How do I get my money/ my violin back?

September 26, 2014 4:17 PM

I worked out a private sale of a beginner's violin with a new friend met at a conference (complicated story; detail within). She didn't have enough money to pay me then, and because I had a good feeling about her I let her fly home first and worked out a plan to pay me later. It has been two months, I have not seen a cent, and she's ignoring my messages. What can I do?

I have a backup violin that rarely gets played, so in July when my best friend asked if she could borrowed it on behave of a women attending a conference her parents run, I agreed. Later I met this woman myself (let's call her L), and L and I hit it off. We played music together and hung out and had a great time, and L asked if she could buy the violin from me. I was not planning on selling the instrument, but L said she could use it (so that her daughter could also play, etc), so I agreed. We agreed on the price. In my opinion it was not a fetching price and she was getting a good deal, but I wasn't out to make money off of her. She asked if she could pay over two months, and I agreed, and so she left the conference with my violin and info for my paypal account. Several other people that I know for a long time and trust also met L, and all confirmed that L seems trustworthy.

It's been over two months and L has not paid at all, so I sent her a facebook message asking her where things are at. I have her phone number, but I didn't want to be too aggressive. Facebook indicates that she has read the message, but then ten days passed and she never even responded. I sent another message saying "I do need to know where we are at" and ask specifically for her to get back to me. Same deal-- message read; no reply.

I have offered her several "outs" as well- If she changed her mind about buying the violin, just send it back to me. If she needs more time to come up with the money, I can work with that, too, I just need to know.

At this point my last step is to call her and be confrontational/ aggressive, I am honestly kind of ready to neither see my money nor my violin. But I want to get a sense of what my options are. Are there anything I can do legally (she lives in the US; I in Canada; this whole thing went down in Canada)? Are there any effective ways to engage her without being a jerk?

posted by redwaterman to Grab Bag (22 answers total)

She stole your violin. You should not be worried about being a jerk; the person who stole your violin is a jerk. What do all of the people who know this person say about her actions and what she's doing?

At this point, I'd definitely be looking at legal action, though I am not a lawyer and have no idea about international laws governing this.
posted by The Michael The at 4:21 PM on September 26, 2014 [6 favorites]

I would talk to your best friend who made the introduction. Legally I have no idea if you any recourse, or at least any recourse that is likely to get your money. I think social pressure from all the people that you both know is likely the best method.
posted by saradarlin at 4:22 PM on September 26, 2014 [4 favorites]

At this point my last step is to call her and be confrontational/ aggressive

This is not really so, as you haven't called her yet to follow up in a friendly way. My instinct says you got bilked, but the benefit of the doubt says that L might just be a really flakey person, the kind who forgets to make good on her business deals and who reads her Facebook messages but forgets to respond.
posted by telegraph at 4:22 PM on September 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: They are really, really surprised, and agreed that it's unexpected of L.
posted by redwaterman at 4:22 PM on September 26, 2014

Have your mutual friend ask for you. Guilt the cash out of her.
posted by pibeandres at 4:24 PM on September 26, 2014 [7 favorites]

What kind of dollar value are we talking about here? That has an impact on what measures are practical (e.g. whether a lawyer is worth it).
posted by primethyme at 4:24 PM on September 26, 2014

Response by poster: 400 canadian dollars.
posted by redwaterman at 4:25 PM on September 26, 2014

It seems like the least confrontational way is to just call her up, play dumb about the Facebook messages--"Facebook is so annoying. I can never tell if people get my messages," and ask her what's going on.
posted by sevenless at 4:26 PM on September 26, 2014 [14 favorites]

Call her and tell her you need the cash immediately and you really need her to get it in tomorrow's mail. I'd also call the police where she lives just to see if they will be able to help you if you need to press charges. What she did is a kind of theft but whether it's something they will help you with is another question.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:34 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

Yeah calling to nicely ask what's up is like the opposite of aggressive. As The Michael The said so succinctly, this person stole your violin. Aggressive would be filing a police report. Calling and asking is incredibly polite and appropriate even if you'd done it 2 days later. If you want to be very nice about it, I'd give her a week to start paying from the first time you call her (not the first time you speak to her, but the first message you leave) and then I would then give her a week for the mutual friend to try, and then I would call the police. This person has unambiguously stolen $400 from you at this point. Try to get it back.
posted by brainmouse at 4:35 PM on September 26, 2014

This would appear to be fraud under your local law in Canada. If you contact the police it should be where the crime occurred, not in her location.
posted by JimN2TAW at 4:45 PM on September 26, 2014

