She won't let me have it.

November 2, 2005 9:50 AM

This girl keeps coming over, cuddles, sleeps with me, kisses me and won't let me have it. What does that mean?

After meeting her over a year ago, she came unexpectedly, no notice whatsoever, slept on my couch, and left the next morning. In the past few weeks, when she stayed the night we slept in the same bed; we cuddled and kissed but if I tried to progress any further she wouldn't let me have it. She can seem flaky but she seems genuinely interested in coming over to my place. I'm sure she's experienced and prudeness is not an issue here, but I just don't understand it. What should I do?

posted by audiologic to Human Relations (53 answers total)

asking her directly, "so...what's up with this?" would be a good start. otherwise, it just sounds like she needs some attention (flaky + genuinely interested) and you're convenient.
posted by whatitis at 9:54 AM on November 2, 2005

Is asking her what's going on not an option? It seems like a logical place to start. It would be good to find out what's going on in her mind concerning this. Good for your mind too as you could find out if she's just playing with you or is trying to start something a little more serious.
posted by LunaticFringe at 9:55 AM on November 2, 2005

Uh, have you tried asking her in less blunt terms?
posted by SpecialK at 9:55 AM on November 2, 2005

Does she have money? Maybe she's broke & staying at a few places to avoid the streets.
posted by poodlemouthe at 9:58 AM on November 2, 2005

You should ask her what's going on. Whether you're going to (a) have a sexual relationship, (b) have a continuing non-sexual relationship along the same lines. You don't have to be so blunt about it but the subject seems to have come up so just ask where it's going, if anywhere (you decide on the words, you know her better than us). It might be a good idea to have thought through whether you are comfortable with an ongoing non-sexual relationship in the same vein before you have a chat. Hey, and play nice and be honest eh? It'll make the world a nicer place. If she is being a bit shy because she'd like to think being with you isn't just about you getting some be upfront about what it is you do want.
posted by biffa at 9:59 AM on November 2, 2005

It means she's getting exactly what she wants out of the arrangement as is. Works out pretty well for her.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 9:59 AM on November 2, 2005

My first impression was that she has security issues, but then I thought, maybe you are best off just asking her what's what.
posted by mischief at 10:02 AM on November 2, 2005

You make her feel safe - she trusts you when she's asleep. As for what to do: don't get wrapped up in needing explanations - if she was inclined to give one easily or readily, she would have already.

My suggestion - if you want it to 'progress,' don't push. Just approach it obliquely and be yourself. If she only comes over late at night - try to get her to do something then other than in bed - go to Dennys, whatever.

You obviously have a quality that she needs to have 1/3 of the time - that's significant. She'll explain it in her terms eventually.
posted by Fuka at 10:04 AM on November 2, 2005

Does she have money? Maybe she's broke & staying at a few places to avoid the streets.

Yeah-- does she in fact have a place of her own?
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:09 AM on November 2, 2005

You're being used. I feel slightly less bad about this since it sounds like you're looking to use her as well, but you're being used none the less. She wants the cuddly-kissy part of intimacy, but without the pressures of either a relatioship or sex. If you're fine with that, there's not really anything wrong with it, but if you want sex, you're getting the raw end of the deal. Two solutions: either talk to her (probably necessary, but in my opinion unlikely to yield real useful results), or stop letting her sleep in your bed.

Caveat: When you talk to her, she will likely use some combination of the words "confused," "safe," "don't want to get hurt," and "slow," possibly with a side of pouty/angsty face. These, while probably not technically lies, are bullshit.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 10:09 AM on November 2, 2005 [2 favorites]

If it has only been a few weeks since the cuddling and kissing began, try a little patience.
posted by mic stand at 10:12 AM on November 2, 2005

Cuddle Bitch?
posted by gi_wrighty at 10:12 AM on November 2, 2005

Dude, you are in The Friend Zone, or maybe even on her Friends Ladder.

Either way, the emphasized word here is "friend".
posted by willmize at 10:21 AM on November 2, 2005

don't get wrapped up in needing explanations - if she was inclined to give one easily or readily, she would have already.


