 29, 2014
St. Alia of the Bunnies: How is a CMA different from what I described? My realtors brought printed comps, then did a walk-through of the property, then told me what they thought I should sell for. What additional information are you saying would be in a CMA?
The very first result when I Google "comparative market analysis" describes a CMA thusly: "The ‘comparative market analysis,’ or CMA, is the old standby marketing tool for agents trying to win listings. The agents try to demonstrate the value they bring to the transaction by pulling supposedly proprietary sales numbers from databases run by their associations and the multiple listing service, to assemble a set of recent and pending home sales that can provide context for pricing your house."
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:40 PM on September 30, 2014
The very first result when I Google "comparative market analysis" describes a CMA thusly: "The ‘comparative market analysis,’ or CMA, is the old standby marketing tool for agents trying to win listings. The agents try to demonstrate the value they bring to the transaction by pulling supposedly proprietary sales numbers from databases run by their associations and the multiple listing service, to assemble a set of recent and pending home sales that can provide context for pricing your house."
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:40 PM on September 30, 2014
The comps are the houses that are comparable to the home you are trying to figure out a price for.
As to what a CMA is, let me quote from my Real Estate text: " ... a CMA is a client-level service that requires brokers to use their opinion about market values to manipulate the data to project a reasonable sales price. " ("Client" meaning someone you are in agency with. )
Which, being translated, means you have to look at intangibles as well as tangibles. For example, there is a house I am going to be listing soon for the VA-it happens to have power lines going right over the property. That may very well have a negative effect on the house. Another thing-maybe one comparable has a fireplace, while your house does not, and vice versa. Another thing-does the neighborhood in question have a lot of foreclosures? It's not uncommon now for at least one foreclosed house to have to be taken into consideration as a comparable.
I talked to my husband, who has been in the business for over 20 years, and what he said was that when he is talking to someone regarding listing their home, he will usually take some comp figures with him, but he saves the full CMA for when they have agreed he will represent them as the listing agent.
We do indeed have proprietary information from our Multiple Listing Service that aids us in doing CMAs among other things. Zillow/Trulia do NOT have the access to those facts and figures, and in many if not most cases their numbers are based on outdated and/or incomplete data.
Agents are not permitted to promise you the moon; and it is equally not in their or your best interest to underprice a home either. They are just as interested as you in getting you what your home is worth-but the market simply usually will not permit you to get MORE than it is worth.
My advice is find an agent you can trust and relate to who has experience selling your type of property. You want someone you feel you "click" with. An agent can be excellent and still not be someone you personally are comfortable with. Hold out for that, and you should have a good experience.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:43 PM on October 1, 2014
As to what a CMA is, let me quote from my Real Estate text: " ... a CMA is a client-level service that requires brokers to use their opinion about market values to manipulate the data to project a reasonable sales price. " ("Client" meaning someone you are in agency with. )
Which, being translated, means you have to look at intangibles as well as tangibles. For example, there is a house I am going to be listing soon for the VA-it happens to have power lines going right over the property. That may very well have a negative effect on the house. Another thing-maybe one comparable has a fireplace, while your house does not, and vice versa. Another thing-does the neighborhood in question have a lot of foreclosures? It's not uncommon now for at least one foreclosed house to have to be taken into consideration as a comparable.
I talked to my husband, who has been in the business for over 20 years, and what he said was that when he is talking to someone regarding listing their home, he will usually take some comp figures with him, but he saves the full CMA for when they have agreed he will represent them as the listing agent.
We do indeed have proprietary information from our Multiple Listing Service that aids us in doing CMAs among other things. Zillow/Trulia do NOT have the access to those facts and figures, and in many if not most cases their numbers are based on outdated and/or incomplete data.
Agents are not permitted to promise you the moon; and it is equally not in their or your best interest to underprice a home either. They are just as interested as you in getting you what your home is worth-but the market simply usually will not permit you to get MORE than it is worth.
My advice is find an agent you can trust and relate to who has experience selling your type of property. You want someone you feel you "click" with. An agent can be excellent and still not be someone you personally are comfortable with. Hold out for that, and you should have a good experience.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:43 PM on October 1, 2014
One final thing-we practice in North Carolina. Real estate practices do vary by region. So, ymmv.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:44 PM on October 1, 2014
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:44 PM on October 1, 2014
>"Which, being translated, means you have to look at intangibles as well as tangibles. "
Right, which is why each realtor walked through my house and considered its unique features before verbally telling me what they thought I should sell for.
Really, I'm telling ya, a CMA is what was done in my market, when realtors were trying to win business, not after they already had a client. You were saying that no realtor worth their salt would do that, but in my market, this was the standard and a realtor who didn't do it likely wouldn't get much business.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:41 PM on October 3, 2014
Right, which is why each realtor walked through my house and considered its unique features before verbally telling me what they thought I should sell for.
Really, I'm telling ya, a CMA is what was done in my market, when realtors were trying to win business, not after they already had a client. You were saying that no realtor worth their salt would do that, but in my market, this was the standard and a realtor who didn't do it likely wouldn't get much business.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:41 PM on October 3, 2014
Different markets are different. All I have to go by is what my local instructors tell me!
But for you probably not much different. You need to pick your realtor by other criteria. You are responsible for picking the price of your unit-they just give you the reasonable parameters of what in their experience you can get for it. And decent realtors should be fairly close on the numbers, I would think.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:01 AM on October 4, 2014
But for you probably not much different. You need to pick your realtor by other criteria. You are responsible for picking the price of your unit-they just give you the reasonable parameters of what in their experience you can get for it. And decent realtors should be fairly close on the numbers, I would think.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:01 AM on October 4, 2014
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Virtually all brokers are in it to make their 7% commission (or 3.5% if shared with a buyer's broker). Their strong imperative is just to close the sale quickly; obviously, at most they'll get 7 cents for every additional dollar you get, so they'd just as soon have you list at a fire sale price.
You should set the price you want, and then hire a broker who is going to work to get you that price.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:43 PM on September 26, 2014 [2 favorites]