ID Please
October 24, 2005 7:03 AM Subscribe
Dear ID Checkers: How can you tell when someone borrows a license from a brother or friend who looks similar? What do you do when you suspect the person in the ID is not the person in front of you? This is just to satisfy my curiousity of course.
No comments on legality/morality/politics/alcoholism please.
No comments on legality/morality/politics/alcoholism please.
Best answer: The first thing that I always checked was the height/weight/eye color. If these are too far off (i.e. if the person isn't taking off a few pounds for vanity's sake), I'd get very suspicious. Also, the way that the person reacts when I question the ID - this was always a dead giveaway.
Because I was a server when I was younger (and using fake IDs myself), I would just deny service...I wouldn't call the police or take the ID away. But that's just me...
posted by elquien at 7:10 AM on October 24, 2005
Because I was a server when I was younger (and using fake IDs myself), I would just deny service...I wouldn't call the police or take the ID away. But that's just me...
posted by elquien at 7:10 AM on October 24, 2005
Always know the zodiac sign that goes with the birthdate on your fake ID.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:11 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:11 AM on October 24, 2005
Best answer: I've heard some try to catch the suspected faker out in the following ways:
Asking for a second piece of ID with their name on it like a credit card.
Asking what their sign is-- they probably remember what date is on the ID, but do they know what star sign that's under? Almost everyone knows their own sign.
posted by justkevin at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by justkevin at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2005
I'd like to know, also, if expiration dates on licenses really matter (I get bartenders telling me that using an expired ID is illegal, but I'm not driving with an expired ID -- I'm just using it to verify age).
But that's a hijack question, from my experience (and from bartenders whom I asked), most of the time they don't even look at the picture, unless you look obviously underage. I've had a few times when bartenders immediately ask for a second form of ID, usually in suburban sports bars that just open up. I don't have a second form so I'm always turned away.
A little tip, always have your ID out and ready to shove in their face. Don't be afraid to look at them when they're looking at you. In my pre-21 days I gave them my real ID (!) and just acted confident and all they did was look at it real quick and give it back. I never went to college bars though, I always dressed nice and ordered what I guess you'd call non-college drinks. I guess they figure if you can order a dry martini with Belvedere served up, you're not 21.
Stay away from college bars or bars that offer ridiculously cheap specials (like 25 cent draws) or things that attract the underage crowd. Tip well ($1-2 a drink at least), don't order novice drinks and you'll never get hassled. The big thing is the confidence. I was deathly afraid that the cops were lurking in the bushes or I'd be apprehended, not literally of course, but with practice you'll learn not to care and going to a bar is just like going anywhere else -- it shows.
Sorry to not answer your question directly, but I think I answered what you're looking for. When you're in a large metropolitan area, don't know anyone and you're 20 -- you learn really quick how to get by.
posted by geoff. at 7:16 AM on October 24, 2005
But that's a hijack question, from my experience (and from bartenders whom I asked), most of the time they don't even look at the picture, unless you look obviously underage. I've had a few times when bartenders immediately ask for a second form of ID, usually in suburban sports bars that just open up. I don't have a second form so I'm always turned away.
A little tip, always have your ID out and ready to shove in their face. Don't be afraid to look at them when they're looking at you. In my pre-21 days I gave them my real ID (!) and just acted confident and all they did was look at it real quick and give it back. I never went to college bars though, I always dressed nice and ordered what I guess you'd call non-college drinks. I guess they figure if you can order a dry martini with Belvedere served up, you're not 21.
Stay away from college bars or bars that offer ridiculously cheap specials (like 25 cent draws) or things that attract the underage crowd. Tip well ($1-2 a drink at least), don't order novice drinks and you'll never get hassled. The big thing is the confidence. I was deathly afraid that the cops were lurking in the bushes or I'd be apprehended, not literally of course, but with practice you'll learn not to care and going to a bar is just like going anywhere else -- it shows.
