Should I stay or should I go?
November 20, 2013 6:04 AM Subscribe
I am in a strange situation. Around 8 or so months ago I met a man on a message board. We started private contact and things quickly turned romantic. He lives in another country that I will be visiting in a few months. There are some concerns in if I should bail now or go through with the meeting. Details inside.
We were never really friends. We started chatting via IM every day for hours and have been doing so for the last 8 months. Chats were first mostly sexual but then we connected emotionally too. He told me that he has fallen in love with me and I reciprocated. We were making plans on how we will spend the time together while I am in his country and we were/are both excited. I am also completely sure that he is who he says he is (I checked) so no concerns there.
Some of the issues. He doesn’t want to be exclusive with me right now and doesn’t call what we have a relationship even though he claims that he loves me. He says that it’s because we never met and he is not sure even after we meet and everything goes great if the situation is workable due to distance. It also became clear that he saw us meeting as a few weeks of fun rather than a possible start of a real relationship (where I saw it otherwise). At the same time he also says that he doesn’t know what life will bring and is not ruling anything out. But the gist of it is, he doesn’t want commitment.
We have had numerous arguments over this lately. I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation. I spend lots of time talking to him and I could be doing other things. I AM dating other men since we are not exclusive but I haven’t really connected to anyone. He seems invested enough to have those draining long arguments with me for up to 6 hours a day.
My option is I guess to see this situation like he sees it, as most likely something fun and casual. I asked him not to tell me that he loves me anymore if he can’t commit so we stopped that.
I am at cross roads now. Do I keep talking to him in a more casual manner (i.e. few times a week) and just meet up once I am in his town. Or do I end it completely. Part of me thinks that I am being unreasonable in wanting commitment when we haven’t met but there should be at least a view towards commitment and not just “it’s possible but unlikely”.
What to do?
We were never really friends. We started chatting via IM every day for hours and have been doing so for the last 8 months. Chats were first mostly sexual but then we connected emotionally too. He told me that he has fallen in love with me and I reciprocated. We were making plans on how we will spend the time together while I am in his country and we were/are both excited. I am also completely sure that he is who he says he is (I checked) so no concerns there.
Some of the issues. He doesn’t want to be exclusive with me right now and doesn’t call what we have a relationship even though he claims that he loves me. He says that it’s because we never met and he is not sure even after we meet and everything goes great if the situation is workable due to distance. It also became clear that he saw us meeting as a few weeks of fun rather than a possible start of a real relationship (where I saw it otherwise). At the same time he also says that he doesn’t know what life will bring and is not ruling anything out. But the gist of it is, he doesn’t want commitment.
We have had numerous arguments over this lately. I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation. I spend lots of time talking to him and I could be doing other things. I AM dating other men since we are not exclusive but I haven’t really connected to anyone. He seems invested enough to have those draining long arguments with me for up to 6 hours a day.
My option is I guess to see this situation like he sees it, as most likely something fun and casual. I asked him not to tell me that he loves me anymore if he can’t commit so we stopped that.
I am at cross roads now. Do I keep talking to him in a more casual manner (i.e. few times a week) and just meet up once I am in his town. Or do I end it completely. Part of me thinks that I am being unreasonable in wanting commitment when we haven’t met but there should be at least a view towards commitment and not just “it’s possible but unlikely”.
What to do?
You've never even met this man. You don't know him all that well at all. You don't know how well you're going to get along when you meet him and you don't know if you'll have physical chemistry with him. (Even if you've exchanged pictures, pictures don't tell the whole story.) There should be no question of commitment at this point and it's not a relationship, but more of a fantasy.
Visit him if you want to, but I think it would be a good idea for you to dial back your expectations and the amount of time and brain space you're investing in this at the moment. I mean... six hour conversations?! Seriously, you could meet this man and find out you don't even really like him. Keep it light and fun and don't count on it heavily at all.
posted by orange swan at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2013 [17 favorites]
Visit him if you want to, but I think it would be a good idea for you to dial back your expectations and the amount of time and brain space you're investing in this at the moment. I mean... six hour conversations?! Seriously, you could meet this man and find out you don't even really like him. Keep it light and fun and don't count on it heavily at all.
posted by orange swan at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2013 [17 favorites]
i don't think he's being unreasonable by saying he can't commit to someone he has not met in person. there is a lot about interacting in person that cannot translate to electronic or phone interaction. physical chemistry is very hard to predict.
