I know nothing about grad school; is it for me?
July 29, 2014 5:56 PM Subscribe
I am an older student (in my 50s), graduating with my first B.A. in December, in anthropology. I'm very sad to leave school, as I have really enjoyed my time there (well, in this iteration--not so much when I was much younger). I absolutely LOVE going to classes and learning new stuff. I love the idea of continuing to be a student, but I'm not sure if grad school makes sense. But, mostly, I really don't understand how grad school works:
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
I have not really been considering grad school, because I assume that it would be REALLY hard to work a full-time job while earning a graduate degree, and I really need to be working. Is this true?
I am currently unemployed and will begin looking for a "real" job in earnest within the next few weeks, in anticipation of my graduation. But I know a B.A. doesn't get you much. I've been planning to look for a job in non-profit management. I have no illusions about getting a job even remotely related to my love of anthropology (most particularly, primatology), and I'm just sucking that up. But the fantasy of really working in anthropology is fueling my fantasy of getting a graduate degree.
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
I have not really been considering grad school, because I assume that it would be REALLY hard to work a full-time job while earning a graduate degree, and I really need to be working. Is this true?
I am currently unemployed and will begin looking for a "real" job in earnest within the next few weeks, in anticipation of my graduation. But I know a B.A. doesn't get you much. I've been planning to look for a job in non-profit management. I have no illusions about getting a job even remotely related to my love of anthropology (most particularly, primatology), and I'm just sucking that up. But the fantasy of really working in anthropology is fueling my fantasy of getting a graduate degree.
In some US states you can audit college classes for free at state universities once you reach a certain age, 60 in some. I have a 90+ year old friend who does this, she buys all the books, goes to all the classes, participates in discussions, but she does not write papers or take exams. She loves doing this.
Yes, you can get federal subsidized loans for grad school. But you probably don't want to be paying those loans off for the rest of your life. A masters in the humanities is generally not worth much in terms of job prospects and going for a PhD would be very unlikely to lead to a college teaching job at your age.
I'm just being realistic, I'm a bit older than you, and I have some graduate degrees. Feel free to memail me.
posted by mareli at 7:04 PM on July 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, you can get federal subsidized loans for grad school. But you probably don't want to be paying those loans off for the rest of your life. A masters in the humanities is generally not worth much in terms of job prospects and going for a PhD would be very unlikely to lead to a college teaching job at your age.
I'm just being realistic, I'm a bit older than you, and I have some graduate degrees. Feel free to memail me.
posted by mareli at 7:04 PM on July 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Based on what you say here, it sounds like grad school is probably not for you at this time.
Caveat, there are two kinds of "grad school": professional degrees and academic degrees.
-Professional degrees are things like medical doctor, lawyer (JD), business management (MBA), social worker, etc. Professional degrees don't give you a stipend to be a student, instead people take loans to do them, and the program is meant to prepare you for a well-paying job (so you can afford to pay back the loans, theoretically).
-Academic degrees, which is what you would get in anthro - these (Masters degrees or PhDs) prepare you to be an expert in the field - which generally means you'd be looking at jobs teaching or researching in a university setting, although with some academic degrees like mathematics or biology there are jobs outside the university. The rest of what I say here applies to academic degrees.
I sympathize with loving school and wanting to keep up the aspects you enjoy! But grad school is not that, I'm afraid. PhD programs (in the humanities, and I imagine in anthro) are oriented toward producing people who will be professors, and this generally means solitary researchers who are the world expert on one excruciatingly narrow topic. It doesn't (usually, in the humanities anyway) mean collaboration, or broad interests, and it does mean a ton of time alone in the library, and endless reading, writing and presenting your own ideas at conferences.
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
Yes, good PhD programs will pay students a small stipend and the students will usually work as teaching assistants. These stipends are usually meant for single people in their 20s to live on, so they are low low low (many grad students are on food stamps), and they often require that you not take other paying work at the same time.
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
You should not take out loans to get a graduate degree, unless the degree is something like an MD that will greatly increase your earning power. PhDs generally do not increase your earning power in that way, and unless you know for sure your field is an exception you shouldn't take loans to cover it. Masters' can sometimes increase your earning power, for example in many public sector jobs you would get an automatic pay increase for having one. In that case it might make sense to take loans if you know the pay increase would let you pay off the loan quickly.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
Depends on the field. Typically in the US, for a Masters degree you'd do a couple of years of coursework and then a big final paper, and for a PhD you'd do a couple of years of coursework and then qualifying exams then a dissertation, which is a large solo research and writing project that takes 3+ (sometimes 6+!) years. Getting a PhD is all about getting you to be an independent scholar/expert in your very very narrow bit of your field, so research is very much a you-are-the-captain-of-your-own-ship thing.