Come on. This is not adult behavior. Anyone over the age of 16 who engages in this behavior OWES the other party an explanation. They DO NOT owe the other party sex of any sort, intimacy, emotional invovlement, or anything they do not want to give, but one cannot carry on thusly and expect not to be questioned about one's motives. And if said other party allows the lack of communication to continue, well than said other party is a sucker and deserves whatever heartbreak or other pain comes his way.
posted by spicynuts at 10:21 AM on November 2, 2005

oops! gi_wrighty beat me to it.
posted by willmize at 10:22 AM on November 2, 2005

she may not be ready yet ... or perhaps she's waiting to see how much you really care for her before she goes further

do you two talk a lot ... not about sex, but about whatever? ... i'd try long, intimate conversations while you're cuddling ... not to have sex but to be closer ...
posted by pyramid termite at 10:24 AM on November 2, 2005

You're a sucker, is basically the issue here. Stop being a sucker and there won't be an issue.
posted by xmutex at 10:30 AM on November 2, 2005

First off, I don't like the juvenile way you phrase things and your lack of concern for her state as opposed to your ability to get your rocks off bothers me, too. Some of the people in this thread have expressed a subtext I read in your question : Why is this (bitch) manipulating me?

Let me propose the opposite:

I used to do para-professional counseling for victims of sexual abuse and assault. I DO NOT KNOW THIS PERSON you describe, nor have you described much about her. HOWEVER, I have often seen this kind of behavior, creating sexual situations but attempting to deny the sex, in people who have survived sexual abuse or assault. I think rather than try to allow her to have sex with you or manipulate her into same, you should talk with her like people say and be ATTUNED to the possibility that she may have bigger issues to deal with than whether she's attracted to you. I would not suggest asking her point-blank if she has been abused, in fact I really hope you don't, but I want to make you aware of that possibility and suggest that communication is what is needed now. If you don't want to communicate, which is the attitude your questions give off, then please just leave her alone.
posted by Slothrop at 10:32 AM on November 2, 2005

You know, I think I might have come on strong. Your question brought to mind my past experience described above and phrases like 'cuddle bitch' in conjunction with that, even inadvertently, made me see red. I re-read your question and can concede that you aren't trying to be rude necessarily.

Anyway, I do want to suggest the possibility of that this behavior might stem from more than inexperience or game-playing on her part, as I have often seen it connected to serious problems.
posted by Slothrop at 10:38 AM on November 2, 2005

What's not clear to me is, how do you feel about her? Do you want to date her? Romance? Love? Any of that stuff? If that's what you want, then you should definitely talk to her and find out what's going on. If all you want really is to get laid, then the whys of her behavior don't really matter; you apparently ain't gonna get it, and that's it, and you should probably stop engaging in such frustrating activity.
posted by JanetLand at 10:41 AM on November 2, 2005

Terribly sorry to even suggest this but:
maybe she's into you, but has an STD and doesn't want to tell you or give it to you.
Or maybe she's been recently traumatized.
Oh, Slothrop beat me to that last one.
posted by hellbient at 10:42 AM on November 2, 2005

She's taking the piss. I'd tell her to explain herself or get lost.

A little harsh maybe, but if you continue like this, you'll end up getting hurt (I'm not buying your macho 'let me have it' chat for some reason).

If I'm wrong you're just after a shag, but really like this girl, why not keep on being a flirty friend type thing (nowt wrong with that - I've had a few not-quite-sexual relationships, they're slightly odd but interesting) and find someone else to have sex with?

That said, the homeless angle seems plausible - ask around to see if she's spending nights on a lot of your mutual friends' couches, or in their beds.
posted by jack_mo at 10:42 AM on November 2, 2005

I agree with Slothrop.

I have seen this situation before, and it was due to abuse. A girl has to feel safe and to trust. Maybe she's seeing if she can trust you.

And since when did cuddling have to lead to sex?
posted by Relly70 at 10:44 AM on November 2, 2005

While I don't disagree with Slothrop on any particular point, I don't think the potential for your friend having been abused at some past point absolves her from playing head games now -- which is what she's doing.

You've sexually propositioned her -- repeatedly -- only to be repeatedly rebuffed, and she's never bothered to explain why. She certainly doesn't have to come clean about any unfortunate past -- "I'm not in this for sex" would be sufficient -- so regardless of why, she's still behaving in an immature, manipulative, and self-serving manner, and your peace of mind would be best served by you drawing a line and sticking to it.

