Help me pick a new desktop?

October 24, 2005 8:37 AM

I need help putting together what I need in a computer, could you help me?

I currently work off an old refurbished IBM workstation using Win98. I like it, and it's served me well for about five years. But my mother has decided that with part of an inheritence, she'd like to buy me a new computer. Exciting! Poking around various websites, they have different packages for different types of users. I was wondering what would be good for myself, and not being hardware savvy, I'm asking you guys.

I'd like to stay with Windows. I know Apple has some really good products, but I just like Windows.

Programs I tend to have open all the time:
Notetab
Firefox
Opera
Paint Shop Pro 7
LJ/JF update client
Aim - several windows
Art Rage

I'd like to be able to do/use:
SIMS 2
iPod
Photoshop CS or PSP X
Watch movies or television shows
Make my own CDs
Maybe use a webcam

I'm a pretty heavy user, I'm online a good chunk of the day with a broadband connection. I tend to save a lot of txt and graphic files. I'd like to be able to start teaching my toddler son how to use the mouse.

Suggestions for brands, amount of memory, processors, OS, etc very welcome. It would be easier to pick something out, if I had a list of what I need to hold up against what is being offered.

Please and thank you.

posted by FunkyHelix to computers & internet (22 comments total)

If you're doing a fair amount of graphics processing and like to keep a lot of tasks open, get a box with minimum 512 megs of RAM. Go for a full gig if money isn't an issue -- never having to worry about heavy disk-thrashing is excellent.

Other than that? Brand preferences aside, it sounds like you could buy just about any PC made in the last couple years and be fine. One processor is fine for almost everything, and is a bit simpler to deal with than a multi-proc setup. Win XP as an OS. A CD-RW drive is pretty much standard equipment these days. Webcam? No sweat. USB is also very, very standard, and most webcams are pretty much plug-and-play USB devices.

As far as your desire to "watch movies or television shows", do you mean you want to watch, say, prerecorded .mpeg and .mov files? Commercial DVDs? Normal broadcast/cable television programming via your computer? If it's just the former two, again, standard equipment pretty much -- make sure the box comes with a DVD drive. If it's the latter, you'll need a TV tuner card, which comes bundled in as a feature with a fair number of video cards these days. Someone else here is going to know more details about that.

If you want to run with the dartboard approach, you could reasonably go to Dell's website (or that of another company) and check out mid-range systems. $1000 bucks should get you a very solid normal-human-being system -- if you're not a pretty serious gamer (and it sounds like you're not), avoid throwing chunks of money at Gamer-oriented systems -- the difference between a $1200 home system and a $3500 gamer system is about $2000 of video card, silly-fast processor, and other tweaked hardware that yields diminishing returns on cutting-edge prices.
posted by cortex at 8:52 AM on October 24, 2005

(All that said, if you *do* want to spend money slightly less practically, drop extra cash on a nice big flatscreen monitor as your first luxury expense. That may require a bit of shopping around -- again, someone else here will know more than I do on the subject.)
posted by cortex at 8:54 AM on October 24, 2005

Anything above 2.5Ghz, 512Mb RAM, and a ATI 9800 (or Nvidia equivilant) should do you fine.

Also worth considering, is a DVD-RW drive, or rather a DVD-DL drive. if you have a kid your probably going to make some home movies that you'll want as DVDs (or maybe make copies of and kids movies you have on DVD - so junior wont get them all covered in jam!)
posted by lemonfridge at 8:55 AM on October 24, 2005

I'd suggest at least a gig of ram, especially if you're going to have all those programs open at the same time.
posted by null terminated at 9:00 AM on October 24, 2005

A gig would be better. I was just suggesting a minimum.

I wouldnt be worried about getting more than what you need. I used to get by just fine on a 5Bg HDD, but yesterday I installed a 200Gb HDD to compliment my filled 120Gb!
posted by lemonfridge at 9:13 AM on October 24, 2005

Basic theory of computer buying: The price performance curve looks like a hockey stick. That is, it goes along at slope X, and then at a certain point of performance, price starts going up faster at slope Y.

Another way to say this: A $1000 computer is considerably better than a $500 one, but a $3000 computer is NOT considerably better than a $2500 one.