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it! not a match for each other. go on dates with other people who live near you until you meet someone you connect with who won't have long draining arguments with you and will instead make you feel happy and energized and excited.
seems like talking to him is just one big source of stress. i give you permission to stop doing that, and move on with your life without this source of stress. have fun on your trip but don't make it about him, make it about you and what you will get out it as if you had never met him.
posted by zdravo at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it! not a match for each other. go on dates with other people who live near you until you meet someone you connect with who won't have long draining arguments with you and will instead make you feel happy and energized and excited.
seems like talking to him is just one big source of stress. i give you permission to stop doing that, and move on with your life without this source of stress. have fun on your trip but don't make it about him, make it about you and what you will get out it as if you had never met him.
posted by zdravo at 6:17 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think he is being entirely reasonable. You two haven't met. No matter how you think you feel about him (or he feels about you), all of that can change in the instant that you meet. The problem with having entirely online "relationships" without meeting the person for a long time is that you will inevitably idealize the person. Our minds can't help but start to fill in the gaps, and often that ends up not jiving with reality once you meet the person.
I think he's trying to find a middle ground in this meeting that will prevent it from potentially being a big disappointment for both of you if the chemistry isn't there for some reason. I think he's trying to keep one foot based in reality, while still keeping the door open for your relationship to grow once you actually meet. Clearly he likes you and has feelings for you.
My suggestion is to either drop this entirely, or meet him as soon as possible. Continuing in the same way is not going to make anything clearer or better.
posted by kimdog at 6:19 AM on November 20, 2013 [14 favorites]
I think he's trying to find a middle ground in this meeting that will prevent it from potentially being a big disappointment for both of you if the chemistry isn't there for some reason. I think he's trying to keep one foot based in reality, while still keeping the door open for your relationship to grow once you actually meet. Clearly he likes you and has feelings for you.
My suggestion is to either drop this entirely, or meet him as soon as possible. Continuing in the same way is not going to make anything clearer or better.
posted by kimdog at 6:19 AM on November 20, 2013 [14 favorites]
You're arguing for 6 hours a day. What more do you need to know?
It's OK to want commitment, but it's also OK to not want commitment. Your goals are not aligned. Add the time you spend arguing to that, and it's a sign telling you not to get any more enmeshed. Look out for yourself, because it sounds a little like you're wanting more than a LDR can give you. That's OK, but don't waste any more time on something that you know isn't going to work for you. Spend those 6 hours a day trying to find someone who you can actually meet and talk face to face to.
posted by Solomon at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's OK to want commitment, but it's also OK to not want commitment. Your goals are not aligned. Add the time you spend arguing to that, and it's a sign telling you not to get any more enmeshed. Look out for yourself, because it sounds a little like you're wanting more than a LDR can give you. That's OK, but don't waste any more time on something that you know isn't going to work for you. Spend those 6 hours a day trying to find someone who you can actually meet and talk face to face to.
posted by Solomon at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
My relationship with Husbunny started on-line and I thought I was in love too. Then we met in real life and pretty much had to start building from scratch.
Relationships on line are very intense. A lot of it is because it's an iceberg. 10% of the relationship is the real thing, and 90% is fantasy. You have to imagine what his voice sounds like, you have to imagine what he looks like, you have to imagine his body language, and in all cases, it's romantic and lovely. Real life, ain't that pretty.
We spent the next year, flying back and forth to see each other, and then he moved to be with me. THEN we got married.
It was expensive, and hard and well worth it. But trust me, I had both of my feet firmly on the ground and we were both adults with firm plans for making our relationship work.
We've been married for over eleven years now.
I will say this, we're each of us monogomous and while we were courting, both on-line and IRL, we were exclusive. We thought we had love and had no time or inclination for other people.
So no, if people are claiming that they love you, and you are monogamous, then wanting exclusivity is pretty much required.
I'd bag this thing. I'm the exception, most of these things just don't work out, and unless you have the resources to fly back and forth to Transylvania or whereverthefuck this guy is, I don't see how it would work IRL.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [10 favorites]
Relationships on line are very intense. A lot of it is because it's an iceberg. 10% of the relationship is the real thing, and 90% is fantasy. You have to imagine what his voice sounds like, you have to imagine what he looks like, you have to imagine his body language, and in all cases, it's romantic and lovely. Real life, ain't that pretty.