Sorry to not answer your question directly, but I think I answered what you're looking for. When you're in a large metropolitan area, don't know anyone and you're 20 -- you learn really quick how to get by.
posted by geoff. at 7:16 AM on October 24, 2005
I've bartended for several years, and I think it depends on the person, how busy it is, is it a bouncer, or the bartender at the bar. Some people get off on catching people, where as I has a fake ID when I was underage. I suppose I was a little more sympathetic to the cause. Like elquien, I would take a cursory glance; if things were blatantly out of synch, I'd just be a dick about it and tell them to put a little more effort into it and try it somewhere else. geoff. has a good point as well, carry yourself with confidence, and don't be a tool. I don't do it any more (but may in the future) but here's a general request of bartenders: Don't say... could you get me X, "WHEN YOU GET A MINUTE, when you have time, etc." Whether I'm busy or slow, I don't need any guidance as far as time management goes. Minor pet peeve ... end rant kthanxbye
posted by AllesKlar at 7:41 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 7:41 AM on October 24, 2005
On post, license expiration matters as typically one doesn't surrender an expired license. Therebye allowing one to receive and old license from a friend, etc.
posted by AllesKlar at 7:46 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 7:46 AM on October 24, 2005
I bartended for several years and if I suspected an ID of being fake, I just refused the customer service. They get pissy, but my boss is going to stand behind me and people with fake IDs don't usually complain vociferously.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by Captaintripps at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2005
First thing I'd do is ask them their birthdate (while still holding the ID myself). This can work for some of the other info on the ID also.
Find out if there are any neat features to the driver's licence in your state/province that you can use. Here in Ontario, the licence number contains the first letter of the person's last name and their birthdate (and maybe more stuff that I don't know about?) -- so you can check that this matches what's printed elsewhere on the licence.
posted by winston at 9:12 AM on October 24, 2005
Find out if there are any neat features to the driver's licence in your state/province that you can use. Here in Ontario, the licence number contains the first letter of the person's last name and their birthdate (and maybe more stuff that I don't know about?) -- so you can check that this matches what's printed elsewhere on the licence.
posted by winston at 9:12 AM on October 24, 2005
> Find out if there are any neat features to the driver's licence in your state/province that you can use.
Just be careful if you try to get too clever with other states and provinces. I once had a bouncer absolutely refuse my valid Massachussetts license in DC, because her little book told her that there was supposed to be some sort of hologram or funky lamination or god knows what. The brand-new ones may have had what she was looking for, but mine was at least four years old at that point and hadn't kept up with the trends. I tried to explain that, but she kept refusing to talk to me and pointing at her book. Some other bouncer finally told her to lay off and let me in.
Given that I was 27 at the time, and do not in any way look younger than I am, the whole thing left me a little annoyed.
posted by occhiblu at 9:30 AM on October 24, 2005
Just be careful if you try to get too clever with other states and provinces. I once had a bouncer absolutely refuse my valid Massachussetts license in DC, because her little book told her that there was supposed to be some sort of hologram or funky lamination or god knows what. The brand-new ones may have had what she was looking for, but mine was at least four years old at that point and hadn't kept up with the trends. I tried to explain that, but she kept refusing to talk to me and pointing at her book. Some other bouncer finally told her to lay off and let me in.
Given that I was 27 at the time, and do not in any way look younger than I am, the whole thing left me a little annoyed.
posted by occhiblu at 9:30 AM on October 24, 2005
Geoff: The reasoning is that when your license expires, it ceases to be a license, or any kind of official document. It's now just a piece of paper (or plastic). In legal terms, it's roughly equivalent to a piece of paper proclaiming "MY NAEM IS GEOFF AND I AM 21, PLZ LET ME IN".
posted by blindcarboncopy at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by blindcarboncopy at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2005
I'm a bartender, and if the ID is legit (meaning valid, even if it's not yours) and not totally unlike the bearer then I accept it. When the liquor board makes a sweep, they don't try to bust you with fake ID's, they just check to see if you're carding in the first place. But I always, always check the DOB and do the math, because that's the best way to cover both my ass and the ass of my employer.
posted by vito90 at 10:18 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by vito90 at 10:18 AM on October 24, 2005
I'd like to know, also, if expiration dates on licenses really matter (I get bartenders telling me that using an expired ID is illegal, but I'm not driving with an expired ID -- I'm just using it to verify age).