I tend to buy computers at the bend in the curve. Since things change quickly in the hardware world, generally you have to research each purchase a bit to find out exactly where the curve is today.

I think Dell makes good machines at reasonable prices. For an unsophisticated buyer like you, I would stick with Dell.

If you do not have a large (17"+) LCD monitor, I would buy one. They're nice, in a lot of ways.

Dell is selling desktops with a 19" LCD included for $900. Yowza. Not so long ago, the 19" LCD cost $900 itself.

Everything on your list is easy (you can do it with any computer you buy) except for the "watch movies or television shows". If you download things, no problem. If you're talking about watching broadcast/cable TV as it happens, on your PC, you need what is called a TV tuner card, which is not standard equipment. Dell or whoever would be happy to sell you one.

You don't need anything crazy. You don't need a ludicrously large hard drive. 512Mb of RAM will be fine unless you're some kind of crazy Photoshop demon. You won't be able to tell the difference between a P4 running at 2.8GHz and one running at 3.0GHz. But I would aim for the $1000 price point rather than the $500 price point.
posted by jellicle at 9:15 AM on October 24, 2005

My advice, assuming you are buying a new monitor with your setup, would be to get the best monitor you can afford, because a good monitor can last you through several computer upgrades. 10 years of service is not unusual. I gave a 17" CRT I bought ~1995 to a friend of mine, and it's still going strong a year later.

I'd second Dell for general ease of purchase and bang for the buck. (I have heard complaints about their telephone support, but I never use that anyway.) Anything you buy new from their site will be a vast, vast improvement over what you have now, and even the low end $350 computers will run the programs you describe.

More eye-popping are some of the deals they've been offering in the past few weeks. Jellicle mentioned a $900 deal with a 19" monitor. I just got a Dell Dimension 9100 (one of their better consumer models aside from their super-expensive gaming computers) and a 24" widescreen LCD for $1199 last week, which is ridiculously good considering their regular price on a 24" LCD by itself is $1199. I'd imagine that deal will roll around again in the coming days, because they've been alternating the $900 deal described above with the $1199 deal every three or four days.

FYI, this month is another end of a financial quarter for Dell, so they throw out all kinds of great deals to pump up their sales to look good for stockholders. It may be wise to just kind of haunt their site (as well as deal sites like Fatwallet over the coming days to see what pops up.
posted by MegoSteve at 9:38 AM on October 24, 2005

P.S. I highly recommend a DVD burner vs. a conventional CD burner, too. DVD burners do burn and play CDs if you'd like that, but CD burners cannot burn or play DVDs.
posted by MegoSteve at 9:40 AM on October 24, 2005

If you have a lot of applications going at the same time, and money is (relatively) no object, then having two (flat-screen, aka LCD) monitors is significantly better than one. A pair of 19" or 24" monitors plus a reasonable computer (1 GB of memory; memory is cheap) would cost you on the order of $2,500 to $4,000. (From a technical viewpoint, I think you need two video cards as well, but I'm not sure.)

Avoid CRT monitors unless you're on a real budget - a 19" CRT monitor, for example, weighs a lot (hard to move) and takes up a lot of desk space.
posted by WestCoaster at 9:56 AM on October 24, 2005

A lot of memory (768mb is a practical minimum, 512mb won't do it), a nice display, the processor doesn't matter at all.

Do you have a budget that is in line with the prices already mentioned here? If not, you can hit the $300-400 USD price range (without monitor) if you watch fatwallet and pick up one of the ubber cheap Dell deals. For about $100 USD you can get a fast PIII used/off lease dell/compaq/hp machine (without monitor again) - with enough memory a PIII will do everything you ask for easily!

Dual CPUs is awesome! A lot of haters will tell you that applications can't take advantage of it, but that is a straw man. The reason dual CPUs is awesome is reduced latency when multitasking. Unfortunately, you need to be an enthusiast to get 2 cpus on the cheap, at least for now.
posted by Chuckles at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2005

Really none of those programs are going to need much hardware at all. I find that it is better to buy a reasonable computer now and expect to upgrade in a couple of years than trying to be "future-proof". I agree with what everyone else is saying, just buy a reasonably priced dell. Don't buy the cheap $350, buy the one just above that.

