Comments on: To be or not to be?

Question: To be or not to be?

Happydaz — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:50:49 -0800

What is the ideal word in the English language that means torn between two equally wonderful/terrible things? A friend of mine suggested yesterday this word was ambivalence, but I am not satisfied with that.

Maybe I just need a better dictionary/thesaurus. But Merriam-Webster online gives this definition for ambivalence: 1 : simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action
2 a : continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite) b : uncertainty as to which approach to follow

I am unhappy with this word because so many people use ambivalence to mean definition 2b: uncertainty. In fact, its common usage seems to indicate uncertainty with a lack of care for which outcome happens. Ex: 'Do you want to go to the bar or the movies?' 'Meh. I'm abivalent.' I didn't know about 1 or 2a and I suspect, neither does the majority of the literate public. Is there a better word to use when someone's pulling a Hamlet?

By: kcm

kcm — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:53:40 -0800

perhaps you meant "Meh, I'm indifferent". I think that 'ambivalent' connotates a lack of preference where 'indifferent' imparts the lack of enthusiasm. just my blathering opinion.

By: ajbattrick

ajbattrick — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:56:23 -0800

"catch 22" ?

By: ludwig_van

ludwig_van — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:04:56 -0800

It's definitely not catch 22. Ambivalent seems like the appropriate word to me. Ambivalent does not mean indifferent.

adj 1: characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes; "she felt ambivalent about his proposal"; "an ambivalent position on rent control" 2: uncertain or unable to decide about what course to follow; "was ambivalent about having children"

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:05:32 -0800

I would likely refer to it as a borderline decision or a coin-flip situation, indicating that I have precisely two options with no logical way to determine which is superior.

I would probably say borderline decision if I felt that more information could sway me, and coin-flip if I was confident that reasonable amounts of analysis would have no effect.

By: caitlinb

caitlinb — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:07:57 -0800

Dilemma (for two negatives)

By: fatbobsmith

fatbobsmith — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:10:48 -0800

How about "vacillant?"

adj : uncertain in purpose or action

By: Spanner Nic

Spanner Nic — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:10:50 -0800

facing a dilemma?

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:13:17 -0800

While ambivalence does indicate mixed feelings, I don't believe it indicates that the negative and positive factors zero each other out. It merely indicates that there are conflicting factors.

By: docgonzo

docgonzo — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:13:33 -0800

"Option paralysis" -- Generation X, Douglas Coupland -- has always appealed to me.

By: bac

bac — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:13:42 -0800

Maybe "antinomy." It's mostly used as a term in logic but I have heard it used loosely to mean something like "torn between two equally compelling necessities."

By: Happydaz

Happydaz — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:15:10 -0800

Interesting comments so far. Ludwig, you're probably right, but I hear abivalence abused as a word so often [and until today, I didn't even know it was being abused (!)]

I like vacillant, bob. Problem with the word dilemma is you can't use it as an adjective, and of course it can't describe two positives.

Are there any good words in other languages that do a better job of satisfying this question?

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:16:28 -0800

Upon post... caitlinb nailed it for negative situations.

By: oddman

oddman — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:16:36 -0800

I'd stick with 'ambivalent'. While some people use it when they mean that they are indifferent, properly used 'ambivalent' does exactly what you want it to. Don't let other people's refusal/inability to use English precisely keep you from doing so.

By: Gyan

Gyan — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:17:13 -0800

In equipoise?

By: magullo

magullo — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:18:38 -0800

Irresolute

By: Boobus Tuber

Boobus Tuber — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:19:37 -0800

deadlock, impasse, quandary?

(According to thesaurus.com)

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:20:05 -0800

I'm not a fan of vacillant as it implies indeciveness.

(I love this question, and all the answers. I realized long after college, that I have a deep love of language.)

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:21:17 -0800

Morton's fork (for two equally bad outcomes).

By: trip and a half

trip and a half — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:21:50 -0800

The phrase "of two minds" comes to at least one of my minds.

By: fshgrl

fshgrl — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:21:55 -0800

I like "torn" as it implies a difficult decision between two compelling options.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:27:45 -0800

A negative clarity situation.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:29:29 -0800

I think the usual idiom is of two minds.

"With the risks so obvious and yet the rewards so great, he was of two minds about his course of action."

There's a number of negative idioms (from Roget's): between the devil and the deep blue sea, in a tight spot, between a rock and a hard place, between Scylla and Charybdis, between the hammer and the anvil, between two fires, Catch-22, cornered, Hobson's choice, in a dilemma, in a pickle, in a predicament, in the middle, no choice, sitting on a powder keg

I don't know that any of these fit a positive situation, although I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Perhaps quandary is one of the better neutral terms? At a crossroads (if you must choose one or the other)?

By: dame

dame — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:32:46 -0800

I would say dilemma qualifies for both negative and positive quandries.

By: Uncle Glendinning

Uncle Glendinning — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:33:39 -0800

I always thought that abivalence doesn't mean not being able to decide between two things, but having directly conflicting emotions about one thing. Being ambivalent about a person means that you feel both love and hatred for him/her; one cannot be ambivalent about what to do this evening. I would never follow the utterance "meh" with "ambivalent:" the word connotes an uncomfortable conflict of emotions. I would use the word vacillation or undecided. Of course, perhaps the meaning of the word has changed with popular usage.

By: grahamwell

grahamwell — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:38:51 -0800

If you can put up with a phrase, rather than a word, Buridan's Ass might be what you need.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:39:45 -0800

zero-sum games

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:40:31 -0800

damned if you do, damned if you don't

By: Asparagirl

Asparagirl — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:42:36 -0800

There's always "Sorry/Grateful" if you're a Sondheim fan.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:44:58 -0800

"your money or your life!"

