What do you tell a kid who has been caught "playing doctor"?

November 21, 2013 10:44 AM

What should we say to our daughter about appropriate play and touch after learning she was playing doctor with one of her little friends the other day?

My five-year-old daughter had a playdate the other day. Afterwards, we got a call from the other parent who let us know that her daughter said the two of were playing doctor. Our daughter confirmed the story. From what the two girls say, it sounds like they pulled up their shirts and pulled down pants and underwear and touched each other in different places. Both girls are pretty vague, so we don't know where exactly they were touching.

We aren't freaked out. We figure this can be a natural, healthy behavior. However, we also know that our daughter needs to learn about what types of play and touch are appropriate in this society. So, what do we say to her? We don't want to create shame about her or her body, but also figure we need to discourage this behavior so that she doesn't later get into trouble. I would normally ask my mom for advice, but she's travelling in another country right now and is hard to contact.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (25 answers total)

Underpants parts (i.e. the parts that are covered with underwear and and an undershirt, or "underwear and a bra like mommy wears"--this should be an easy concept for her to understand) are private and only for you to touch on yourself. It's rude/not nice to touch underpants parts on other people. If somebody touches you in those places you should tell them to STOP. If they don't stop you should tell a grown up.

You could also turn it into a game and dress a teddy bear up in clothes and then play doctor with the bear. Take his temperature, blood pressure, give him a bandaid--but leave his underpants on the whole time.
posted by phunniemee at 10:52 AM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]

She will have forgotten about it already (there is a 20-minute horizon for remembering things at this age, if that) but what you should do is observe her behaviour from now on, and immediately correct anything you think is "inappropriate", such as exposing herself and/or touching herself in front of others (for the purpose of being seen) etc.

With our sons I stress that (when it happens in front of us, typically in the bath) masturbation is okay but needs to be done in private, and never in front of others. I quickly address it, make sure the behaviour stops, and move on. It seems to work.

But the key is to, at this age, address the problem when it is happening, not after the fact.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:54 AM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

I would stress the "underpants parts" thing and leave the rest.

I'm not sure if you're using "playing doctor" as a euphemism or a literal game they were playing. My friends and I played doctor constantly when I was around that age (my dad actually is a doctor, which meant we had lots of great props for that particular game, and most of our moms had been pregnant within memory, which EXCITING). But I don't remember any genital touching in connection with that. So I'm sort of confused? I think it's silly to tell your children not to engage in pretend play where they pretend to be a doctor.

I think you need to be excruciatingly clear with your kid what is appropriate and what is not appropriate, using clear language and not euphemisms that could easily be misunderstood like "don't play doctor".

I think it's fine to say "It's never OK to touch someone else's [whatever name for genitals you use in your house]", and you might also need to clarify that some types of play are OK at home, but not OK at other people's houses. ("It's OK to rub your butt on things at home, but not OK to rub your butt on things at Susy's house.")
posted by Sara C. at 11:01 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

I actually would separate the discussions you have about bodies and sexuality from this specific "playing doctor" episode. I'd give it a little time and then have a very general appropriate behavior discussion. If the other kid is the same age, this is a totally normal and fairly neutral activity. I'd avoid talking much about this specific thing because it may never happen again, nothing "bad" happened, and you don't want to create shame about it. Of course, if this becomes an ongoing thing with this kid you may need to intervene more specifically.

In general I think 5 year olds should hear about what touch is appropriate, who should never touch them, and also yeah agreed about making some limits about keeping clothes on. Overall I do think it's important to emphasize positive messages about bodies and not turn the discussion into "touching and pleasure are scary and bad!" when that doesn't have to be the message. These conversations have to keep happening regularly, and, I would argue, should specifically not be mostly framed in reaction to specific episodes.

PS, I highly recommend the books of Robie Harris.
posted by latkes at 11:08 AM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

Echoing what others have said. We kind of had a mantra with our kids when they were younger that, "private parts are private." You can keep it simple like that, and there's no shame involved. But it's a message that sometimes needs a lot of repetition and reinforcement at that age to sink in.
posted by mosk at 11:12 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

So I'm sort of confused? I think it's silly to tell your children not to engage in pretend play where they pretend to be a doctor.

I dunno...I definitely played doctor (like, not a euphemism) with my kindergarten boyfriend when we had playdates and sometimes this involved us hiding behind the couch and taking off our clothes. This is a thing that happens with kids.

I have NO IDEA how my parents dealt with it, but I don't remember ever getting in trouble-trouble about it and I've grown into a perfectly normal, boundary-respecting, unrepressed grownup.

The underpants parts tactic was how I dealt with it when kids I babysat for started playing doctor...or "playing doctor."
posted by phunniemee at 11:14 AM on November 21, 2013 [9 favorites]

Well, if you want them not to do it, I can tell you what not to tell them:

I was caught playing doctor with one of my friends over at her house. Her mother told us, "If you're going to play like that, do it outside."