My only advice is to stay away from the celeron processors. They are crap. You really won't need 1 gig of ram either, 512 will be just fine IMO.
posted by meta87 at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2005

If you ever plan to add or improve parts of your computer (ram, video/sound card, network card, processor) I wouldn't buy Dell. I've been through several, and they don't stand the test of time, nor do they upgrade easily. I'm guessing the same is true for Gateway, although they use to be very flexible.

I very strongly suggest/encourage you to go with Alienware. They'll give you some support as a buyer, especially with regard to graphics, and they aren't just for video gamers... they have a buy back program, and they build pcs with upgrading and changing in mind...
posted by ewkpates at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2005

If you're reasonably technical, building a machine from parts will save you a LOT of money. I've priced out machines I've built vs. getting as close to those specs (if they're even available as options) from a vendor, and it usually comes in at around 40% of the cost. Granted, it takes more time, and if something breaks you have to diagnose it and replace it yourself, but I've always done most of that myself even with vendor support.

Most of the product links are outdated, but I wrote a guide to building a machine from parts a while back.

The actual assembly process is not hard and there are plenty of good guides out there. If you buy hardware, you're also eligible for buying Windows XP at the OEM price, which is a lot cheaper than the retail price.
posted by Caviar at 10:34 AM on October 24, 2005

My only advice is to stay away from the celeron processors.

meta87 - that's not strictly true anymore. The Celeron D line is actually pretty good.
posted by Caviar at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2005

RAM is so cheap that a gig of it is, IMHO, a no-brainer. You will notice a substantial improvement in performance with a gig of RAM over half a gig.

IMHO, don't go with Alienware. You will pay too much for it. You will get substantially the same computer if you have a local shop build one for you for as little as half the price.

And that's what I would suggest: have a local shop build one for you. Ask around to see who is reputable, piece it out and have it built. I build my own machines from pieces and always come up with something better than what you could get at the local Best Buy or Gateway or whatever -- and I do it for a better price and my machines are upgradable.

You should be able to buy a 3.0 Ghz machine with a gig of RAM, a nice case with a 450W power supply, a 250 GB SATA hard drive, a decent 256 MB video card and a DVD burner for $700 US, give or take, plus the cost of your operating system. Your motherboard will have an ethernet port and sound built in; a sound card is not a necessity, even if you're watching video, but if you're ever going to play high-end games, I would pick up an Audigy to take the load off the CPU.

For processors, either go for a non-Celeron Intel CPU or an AMD Athlon. Either is fine; I have used both in the last month, and have found no difference in performance between an Athlon 3200 and an Intel 3.2GHz machine loaded with similar features.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:45 AM on October 24, 2005

Some other things to think about:

* Form factor. If you are not one to monkey around the insides of your computer, a SFF box such as a Shuttle XPC might be a good idea.

* Noise. It might be worthwhile to you to spend some extra on a case and power supply just to kill the white-noise hum. The Shuttle XPC again is a good bet.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2005

An important consideration: do you like the idea of futzing around with this beyond the effort required to click "add to my cart"?

I ask this because if the answer is no, a lot of otherwise spot-on advice in this thread should be pretty much ignored outright. Specifically regarding parting a computer together on your own, the cash savings require an investment of time, energy, and potential frustration, especially if you're not already experienced with PC construction.

I'm saying this in case you're non-savvy, FunkyHelix, because if you haven't pieced a box together by hand before you may not appreciate what you could be getting yourself into.

On the other hand, it can be pretty interesting and satisfying (and, yes, cost-saving) to do it yourself. I'm throwing this caveat out as someone who hasn't bought a stock desktop in years. If the agony and the thrill (and the patience!) of the DIY angle has some appeal to you, by all means grab your balls and jump in.

