should I risk my Honda's engine block failing?
November 21, 2013 8:13 AM Subscribe
Should I risk my Honda's engine block failing? My 2006 Honda Civic is unfortunately one of a batch of Honda's Civics made from 2006 to around 2008 with engines that have potential engine block failure.
So because Honda figured out this might happen, they extended the warranty on them to 8 years. My 8 years is going to be up in about a week or so, and my engine still appears to be ok, per Honda's service guys (who I happen to trust at my particular dealer). The service manager, who has been on my side for a variety of repairs I've had since I got my Civic, said that the replacement engines are fine, but since mine hasn't failed, they're not about to give me one. He also suggested I might want to look into getting a new car now, because if the engine block does fail in even another month or two, he's not sure Honda will do jack to cover it. He sounds like he feels genuinely bad about it, but has no other suggestions. On top of this, the car needs about $1500 worth of work (the rack n pinion has got a problem and the brakes are just worn down so it's time for that). If I knew that the engine could limp along for a while at the first sign of failure so I could bring it to my repair people, I'd have already done the repairs that need doing, but apparently the engine can fail rather badly when it does. Out of pocket cost for it sounds like it would be $3k to $5k. Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that. (They also do not appear to be stepping up to say, give me $10k off a new car). Naturally I'm going to write them a letter about it, but since it took them 8 years to decide that my car and a huge # of them in the 2006-2011 model years also had defective paint that they were going to pay for, I can't afford to hold my breath waiting for them to ante up here.
So basically I'm thinking, either
1. bite the bullet and purchase another vehicle somewhere
2. do the service that currently needs doing, and hope the engine doesn't fail or
3. (which sounds kind of wack, but I guess the-devil-you-know and all that) - preemptively replace the engine block, which would be pretty pricey, but still way cheaper than a lot of cars
Thanks mefite car peeps. : )
So because Honda figured out this might happen, they extended the warranty on them to 8 years. My 8 years is going to be up in about a week or so, and my engine still appears to be ok, per Honda's service guys (who I happen to trust at my particular dealer). The service manager, who has been on my side for a variety of repairs I've had since I got my Civic, said that the replacement engines are fine, but since mine hasn't failed, they're not about to give me one. He also suggested I might want to look into getting a new car now, because if the engine block does fail in even another month or two, he's not sure Honda will do jack to cover it. He sounds like he feels genuinely bad about it, but has no other suggestions. On top of this, the car needs about $1500 worth of work (the rack n pinion has got a problem and the brakes are just worn down so it's time for that). If I knew that the engine could limp along for a while at the first sign of failure so I could bring it to my repair people, I'd have already done the repairs that need doing, but apparently the engine can fail rather badly when it does. Out of pocket cost for it sounds like it would be $3k to $5k. Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that. (They also do not appear to be stepping up to say, give me $10k off a new car). Naturally I'm going to write them a letter about it, but since it took them 8 years to decide that my car and a huge # of them in the 2006-2011 model years also had defective paint that they were going to pay for, I can't afford to hold my breath waiting for them to ante up here.
So basically I'm thinking, either
1. bite the bullet and purchase another vehicle somewhere
2. do the service that currently needs doing, and hope the engine doesn't fail or
3. (which sounds kind of wack, but I guess the-devil-you-know and all that) - preemptively replace the engine block, which would be pretty pricey, but still way cheaper than a lot of cars
Thanks mefite car peeps. : )
I'd want to know what percentage of engines in your group have actually failed. Ask your service guy how many engines his shop has replaced under the extended warranty (I'm betting the percentage is pretty low.)
If it's running fine, just keep up with normal maintenance and keep driving it.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:49 AM on November 21, 2013
If it's running fine, just keep up with normal maintenance and keep driving it.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:49 AM on November 21, 2013
Best answer: I did a little bit of reading on this and it seems the failure is a water (coolant) gallery cracking to the outside. Not really a major structural issue but a slow gradual leak of coolant through a casting/material issue. Likely quality control issues with the band of tolerance for wall thickess of the blocks meant that some at the lower end of the tolerance don't have enough material to cope with the temperature changes.
Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that. (They also do not appear to be stepping up to say, give me $10k off a new car)
Neither of those (particularly option B) are reasonable expectations. Casting defects can be completely random and Honda committing to replace tens of millions of engines because they MIGHT break would be financial disaster for them. Besides, there is a chance that your engine is, and will remain to be, perfectly fine for the whole of its life. That they have responsibility to take $10k (really?) off a new car is a bit left field too, to be honest.
But back to your case:
First thing I would suggest is that you carry coolant in the car (say a 5 gallon jug of pre-mixed). Also that you check your coolant more regularly than you do (weekly or more often and before long trips) and just watch your temperature gauge more closely. If it is running hotter than normal (even for a brief period) make an effort to stop and allow the car to cool to check the coolant.
This is unlikely to be a catastrophic failure (ie break down) but it will be a failure that is unfixable without replacing the engine. However, it will be a gradual loss of coolant so should be easily caught to prevent major disaster and get you where you need to go. You'll likely smell coolant and/or notice the level dropping before lost volume is a major issue. At that stage you can decide what to do with the car.
My suggested options:
1: Keep the car, stop getting it serviced at the Dealer (to reduce maintenance costs) and keep using the car. Reduce the amount of money you spend on it without skimping on service as best you can and just run it and see. Save the money you save from switching maintenance supplier towards a new car/new engine for this one.
This is what I'd do. Any mileage you get before failure is value you get from the car as all cars will need servicing anyway. So this is option 2 of your list, I guess.
2: Sell the car. It is, however, a well known issue so will likely come up during the sale. It may affect the resale of the car, but that may be the best compromise for you.
There is every chance that your car is fine if it has got this far, especially if it is high mileage. It could fail at any moment, but finding a reconditioned engine with a good block may be possible. It makes zero sense to pre-emptively change the block (which is why Honda didn't do it) unless it fails as the failure is unlikely to take anything else with it.
posted by Brockles at 8:50 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that. (They also do not appear to be stepping up to say, give me $10k off a new car)
Neither of those (particularly option B) are reasonable expectations. Casting defects can be completely random and Honda committing to replace tens of millions of engines because they MIGHT break would be financial disaster for them. Besides, there is a chance that your engine is, and will remain to be, perfectly fine for the whole of its life. That they have responsibility to take $10k (really?) off a new car is a bit left field too, to be honest.
But back to your case:
First thing I would suggest is that you carry coolant in the car (say a 5 gallon jug of pre-mixed). Also that you check your coolant more regularly than you do (weekly or more often and before long trips) and just watch your temperature gauge more closely. If it is running hotter than normal (even for a brief period) make an effort to stop and allow the car to cool to check the coolant.
This is unlikely to be a catastrophic failure (ie break down) but it will be a failure that is unfixable without replacing the engine. However, it will be a gradual loss of coolant so should be easily caught to prevent major disaster and get you where you need to go. You'll likely smell coolant and/or notice the level dropping before lost volume is a major issue. At that stage you can decide what to do with the car.
My suggested options:
1: Keep the car, stop getting it serviced at the Dealer (to reduce maintenance costs) and keep using the car. Reduce the amount of money you spend on it without skimping on service as best you can and just run it and see. Save the money you save from switching maintenance supplier towards a new car/new engine for this one.
This is what I'd do. Any mileage you get before failure is value you get from the car as all cars will need servicing anyway. So this is option 2 of your list, I guess.
2: Sell the car. It is, however, a well known issue so will likely come up during the sale. It may affect the resale of the car, but that may be the best compromise for you.
There is every chance that your car is fine if it has got this far, especially if it is high mileage. It could fail at any moment, but finding a reconditioned engine with a good block may be possible. It makes zero sense to pre-emptively change the block (which is why Honda didn't do it) unless it fails as the failure is unlikely to take anything else with it.
posted by Brockles at 8:50 AM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
autos.com says the problem seems to be happening around 90,000 miles, so if you're over that and the service techs say you aren't having a problem, I'd go with #2. And put aside what you can toward buying a new one just in case it fails in two or three more years.
Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that.
If they didn't do that, then the odds of it happening to any particular car are going to be pretty low. Extending the warranty was more "See, this is fine!" PR than an actual admission that it's a legitimate issue that has to be fixed, and if it were a legitimate issue that needed to be fixed, their lawyers would have made them do it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on November 21, 2013
Personally, I think Honda should have replaced all of these engines as soon as they knew they all potentially had this problem, but they have not opted to do that.