It's a pure legality CYA thing. It used to make me nuts with it's irrationality before I was a bartender and discovered that the Florida law on the matter explicitly states that any id used for that purpose can't be expired. Likely other states have similar language.
As a bartender I didn't give a shit about anything other than not getting fined and my source of income being closed for non-compliance. Odds are that's mostly what you're dealing with, though every business has little Mussolinis who like flexing their muscles for the sake of doing it. And if you get hassled multiple times it's probably for that reason too - again, in Florida the law stated that if I hand you a drink and you're not legal it's ME who gets fined, even if 7 bruisers up front checked your id.
Occh, that's why I always travel with my passport. Not because anyone checks my id much anymore, but because bozos in every area know what a passport is supposed to look like and it gets me through security lines quicker.
posted by phearlez at 10:20 AM on October 24, 2005
It's a pure legality CYA thing. It used to make me nuts with it's irrationality before I was a bartender and discovered that the Florida law on the matter explicitly states that any id used for that purpose can't be expired. Likely other states have similar language.
As a bartender I didn't give a shit about anything other than not getting fined and my source of income being closed for non-compliance. Odds are that's mostly what you're dealing with, though every business has little Mussolinis who like flexing their muscles for the sake of doing it. And if you get hassled multiple times it's probably for that reason too - again, in Florida the law stated that if I hand you a drink and you're not legal it's ME who gets fined, even if 7 bruisers up front checked your id.
Occh, that's why I always travel with my passport. Not because anyone checks my id much anymore, but because bozos in every area know what a passport is supposed to look like and it gets me through security lines quicker.
posted by phearlez at 10:20 AM on October 24, 2005
>Occh, that's why I always travel with my passport.
I used to use mine as ID because the picture is *much* better, but so many friends made fun of me that I stopped. Plus I was worried about losing it -- mainly because I like the picture so much!
posted by occhiblu at 10:54 AM on October 24, 2005
I used to use mine as ID because the picture is *much* better, but so many friends made fun of me that I stopped. Plus I was worried about losing it -- mainly because I like the picture so much!
posted by occhiblu at 10:54 AM on October 24, 2005
I concur with geoff. When I was underage and in college, I used to go to the bars where all the young professionals hung out. I'd use my real ID, order real cocktails, and generally act like I belonged in the place. It worked very well.
posted by rocketman at 11:01 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by rocketman at 11:01 AM on October 24, 2005
A US passport *technically* isn't a valid form of ID, and I've had problems using mine (without a driver's license) in the US. Just a heads up...
Foreign passports, on the other hand, are valid forms of ID.
posted by elquien at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2005
Foreign passports, on the other hand, are valid forms of ID.
posted by elquien at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2005
I have the opposite experience from many of the people here: I hate fake IDs. I never used one when I was underage, and when I worked security I had so many tried on me that I learned to loathe those who did.
Things I looked for: I'd flick the edges, to make sure that the laminate was legit. I'd make sure that the seal was embossed by running my finger over it. I'd make sure that the person looked like the ID, including eyes and hair. The zodiac question was one I rarely tried, because I don't know when the zodiac signs are for other people. Middle names trip people up often. You can also ask when people renewed/have to renew.
Oh, and a real tip from when I was 19 and working security at a beer garden? Don't be younger than me and have gone to high school with me and then present me with a fake that says you're older than I am. Especially if you were a bitch in high school. Your flirting will not get you past.
(One more thing: The place that I worked had a bounty of $20 for every fake. A couple places around here pay $50 per fake. Don't try using your fake there. It will be taken. And if you're dating someone who's over 21, don't use your fake on a date. If it is taken, it makes you look like an ass. Drink at home or come up with some other way to scam, but don't get you and your boyfriend thrown out of a bar that he likes to go to because you want to have a drink and have your cousin's ID.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:18 AM on October 24, 2005
Things I looked for: I'd flick the edges, to make sure that the laminate was legit. I'd make sure that the seal was embossed by running my finger over it. I'd make sure that the person looked like the ID, including eyes and hair. The zodiac question was one I rarely tried, because I don't know when the zodiac signs are for other people. Middle names trip people up often. You can also ask when people renewed/have to renew.
