weirdoes in love

October 24, 2005 3:11 PM

How to argue with a man who calls himself a sociopath.

So the love of my life happens to have a somewhat odd personality (but one I'm sure many of you out there can relate to), which I love him for but which doesn't always interact well with my odd personality. He's the "unemotional" type -- that is, he has emotions, but he doesn't express them so much, and he has a really hard time understanding and dealing with others when they are being "emotional." As in, when we argue I tend to get all worked up and frustrated and upset, which drives him nuts because he hates to see me upset, and because he feels he just can't argue that way.

These are generally fights over small things that I know full well that I blow out of proportion, but it bothers him and makes him feel that he's not good for me (when in fact he makes me incredibly happy and I'm just a little too attached to having things my way.)

Sometimes he even talks about giving up on people entirely and going away to Alaska somewhere where he doesn't have to deal with the rest of us and our crazy emotions. He's definitely loving, but way more logical, certainly more Zen, in his approach to argument.

Advice from anyone on how I can be better at this, maybe even make him feel less inept rather than more? Or at least refrain from making his occasional nihilistic despair worse?

posted by e^2 to human relations (23 comments total)

I suspect that he's not a sociopath. He's a hyper-rationalist and may well suffer from Asperger's or mild autism; that is, he has difficulty responding to emotional cues and also suppresses his own emotions.

I bet that he's pretty scary when he does flip out, too. Am I right?
posted by solid-one-love at 3:16 PM on October 24, 2005

Never seen him flip out -- he has heavy metal for that. ^_~
posted by e^2 at 3:18 PM on October 24, 2005

This is a toughy. Try therapy maybe? It can work wonders, even for the hyper rational.
posted by corpse at 3:31 PM on October 24, 2005

Uh, why don't you just try to be less emotional yourself?

If you get mad about something go off somewhere alone, and try to think things through rationally. Come back and be willing to debate your position in a detached manner the same way he does, or if you can't convince him you're right drop it or break up with him.

Honestly, It would irritate anyone to have someone be flipping out over minor problems all the time, which you seem to be claiming you do. So, just stop doing that.
posted by delmoi at 3:42 PM on October 24, 2005

It doesn't sound like he has no emotions -- it sounds like he's very emotional, and gets overwhelmed by it. He could try learning to tolerate those emotions instead of getting freaked out by them.

I would also ask why you're placing so much emphasis on having arguments in the first place? Perhaps he's just a guy who hates to argue -- can you live with that? I know there's this conventional wisdom out there that says that arguments are necessary in relationships, but I don't think this has to be true.
posted by footnote at 3:51 PM on October 24, 2005

I don't think blowing things out of proportion is a particularly healthy relationship trait, and that might be a thing you need to work on from your end.

Otherwise, your description of your partner sounds in some ways like a previous partner of mine who had Asperger's Syndrome (see many previous AskMefi threads). There's not a lot of good literature about it in a relationship context, but you might want to do some research. Even if he doesn't fit in any other way, it might give you some useful perspective on people who don't relate well to emotional displays and trying to interpret the emotional states of other people.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:02 PM on October 24, 2005

when we argue I tend to get all worked up and frustrated and upset, which drives him nuts because he hates to see me upset, and because he feels he just can't argue that way. [...] it bothers him and makes him feel that he's not good for me (when in fact he makes me incredibly happy and I'm just a little too attached to having things my way.) [...] He's definitely loving, but way more logical, certainly more Zen, in his approach to argument.

I've known at least one bonafide sociopath (a former roommate! Boy, that was a joy!) and have a hunch that at least two other people in my life had sociopathic tendencies. Based on your details/descriptions, your boyfriend doesn't sound anything remotely like a sociopath at all. He sounds very logical, very non-argumentative, and quite sensitive, none of which is pathological.