Call her. Talk to her on the phone. It's not aggressive to call people on the phone.
posted by klangklangston at 4:57 PM on September 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

I would call her first and be friendly and polite (or leave a friendly and polite voicemail if she doesn't pick up, which I suspect she might not). Give her about a week or so, and if no response, call her again and tell her you're going to have to go to the police if she doesn't pay you what she owes -- it seems from my lay(wo)man perspective that you might have a case since you have multiple witnesses to your giving her the violin. And then if still no response, follow through with a police report, because otherwise you're definitely never going to see your money or your violin again. And, this is just me, but I would definitely tell everyone in my mutual social circle about it because I would be holding a grudge for a very long time about this.
posted by Librarypt at 5:27 PM on September 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

And in the future, never trust anyone you've only just met.
posted by Librarypt at 5:30 PM on September 26, 2014 [6 favorites]

I was in a similar situation and after numerous attempts to resolve it by email and phone, it was resolved when I told the person I would have to get authorities involved, even though I wasn't actually planning on doing so/likely didn't really have grounds to do so. So I would agree with the advice that after leaving her some voicemails/discussing it via phone a time or two, the next step should be telling her you're going to file a police report - doesn't really matter whether you actually have a case or not legally, what matters is that because she knows she is in the wrong, you make her motivated enough to take action, whether that be by paying you or by sending it back. If that still doesn't work, you'll probably be in a tough situation, but I suspect you'll be able to resolve this one way or another.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 5:35 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

Honest to god, some people are just really bad at letting go of money. They mean to, they intend to, but when it actually comes down to having the cash with them at the right time, remembering their paypal password, finding their checkbook they have a horrible block. Call, followup in a friendly way first, and be very friendly persistent. For a couple of weeks. Then get tough.
posted by SLC Mom at 6:18 PM on September 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

I don't know what good calling and being friendly will get you. She's already aware that you want your money, she's just decided not to pay you and yes, she's stolen it. If it were me, I'd send her a FB message sating that she has 48 hours to pay you or you're lodging a police report. You've already been nice, and extremely patient and it hasn't worked. She doesn't deserve anything more, she lacks the basic good manners to even respond or acknowledge you. Of course she does, she's a thief! Screw her, honestly. Lodge a report, get it back.
posted by Jubey at 6:24 PM on September 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

I wouldn't make the threat about calling the police unless you know whether or not the police will help you. For me, personally, I wouldn't make a threat I wasn't able to back up, but you at least want to know whether that threat has any teeth. I would call her.
posted by alphanerd at 6:45 PM on September 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

Even if you had a signed contract, I doubt that the police would consider extraditing her from the US to Canada. Without a contract they would certainly do nothing.

Call her, ask her if she intends to pay and then consider it a lesson learned one way or the other.
posted by HuronBob at 7:19 PM on September 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

If you get her on the phone, or even leave a voicemail, make sure to wedge in there somewhere something to the effect of you "don't want to believe" she's not trustworthy, so many of our mutual friends/colleages thought you seemed nice and would be disappointed.

i.e., hint at a threat to damage her reputation in public/her network (in addition to filing a police report).
posted by ctmf at 7:44 PM on September 26, 2014 [13 favorites]

Being that I am a flake, I'm more inclined to think she's a flake then that she deliberately stole your violin. Call her nicely and hopefully she'll be terribly embarrassed and pay. Maybe I am too trusting, but go to a conference, steal a violin from a friend of a friend? Who does that? It seems like an implausible plan and certainly much less plausible than flakiness.

Please don't anyone steal from me now that you know I'm too trusting and a flake. I would mean to file a police report and then never get around to it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:52 PM on September 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

I know we are in a digital age and I hate using phones, but you have to call her. It's not like you are asking her to be a job reference and she's ignoring you. She took your $400 violin and never paid you for it. I'd definitely call and say you were checking to see how she liked the violin, and if she was planning on keeping it because you kind of need the cash. You might want to ask your friend what she thinks you should do, but your friend could separately mention it to her and see what the violin thief says. I wouldn't have the mutual friend reach out specifically for this -- if they talk anyway, casually asking would be good. See what she hears.

I do think at some point if she doesn't pay up, you just need to call the police and ask what you can do about it. I would set clear parameters with this woman. "I haven't heard any response from my last three messages. I am expecting payment within the next two weeks from today or I will unfortunately be forced to contact the police." Talk to the police before you threaten so you know what leg you have to stand on.

I'm curious what ends up happening if you care to update the thread!
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:08 AM on September 27, 2014 [4 favorites]