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
Don't know.
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
Value for what? That is the question. What do you want this degree to allow you to do? In my opinion, it's only worth doing if the degree will let you get a specific kind of promotion/job that otherwise you wouldn't be able to get. It's not worth doing out of a general sense that learning is fun or that more school is always better. Your time is precious and your healthy earning years are precious, do not waste them without having a very clear plan. If you have no savings, I would strongly strongly urge you to get a job to build savings.
It's scary to leave college because the way forward is not clear, and your degree title will not match up to a job title. But it's important to forge ahead through this period of uncertainty and really think about jobs that will fit your strengths and then pursue those jobs with persistence. If a job requires a master's, that's the time to think about how you can fit one in. But as a general rule, don't do a grad degree unless it will play a role in a clear career plan.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:16 PM on July 29, 2014 [10 favorites]
Caveat, there are two kinds of "grad school": professional degrees and academic degrees.
-Professional degrees are things like medical doctor, lawyer (JD), business management (MBA), social worker, etc. Professional degrees don't give you a stipend to be a student, instead people take loans to do them, and the program is meant to prepare you for a well-paying job (so you can afford to pay back the loans, theoretically).
-Academic degrees, which is what you would get in anthro - these (Masters degrees or PhDs) prepare you to be an expert in the field - which generally means you'd be looking at jobs teaching or researching in a university setting, although with some academic degrees like mathematics or biology there are jobs outside the university. The rest of what I say here applies to academic degrees.
I sympathize with loving school and wanting to keep up the aspects you enjoy! But grad school is not that, I'm afraid. PhD programs (in the humanities, and I imagine in anthro) are oriented toward producing people who will be professors, and this generally means solitary researchers who are the world expert on one excruciatingly narrow topic. It doesn't (usually, in the humanities anyway) mean collaboration, or broad interests, and it does mean a ton of time alone in the library, and endless reading, writing and presenting your own ideas at conferences.
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
Yes, good PhD programs will pay students a small stipend and the students will usually work as teaching assistants. These stipends are usually meant for single people in their 20s to live on, so they are low low low (many grad students are on food stamps), and they often require that you not take other paying work at the same time.
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
You should not take out loans to get a graduate degree, unless the degree is something like an MD that will greatly increase your earning power. PhDs generally do not increase your earning power in that way, and unless you know for sure your field is an exception you shouldn't take loans to cover it. Masters' can sometimes increase your earning power, for example in many public sector jobs you would get an automatic pay increase for having one. In that case it might make sense to take loans if you know the pay increase would let you pay off the loan quickly.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
Depends on the field. Typically in the US, for a Masters degree you'd do a couple of years of coursework and then a big final paper, and for a PhD you'd do a couple of years of coursework and then qualifying exams then a dissertation, which is a large solo research and writing project that takes 3+ (sometimes 6+!) years. Getting a PhD is all about getting you to be an independent scholar/expert in your very very narrow bit of your field, so research is very much a you-are-the-captain-of-your-own-ship thing.
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
Don't know.
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
Value for what? That is the question. What do you want this degree to allow you to do? In my opinion, it's only worth doing if the degree will let you get a specific kind of promotion/job that otherwise you wouldn't be able to get. It's not worth doing out of a general sense that learning is fun or that more school is always better. Your time is precious and your healthy earning years are precious, do not waste them without having a very clear plan. If you have no savings, I would strongly strongly urge you to get a job to build savings.
It's scary to leave college because the way forward is not clear, and your degree title will not match up to a job title. But it's important to forge ahead through this period of uncertainty and really think about jobs that will fit your strengths and then pursue those jobs with persistence. If a job requires a master's, that's the time to think about how you can fit one in. But as a general rule, don't do a grad degree unless it will play a role in a clear career plan.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:16 PM on July 29, 2014 [10 favorites]
I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
This is a splendid reason not to go to graduate school. Do not incur debt for lifestyle.
Even if you had the money, I do not think you would enjoy graduate school. I attended graduate school in a history department, and 100% of my grades for most classes was determined by writing. The form of this writing was usually a single term paper due at the end of the semester, although I had one class where we had a few shorter papers. This was all solo work, by the way. There were no group projects for collaboration. And then of course is the final thesis paper to get your degree. It is hard for me to imagine that life in the anthropology department would be much different. I think you could expect to write a lot by yourself i.e. something that you detest and find hard.