You keep mentioning how much you blow things out of proportion and have to have things your own way. I personally think that that's what you should be concentrating on, frankly. Also, it might help for you to consider that just because someone doesn't like to argue passionately doesn't make them unfeeling (I, for example, postively hate arguments, but am quite an expressive, emotional person). There are a whole range of emotions besides anger, and a whole range of ways to express those emotions besides getting "all worked up and frustrated and upset."
posted by scody at 4:14 PM on October 24, 2005

Question: why would someone described as "loving," suffering from "despair," who feels "nuts" and unworthy when he gets in conflict with his girlfriend have Aspergers? Seems like Asbergers is becoming the catch-all internet diagnosis for introverts...
posted by footnote at 4:17 PM on October 24, 2005

gah! "there IS a whole range of emotions..." [/hyper-rationalist editor]
posted by scody at 4:17 PM on October 24, 2005

Question

A pathological difficulty dealing with, empathizing with or recognizing the emotions of others or of oneself is one of the primary diagnostic criteria for Asperger's. People with Asperger's can still love, despair and feel nuts.

I think your definition of introversion may differ from the norm; as many introvrts as extroverts have perfectly 'normal' emotional lives. Introversion relates to sociability, not dealing with emotions.
posted by solid-one-love at 4:32 PM on October 24, 2005

Scody's advice is by far the most reasonable. It seems you need to work keeping yourself more rational, rather than on making your boyfriend less rational.

For what it's worth, I also agree footnote; like ADD yesterday, Asperger's seems like the illness du jour that everybody seems to be suffering from all of a sudden. And talking about blowing things out of proportion, your boyfriend does not sound like a sociopath, give the poor guy a break!
posted by sic at 4:39 PM on October 24, 2005

Forget the diagnostic labels. Your boyfriend is not a sociopath. That means antisocial (criminal), impulsive, and without regard for others. He hardly sounds like that. Yet he is the one calling himself that. He is deeply mistaken. it appears more an expression of either trouble in the relationship with you or trouble in the relationship with himself. Is this who he always is in all situations for a long time? Is he depressed and down on himself generally? Do you love him? Does he love you?

He, or you, calls him "inept". That is more damning than sociopath. Sociopaths are ususally not in pain in the neurotic sense (self-estranged). I would also back away from the Asperger's stuff as you indicate nothing that would support that.

People who feel inept long to feel "ept", don't you think? Without knowing the details of his work life and background of accomplishments or lack thereof, or age, I would recommend less confrontation and more positive regard for who he is as a person and focus on his abilities and talents and potentials to be the person he would like to be, besides an alaskan zen hermit.
posted by madstop1 at 4:40 PM on October 24, 2005

solid-one-love: I realize this is somewhat of a false syllogism, but is there such a thing as an extroverted person with Aspergers, according to your definition of Aspergers?
posted by footnote at 4:47 PM on October 24, 2005

according to your definition of Aspergers?

I didn't define Asperger's. I stated some of the diagnostic criteria. I have no idea if extroverts have Asperger's. I don't really care, since we're not talking about an extrovert and I wasn't talking about introversion.
posted by solid-one-love at 4:55 PM on October 24, 2005

Small point of defense: he, not I, uses that label, claims that he "doesn't have emotions," half the time, admits to them the other half, worries about whether what he feels as "love" is the same as what other people feel as love.

I do not think he's a sociopath at all. I'm just concerned about his image of himself over this, and well aware that unnecessary fighting doesn't help. I was hoping for some insight as to how to better relate when (very very rarely) fighting about important things, and better to understand him and support him in general with his fears.
posted by e^2 at 4:56 PM on October 24, 2005

Your situation sounds familiar to me. If I had to forward a suggestion, maybe think of it in terms of why each of you respond the way you do. Perhaps the things that you get emotional about are not the things that he feels "emotions" about. For example, I used to fight with an ex, and it was difficult because the things that set us off were different. I would get furious about things like spending money, and bill payment, and she just didn't understand or care, really, in an emotional way. The conflict was emotionally one-sided, even though we were both in the argument. Conversely, she would get upset about things where I'm sure I responded like an unemotional robot because I simply had no emotion vested in the argument, like her sister's wedding, or whatever. One we understood that we simply had different levels of caring about various issues, and that didn't invalidate our arguments, we were much happier.
posted by loquax at 4:58 PM on October 24, 2005