I guess she thought we would be too ashamed to do it outside, but she was wrong.
posted by Flunkie at 11:16 AM on November 21, 2013 [45 favorites]

I'm also confused whether they were actually "playing doctor" or you're using that as a euphemism for something else. I played doctor all the time as a kid and there was no touching - usually it consisted of one of us pretending to eat these berries on a bush outside my house, getting horribly sick, and then getting cured by the doctor, usually by giving the patient orange juice in a little tumbler. My mother is a doctor as are most of our family friends so I was just mimicking the grownups. Sorta.

If you're using "play doctor" as a euphemism for "touching each other," I agree that you should make what you're talking about absolutely clear and not just say "don't play doctor."
posted by sweetkid at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]

sometimes this involved us hiding behind the couch and taking off our clothes.

Yeah, no, I definitely did things with other kids that involved questionably appropriate social behavior like taking off clothes, touching ourselves or each other, etc. I think all kids do.

My confusion is about referring to this as "playing doctor", which is a euphemism I think a five year old might not understand. Hell, I'm 32 and am still very hazy in this question whether we are using that expression to mean Pretending To Be A Doctor And Patient (in the same way you "play house", "play school", "play ninjas" etc), age-typical lack of boundaries/understanding of "privacy", or what.

I think it's really hard to convey to a small child where they should be drawing complex types of boundaries if you're not saying very specifically and in language they'll understand exactly what you are talking about.

Even if, in your adult world, you would rather use winking blanket euphemisms like "playing doctor" which are deliberately unclear.
posted by Sara C. at 11:25 AM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

When I was a kid 30 years ago "playing doctor" meant taking off your clothes and touching each other (this is what the expression means) although it started out as a pretend trip to the doctor's office.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:27 AM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]

I'd just tell her that when she plays, whether it's Doctor or anything else, everyone needs to keep their clothes on.
posted by Polychrome at 11:33 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

She will have forgotten about it already (there is a 20-minute horizon for remembering things at this age, if that)

I'm 31 and I still remember getting caught "playing doctor" at around that age with a boy. We had enough shame to be doing it in his garage, under a blanket when his dad walked in on us. I don't think we ever did it again after that.

I think so long as she wasn't doing it in a public place and she knows that she doesn't have to be pressured into it, even if its an adult asking then I don't think there is really a need to talk about it, its a completely normal part of growing up that almost all kids go through.
posted by missmagenta at 11:42 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

She will have forgotten about it already (there is a 20-minute horizon for remembering things at this age, if that)...

Seriously? At five years old? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what exactly you mean by this, but if you're being literal, then there's no point talking about anything at any point – twenty minutes later everything will be forgotten.

If, perhaps, you're saying something more along the lines of a five year old's not being able to connect what they're being told in the present to something that happened over twenty minutes ago, well...that's different, but still hard to believe. Do you have a reference to back this up?

Also, I thought "playing doctor" was a pretty widely understood euphemism for this sort of sexual curiosity in early childhood. I'm surprised how many people seem unfamiliar with it. Moreover, there's nothing in OP's description to suggest s/he would employ this euphemism when talking to the child.
posted by eric1halfb at 12:07 PM on November 21, 2013 [6 favorites]

Ask the other parents what they are doing.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:17 PM on November 21, 2013

>I'm 31 and I still remember getting caught "playing doctor" at around that age with a boy.

You remember getting caught, but as a teacher and as a parent I noticed that it was pretty much impossible to address behaviour after the fact.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:25 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

She will have forgotten about it already (there is a 20-minute horizon for remembering things at this age, if that)

Children are not goldfish. My five year old remembers and brings up things from more than a year back all the time.

I agree it's not a big deal and you shouldn't make it one; but come up with a nice simple formula (e.g. 'you don't touch other people under their clothes until you're a grownup') and tell it to her in a firm but matter-of-fact way if it arises again. If the playdate mother brings it up again tell her you've done that.
posted by Sebmojo at 1:08 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]

I remember "playing doctor" when I was around that age, and me and the kids I "played doctor" with never got caught.

I have mixed feeling about telling her everybody needs to keep their clothes on. This kind of body play between young children seems to be pretty normal (in the sense that it's incredibly common across cultures and time, whatever name it goes by). Maybe instead talk about how it's okay to not want to play any game if she doesn't want to, that pressuring anyone else to play a game they don't want to isn't okay, and that if anyone tries to *make* her play this game (or any other) to the point where they physically try to make her, she should tell someone right away. I think the issue is (should be?) more one of coercion not being acceptable, not that kids looking at or touching each other's bodies not being okay.
posted by rtha at 4:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [9 favorites]

rtha, that's a great attitude, but it doesn't work so well if she goes into kindergarten and sneaks off to the bathroom to play and ends up getting naked and touching a naked classmate.