If you love learning new stuff, I get it. My hobby is studying. But, you can do that free of charge or for very little expense. Your undergraduate degree should have trained you to read, research, and evaluate anthropological scholarship, so go continue your education for a buck-fifty in library late charges rather than incur more debt. I know I feel that I have learned a lot more academically since I left school than when I was in it.
posted by Tanizaki at 7:21 PM on July 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
This is a splendid reason not to go to graduate school. Do not incur debt for lifestyle.
Even if you had the money, I do not think you would enjoy graduate school. I attended graduate school in a history department, and 100% of my grades for most classes was determined by writing. The form of this writing was usually a single term paper due at the end of the semester, although I had one class where we had a few shorter papers. This was all solo work, by the way. There were no group projects for collaboration. And then of course is the final thesis paper to get your degree. It is hard for me to imagine that life in the anthropology department would be much different. I think you could expect to write a lot by yourself i.e. something that you detest and find hard.
If you love learning new stuff, I get it. My hobby is studying. But, you can do that free of charge or for very little expense. Your undergraduate degree should have trained you to read, research, and evaluate anthropological scholarship, so go continue your education for a buck-fifty in library late charges rather than incur more debt. I know I feel that I have learned a lot more academically since I left school than when I was in it.
posted by Tanizaki at 7:21 PM on July 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
You could get a master's in education and teach. You sound like you'd be an amazing teacher.
Jobs in anthropology are hard to come by, but some government agencies hire them, a GIS graduate certificate, which most people do online, is helpful. Have you any experience doing archaeological surveys? There is good money in doing that on a contract basis and it would help finance grad school as it is typically short term work with lodging and per diem provided.
Research oriented graduate programs are very individually directed and rely on writing. If you don't like those things it might not be a good fit, plus your job prospects are not that much better unless you plan to stay in academia.
posted by fshgrl at 7:45 PM on July 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
Jobs in anthropology are hard to come by, but some government agencies hire them, a GIS graduate certificate, which most people do online, is helpful. Have you any experience doing archaeological surveys? There is good money in doing that on a contract basis and it would help finance grad school as it is typically short term work with lodging and per diem provided.
Research oriented graduate programs are very individually directed and rely on writing. If you don't like those things it might not be a good fit, plus your job prospects are not that much better unless you plan to stay in academia.
posted by fshgrl at 7:45 PM on July 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm sort of dating someone who is in his 40's and in grad school. However, he's there because he's spent the past 7 years gradually getting more and more interested in his particular field and this is the full-on, all-hands-on-deck, "this is what I want to do with my life absolutely and no one is going to stop me" commitment to His Life Goal. And he is being worked like crazy (we unfortunately are not going to be able to see each other for the next few MONTHS because his schedule is that overloaded), so if he wasn't THAT committed to this course of study he'd probably be killed from stress alone.
In your case, though, it sounds like you just like "being in school" and "learning things", and don't really have any Large Life Plan in mind. So grad school may not be the best idea. But - continuing education programs are perfect for people like you. Or lectures and classes offered by a nearby natural history museum. Or - here in Brooklyn we have some oddball little thing called the Brooklyn Brainery, which is just a sort of "we like taking classes about all sorts of weird stuff" club; maybe a similar sort of club near you would appeal. (It's certainly scratched my own "I like to learn things" itch.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:50 PM on July 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
In your case, though, it sounds like you just like "being in school" and "learning things", and don't really have any Large Life Plan in mind. So grad school may not be the best idea. But - continuing education programs are perfect for people like you. Or lectures and classes offered by a nearby natural history museum. Or - here in Brooklyn we have some oddball little thing called the Brooklyn Brainery, which is just a sort of "we like taking classes about all sorts of weird stuff" club; maybe a similar sort of club near you would appeal. (It's certainly scratched my own "I like to learn things" itch.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:50 PM on July 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Primate Moon: I am a PhD student in History who would gladly spend the entire night dissuading you from attending graduate school in the humanities, especially if you're already broke and unemployed - it's the academic equivalent of deciding to have a baby to "save" a failing relationship. But as a humanities PhD student myself, unfortunately I'm on the verge of a very long drive for a research trip so I am unable either to answer your questions or to dissuade you properly at this time. However I wanted to draw your attention to this thread, the answers to which bear heavily on your situation as well and which I would advise you to read very carefully and take to heart. In short: no you absolutely should not go to graduate school in anthropology (or any other humanities subject), especially if - heaven forbid - you have to take out loans in order to do so. The ivory tower humanities tenure-track professor fantasy, although seductive, almost entirely no longer exists today in terms of employment possibilities. The idea that there are actually any real jobs at the end of a humanities PhD is a rosy-tinted fiction meant to lure you into a life of desperate indentured servitude as an adjunct (at best), or perpetual unemployment (at worst; with a PhD, you are "overqualified" for every single job out there, and are passed over for people with BAs). Whatever difficulties you face now trying to find employment with a BA in anthro will be similar but greatly magnified with a graduate degree in the subject. Taking out loans to pursue graduate study in anthropology is a horrible idea in every respect. You've been warned.
