Egocentricity, Buddhism and Self-hate
September 22, 2014 9:53 AM Subscribe
How critical is it to understand the egocentricity/self-hate concept when reading Cheri Huber's 'There is Nothing Wrong With You'?
I've seen Huber's book recommended on AskMetafilter before and I purchased it based on the title alone. I've gotten a third of the way through it and I've found myself able to relate to the book very much, however there's one concept that I just can't understand: egocentricity.
On page 27, she defines egocentricity as "the illusion of being a separate self, separate from everything -- ourselves, each other, life, the universe -- that results from the process of social conditioning." Perhaps I am exceptionally unintelligent, but I have no clue what that means or how it relates to self-hate.
So far, my inability to figure this out hasn't stopped the book from being incredibly useful, but I'd prefer to figure this out. Could someone help me understand this, or direct me to some resource(s) where I can better understand this concept? Or, is this something I can just ignore for now?
I've seen Huber's book recommended on AskMetafilter before and I purchased it based on the title alone. I've gotten a third of the way through it and I've found myself able to relate to the book very much, however there's one concept that I just can't understand: egocentricity.
On page 27, she defines egocentricity as "the illusion of being a separate self, separate from everything -- ourselves, each other, life, the universe -- that results from the process of social conditioning." Perhaps I am exceptionally unintelligent, but I have no clue what that means or how it relates to self-hate.
So far, my inability to figure this out hasn't stopped the book from being incredibly useful, but I'd prefer to figure this out. Could someone help me understand this, or direct me to some resource(s) where I can better understand this concept? Or, is this something I can just ignore for now?
I haven't read that book but I've studied Buddhism for years.
The ego is that sense of "I"; it's a character we have of ourselves. You can observe how you conjure up the "I" most clearly at times when you are 1) indignant, 2) ashamed or 3) afraid. That "gasp" accompanied by the self-clutching when startled is a prime example. You grasp for something larger than the mere body alone, you grasp for the sense of identity as well. When you are ashamed, it is as though your own face is larger than your body, as though the world is shining a spotlight on you. But who is the "you" underneath that spotlight? Is it your mind? Is it your body? What is 'under the spotlight' is the character "I" that your mind has generated, nothing more.
It is said that in enlightenment, that character "I" will melt away, at which point the illusion of being a self separate from others will also disappear.
There are meditation practices to get a deeper experience (vs. pure intellectual understanding) of this.
In regards to self-hate: first the mind has to create a character "I" and then generate thoughts of anger towards it. The hate is an delusion, and the hater is an illusion.
We might imagine that we are separate from others, and that these others are judging us, or that we fail to meet their expectations, hence our self hate. In a stripped down sense, we see others as we imagine ourselves to be, and we only understand others through projection of our own mind's contents. Egocentricity. (I am drastically simplifying, and leaving out Karma.) In enlightenment, the mind would be pure and so you could interact with others truly as they are, not as how we imagine them to be.
You are not exceptionally unintelligent: this is tough stuff. Monks meditate for years to get a direct experience of this. It's ok if you don't get it for now; in enough reading it will start to sink in. Hope that helps.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:00 PM on September 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
The ego is that sense of "I"; it's a character we have of ourselves. You can observe how you conjure up the "I" most clearly at times when you are 1) indignant, 2) ashamed or 3) afraid. That "gasp" accompanied by the self-clutching when startled is a prime example. You grasp for something larger than the mere body alone, you grasp for the sense of identity as well. When you are ashamed, it is as though your own face is larger than your body, as though the world is shining a spotlight on you. But who is the "you" underneath that spotlight? Is it your mind? Is it your body? What is 'under the spotlight' is the character "I" that your mind has generated, nothing more.
It is said that in enlightenment, that character "I" will melt away, at which point the illusion of being a self separate from others will also disappear.
There are meditation practices to get a deeper experience (vs. pure intellectual understanding) of this.
In regards to self-hate: first the mind has to create a character "I" and then generate thoughts of anger towards it. The hate is an delusion, and the hater is an illusion.
We might imagine that we are separate from others, and that these others are judging us, or that we fail to meet their expectations, hence our self hate. In a stripped down sense, we see others as we imagine ourselves to be, and we only understand others through projection of our own mind's contents. Egocentricity. (I am drastically simplifying, and leaving out Karma.) In enlightenment, the mind would be pure and so you could interact with others truly as they are, not as how we imagine them to be.