Then again, your focus on sex to the exclusion of all other concerns and use of phrases like "won't let me have it" suggest you're not exactly operating at a adult maturity level, either. Maybe you two deserve each other.
posted by S.C. at 10:57 AM on November 2, 2005

She doesn't like you. Yes, she could be abused or have some exotic disease etc., but neither of these are statistically likely nor make much sense in your situation. After the first three or four times, it should be pretty clear that while she likes your place she doesn't particularly like you. Sure, she'll make out with you for a few minutes if it means a good night's rest, but she'll never go all the way since, presumably, then the transaction is no longer in her favor. Save yourself a bunch of confusion/anger/frustration and just end it. Nip this in the bud. Tell her to stop coming over since it confuses and frustrates you.
posted by nixerman at 11:01 AM on November 2, 2005

My first reaction was that she's less experienced than you think/than she's let on. For whatever reason, she may be on the road to wanting a more physical relationship with you but very nervous about it and therefore putting the breaks on as soon as she gets anxious.

Since you're frustrated, ask her if she's interested or what, and adjust your expectations/willingness to snuggle accordingly. I'm assuming, btw, that you like her.
posted by desuetude at 11:07 AM on November 2, 2005

With the greatest respest - Get drunk.

In vino veritas;)
posted by DrtyBlvd at 11:16 AM on November 2, 2005

It's the RAPO game from Transactional Analysis.
posted by First Post at 11:16 AM on November 2, 2005

We can speculate all day and still not hit on what's going on in her head. Simply ask her.
posted by mischief at 11:37 AM on November 2, 2005

I've had girls do this with me in the past, some ended up becoming sexual, some did not. She's either easing into it with you or is using you for a nice warm place to crash without fear (since it appears that you stop trying to "get some" when she stops you).

Is she a perpetual couch surfer? There are people that do this to get through college and I don't fault her for it but she should be more up front about what she's doing.
posted by fenriq at 11:39 AM on November 2, 2005

I recommend the general "Man, what the fuck?" conversation. I mean, seriously...?
posted by klangklangston at 11:40 AM on November 2, 2005

Come on. This is not adult behavior. Anyone over the age of 16 who engages in this behavior OWES the other party an explanation.

Are you serious? This more or less summarizes my married relationship, except we're in the same house all the time, and I'm usually on the couch except for the rare bed-times.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 11:40 AM on November 2, 2005

Are you serious? This more or less summarizes my married relationship, except we're in the same house all the time, and I'm usually on the couch except for the rare bed-times.

The simple fact that you are married does not guarantee adult behavior. Nor does it excuse the lack of communication going on here (which I emphasize BOTH parties are complicit in until the OP sacks up and opens his mouth and demands a discussion).
posted by spicynuts at 11:44 AM on November 2, 2005

The person who did this to me (a) liked me as a friend, (b) didn't like me as a boyfriend, (c) had a history of abuse, (d) was lonely and in need of affection and support.

I didn't see any problem with this. Why shouldn't two people to sleep together and cuddle and kiss? Why is it psycho or crazy or bitchy to not go further?

As far as what to do about, you could talk to her, but depending on where she's at, it could be difficult for her to talk about what she's feeling, i.e. if she's confused and uncertain then ipso facto it will be hard for her to express herself. But if she's clear and just has clear boundries, she should be able to tell you that.
posted by alms at 11:44 AM on November 2, 2005

I knew a girl like this many years ago; she told me quite frankly she had "issues with sex" and was seeing a shrink, and after a while she told me her shrink was urging her to have sex with me to "help resolve her issues." As you can imagine, this encouraged me to stick around (although it also caused me to have doubts about the shrink's professionalism); we never did wind up making the beast with two backs, but I didn't feel particularly used, since it was enjoyable as well as frustrating and I was, after all, doing my best to use her. (Let me just put in a plug for being happily married as a way to avoid all that nonsense.)

First Post's link has the following remarkable anecdote, which I wouldn't want anyone to miss:

In 1938 this writer met an ageing Joseph in Aleppo who had checked out of Constantinople thirty-two years previously after one of the Sultan's ladies had cornered him during a business visit to the Yildiz harem. He had to abandon his shop, but took time to pick up his hoard of gold francs, and had never returned.

posted by languagehat at 11:47 AM on November 2, 2005

Are you sure she is really a she?
posted by 445supermag at 12:56 PM on November 2, 2005

I used to have a cuddle buddy whom I did similar things with. We'd usually just nap together and occasionally trade kisses. But we both understood what was going on so I'd ask her what it means. She'd know better than any of us.
posted by panoptican at 1:06 PM on November 2, 2005

This same situation happened to a friend of mine, where the girl had a "boyfriend" and refused to get rid of him. After college, she lost the "boyfriend" and had a brief, lacklustre fling with my pal. They are no longer friends.
posted by MrZero at 1:10 PM on November 2, 2005

Yes, she could be abused or have some exotic disease etc., but neither of these are statistically likely nor make much sense in your situation.,

Er, sexual abuse is quite high, about 20% of college age women report having been raped, statistics among older women range from 50% - 65% having experienced some for of sexual assault. The FBI estimates only between 1/3 and 1/4 of sexual assaults are reported.