posted by ClaireBear at 8:32 PM on July 29, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by ClaireBear at 8:32 PM on July 29, 2014 [11 favorites]
I have a PhD in anthropology. To answer your questions as briefly as possible:
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
Yes, most PhD students in anthropology will have "funding" which means that their tuition is paid, along with a small amount to live on (a stipend), often in exchange for part-time work for the department as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Pursuing a PhD in anthropology is not really compatible with a full-time "real world" job.
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
You can get loans for grad school to cover tuition, etc. and living expenses not covered by your funding package. It's a bad idea, though.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
A PhD program in anthropology consists of a few years of coursework (which will include a lot of writing) followed by a period of field research and finally writing a dissertation. If you are in physical anthropology or archaeology you'll usually wind up being part of a larger team, but you'll be expected to identify some particular topic of research within the larger project, figure out how to conduct research on it, and do the write-up independently. A PhD program in anthropology is intended to train you to be an independent faculty member and/or independent researcher. Writing is a major part of it, and will continue to be a major part of your career.
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
Yes, your age will be a problem: not because graduate programs have it in for older students, but because their goal for their students is to have them graduate and become anthropology professors and/or researchers, and then you are supposed to get your own crop of trainees that you train in the discipline and so on and so forth. It's like perpetuating a lineage: faculty want to beget more faculty, who beget more faculty. And it costs the department money to train a graduate student, so departments want to see a return on their investment. Since the earliest you could enter a PhD program would be Fall 2015, you will be in your early 60s by the time you finish. You are just not a good investment for them.
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
Holding a master's in anthro is not of that much value. There are some positions for field archaeologists with MAs. An MA takes 2-3 years, and a PhD another 3+ years. A large number of graduate students in anthropology enter a PhD program directly following undergraduate and do a combined MA/PhD that typically takes at least 6 years.
In addition to all the other reasons that would lead me to advise you against pursuing a graduate degree in anthro, the icing on the cake is the fact that the job market sucks. Even if you have gone through undergrad getting straight As and being the smartest student in the class, when you get to a PhD program you will find yourself surrounded by a cohort of other straight-A students who are even smarter than that, playing this sick game of musical chairs where you've got only one chair (a tenure-track university teaching job) for every 3 players in the game.
posted by drlith at 8:57 PM on July 29, 2014 [8 favorites]
1) I know grad school is crazy expensive, but I have some idea that many schools actually pay students to go there and pay them stipends as well? Is this true?
Yes, most PhD students in anthropology will have "funding" which means that their tuition is paid, along with a small amount to live on (a stipend), often in exchange for part-time work for the department as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Pursuing a PhD in anthropology is not really compatible with a full-time "real world" job.
2) I have depended 100% on federal school loans for undergrad; can you get them for grad as well? I am unemployed and have no money at all for school.
You can get loans for grad school to cover tuition, etc. and living expenses not covered by your funding package. It's a bad idea, though.
3) What does grad school consist of? Classes or just researching and writing? I'm good at writing but I detest it. It's so HARD! I also do way better collaborating with others, but does grad school demand more independent work?
A PhD program in anthropology consists of a few years of coursework (which will include a lot of writing) followed by a period of field research and finally writing a dissertation. If you are in physical anthropology or archaeology you'll usually wind up being part of a larger team, but you'll be expected to identify some particular topic of research within the larger project, figure out how to conduct research on it, and do the write-up independently. A PhD program in anthropology is intended to train you to be an independent faculty member and/or independent researcher. Writing is a major part of it, and will continue to be a major part of your career.
4) Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
Yes, your age will be a problem: not because graduate programs have it in for older students, but because their goal for their students is to have them graduate and become anthropology professors and/or researchers, and then you are supposed to get your own crop of trainees that you train in the discipline and so on and so forth. It's like perpetuating a lineage: faculty want to beget more faculty, who beget more faculty. And it costs the department money to train a graduate student, so departments want to see a return on their investment. Since the earliest you could enter a PhD program would be Fall 2015, you will be in your early 60s by the time you finish. You are just not a good investment for them.
5) Does a masters have any value in liberal arts, especially anthro? Or must I get a Ph.D? And how much longer would that take?
Holding a master's in anthro is not of that much value. There are some positions for field archaeologists with MAs. An MA takes 2-3 years, and a PhD another 3+ years. A large number of graduate students in anthropology enter a PhD program directly following undergraduate and do a combined MA/PhD that typically takes at least 6 years.
In addition to all the other reasons that would lead me to advise you against pursuing a graduate degree in anthro, the icing on the cake is the fact that the job market sucks. Even if you have gone through undergrad getting straight As and being the smartest student in the class, when you get to a PhD program you will find yourself surrounded by a cohort of other straight-A students who are even smarter than that, playing this sick game of musical chairs where you've got only one chair (a tenure-track university teaching job) for every 3 players in the game.
posted by drlith at 8:57 PM on July 29, 2014 [8 favorites]
If you know nothing about grad school, it probably is not for you. Sorry. Loving the idea of continuing to be a student is one of the worst possible reasons to go to grad school. Grad school is not an extension of the undergraduate experience; it is very focused training in a particular area, usually as preparation for a particular career track. If you are not dedicated to pursuing a career track for which grad school is a prerequisite or a very advantageous launch pad, then it does not make sense to go to grad school.
posted by Orinda at 10:40 PM on July 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Orinda at 10:40 PM on July 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I absolutely LOVE going to classes and learning new stuff. I love the idea of continuing to be a student
Do not go to grad school. You will be doing things you don't enjoy every day, surrounded by people who get to do the thing you love which you are excluded from. It's pretty much all writing papers, preparation for a career of writing papers and trying to get them accepted so you don't get fired for not publishing enough papers. It's a badly paid job whose only reading involves teaching yourself what you need to do the work, while you want to sit in classes and grow as a human being by discovering more wonders in the world of learning for learning's sake. I don't know what the future path is for people who want to continue being true university students. I spent 10 years in grad school looking for that and never found it.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 1:56 AM on July 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Do not go to grad school. You will be doing things you don't enjoy every day, surrounded by people who get to do the thing you love which you are excluded from. It's pretty much all writing papers, preparation for a career of writing papers and trying to get them accepted so you don't get fired for not publishing enough papers. It's a badly paid job whose only reading involves teaching yourself what you need to do the work, while you want to sit in classes and grow as a human being by discovering more wonders in the world of learning for learning's sake. I don't know what the future path is for people who want to continue being true university students. I spent 10 years in grad school looking for that and never found it.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 1:56 AM on July 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
I agree with everyone else that full-time grad school isn't a great fit for you right now. I think the fact that you "detest" writing would make it a miserable time.
One option for you since you have a love of learning is to go work for a university. At the one I work for, I can take classes for free. Many of my colleagues have worked on degrees while working. One is working on a BA, another guy did a Master's, and my other friend is working on a PhD. Others just take a class here or there because they love learning like you do! Is it sometimes hard to balance the load- yeah! But our bosses have been very supportive of us taking classes because they are all professors and value the acquisition of knowledge.
posted by Mouse Army at 5:05 AM on July 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
One option for you since you have a love of learning is to go work for a university. At the one I work for, I can take classes for free. Many of my colleagues have worked on degrees while working. One is working on a BA, another guy did a Master's, and my other friend is working on a PhD. Others just take a class here or there because they love learning like you do! Is it sometimes hard to balance the load- yeah! But our bosses have been very supportive of us taking classes because they are all professors and value the acquisition of knowledge.
posted by Mouse Army at 5:05 AM on July 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think everyone above has done a great job explaining grad school. One final thing to think about is what type of anthropology would you want to focus on. I think a lot of the answers above are very focused on cultural anthropology, which might be considered more on the humanities side of things. But there are much more social science and natural sciences areas of anthropology, which likely come with bigger stipends as a grad student and the possibility of more technical careers that may pay better (and are actually hiring). When I was a Duke, I had friends in the Evolutionary Anthropology whose work ranged from strictly primatology to more physical anthropology. When I was at UGA, I had friends in Ecological and Environmental Anthropology, whose work ranged from ethnopharmacology to human geography. All of those fields have more job prospects than a general BA in anthropology. But going to grad school in one of them definitely requires that you have a passion for the social/natural science end of the field, and that you are able to identify before you apply a single topic in that field to which you are willing to devote several years of your life.