If you want to a computer use more than you want to have a computer to build and tinker with, seriously consider buying a major-brand box deal or perhaps a constructed-to-order box from a local store with a good reputation.
posted by cortex at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2005

Note on The Sims 2:

If you go with the sort of stuff folks are recomending (3 gig processor, 512MB to 1GB of RAM, etc.), I'm sure you won't have any trouble playing the game. However, if you want to capture high quality/resolution video from the game (a feature included in the game), that may not cut it. I'm running an AMD 2800 chip, 1 GB of RAM and a 128 MB video card, but full quality video capture during a game of Sims 2 slows the play down to about 5 frames per second.
posted by Clay201 at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2005

To future proof:

- motherboard with PCI express (PCI-E) instead of AGP
- the NVidia 6600GT is probably the best bang-for-buck video card right now
- motherboard with Serial ATA (SATA) support
- at least a gig of quality RAM. In one module if possible instead of 4x256M or 2x512M modules. You get what you pay for. ECC and registered if you can afford it.
- the best monitor that you can afford (CRT or LCD, per personal preference)
- USB 2.0, firewire optional if you have any devices that support it.
- if you want a wireless card, go for the 'g' specification (or whatever is highest right now)

I personally like AMD chips, but the Pentium-M is a seriously quality CPU and you can find motherboards that will support the Pentium Mobile. Stay away from celeries (Celerons) - they're worthless.

Onboard (part of the motherboard) sound is "acceptable" but offerings by Creative (like the Audigy) can enhance your gameplay experience. Also, the quality of the speakers you get for it will also be a factor.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 12:53 PM on October 24, 2005

A few component picks for you based on my own biases and experience:

Socket 939 AMD64 CPU; dual channel memory, good choice of processors, all pretty frugal in power usage and heat, and all quite speedy. I love my X2 but that might be a little overkill unless you really love smooth heavy multitasking. Stock cooling's easy to install, pretty quiet and effective.

nForce 4 PCI-Express motherboard; decent chipset, good enough for Sun. PCI-E has a bright future and will pay off if you ever have a need for GigE or more than a couple of HD's.

2*1GB PC3200 branded memory; I go for Crucial every time, and they guarantee it will work with your chosen motherboard. Slightly overkill perhaps, but worth it for graphics and movie apps and keeping hot data cached.

Quality PSU. 400W, say, with Active PFC and preferably made by Tagan, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, Enermax, or some other non-cheapo brand.

Seagate SATA 7200.8, sized to taste; good quality, quiet and reliable, and has NCQ to complement the nForce 4 controller. Even better, get two and RAID-1 them using the nVidia RAID stuff. You'll get better read performance when multitasking and a lower risk of data loss.

A nVidia 6600GT will probably do you fine; supports all those yummy DirectX 9 features, is pretty fast, not too expensive, has passively cooled models, and shouldn't break the bank. Goes well with the nForce 4 and keeps the number of seperate driver vendors down.

Antec make quite nice, pretty cheap cases. Look for something with nice big quiet 120mm fans, and HD cooling (sadly often overlooked) like the Solution range.

Plextor generally have the best reputation as far as optical drives are concerned. Pay a little extra for an SATA one and you'll never know the mild pain of ribbon cables and jumpers.

Monitor wise, I'm favouring TFT's now; something from NEC or LG with DVI and the full 16.7m colour range should do the trick. I have a pair of 20" NEC 2070NX's and a 17" LG L1710B and they all blow my 19" Iiyama CRT out of the water. If your mother's rich, get two and a (single) card with dual DVI outputs for multimonitor.

Onboard sound is perfectly sufficient for most purposes. If quality music playback is your concern, a card based on the Via Envy24HT like this Audiotrak is a good choice. For games, Creative perhaps have a vague edge with their (IME rubbish) EAX stuff, but I generally frown on their design quality, drivers, support, and anticompetetive behavior.

Ground yourself, fit the bits together in the logical fashion, boot XP Pro CD, install, install nVidia drivers, install AMD64 Cool'n'Quiet drivers, fiddle to taste.
posted by Freaky at 1:27 PM on October 24, 2005

I just bought an Antec case and quite like it, although it was actually too quiet for my liking (!) until I installed the another fan in the front for hard drive cooling.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:58 PM on October 24, 2005

I feel the need to say this again, given the chorus of remarks to about celerons.

"CELERON D" != "CELERON".

Anandtech has a good article about this: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.html?i=2093.

Particularly note the "Percent Improvement Over Celeron" chart: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2093&p=5.
posted by Caviar at 3:27 PM on October 30, 2005