CarTalk

October 19, 2005 8:42 PM

I am considering purchasing an older 5-spd Honda Civic on order to save gas on my bi-weekly long commute.

I choose this car b/c it is fairly readily available and has a good reputation for reliability. I am mainly finding 1990-1999 models with about 70K-170K miles on them for sale around here (West Coast so they are freeway miles). Are there any specific problems that I should look for in one of this age? Any websites to peruse? I'm reasonably car savvy but no mechanic so I'll be having likely candidates checked out but I'd like to keep that to a minimum.

posted by fshgrl to travel & transportation (19 comments total)

You should be able to get the AAA or some mechanic you trust to inspect the car. In South Australia, our AAA equivalent is the RAA and for (I think, it's been a while) about $200 (USD150) they will spend an hour or 2 going over the car with a fine-tooth comb and give you a written report on everything, tell you what's good & bad and what will need attention soon.

Get such an inspection on anything you are serious about buying. Tell the seller they can pay for the inspection and if the results are good and you buy the car, you'll cover the inspection cost.
posted by polyglot at 8:50 PM on October 19, 2005

My first car was a 1991 Civic... awesome little car, and I still miss it.

First, cars in general:
+70K is about average life for the clutch, so see if it is shifts tightly or if it feels like it's starting to slip.
+If it has over 90K miles ask if it's had the 90K tune up, which will run you a fair amount of cash if it hasn't been done

Early 90s Civics specifically:
+tons of little electrical problems... make sure all the lights go on/off. My speedometer would short our randomly while out driving, which meant I couldn't tell how fast I was going at night sometimes
+every little plastic knob, tab, or lever is a piece of crap. Check to see if it's all there or if lots of stuff have been broken off. It may not seem like a big deal, but my door locks kept popping off and I had to keep glueing them back together. You could easily lose one if you're not expecting it to come flying off.
+My trunk leaked all the time, but I don't know if that was just my car or a problem common to civics of that era. You might want to ask about it, though.

Also, that car had the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in.

Besides that, though, I loved the thing, and you probably will, too. For more information on these (or any) cars, you might also want to check out carsurvey.org.
posted by ducksauce at 9:40 PM on October 19, 2005

I don't have anything technical to add (sorry!) but I just traded my 1990 Honda Civic LX (stick). It had over 160k miles when I bought it, and in the year that I drove it I had to replace the water pump and pulley (over $500) and it developed an oil leak. Other than that, it was an excellent car. I took the repairs that had to be made as par for the course in a vehicle that old, and enjoyed filling up, on average, every three weeks to the tune of about $20.00. I never had a problem with being comfortable in the seat, and the only problem that I had with a plastic piece was that one of the locks popped off. I traded my car in this July for a 2004 Civic EX.

My sister in law drives a 1997 Civic EX (stick), and it's still in perfect condition, runs really well, and has never given her a problem. My brother's 1989 Accord (also a stick) is still running strong.

If taken care of, your Honda will be with you until it's been driven many hundreds of thousands of miles.

You might find something useful here, too.
posted by mewithoutyou at 10:15 PM on October 19, 2005

i have my old 1996 Toyota Corolla laying around. Five speed, 32+ miles per gallon... I've rarely had anything go wrong with it that wasn't in some way my fault.

I've driven it from Florida to Utah and back with 150k miles on it. I drove it to Philly and back with 185k on it. It has 197k on it and lays dormant. I'm driving an '89 RX-7 turbo 'vert now... 15 miles per gallon of balls-to-the-wall exhileration driving that only a rotary engine can give.

They're good little cars. Better looking and better performing (1.8l vs. 1.6l, 118 lbs/ft of tourque gives it some geddy with a stick vs the puny 100 or so from a non-VTEC Civic) that the over-rated Civics.
posted by trinarian at 10:21 PM on October 19, 2005

(not CarSaleFilter) At least go test drive an older Corolla DX, which I think was the only real competitor in the mid-90's to the Civic, and see if you don't like them more. The Protoge, Sentra, and Galant all sucked in some way or another [reliability, looks, etc], and I wouldn't consider buying American or European [or Korean]. Altima's are nice but run a little higher. Corolla's can be found cheap. I'm selling mine for $1000. Just saying there are some snazzier alternatives than the highly overpriced and overpraised Civic.
posted by trinarian at 10:27 PM on October 19, 2005

Civics get awesome mileage, but they are a very obvious choice, to tend to hold their value well. This is great for the buyer, but not so good for the seller. Almost any economy car available in the USA will have available parts and service, so don't get too hung up on the Honda. Everyone else has your same train of thought, so prices on Hondas tned to go above their true value. If cost isn't a huge concern, disregard the remainder of this post.