I also over the years have known people who have completed grad school at a range of ages. I have a colleague now who waited for her kids to graduate from high school before she started undergrad, got her PhD in her 50s, and became a professor at 60. There certainly are snobs out there who aren't interested in grad students who are over 30, but many folks in academia value the maturity that comes from life experience.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:37 AM on July 30, 2014
I also over the years have known people who have completed grad school at a range of ages. I have a colleague now who waited for her kids to graduate from high school before she started undergrad, got her PhD in her 50s, and became a professor at 60. There certainly are snobs out there who aren't interested in grad students who are over 30, but many folks in academia value the maturity that comes from life experience.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:37 AM on July 30, 2014
Will my age be a problem? I would be on the far side of mid-50s by the time I would finish a program, with not much working time left (not that I can afford to retire; I imagine working for a long, long time). Will schools hesitate to accept me because of this?
I think a lot of this will depend on what you've been doing up until now. All the older students I've known were already working in their field of study and just wanted/needed an advanced degree to move forward in their career. I would also not discount the social isolation you may face as an older student. I was only 31 when I started grad school and even then I missed out on a lot of social events because the 20-somethings were out drinking & partying and I'd outgrown that.
I think "loving learning" is not a good reason to go to grad school and it's a terrible reason to take on any debt. It's not like undergrad where you take a variety of classes and learn a bunch of things. Studies are pretty focused on one thing, and it's much more difficult because the not-very-committed students have already washed out.
I would go talk to an anthro professor and ask them questions about the classes and what they entail. It's almost definitely a lot of writing - even if it's lab or field work, you still have to write up reports. There are not that many tests in grad school - the only ones I can remember (that weren't all essay) were for a statistics class.
posted by desjardins at 6:46 AM on July 30, 2014
I think a lot of this will depend on what you've been doing up until now. All the older students I've known were already working in their field of study and just wanted/needed an advanced degree to move forward in their career. I would also not discount the social isolation you may face as an older student. I was only 31 when I started grad school and even then I missed out on a lot of social events because the 20-somethings were out drinking & partying and I'd outgrown that.
I think "loving learning" is not a good reason to go to grad school and it's a terrible reason to take on any debt. It's not like undergrad where you take a variety of classes and learn a bunch of things. Studies are pretty focused on one thing, and it's much more difficult because the not-very-committed students have already washed out.
I would go talk to an anthro professor and ask them questions about the classes and what they entail. It's almost definitely a lot of writing - even if it's lab or field work, you still have to write up reports. There are not that many tests in grad school - the only ones I can remember (that weren't all essay) were for a statistics class.
posted by desjardins at 6:46 AM on July 30, 2014
I have to agree that grad school is probably not for you.
(1) Good PhD programs commonly offer no tuition and a small stipend. Unless you have an NSF fellowship, $12-20K is probably the range you'd expect, and biased towards the lower end. So still pretty austere. MA programs almost always charge full tuition with no financial aid except for loans.
(2) You can get federal loans for grad school, but financing an MA program on loans is unwise.
(3) This is the big reason why you probably shouldn't go to grad school. An MA program is sort of like an undergraduate honors program, but more so. There are classes, but the amount of writing you do will shoot way up compared to a normal undergraduate track, and it will be more central to what you're doing than it was as an undergrad. And you will probably have to write a thesis. If you don't like writing, don't do this. Also, graduate school is a deeply solitary and independent endeavor, at least outside lab settings. There will be moments of collaboration or otherwise being together with other students, but you should think of graduate school as basically you alone in the library and then you alone with a computer for many, many hours.
(4) It's probably illegal for them to do so, but I expect your age would be a problem for phd programs.
(5) An MA has very limited value. It's good if you have a job where an MA in anything bumps your salary. If you come from an undistinguished undergrad school, doing well in an MA program can help bridge the gap to a good PhD program. An MA will not really open any doors in academia. Usually you just go straight from undergraduate to a phd program without an MA program in between; an MA is thrown in along the way. A PhD program in anthro likely takes five to eight years, with three to six of those being you doing the independent research and writing for your dissertation.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:04 AM on July 30, 2014
(1) Good PhD programs commonly offer no tuition and a small stipend. Unless you have an NSF fellowship, $12-20K is probably the range you'd expect, and biased towards the lower end. So still pretty austere. MA programs almost always charge full tuition with no financial aid except for loans.