Oh, and a real tip from when I was 19 and working security at a beer garden? Don't be younger than me and have gone to high school with me and then present me with a fake that says you're older than I am. Especially if you were a bitch in high school. Your flirting will not get you past.
(One more thing: The place that I worked had a bounty of $20 for every fake. A couple places around here pay $50 per fake. Don't try using your fake there. It will be taken. And if you're dating someone who's over 21, don't use your fake on a date. If it is taken, it makes you look like an ass. Drink at home or come up with some other way to scam, but don't get you and your boyfriend thrown out of a bar that he likes to go to because you want to have a drink and have your cousin's ID.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:18 AM on October 24, 2005
Elquien: A passport is a valid form of ID in the US, both for getting a drink and using on your W9s.
posted by klangklangston at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2005
posted by klangklangston at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2005
Ow, that's harsh -- taking an ID away from a guy on a date.
I don't think he was mentioning using a fake ID, I have never seen a fake ID (excluding the extremely bad kind). I've talked to several bartenders and since 9/11 they said they've really haven't seen any fake ids whatsoever. Try going on a college campus and finding someone who makes fake IDs, and I don't mean $20 laminator and Epson inkjet. You can't even find fake IDs over the Internet.
posted by geoff. at 11:34 AM on October 24, 2005
I don't think he was mentioning using a fake ID, I have never seen a fake ID (excluding the extremely bad kind). I've talked to several bartenders and since 9/11 they said they've really haven't seen any fake ids whatsoever. Try going on a college campus and finding someone who makes fake IDs, and I don't mean $20 laminator and Epson inkjet. You can't even find fake IDs over the Internet.
posted by geoff. at 11:34 AM on October 24, 2005
Here in Ontario, the licence number contains the first letter of the person's last name and their birthdate
You learn something new everyday.
I was always told (by friends) that they couldn't take a valid licence away from you even if it wasn't yours. I mean you could just say you grabbed the wrong wallet or some other bad lie. They probably won't believe you or let you in, but they'd probably give it back to you instead of having the hassle of you raising a scene and calling the cops.
posted by curbstop at 11:36 AM on October 24, 2005
You learn something new everyday.
I was always told (by friends) that they couldn't take a valid licence away from you even if it wasn't yours. I mean you could just say you grabbed the wrong wallet or some other bad lie. They probably won't believe you or let you in, but they'd probably give it back to you instead of having the hassle of you raising a scene and calling the cops.
posted by curbstop at 11:36 AM on October 24, 2005
In NYC (most experience with the East Village) most places don't seem to care as long as you have something to show them and it's decent enough that they can pretend to be fooled. I guess the theory being that the authorities don't come in with fake IDs and try to get them accepted, they just have kids try and get drinks with no ID. There's a few places that will turn you down, but I only know of one place that will confiscate and it seems like they just like being dicks. And once the bartender/waitstaff recognizes you, you can often freely bring in people's 15 year old brothers no problem.
I do know one bar where it's basically policy not to ID anyone. I guess they've some sort of an arrangement because I've never heard of them getting in trouble. But it's a really shitty bar.
In NYC there is also the advantage of the old NJ IDs, which were so shitty that the real ones don't even look the same, but those are all going to expire in 2008.
As for all those codes which include your last name, eye color, sex, and so forth in the license number, do you think the people making the fakes don't know them?
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:12 PM on October 24, 2005
I do know one bar where it's basically policy not to ID anyone. I guess they've some sort of an arrangement because I've never heard of them getting in trouble. But it's a really shitty bar.
In NYC there is also the advantage of the old NJ IDs, which were so shitty that the real ones don't even look the same, but those are all going to expire in 2008.
As for all those codes which include your last name, eye color, sex, and so forth in the license number, do you think the people making the fakes don't know them?