I know of at least one extremely similar situation I really can't give details about where a very young boy got suspended from school for this.

In a world where kids get expelled for bringing Advil to school, it's always a good idea to set clear expectations on appropriate public behavior.
posted by phunniemee at 4:39 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

No way on the "only 20 minutes" thing. Maybe for 2 and some 3-yr-olds. From age 2 on, my daughter could speak in paragraphs and have full conversations regarding consequences - aka, when she was told she shouldn't do something because "something else", that was the end of it, for good. She remembered why, even for conceptual things - "it might make them sad because they still want it" - and not just "it's broken and has to be thrown in the garbage".

Discuss it with her in a low-pressure manner via the recommendations above, no-touching anywhere there's usually underclothes (panties/bra), and keep having the conversation on and off. I'd highly recommend having that conversation starting earlier than five, when possible. And that if anyone does, she needs to 1) tell you and 2) you won't be mad.

And get rid of the "playing doctor" line in the future. That's not "playing".

This is a biggie to deal with - not so much in the situation with the kid, but the fact that it "normalizes" that kind of behavior for her. Numbers estimated are usually along the lines of 1 in 10 adults have molested children - and that's 1 in 10, even of people you know. It's a pretty scary number, because even when you know one that's already been caught, you're left wondering where the others are, because we all know more then ten people, and those of us that have kids probably spend time around a lot more than ten.
posted by stormyteal at 4:42 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]

phunniemee, that's a good point. We never carried this over to school - it was strictly out-of-school play, which we must have somehow figured out since we never got caught and no one ever talked to us about it!
posted by rtha at 5:54 PM on November 21, 2013

No way on the "only 20 minutes" thing.

To be clear, in my experience as a teacher and a parent, I found it pretty much impossible to hold younger children accountable after the behaviour in question had already happened. With younger kids it's about 20 minutes, with middle schoolers it's a day.

It all depends on what actually happened, and how memorable (for the children) it was (adults will find significance in some innocuous things that children do not).

Memories and perceptions are also not concrete and set in stone, so it can be quite confusing for children to be confronted with something that happened in the past.

That's why it is important to continuously observe and "correct" or manage behaviour of young children as a parent.

You both see and experience what is happening, you both know what is happening, and can come to some sort of consensus about what has just happened. There is little or no argument.

Trying to correct innocuous and non-transgressive (ie, "normal" but perhaps undesirable) behaviour that you did not actually observe that occurred in the past is confusing and does not seem like a particularly effective parenting.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:16 PM on November 21, 2013

Think of another non-sexual transgression she did and how you handled it, e.g. when she hit another kid for example, and follow the same general parenting approach you use to say hey, playing naked with other kids is not okay, do this instead. Totally normal curiosity and exploration. It's only if this becomes a recurring habit when she's been told not to that you should start to worry.

Later make sure she has access to and approval to suitable body books (Where did I come from) so she gets reassured that her curiosity is healthy and that you will answer her questions.

I would check in with the other parent and ask them how they're planning to handle the situation too. And maybe later on have a gentle conversation with your daughter about how some older kids or even adults might ask to play a game like that and she should say no and come and tell you, and you will always believe her and help her.
posted by viggorlijah at 11:28 PM on November 21, 2013

When I was a kid, we were taught the "bathing suit area." You should let mommy and daddy know if someone tries to touch you in areas covered by your bathing suit. You should not show your bathing suit area to friends, nor should you ask to see theirs
posted by WeekendJen at 11:47 AM on November 22, 2013

This is pretty normal behavior for kids that age. Along with the other appropriate advice here I simply recommend you make sure play is supervised-in other words, kids don't play in a room with the door shut.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:11 AM on November 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Kids are sexually abused by other kids all the time, even by same-aged kids. Yes, even at age 5. There is no neighborhood in America where a child has not been abused, whether it has been reported or not. What begins as "normal" sex play can remain normal, but it can also turn into something coercive. That's why we've got to talk to our children about having boundaries, about telling an adult when their boundaries have been crossed, and about the using the proper words for genitalia.

That's why @rtha's answer is spot on: "Maybe instead talk about how it's okay to not want to play any game if she doesn't want to, that pressuring anyone else to play a game they don't want to isn't okay, and that if anyone tries to *make* her play this game (or any other) to the point where they physically try to make her, she should tell someone right away."

The lesson that "coercion is not ok" with regard to other children and touching and play is really well illustrated for kids ages 4 and over in a great children's book I Said No! A Kid-To-Kid Guide to Keeping Private Parts Private by Kimberly and Zack King.

The author and his mom co-wrote this book after the boy's same-aged male friend pressured him into coercive sex play during a sleepover - and when he told the other boy's mom about it during the sleepover, she did nothing to help him, so he hid in the bathroom in order to stay safe. It is a truly empowering book for children.
posted by hush at 5:24 AM on December 3, 2013