Wow, sounding even more familiar. I have to say, if I'm reading you right, this is really hard to reconcile. It's very difficult to "change" the way either you or he "feels" about things. You can fake it for a while, but eventually the emotional gulf becomes too large to bridge, I think. That's what happened to me anyways, we were just rarely on the same emotional page. I think it's a matter of unconditional acceptance, if you feel strongly enough, and let him feel comfortable expressing himself as much or as little as he wants to, while you do the same, but never criticize his style of response, only the content, if that makes sense.
posted by loquax at 5:03 PM on October 24, 2005

Make him take a Meyers-Briggs type sorter, such as the Keirsey test, then have him read about his 'type' and its strengths and weaknesses. This can be accomplished online in many different places.
posted by ikkyu2 at 6:51 PM on October 24, 2005

Are you sure the things you get really upset about are no big deal? Or do you have a boyfriend who gets his way by making you feel emotional and irrational for having needs and saying "he's no good for you" and calling himself a sociopath in order to refuse to negotiate or compromise on something you care about? That sounds like a veiled threat to leave you if you continue to get upset over things he doesn't want to deal with.

Why are you posing this question as "what can I do to be better and how can I help him feel better about being a sociopath?" What are you fighting about and what makes his way of dealing with things innately better than yours?

Make sure you really are getting emotional over nothing, and if that's the case you should worry about helping yourself (as an individual - not as a partner who needs to be fixed) and not worry about helping him. Unless you really are being a high maintenance princess (in which case stop), don't twist yourself around to cater to someone who makes you feel bad or "crazy" about your emotions. Find someone who'll make you happy or at least talk respectfully and compromise with you on things you need and doesn't make excuses about it so that you feel like you have to suppress your feelings in order to be with them. Enough pathologizing.
posted by Marnie at 7:56 PM on October 24, 2005

gah! "there IS a whole range of emotions..." [/hyper-rationalist editor]

You wouldn't say "there is a whole bunch of emotions" or "there is a whole lot of dogs," would you? This can be taken as a phrasal pluralizer in the same way. Depends on how you view it: are you emphasizing the unit or the separate emotions? In context, seems like the latter; hence, plural. [/tolerant editor]
posted by languagehat at 7:08 AM on October 25, 2005

I've been there. I'm that guy. I would never describe myself as a sociopath (or autistic, or Asperger's), but I do tend to be emotionally cool, logical, socially inept. I used to be incredibly bad at reading other people, and to keep my emotional state firmly tamped down I was with a woman for five years who is the opposite--emotionally very raw, as if there's a permanent open wound over her heart.

Many of the "arguments" (very one-sided, where she'd have a crying jag and I'd look at her curiously wondering what the big deal is) we'd get into would be triggered by something minor, but those were really nothing more than triggers--there would be something deeper bothering her that she didn't really apprehend at a conscious level.

It took a long time--and ultimately did not work out--but the relationship eventually turned out to be good for both of us. I got a lot better at reading people and didn't keep my own emotions in permanent lockdown. She became better at dealing with emotional issues on an intellectual level. What worked? Time and a belief on both our parts that it was worth sticking out.
posted by adamrice at 7:24 AM on October 25, 2005

To me, the guy sounds very stereotypically male with some self-confidence issues on the side. He's also probably prone to depression. It sounds like he actually cares how he affects you when you argue, so he's probably a good person. Just let him know not to take it too personally when you're blowing off steam and tell him to be a little more honest with himself.
posted by mikeh at 9:59 AM on October 25, 2005

I was once in a relationship that sounds similar to what you're describing. (Actually it sounds more like what Marnie describes above.) Not a healthy place to be.

But, if you're looking for ways to be able to express to him that you're unhappy about something without him freaking out (my own words; I realize you didn't use this phrase) I do have a suggestion. Try writing to him. This is what I'd do with my ex. I had a notebook that I'd write letters to him in. It was easier for me to actually get across what I was feeling and thinking than it was when we were actually in an argument because those things that come up when being "too emotional" (i.e. tears) don't get in the way. It was then easier for him to focus on what was important, too.

He'd read what I'd written and _then_ we'd have a talk. Instead of a fight.
posted by INTPLibrarian at 12:17 PM on October 25, 2005