(2) You can get federal loans for grad school, but financing an MA program on loans is unwise.
(3) This is the big reason why you probably shouldn't go to grad school. An MA program is sort of like an undergraduate honors program, but more so. There are classes, but the amount of writing you do will shoot way up compared to a normal undergraduate track, and it will be more central to what you're doing than it was as an undergrad. And you will probably have to write a thesis. If you don't like writing, don't do this. Also, graduate school is a deeply solitary and independent endeavor, at least outside lab settings. There will be moments of collaboration or otherwise being together with other students, but you should think of graduate school as basically you alone in the library and then you alone with a computer for many, many hours.
(4) It's probably illegal for them to do so, but I expect your age would be a problem for phd programs.
(5) An MA has very limited value. It's good if you have a job where an MA in anything bumps your salary. If you come from an undistinguished undergrad school, doing well in an MA program can help bridge the gap to a good PhD program. An MA will not really open any doors in academia. Usually you just go straight from undergraduate to a phd program without an MA program in between; an MA is thrown in along the way. A PhD program in anthro likely takes five to eight years, with three to six of those being you doing the independent research and writing for your dissertation.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:04 AM on July 30, 2014
A better idea would be to attempt to seek employment somewhere; with the state, or a private company that offers tuition reimbursement as part of its benefits package. I can take up to two classes a term for just the cost of materials and taxes -- the tuition is covered by my job.
I have a Master's -- it's more of a "practical" Master's, but it's not really doing me much good at the moment. I was also lucky enough to get a graduate assistantship to pay for my living expenses in school, but it took a whole lot of work to get it, and the pay was absolutely terrible.
You'd be much better off working, then trying a class or two to see if it's worth it for you. I think I'd like to get a second Master's at some point, but I want to figure out what I want it in, first, and also, I'd definitely want my employer to pay for it. The debt is intense.
Secondly, my brother-in-law got a Fellowship in Psychology for his Ph.D. However, he's got loads of Master's degree debt and he had to get a stellar GPA, interview, etc. to get one of those ...five-ish fellowships that were available for Liberal Arts Ph.D's. It's tough, especially when you want it to be free.
posted by PearlRose at 9:29 AM on July 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have a Master's -- it's more of a "practical" Master's, but it's not really doing me much good at the moment. I was also lucky enough to get a graduate assistantship to pay for my living expenses in school, but it took a whole lot of work to get it, and the pay was absolutely terrible.
You'd be much better off working, then trying a class or two to see if it's worth it for you. I think I'd like to get a second Master's at some point, but I want to figure out what I want it in, first, and also, I'd definitely want my employer to pay for it. The debt is intense.
Secondly, my brother-in-law got a Fellowship in Psychology for his Ph.D. However, he's got loads of Master's degree debt and he had to get a stellar GPA, interview, etc. to get one of those ...five-ish fellowships that were available for Liberal Arts Ph.D's. It's tough, especially when you want it to be free.
posted by PearlRose at 9:29 AM on July 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
For the love of God, no!
This was me in 1998, only instead of loving undergrad, my issue was that I had no idea what the "real world" was like, and was terrified of it. I had fellowship offers, so I wasn't accruing debt. Add more emphasis if you would be going into debt to do this.
Grad school (in astronomy, in my case) wasn't much like undergrad. There was much less emphasis on going to classes. It did demand a lot more independent work. These aren't the droids you're looking for.
I was in a Ph.D. program, but ended up leaving with a master's degree. A master's degree in astronomy opens up pretty much zero job opportunities (A Ph.D. isn't that much better- the market for academic jobs is intense, and I've heard it is worse in the humanities).
If you're going to drift without knowing where you want to go, at least find a way to make enough money to support yourself while you do it. Grad school isn't a good way to do that.
posted by Anne Neville at 11:32 AM on July 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
This was me in 1998, only instead of loving undergrad, my issue was that I had no idea what the "real world" was like, and was terrified of it. I had fellowship offers, so I wasn't accruing debt. Add more emphasis if you would be going into debt to do this.
Grad school (in astronomy, in my case) wasn't much like undergrad. There was much less emphasis on going to classes. It did demand a lot more independent work. These aren't the droids you're looking for.