So. "Statically speaking" it is entirely possible this has occurred despite the previous comment to the contrary.

This is not to be taken, as saying THIS IS THE CASE with the lady in question, rather, to counter the dismissive claim.

As well A recent the CDC report documented that over 85% of the most common infectious diseases in the U.S. are sexually transmitted. FWIW
posted by edgeways at 1:41 PM on November 2, 2005

Possibly psychic vampirism. She might feed on your frustration. Don't let her unless you really want to.
posted by baphomet at 1:50 PM on November 2, 2005

You gotta talk about it. Ask her. Ask as if you really want to know, even though by now you're pretty frustrated and confused. Don't argue or challenge her, just nod, say mm hmm, listen until she's done. Do what you can to really understand.

Then you can explain your side of things, and reasonably expect her to listen to you just as attentively.
posted by wryly at 1:56 PM on November 2, 2005

edgeways: sexual abuse is quite high, about 20% of college age women report having been raped

Sorry, but that has got to be a bullshit stat. One in 5?! The stat is either untrue/urban legend, or the women are lying, or the definition of "rape" has been expanded to include even things like a too-firm handshake... Or there's a handful of guys out there who are raping the shit out of hundreds of women. I find it hard to believe that 1 in 5 or even 1 in 10 guys are rapists, because I know I sure as hell am not a rapist, and it's stretching credibility to sincerely imagine that the people I know are secretly capable of such things.

So if the stat is true, which I'll bet it isn't.. I'm going for the "few rotten apples" theory. To which I'd ask, why do the women keep allowing these psychos into their bedrooms? Ladies, if the "bad boys" are raping you, stop going after the "bad boys"!!!


As for the posted question: I'd suspect she's using you, but yes: fucking ask her already! It stuns me how many Ask MeFi questions boil down to "Hi anonymous MeFites. There's this person you don't know at all who is doing stuff, here are a few random tidbits of information from my biased point of view. So: What are they thinking in their head?" We're not long-distance mindreaders. What's the deal with people being so goddamned afraid to simply talk to people!?

Look, maybe she'll give you a full explanation that you're satisfied with... or maybe she'll give you a line of vague bullshit meant to keep you guessing and hoping, and discourage you from making a decision or telling her she's not welcome to come over anymore. In either case, if you're happy with just cuddling, be happy with it. Since it sounds like you're not and you want more, or feel that if you're going to cuddle with someone it should be someone who is a full-fledged girlfriend who will cuddle some nights but go all the way on other nights... well, then go get a real girlfriend. She's not going to sleep with you, this isn't some extended foreplay. She's intentionally limiting the extent of your contact to the cuddling, and that's her right. But it's your right to refuse, and not let irrational hope for more guide your thinking. The first time Ms. Cuddle Bunny wants to come over and you're busy making the beast with two backs with another woman, she won't find your bed so comforting anymore.

Nor should she- you aren't her emotional baggage handler.

posted by hincandenza at 2:53 PM on November 2, 2005

hincandenza: Fair enough, however I didn't arrive at that stat independently. It is quite widely reported. Incidences of false reporting (lying) average 1-2%, and as mentioned the FBI believes sexual assault/rape tends to be underreported

1
2
3
4 Sexual assault statistics including female college students have been the subject of various studies. In a 1988 national study involving 32 college campuses, one in four students was found to be a victim of rape or attempted rape. Some studies have suggested. . .

5

There is some of my sources, yours?
posted by edgeways at 3:17 PM on November 2, 2005

OT: This is the full study that edgeways is referring to, put out by the US Department of Justice. The questions asked that determined if rape or attempted rape had happened focused on "different form[s] of penetration in which force or the threat of harm was used." which discounts firm handshakes. Page five has the list of questions that were used. My anecdotal college experiences don't go against these sorts of numbers.

To the question: this happened to me with a guy I was friendly with. I wanted to get into his pants, he was more interested in kissing/hugging sessions. I did have the "WTF?" discussion with him and he said that he was just sort of slow and/or getting to know me. As it turns out, I was just not the right gal for him. He later met the right gal and was not so slow/deliberate with her. Upshot? Who knows why people do things, but if the situation is not to your liking, feel free to tell your friend this.
posted by jessamyn at 3:37 PM on November 2, 2005

To continue the derail slightly...