You may also want to consider:
*Civic CRX, Civic del Sol - they are different versions of the same car, different body, slightly smaller than the basic civic hatch, so should be lighter and more fuel efficient

*Toyota Corolla, Tercel - they are similar cars to the civic, Toyota and Honda are both very good, don't let the toyota or honda fans sway you, choose the one you like best

*VW Golf / Jetta - As long as you avoid the 6 cylinder or GTI models, they should be the same price or cheaper than a civic / corolla. I don't know which is more reliable. I do know that VW people fight with Honda/Toyota people all the time over which is better, and Honda and Toyota people fight, so my guess is that they are all equally good. a TDI Golf/Jetta (if available) might be nice if diesel is cheap where you live.

*Audi 80/90 - Audis of this era are very cheap because there was residual fear of the sudden acceleration issue present in early audi 5000s. The issue was due to a faulty transmission that was common on many cars, but Audi got a bad rap for it. The 80 or 90 should be fine.

*BMW 318i, 320i, 318ti - the 318ti is a little-known 4-cylinder hatchback that should be competitive with the cars you are looking at. Not sure about the price. Old BMWs can vary wildly in price. Don't spend a lot of time looking for one, but don't rule them out either.

*Mercedes 190e - same story as the BMW. Getting really cheap now (~$2500, IIRC), but a GREAT car.

*Mazda 323 / 626 - The 323 is extremely fuel efficient

*Subaru Justy - might be good to avoid, the transmission is literally a rubber band. It does snap, and then the engine just revvs until you can get another put in.

*Ford Festiva - These shouldn't cost you more than $1200, and probably give the best mileage of any car available in the USA. Very very very minimal on features on the inside, though. On the plus side, if you get hit by an SUV in one of these, you don't have to worry about being confined to a wheelchair for the rest of your life.

*Ford Foucs - they have been around long enough that there may be some good deals out there. My brother gets MPGs in the high 30s with his focus wagon full of guitars and amps and stuff, so the hatches should be insane, particularly the ones with the smallest engines.

Regardless of what car you get, GET CARFAX. I think I paid $30 for a month or so of unlimited usage. Whenever I called about a car, or emailed a craigslist ad, I asked for a VIN number. Everyone gave one, and it helped me filter out a few that the owners were sure had never been crashed. A clean carfax isn't a guarantee that the car is perfect, but a dirty carfax IS proof that the car has had trouble you don't want to deal with.

Never buy a car from New Jersey or Florida. Florida cars often have hurrican (flooding) damage. And I knew far too many people in New Jersey who had VIN punch sets (mechanics will take two crashed cars and assemble one good car out of the parts, then repunch the VIN numbers so it looks like one original car. Very illegal, but apparently no one cares).
posted by b1tr0t at 10:43 PM on October 19, 2005

I just sold my 2000 Honda Civic with 75k miles (coupe EX 5sp, sold it for $8k in the Bay Area). Never had any sort of mechanical problem with it. I never rode the clutch, but if I had, the clutch would've been in need of replacement at around 100k miles, I would guess. That can be expensive. Also, make sure the front brake pads have been replaced - if they haven't been replaced at 70k miles, you'll have rotor damage which is much more expensive than pad replacement.
posted by mullacc at 11:11 PM on October 19, 2005

Count me in as another satisfied '97 Civic EX owner. It's got 70k miles, been in the family the whole time and is still good solid transportation -- no leaks or rattles, decent mileage, and the biggest repair it's needed was a loose lighter jack.
posted by Lazlo at 11:28 PM on October 19, 2005

A honda just saved my life in an accident. They are built like tanks, get great mileage and run forever. They're also cheap to fix, cuz they're the most common cars in the US. You can hardly go wrong with a honda.
posted by wsg at 1:38 AM on October 20, 2005

If you are tall and drive a lot, the position of the pedals will become uncomfortable because you have to keep your foot flexed (especially the gas pedal). The shorter/more average people I know don't have this problem. And the older models do develop minor electrical problems, but those are fairly cheap and easy to fix.

A Civic hatchback also saved my life once. A 4Runner tried to cross the highway I was doing 60 on and hit my passenger side, demolishing the car. I walked away with a bad bruise and a sprained wrist. Hondas rock.
posted by cali at 1:54 AM on October 20, 2005

Following up on b1tr0t's comments, we've had both Civics ('93 si, '97 and '99 si) and VWs ('88 Golf/'92 Jetta), and the VWs never came close to the Hondas in gas mileage.