If they didn't do that, then the odds of it happening to any particular car are going to be pretty low. Extending the warranty was more "See, this is fine!" PR than an actual admission that it's a legitimate issue that has to be fixed, and if it were a legitimate issue that needed to be fixed, their lawyers would have made them do it.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on November 21, 2013
Response by poster: thanks for the answers, people. Very helpful. : )
Thorzdad - The service manager tells me that at one point, they were replacing these engines at a rate of one a day for 'a while', now he says they're doing about one a week. (I know this is not a percentage of actual vehicles from the problem years sold, but at this point they probably have a good idea and I should be able to find out).
Etrigan - My car is at 88k miles.
Brockles - I realize that $10k off a new car isn't perhaps reasonable, I was just kind of spitballing pie-in-the-sky potential customer satisfaction solutions for someone in my situation that I would never really expect them to give me.
I feel, however, that if you are a car manufacturer like Honda with a reputation of reliability, if they KNOW this is a likelihood (hence the extended-to-8-year-warranty on the engine) they ought to do more than just go "sorry, it's over 8 years, roll the dice" - when this is not a typical problem that their cars usual have. If it was - I would not have opted to purchase a Honda in the first place.
posted by bitterkitten at 9:14 AM on November 21, 2013
Thorzdad - The service manager tells me that at one point, they were replacing these engines at a rate of one a day for 'a while', now he says they're doing about one a week. (I know this is not a percentage of actual vehicles from the problem years sold, but at this point they probably have a good idea and I should be able to find out).
Etrigan - My car is at 88k miles.
Brockles - I realize that $10k off a new car isn't perhaps reasonable, I was just kind of spitballing pie-in-the-sky potential customer satisfaction solutions for someone in my situation that I would never really expect them to give me.
I feel, however, that if you are a car manufacturer like Honda with a reputation of reliability, if they KNOW this is a likelihood (hence the extended-to-8-year-warranty on the engine) they ought to do more than just go "sorry, it's over 8 years, roll the dice" - when this is not a typical problem that their cars usual have. If it was - I would not have opted to purchase a Honda in the first place.
posted by bitterkitten at 9:14 AM on November 21, 2013
I'd say keep the Honda as-is and minimize the ongoing maintenance costs as best as you can, but pay particular attention to the cooling system as overheating will exacerbate the problem... routinely check the block for leaks where it commonly cracks, watch coolant level and top off when necessary, change coolant and hoses regularly, inspect radiator often, etc. And definitely keep a jug of antifreeze in the trunk just in case.
When the engine blows (which it will at some point, just hope it's in 10 years when you're a block away from home), weigh the options... buy a new car or replace the engine.
P.S. If a problem isn't safety-related, it's VERY unlikely the manufacturer will pre-emptively replace major systems like engines. It sucks, especially for a known and acknowledged issue like this, but that's just how it is...
posted by mrrisotto at 9:21 AM on November 21, 2013
When the engine blows (which it will at some point, just hope it's in 10 years when you're a block away from home), weigh the options... buy a new car or replace the engine.
P.S. If a problem isn't safety-related, it's VERY unlikely the manufacturer will pre-emptively replace major systems like engines. It sucks, especially for a known and acknowledged issue like this, but that's just how it is...
posted by mrrisotto at 9:21 AM on November 21, 2013
they ought to do more than just go "sorry, it's over 8 years, roll the dice"
I would wager that most people that buy new Hondas don't keep them past 8 years. Honda are in the market to sell new cars so they are looking after their primary customer base with that extra warranty. Putting an engine warranty out to 8 years is actually pretty impressive customer service (if you view it in isolation) but and suspect it only feels minimal because it's biting you right now.
posted by Brockles at 9:33 AM on November 21, 2013
I would wager that most people that buy new Hondas don't keep them past 8 years. Honda are in the market to sell new cars so they are looking after their primary customer base with that extra warranty. Putting an engine warranty out to 8 years is actually pretty impressive customer service (if you view it in isolation) but and suspect it only feels minimal because it's biting you right now.
posted by Brockles at 9:33 AM on November 21, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
Can you tell us more about the nature of the potential problem?
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:40 AM on November 21, 2013