By: devilsbrigade

devilsbrigade — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:47:11 -0800

I think torn/split is the right word here. If you want to be slightly more esoteric, you could go with a synonym... riven is a fun one for that.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:49:02 -0800

Like a kid in a candy shop.

By: sour cream

sour cream — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:53:11 -0800

My vote goes to "dilemma", although it doesn't catch the nuance 100%.

Incidentally, the Germans have the expression "Qual der Wahl", which might be loosely translated as "the torture of having to choose".
(Ah, the Germans have an expression for everything, don't they?)

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:56:43 -0800

In terms of sayings, "caught between the devil and the deep blue sea" would refer to having to choose between two bad things.

By: carterk

carterk — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:58:41 -0800

conflicted

By: loosemouth

loosemouth — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:09:22 -0800

This doesn't give you a single word, but approach-approach conflict is what I learned to call this situation way back in college. There's also avoidance-avoidance conflict.

By: Decani

Decani — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:11:55 -0800

By: Clay201

Clay201 — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:23:01 -0800

I don't know what the "best" word for it is, but the most commonly used one is the one used in your question: "torn".

By: Citizen Premier

Citizen Premier — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:25:06 -0800

clashing, contradictory... not quite, but that's what the ol' thesaurus has to say.

Do you have a sentence in which this word would go?

By: Citizen Premier

Citizen Premier — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:25:46 -0800

Simply "torn" might be nice too.

By: FieldingGoodney

FieldingGoodney — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:35:20 -0800

Possibly Hobson's Choice for two or more terrible outcomes.

By: paperpete

paperpete — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:36:43 -0800

Trapped / paralysed?

By: ludwig_van

ludwig_van — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:55:48 -0800

Not ambivalence. The state of being ambivalent is not restricted to "equally terrible/wonderful things". It just means not being strongly drawn towards any particular choice, whether wonderful, terrible or anything else.

No it doesn't. It means: (1) "characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes" or (2) a. "continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite)" or b. "uncertainty as to which approach to follow."

Aside from that, I'd vote for "(facing a) dilemma/quandary."

By: PurplePorpoise

PurplePorpoise — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:57:02 -0800

I agree the ambivalent isn't the right word here - to me it means not particularly caring about the situation.

I like Gyan's equipoise. The first definition seems like a good litmus test.

By: PurplePorpoise

PurplePorpoise — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:58:17 -0800

sorry, third and fourth definition. stupid drugs make brain slow

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:16:58 -0800

divided ?

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:31:36 -0800

What is the ideal word in the English language that means torn between two equally wonderful/terrible things?

'Torn' has the precise connotations you describe, which is exactly why you used it!

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:32:48 -0800

'Conflicted', has similar evocations.

By: crabintheocean

crabintheocean — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:43:13 -0800

I vote for conflicted.

By: attercoppe

attercoppe — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:07:20 -0800

How about divergent?

By: brandz

brandz — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:39:03 -0800

i thought hobson's choice.

By: Happydaz

Happydaz — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:55:58 -0800

Well, I marked a few answers I really liked. Although as it's a word usage question, I feel rather uncomfortable selecting "Best" answers as I'm not a linguist. Thanks for all the great comments, I love AskMe.

Although this probably isn't technically correct, I love the idea of being riven, as an adjective. Seeing as it's a verb, however, this seems somewhat appropriate: Chosing between school and a love life rived my senses. Is that even close to being a real sentence?

The german phrase Qual der Wahl is excellent. If only I knew how to pronounce it.

I think ambivalence is being hijacked as a "meh" word, despite what the dictionary says. I'll use torn when I don't have enough time to come up with the right tense of rive.

By: equipoise

equipoise — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:20:13 -0800

Of course, I agree with Gyan.

1. Equality in distribution, as of weight, relationship, or emotional forces; equilibrium.
2. A counterpoise; a counterbalance.

By: IndigoJones

IndigoJones — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:05:12 -0800

Hobson's choice - not what you're looking for

By: Decani

Decani — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:07:26 -0800

No it doesn't. It means: (1) "characterized by a mixture of opposite feelings or attitudes" or (2) a. "continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite)" or b. "uncertainty as to which approach to follow."

Pretty much what I said. But you missed the point, which was that ambivalence can apply to any situation where you are undecided. The questioner was looking for a word to describe being undecided between choices which are, quote, "equally wonderful/terrible". I was pointing out that people seemed to be missing that crucial part of the question. Your choices do not have to be wonderful or terrible to be ambivalent about them. In fact, ambivalence is more commonly used in situations where you don't care too much either way about your choices. It's what you typically say when you don't give too much of a damn about the situation. Therefore it is not a good choice for describing uncertain feelings about terrible or wonderful things.

By: Happydaz

Happydaz — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:04:04 -0800

Decani: Exactly. Which is why I love riven and its less eloquent but more practical cousin, torn. Chosing between the two words has become quite a Qual der Wahl these last two days.

By: vanoakenfold

vanoakenfold — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:59:33 -0800

Being torn between two good things is at the same time being torn between two bad things -- having to give up one of them. I frequently use dilemma and quandry for this position. "Between a (rock) and a (hard place)" type phrases bring to mind being squashed by circumstances from both sides, rather than being given a choice.

By: Decani

Decani — Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:41:34 -0800

Riven... hat's a good call, Happydaz. I never managed to finish the damned game, either.

By: booksprite

booksprite — Sun, 06 Nov 2005 03:23:57 -0800

Spoilt for choice?