We spent the next year, flying back and forth to see each other, and then he moved to be with me. THEN we got married.
It was expensive, and hard and well worth it. But trust me, I had both of my feet firmly on the ground and we were both adults with firm plans for making our relationship work.
We've been married for over eleven years now.
I will say this, we're each of us monogomous and while we were courting, both on-line and IRL, we were exclusive. We thought we had love and had no time or inclination for other people.
So no, if people are claiming that they love you, and you are monogamous, then wanting exclusivity is pretty much required.
I'd bag this thing. I'm the exception, most of these things just don't work out, and unless you have the resources to fly back and forth to Transylvania or whereverthefuck this guy is, I don't see how it would work IRL.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [10 favorites]
I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation.
Yes, for god's sake. You're long-distance cybering with a stranger on the internet who lives in another country. That's not the foundation of a life-long pairing.
You are not going to have a meaningful relationship with this person--he has made that clear. Just move on and find someone IRL.
Or do I end it completely.
Zut alors, just end it completely.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
Yes, for god's sake. You're long-distance cybering with a stranger on the internet who lives in another country. That's not the foundation of a life-long pairing.
You are not going to have a meaningful relationship with this person--he has made that clear. Just move on and find someone IRL.
Or do I end it completely.
Zut alors, just end it completely.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [7 favorites]
Quoting zdravo:
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
Six hour arguments are the precursor to divorce, not starting a relationship.
posted by The Deej at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [32 favorites]
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
if you're having long, draining six hour arguments with someone you've never even met and aren't having sex with, forget it
Six hour arguments are the precursor to divorce, not starting a relationship.
posted by The Deej at 6:20 AM on November 20, 2013 [32 favorites]
he doesn’t know what life will bring and is not ruling anything out. But the gist of it is, he doesn’t want commitment
...which would be statistically typical for the man in this kind of situation, I am told.
And then - the six-hour arguments: apparently not draining for him. To refine the point made The Deej, six-hour arguments might be a precursor to a visit, and sex, but not to much good after that, or in short:
This will not end well
posted by Namlit at 6:34 AM on November 20, 2013
...which would be statistically typical for the man in this kind of situation, I am told.
And then - the six-hour arguments: apparently not draining for him. To refine the point made The Deej, six-hour arguments might be a precursor to a visit, and sex, but not to much good after that, or in short:
This will not end well
posted by Namlit at 6:34 AM on November 20, 2013
You two are repeatedly arguing for up to 6 hours a day? That's crazy. My wife and I have had some tough periods, but I don't think we've ever argued for 6 hours. You are already having way too much difficulty in this relationship and it hasn't even really begun yet.
posted by Area Man at 6:37 AM on November 20, 2013
posted by Area Man at 6:37 AM on November 20, 2013
Don't go
posted by Flood at 6:38 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Flood at 6:38 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Ruthless Bunny is ruthless, but correct.
In my experience, the success of your online ...relationship though I'm wary of even calling it that, has no (ZERO) significance as a predictor of whether you two will work as a couple in a real relationship in physical space.
You may as well literally show up in unspecified foreign country and marry the eighteenth male listing on page 94 of the local phone book.
And your online ...relationship doesn't even seem to be working anyway. This is starting to sound like the romantic equivalent of a Nigerian 411 scam. I'm sorry, but I don't see this leading anywhere bright and shiny.
posted by Naberius at 6:44 AM on November 20, 2013
In my experience, the success of your online ...relationship though I'm wary of even calling it that, has no (ZERO) significance as a predictor of whether you two will work as a couple in a real relationship in physical space.
You may as well literally show up in unspecified foreign country and marry the eighteenth male listing on page 94 of the local phone book.
And your online ...relationship doesn't even seem to be working anyway. This is starting to sound like the romantic equivalent of a Nigerian 411 scam. I'm sorry, but I don't see this leading anywhere bright and shiny.
posted by Naberius at 6:44 AM on November 20, 2013
doesn’t call what we have a relationship even though he claims that he loves me.