You are not exceptionally unintelligent: this is tough stuff. Monks meditate for years to get a direct experience of this. It's ok if you don't get it for now; in enough reading it will start to sink in. Hope that helps.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:00 PM on September 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
Haven't read the book. Um, but I haz monk ordination card.
The doctrine of no-self works kinda like how, on Metafilter and MetaTalk, people are careful to distinguish between (a) saying someone is a racist, vs. (b) saying that something someone said/did was racist. The latter tactic is more fruitful.
The corpse in the library once commented that if someone tells you that something you said/did was racist, it's best to react the same way you would if they'd told you you had spinach between your teeth. Thank them, fix it, and move on.
If you're like OMG WHAT KIND OF PERSON AM I THAT I HAVE SPINACH BETWEEN MY TEETH, you're falling into the trap of egocentricity.
People do/say racist things because they live in a racist society, and often fail to floss (or whatever the appropriate metaphor would be). It's not because they have an essential soul that has been inherently flawed from the beginning of time.
Now imagine treating EVERYTHING like racism. There is no essential soul. Just various causes and effects that flow in and out of you, the same way water does when you drink it and then sweat or cry or whatever.
There's no Celestial Dentist evaluating and punishing your flossing record. But since your brain and hands and wallet are all tied to those particular teeth, all of y'all are naturally best off if y'all can work together to obtain and deploy dental floss as often as is appropriate.
Your brain-hands-teeth-wallet are also tied to, and part of, larger things, maybe a family, where your spouse picks up the floss on their way home from work, or a national health care plan, where it's in the nation's interest to educate you about floss, or all carbon-based life forms, including the dinosaurs and other prehistoric plants and animals who became petroleum, and the intercontinental chain of factory and transportation workers who turned petroleum into nylon dental floss and brought it to you.
We could imagine this brain-hand-pocketbook-teeth-dinosaur conglomeration as a person, and that's often a convenient shorthand. But this shorthand is also dangerous, because we can start imagining this 'person' as a creature who should be morally evaluated based on their dental hygiene. Which is unnecessary, and often counterproductive.
So: there is no separate self, and so there's no one to hate. Just spinach -- and spinach is excellent nutritious stuff as soon as you get it out of your teeth and into your stomach.
(I hope that helps. If not, let me know.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:30 PM on September 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
The doctrine of no-self works kinda like how, on Metafilter and MetaTalk, people are careful to distinguish between (a) saying someone is a racist, vs. (b) saying that something someone said/did was racist. The latter tactic is more fruitful.
The corpse in the library once commented that if someone tells you that something you said/did was racist, it's best to react the same way you would if they'd told you you had spinach between your teeth. Thank them, fix it, and move on.
If you're like OMG WHAT KIND OF PERSON AM I THAT I HAVE SPINACH BETWEEN MY TEETH, you're falling into the trap of egocentricity.
People do/say racist things because they live in a racist society, and often fail to floss (or whatever the appropriate metaphor would be). It's not because they have an essential soul that has been inherently flawed from the beginning of time.
Now imagine treating EVERYTHING like racism. There is no essential soul. Just various causes and effects that flow in and out of you, the same way water does when you drink it and then sweat or cry or whatever.
There's no Celestial Dentist evaluating and punishing your flossing record. But since your brain and hands and wallet are all tied to those particular teeth, all of y'all are naturally best off if y'all can work together to obtain and deploy dental floss as often as is appropriate.
Your brain-hands-teeth-wallet are also tied to, and part of, larger things, maybe a family, where your spouse picks up the floss on their way home from work, or a national health care plan, where it's in the nation's interest to educate you about floss, or all carbon-based life forms, including the dinosaurs and other prehistoric plants and animals who became petroleum, and the intercontinental chain of factory and transportation workers who turned petroleum into nylon dental floss and brought it to you.
We could imagine this brain-hand-pocketbook-teeth-dinosaur conglomeration as a person, and that's often a convenient shorthand. But this shorthand is also dangerous, because we can start imagining this 'person' as a creature who should be morally evaluated based on their dental hygiene. Which is unnecessary, and often counterproductive.
So: there is no separate self, and so there's no one to hate. Just spinach -- and spinach is excellent nutritious stuff as soon as you get it out of your teeth and into your stomach.
(I hope that helps. If not, let me know.)
posted by feral_goldfish at 12:30 PM on September 23, 2014 [7 favorites]
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posted by freeform at 10:28 AM on September 22, 2014