I was in a Ph.D. program, but ended up leaving with a master's degree. A master's degree in astronomy opens up pretty much zero job opportunities (A Ph.D. isn't that much better- the market for academic jobs is intense, and I've heard it is worse in the humanities).
If you're going to drift without knowing where you want to go, at least find a way to make enough money to support yourself while you do it. Grad school isn't a good way to do that.
posted by Anne Neville at 11:32 AM on July 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
People above have covered the basics and then some, which is great. I earned my MA right after my BA and it's been the right choice since I'm a teacher and it really increased my salary and job opportunities. I thought about getting a PhD for awhile but decided against it for various reasons: most of all because I love my current position but also because there are hundreds of fresh doctorates in my field each year yet literally just a handful of professorial positions. I may well eventually pursue a PhD or EdD but, from the start, I'd be planning to find a job outside academia. Friends and loved ones have gone the extended grad school track and some are very happy but most have found themselves disillusioned and/or in debt.
I agree with LobsterMitten when she says, "it sounds like grad school is probably not for you at this time" in that the door will always be open for you should you wish to go back in a few years or even further down the line. It sounds like finding a job you love or at least enjoy would be the best next step, and then considering grad school later on. Many employers will pay for graduate and/or continuing education classes so that's a great way to do it. Like you, I love learning so I regularly take graduate education classes, community college art courses, and do summer language programs abroad as well as home study.
Also, congratulations on earning your BA! I know it may feel like it's not "enough," especially in a place like Boston with so many highly educated people and the like, but it really is all you need for most white collar jobs: they want to know you can write well, think critically, present and represent the company and the like. It sounds like you could use some support in finding a good job fit as well as marketing yourself in that you bring a lot of different skills than a younger BA. I know there's age discrimination in hiring, which sucks, but you have knowledge and experience that many companies would consider a plus, if simply "marketed" effectively. I hope your alma mater's career center and/or alumni office can help you make some connections and determine a route to take next.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:22 AM on July 31, 2014
I agree with LobsterMitten when she says, "it sounds like grad school is probably not for you at this time" in that the door will always be open for you should you wish to go back in a few years or even further down the line. It sounds like finding a job you love or at least enjoy would be the best next step, and then considering grad school later on. Many employers will pay for graduate and/or continuing education classes so that's a great way to do it. Like you, I love learning so I regularly take graduate education classes, community college art courses, and do summer language programs abroad as well as home study.
Also, congratulations on earning your BA! I know it may feel like it's not "enough," especially in a place like Boston with so many highly educated people and the like, but it really is all you need for most white collar jobs: they want to know you can write well, think critically, present and represent the company and the like. It sounds like you could use some support in finding a good job fit as well as marketing yourself in that you bring a lot of different skills than a younger BA. I know there's age discrimination in hiring, which sucks, but you have knowledge and experience that many companies would consider a plus, if simply "marketed" effectively. I hope your alma mater's career center and/or alumni office can help you make some connections and determine a route to take next.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:22 AM on July 31, 2014
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The nice thing about it being a program for professional adults was that there was a wide range of ages in the classes. There weren't many people there straight out of undergrad. As far as the value of a liberal arts master's degree goes, it really depends. In my city, it seems like people at a lot of companies eventually reach a point where they more or less need a master's degree in anything in order to advance professionally. It's stupid, in my opinion but if any employer really wants to hire a fresh face with less work experience and more letters after their name than me, that's their problem.
My advice: Get a job, work full-time for a year, then see if you want to add a part time program to your life. A lot of people take time off in between undergrad and graduate school.
Answers to your questions:
1) Yes, some schools pay students to go there. However, this stipend is generally barely livable. My brother is a research assistant at a university. He doesn't have to pay tuition and he receives a stipend, His stipend is probably around $12,000/year. He still had to take out a student loan because he just could not make ends meet otherwise, even working a part-time job in addition to graduate school. He is pretty thrifty and made a budget but found that he just could not make life work on his stipend without also getting a loan and he lives in an area with a really reasonable cost of living. Also, my brother is a STEM grad student. Stipends are pretty rare unless you're planning to earn a doctorate.
2) I don't know.
3) In my experience, grad school was mostly writing papers. My brother, however, had to take a lot of tests. His field is largely math-based so he has to prove that he knows his stuff.
4) I don't think so.
5) Like I said, in certain fields and cities, at some point, you need a graduate degree to advance in your career. I don't know many people who have doctorate degrees but tons of people have master's degrees, some people have more than one.
posted by kat518 at 6:31 PM on July 29, 2014