Show me the money!

October 14, 2005 8:49 AM

What's the potential downside of claiming you have a job offer, when you don't, in order to renegotiate your current salary and position?

And how bad would it look if they don't bite and I don't take the (non-existent) job?

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (23 answers total)

The potential downside is them calling your bluff: We can't meet their offer, as much as we'd like to have you as an employee we'll have to end negotiations. If the do this and then you don't take the other job (even though non-existant) it will look suspicious. Most likely if you're hired you'd look to many people like a weasel who got caught.
posted by substrate at 8:59 AM on October 14, 2005

Even worse possibility, assuming you are in an emloyment at-will state and don't have an employment contract, they could say sorry we can't beat the other offer, best of luck in your new position somewhere else, and you would be out of a job entirely.
posted by amro at 9:03 AM on October 14, 2005

Boss: Good luck at your new job.

You: Um.. Yeah about that other job... Well I just like it here so much, that I've decided to stay even though you aren't even matching the other guy's offer.

Boss: Really?
posted by 517 at 9:04 AM on October 14, 2005

Right, so there's a way to avoid these nightmare situations.

You: I really want to work here, but I have another offer for more cashola. Right now I don't know what to do, is there any way you can come close to matching this, I'd much rather work here.
Boss: Absolutely not.
You: Ok, well let me think about it.

That seems a little safer.
posted by allen.spaulding at 9:13 AM on October 14, 2005

It could be even more embarrassing if you get the raise and then the boss asks, "What was that other offer?" and decides to investigate. Might be better to pound the pavement and actually get another offer. It doesn't need to pay more--working conditions, company philosophy, etc. are important. That way you don't have to act, and you have plan B in place.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:13 AM on October 14, 2005

Well, as an ex-HR manager, I usually don't recommend this strategy to others.

Say that it works in the short term and you get that raise now. However, management is aware that you are ready to jump for money in the future and may consider that when deciding promotions, the assignment of "sexy" projects that are career advancing, etc. So it may get you money in the short run and possibly distance you for opportunities later on.

Your mileage may vary, of course. I hate that this kind of thing goes on at the managerial level but it can and does.

Or, say that you make that pitch based on a non-existent job offer and management says, "Well, Smithers. I don't think we can match that. So, maybe you'd better take it." Whoops! Either no job or a really reduced bargaining position in the future. Yikes.

I always recommend that employees "build a case" for negotiating current salary and position. Start with a list of all of the responsibilities that you had when you first started. Then, create a separate list of all of the NEW responsibilities and skills that you've taken on since you started. Attach a list of your major accomplishments within your current role, especially extra projects you may have volunteered for.

Research job descriptions (with competitors is ideal) that match the responsibilities that you have now. If that salary information is available, put that on as well. (Looking at who is employment ads is a start if you need resources.)

Now, take that packet and sit down with your manager to talk about it. Many times a manager will go to bat for you with HR if you give them the ammunition to use. It's a lot of work to compile those lists and you may know things about your new responsibilities that even your manager is not aware of.

Best of luck.
posted by jeanmari at 9:14 AM on October 14, 2005 [1 favorite]

Back in my day, we used to say that honesty is the best policy.

Apparently I am 700 years old.
posted by spilon at 9:20 AM on October 14, 2005

It's the same downside as with any bluff: it might get called. So you have to be really clear about what you're going to do in that situation.
posted by Decani at 10:06 AM on October 14, 2005

i'm sorry, i don't think we need to have any tears or sympathy for companies who don't value their employees. you are not "700 years old" for being honest, but business is a game, not some wonderous, ethical site where everyone treats each other magnanimously.

handle it precisely like allen spaulding said; don't george-bush-style "you take it, or i leave!" just make it sound like you really want to work there and that it is making an ostensibly easy decision a very difficult one.
posted by yonation at 10:31 AM on October 14, 2005

A more serious danger than having your bluff called: Some bosses/employers will TERMINATE YOU out of hand for looking for a new job - this likely does not apply in your field or you would know this danger. In some industries, this is perceived as disloyalty and people have been escorted out by security when it is learned that they are out interviewing.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 10:35 AM on October 14, 2005

A headhunting firm I worked for while in college once told the staff that 90% of all people who used this tactic were laid off /fired/ pushed out within 6 months of doing so. While the number is likely hyperbolic, it seems quite plausible for it to be partially true.

Even if its 50-60% inaccurate, is that a good gamble with your existing livelihood?
posted by Fuka at 10:42 AM on October 14, 2005

Don't do it.

In the best case, you will get a raise, but your boss will immediately start looking for your replacement.

And if you do actually have another offer and tell your boss you're leaving, don't accept their counter offer - they'll still replace you.
posted by cptnrandy at 10:58 AM on October 14, 2005

you clearly don't think like a poker player (it's OK, 99.9% of the population doesn't) -- just don't bluff. you'll get hurt
posted by matteo at 11:06 AM on October 14, 2005

Negotiating more money is about having balls. Managers know that 95% of employees will not risk the security of their job to jeapardize it by playing the give-me-a-raise-or-I'll-leave game (yes - it's been played before).
If, however, you do have the balls to play such a game, you have to remember that in negotiation, you can't synthesize these balls. What I mean is, going into negotiation knowing that you do have another option will give you the confidence and negotiation power you need, whereas playing the game knowing yourself that you're faking and you could lose everything will prohibit you from going the extra distance you need. And it's an all or nothing situation, so if you don't go that extra distance, you're sunk.
So the bottom line is - go get another offer first: it ain't that hard, and it'll enable you to play the game.
posted by forallmankind at 11:30 AM on October 14, 2005

One angle not covered in the comments is presenting a scenario to a potential employer rather than a straight-accross salary match. Basically, don't say "X is willing to give me Y, so I won't work for you if you don't give me Y" -- instead, say "I have a slightly better offer from X, but I don't prefer them -- is it at all possible to increase your offer to make my decision easier?"