The inherent problem with reporting statistics such as the above regarding rape is the tester's definition of the term.

In the 1990's various groups were defining "date" or "acquaintance" rape quite broadly. Nothing gets white suburbia scared more than some high number statistics.

From one of edgeways' links:

* One in four college women surveyed are victims of rape or attempted rape

* One in six female college students reported having been a victim of rape or attempted rape during the preceeding year


From the same study:

* 42% of the women who were raped said they had sex again with the men who assaulted them

* 84% of college men who committed rape said that what they did was definitely not rape

* 90% of acquaintance rapes involve alcohol


Now, yes...obviously a rapist is going to say that they are innocent. However, I would suggest that when you have that sort of huge disparity in numbers (25% of women are victims, 84% of the offending men claim innocence, alcohol factoring into 90% of cases), then your questioning, your respondents' memories and your definition of "rape" all play huge parts in the outcome of your study.

Rape, especially date rape, is a very serious issue on campuses, but when the definition of such that is used in a study includes any sort of "coersion," then you are very much open to interpretation.

I mean... I'm pretty certain that many MeFites of both genders have, at one point or another, and in healthy relationships, had sex when they weren't 100% in the mood because their partner wanted to. According to this study, you're a rape victim on the grounds of having been talked into the act.

I would wager the incidence of actual date rape is fairly high. But without sampling data, statistical analysis and presentation of questions asked, it is quite fair to assume that these studies are inflated.
posted by kaseijin at 4:05 PM on November 2, 2005

Audiologic,

What are you leaving out? 'Cause all you've done is draw a very vague picture of a very vague situation.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 PM on November 2, 2005

To which I'd ask, why do the women keep allowing these psychos into their bedrooms? Ladies, if the "bad boys" are raping you, stop going after the "bad boys"!!!

Uh, that's not cool. I'm not Miss Priss PC by any means, but this makes you sound like an asshole. Sorry. FYI.

Back on track...let's not forget that the girl can have a damaged view of relationships/intimacy that would cause her to seek out this intentionally safe-but-desired thing even without having been personally assulted in the past.
posted by desuetude at 4:26 PM on November 2, 2005

Could it be she's saving herself for marriage? Or she's not on the pill and/or doesn't believe in contraceptives or the effectiveness of condoms. As so many have suggested already, just ask her. If you have a decent relationship that has any chances of going anywhere -- that is, if she truly trusts you -- she'll tell you why she's acting this way.
posted by Seabird at 6:41 PM on November 2, 2005

since it appears that you stop trying to "get some" when she stops you

I should hope so!

I don't have anything else to add, except that 445whatver is a dick.
posted by crabintheocean at 7:05 PM on November 2, 2005

I'd say it's exactly as LittleMissCranky says. If you want it to progress, ask her what's up. If she gives you a run around, drop her, it won't go well.
posted by sinical at 7:34 PM on November 2, 2005

Not to sound old-fashioned or anything but typically with classy women, you have to do something special before you actually get the sexxor. You know, a candlelight dinner, romantic evening, flowers, etc. With trailer trash, a couple beers will suffice but sex is never free. Kissing, cuddling, or sleeping over is never a prerequisite to sex. Anyone who thinks it is and that "she is a manipulating, screwed up bitch" needs to get some help. Even the prairie chicken needs to do a hell of a lot of singing, dancing, and fighting to get laid.
posted by JJ86 at 12:11 AM on November 3, 2005

Kissing, cuddling, or sleeping over is never a prerequisite to sex.

K, I got a little carried away.

Edit: Kissing, cuddling, or sleeping over is not always a prerequisite to sex.
posted by JJ86 at 12:16 AM on November 3, 2005

I would not suggest asking her point-blank if she has been abused, in fact I really hope you don't

What? Why? If you're planning on having sex with someone, this seems like the kind of thing you'd want to know ahead of time. Are you supposed to be a mind-reader?

I think more men should ask their girlfriends about this. They might learn things that would surprise them and are probably better out in the open anyway. Not asking is just reinforcing the awful stigma that surrounds sexual abuse: the idea that a woman, once abused, is somehow ruined and no longer fit for society. That idea is nonsense and ought to be done away with.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:46 AM on November 3, 2005