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:12 PM on October 24, 2005
A US passport *technically* isn't a valid form of ID, and I've had problems using mine (without a driver's license) in the US. Just a heads up...
Well, it was in Florida when I bartended in 2001. Maybe it's not in other states; they are free to set their own guidelines. FL law explicitly named passports, however.
As far as the codes, of course the people who make fakes know them. But the codes predate the nifty credit-card style ids - they used to be laminated plastic and you could jigger one with a sharp pin or x-acto. But the people who did hackjobs on licenses to change the birth year rarely knew to change the id number.
posted by phearlez at 1:31 PM on October 24, 2005
Well, it was in Florida when I bartended in 2001. Maybe it's not in other states; they are free to set their own guidelines. FL law explicitly named passports, however.
As far as the codes, of course the people who make fakes know them. But the codes predate the nifty credit-card style ids - they used to be laminated plastic and you could jigger one with a sharp pin or x-acto. But the people who did hackjobs on licenses to change the birth year rarely knew to change the id number.
posted by phearlez at 1:31 PM on October 24, 2005
"WHEN YOU GET A MINUTE, when you have time, etc." Whether I'm busy or slow, I don't need any guidance as far as time management goes. Minor pet peeve ... end rant kthanxbye
posted by AllesKlar at 7:41 AM PST on October 24
Huh. I always thought that I was being polite. Fuck you very much, I guess.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:32 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 7:41 AM PST on October 24
Huh. I always thought that I was being polite. Fuck you very much, I guess.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:32 PM on October 24, 2005
OC - No problem. TheOnlyCoolTim - funny you should mention the old NJ licenses; when I was in school, there were these guys who had the whole setup for creating those buggers. From bars to liquor stores, it was never taken away. Best investment for an underage aspiring alcoholic. They have a maroon shade w/ some kind of strange gold hologram yes?
posted by AllesKlar at 2:41 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 2:41 PM on October 24, 2005
As a side question, if you're caught using a fake ID and they decide to be dicks about it & call the cops, what can the cops do?
posted by devilsbrigade at 4:54 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by devilsbrigade at 4:54 PM on October 24, 2005
I've seen anywhere from a $50 to a $750 fine; depends on the area, and this is what is posted; I've never met anyone who was caught, to say whether it's like a speeding ticket where they knock it down to x miles an hour over, reducing the fine.
posted by AllesKlar at 5:33 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by AllesKlar at 5:33 PM on October 24, 2005
You can be charged with using false idenfitication and some attempting to obtain liquor charges that would be lesser of the charges. The false identification one, since 9/11, can be the killer. They can send you to jail, charge you a fine, and I believe it stays on your permanent record. This is how they bust fake id makers, you tell us where you got this and we'll drop half the chargers. I can't imagine a good laywer not getting one off if they were say a year or less from being 21, but from what I hear it's not too pretty.
posted by geoff. at 5:40 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by geoff. at 5:40 PM on October 24, 2005
Maroon bar on top, most of the background was white/gray. The gold "hologram," as I understand it, is basically glitter and can be replicated with a certain kind of paint.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 9:29 PM on October 24, 2005
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 9:29 PM on October 24, 2005
From a ridiculously detailed news item:
Curdy was arrested on a third-degree felony charge of forgery and misdemeanor charges of unlawful use of an ID card, giving false information to a police officer, theft, criminal trespassing and being a minor in a beer hall.
The same bar sued a woman caught drinking underage there, winning a default judgement for $25,000.
(I guess this doesn't happen that often in Utah. Here in Wisconsin it's more of an everyday thing ...)
posted by dhartung at 11:39 PM on October 24, 2005
Curdy was arrested on a third-degree felony charge of forgery and misdemeanor charges of unlawful use of an ID card, giving false information to a police officer, theft, criminal trespassing and being a minor in a beer hall.
The same bar sued a woman caught drinking underage there, winning a default judgement for $25,000.
(I guess this doesn't happen that often in Utah. Here in Wisconsin it's more of an everyday thing ...)
posted by dhartung at 11:39 PM on October 24, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:09 AM on October 24, 2005 [1 favorite]