I think this is fair -- you're not outright accepting an initial offer, but you're also not making the negotiation entirely about the money. Also, this does not put you in a situation where accepting the job at the offered rate makes you look like a liar.
posted by VulcanMike at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2005

Bah. I totally missed the boat on this one. Apologies -- I thought for whatever reason we were talking about a potential employer. Definitely go out and get another offer if you're going to renegotiate at your current job.
posted by VulcanMike at 11:48 AM on October 14, 2005

Some bosses/employers will TERMINATE YOU out of hand for looking for a new job

True. Which is why there's nothing wrong with being underhand about these things. Anyone who's worked in business for any length of time gets it. They're not philanthropists. They're not altruists. The game is to get (and keep) the people they want at the lowest possible cost. They're bottom-line-chasing moneygrubbers. And you can be sure they'll cut your benefits or sack you as soon as things don't look so rosy for them, so the least you can do is treat them with a similarly self-centred attitude.

I've done what you're considering, but I was fully prepared both for having my bluff called and for being given the push on the spot. I used an approach somewhat similar to that outlined by yonation. First I made sure I was pretty highly regarded by the company. If they don't care whether you leave or not they certainly aren't going to try to stop you. So make sure they genuinely want you to stay. Second, I was prepared to walk if necessary. I weighed up the odds so that I thought they were on my side before bidding, but I also accepted that backing down in the face of a bluff called would have been a disaster. If you do that they know they have your tender parts on a plate. So you do have to be prepared to walk, I think. Finally, I sold it as me doing them a favour because I enjoyed working for them so much I'd really rather stay with them than take up this admittedly highly tempting offer.

If in doubt, don't do it.
posted by Decani at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2005

Speaking as a manager, I think a fake job offer (or even a real one), is a very bad way to begin negotiations. It's a strongarm tactic that doesn't demonstrate value.

If I found out that one of my employees negotiated via a fake job offer, I'd immediately seek out a replacement, no matter how good they were.
posted by I Love Tacos at 12:49 PM on October 14, 2005

Don't do it.

My perspective as someone who hires and fires a lot of people: say one of my employees comes to me and says "XYZ is offering me more money. Can you match it?". At this time I evaluate whether the employee can be fired immediately or if he is too critical (rarely.) Most of the time, I will simply say, "sorry fella, I'm already paying you what I can." and wish him good luck in his new job. If he's bluffing, I will most likely fire him. (You don't want to be the guy that is made an example by management, do you?)

But say he's in that rare "critical" bracket, I will make a mental note that this person went job-hunting before asking for a raise from us first. He is immediately taken out of the "people you can trust" box inside my head. I might (in extremely rare cases) give him a bit more money, but rest assured I will immediately work on moving all the important stuff out of his hands and looking for his replacement. Then I will politely say goodbye to him.

I can no longer trust people who have been out looking for other jobs. I give him a raise today... how long before he's out again looking?

You want more money? It's better to go to your manager and tell him about how you feel your contribution to the company warrants a better deal, with clear examples of your results.
posted by madman at 1:22 PM on October 14, 2005

Either you're underpaid for your current position, or you're not.

If you are underpaid, you should try to make your case using public salary information or other arguments.

If you're not underpaid, then (a) you're likely to be refused a raise when you try this ploy, or (b) you'll get a raise, but the firm will then consider you to be both overpaid and disloyal (see comments above).

On preview: what madman said.
posted by WestCoaster at 1:32 PM on October 14, 2005

I can no longer trust people who have been out looking for other jobs.

What you mean is, "I don't trust people who are honest with me about their job-hunting."
posted by goethean at 2:08 PM on October 14, 2005

What if you say you got this fictitious offer from a headhunter? I have no experience with this business 'game', but that seems like it doesn't imply the disloyalty that actively seeking out job offers does.

Heh, I hear that Google has been attempting to swipe Microsoft employees so much that it would be very easy to pull this shit there. An employee wouldn't get past the 'Goog-' before management was pulling out the checkbook.
posted by breath at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2005

I can no longer trust people who have been out looking for other jobs.

What you mean is, "I don't trust people who are honest with me about their job-hunting."

Nah. The clue was where he said "My perspective as someone who hires and fires a lot of people".

That means he's a manager, and any manager who tries to sell you that sort of bullshit is not a person who has your best interests at heart. It's a person who has the company's best interests at heart, like a good little jobsworth manager should have. Anyone with a brain and a some nous is always open to bettering their position and getting a better job elsewhere. We all shop around for more cash and a better deal. Business is a bear pit and lesson one is: look out for number one and understand that when a manager is trying to stop you from moving on it's not because he or she respects your abilities and likes your cute ass. It's because it would inconvenience them or the company of you left.
posted by Decani at 8:49 PM on October 14, 2005