The si models are a lot more zippy and fun without sacrificing too much fuel efficiency.
posted by SashaPT at 2:26 AM on October 20, 2005

I just passed my 95 Civic DX (115k miles) on to my brother to upgrade to an Accord (new baby=bigger car, easier seats to get my pregnant self out). Plus, my husband is 6'6" and fitting him in was a bit problematic.

That car was fantastic -- I had absolutely no problems with it, ever, not even any of the little ones that ducksauce talks about. I replaced the alternator last year, but that's consistent with the life of an alternator. It got fantastic gas mileage.

My brother and his fam are now using it with glee.
posted by mdiskin at 4:16 AM on October 20, 2005

I had a 1990 Honda DX sedan for many years. Problems included a leaky head gasket, a leaky trunk, a dangling circulation wire I accidentally knocked out with my foot. The only recall I can remember was for the safety belts, I never got it because my middle name is "Danger," my friend. The trunk latch also became very dry and screwy around year 13, so figure out what kind of oil it needs and hit it up occasionally. The blower motor also became jammed/dysfunctional around the same time -- that's another weird one, the mechanical hoo-ha of your standard "1 2 3 4" heater/cooler selection bar is wicked antique-e/Rube Goldberg-e -- I replaced that, didn't fix it. There was also an intermittent problem with the main relay, a known problem with that model car -- the part costs $60. The catalytic convertor heat shield sheared off the front two bolts, so I jury-rigged a clamp with one of those adjustable metal sleeves like you see on rubber hoses for washers/dryers. The muffler on this type of car had a "grandfather clause" because they were so horrible -- you bought the first replacement muffler, and the rest of them were on Honda. Free. There also was a bizarre idling problem where the car would rev up then stop revving then rev up while I was in neutral -- if that happens to you, it's probably discussed online, but I took it to an independent mechanic, they misdiagnosed the problem, and I bought a $100 part which was part of the vacuum line that didn't need replacing. The actual broken part was $15, I can't remember what it was. The mirrors tended to whistle at about 72mph, this was fixed with tactical paper towel stuffing.

The rain that hit the trunk would be diverted to the taillights, so a quick fix is to drill a small hole at the base of each taillight so the water has somewhere to go instead of filling up the taillight far enough to short out the components inside. That's something you can look for on potential candidates.

40 frickin' miles a gallon. Solid. I was tall (now I'm 3'9") and drove a lot and had no problem with the pedals, no discomfort at all. First clutch, five billion miles on it.
posted by user92371 at 8:10 AM on October 20, 2005

I have a 90' Accord, and it's been super reliable overall. It has a slight oil leak, and I had the speedometer shorting out problem that ducksauce mentioned (I got that fixed though). The one problem I have is rust. It doesn't bother me so much, but every Accord I looked at from around that age range had rust around the back wheel wells. Now, it's spreading. So...be on the lookout for that, even if I can't vouch for Civics specifically.
posted by jetskiaccidents at 9:04 AM on October 20, 2005

I posted a question regarding a problem with my 1991 Civic DX hatchback.... the car runs great except for this minor issue. Hope this helps.
posted by nitsuj at 9:34 AM on October 20, 2005

I drive a 99 Civic DX; stick. The other day, my battery died and I had to call AAA. When he got there, I pulled the thingy that opens the hood and it (the thingy) broke off in my hand.

Seriously, that's the only problem I've had with that car. Oh, other than people stealing it.
posted by clh at 10:26 AM on October 20, 2005

thanks for all the really helpful advice- I will check all those things out, especially the pedal position as I am pretty tall.

I'm looking at various cars but I guess I settled mianly on Honda because they get around 40mpg along with a good reliability rating and are widely available in a hatchback, which I want/ need. I've owned a Sentra, two subys and a Golf VW in the past and neither subaru nor VW can touch the mileage and VWs are $$ to repair if anything goes wrong.
posted by fshgrl at 10:30 AM on October 20, 2005

My brother-in-law used to work in a car shop that specialized in japanese cars, and he found that the most consistent problem with Hondas (both Civics and Accords) was that around the seven year mark they would begin to develop an oil leak. He claims that once that's fixed, you've got a car that will run for years.

FWIW I'm currently driving a '97 Accord, and my CV joints went bad faster than they should have - but then, Atlanta roads are rough on the suspension. Other than that, I've had no (major) complaints.
posted by solotoro at 4:18 PM on October 20, 2005

Adding to the advice about avoiding cars from certain regions: avoid cars from snowy areas like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc--the undercarriage may have salt/ice damage as well as damage to the paint/sealant.

I have a 5-speed '97 Hyundai Elantra that I bought in Cincinnati. I've had all scheduled maintenance done at the dealer and never had any problems with it. I get 30mpg city and 33-37mpg highway.

I love this car.
posted by vkxmai at 1:21 PM on October 21, 2005