I'd call this a big red flag. Even if he never said that he loves you, you have a relationship - a long-distance internet-only relationship, but a relationship none the less, especially if you're having day-long arguments about it. He seems awfully willing to interpret words to mean whatever works best for him in any given moment.
But the gist of it is, he doesn’t want commitment.
Part of me thinks that I am being unreasonable in wanting commitment
Well, it does seem a little . . . . futile, maybe, to want commitment from someone who has pretty much specifically said they don't want commitment.
he doesn’t know what life will bring and is not ruling anything out.
Yeah, me neither, but that doesn't mean it's cool for me to string anybody along. To be blunt, this sounds like bait - he's hoping that dangling the vague theoretical possibility of commitment in front of you will be enough to convince you to meet him for a few weeks of fun. No Strings Attached fun, as far as he's concerned.
My option is I guess to see this situation like he sees it, as most likely something fun and casual.
Can you really force yourself to see it this way, though? To me, it doesn't sound like something you're capable of, at least not right now with this guy. So I'd tend to be in the "Don't Meet Him" camp.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:53 AM on November 20, 2013
I'd call this a big red flag. Even if he never said that he loves you, you have a relationship - a long-distance internet-only relationship, but a relationship none the less, especially if you're having day-long arguments about it. He seems awfully willing to interpret words to mean whatever works best for him in any given moment.
But the gist of it is, he doesn’t want commitment.
Part of me thinks that I am being unreasonable in wanting commitment
Well, it does seem a little . . . . futile, maybe, to want commitment from someone who has pretty much specifically said they don't want commitment.
he doesn’t know what life will bring and is not ruling anything out.
Yeah, me neither, but that doesn't mean it's cool for me to string anybody along. To be blunt, this sounds like bait - he's hoping that dangling the vague theoretical possibility of commitment in front of you will be enough to convince you to meet him for a few weeks of fun. No Strings Attached fun, as far as he's concerned.
My option is I guess to see this situation like he sees it, as most likely something fun and casual.
Can you really force yourself to see it this way, though? To me, it doesn't sound like something you're capable of, at least not right now with this guy. So I'd tend to be in the "Don't Meet Him" camp.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:53 AM on November 20, 2013
Normally, I'd say go, just for the adventure. But you're too into this and anything less than "He loves me and wants to be exclusively with me" will be heartbreak. Who wants to travel to another country for that?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
He doesn't love you. Because he doesn't even know you.
I'd likely get offended if someone who didn't even know me told me they loved me. Because that means they're creating a fictional me, to replace the real me. And I generally like the real me.
And spending 6 hours a day arguing with someone who doesn't even know you? Forget it.
I'm tired just thinking about it.
Go on your vacation if you want to, but I wouldn't meet up with this guy. Go stay in some hostels and meet new people, instead. Spending your time with him will likely be one of the more exhausting experiences of your life, if you're arguing before you even meet each other.
posted by ulfberht at 7:01 AM on November 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'd likely get offended if someone who didn't even know me told me they loved me. Because that means they're creating a fictional me, to replace the real me. And I generally like the real me.
And spending 6 hours a day arguing with someone who doesn't even know you? Forget it.
I'm tired just thinking about it.
Go on your vacation if you want to, but I wouldn't meet up with this guy. Go stay in some hostels and meet new people, instead. Spending your time with him will likely be one of the more exhausting experiences of your life, if you're arguing before you even meet each other.
posted by ulfberht at 7:01 AM on November 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think the reason you are both sticking around for the six hour arguments is because you both care for each other and you both hope it will work out. The difference is that he is being real about this, perhaps based on prior experience, whereas you are intoxicated by the romance. Unfortunately chances that it doesn't end well are high, you have a lot of obstacles to overcome, not least the physical distance.
You need to dial way down on your expectations - expect to have to build the relationship from scratch when you do meet. Hope for nothing but fun for now. It will be so much less stressful on you both.
posted by Dragonness at 7:02 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
You need to dial way down on your expectations - expect to have to build the relationship from scratch when you do meet. Hope for nothing but fun for now. It will be so much less stressful on you both.
posted by Dragonness at 7:02 AM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
As someone who had several intense online acquaintances a long time ago before getting married, if I was forced to be single again I would play by the same rules he is. You can't fall in love with someone you've never met, you don't know them, they're not your boyfriend, you don't have a life together. He is telling you a thing that is true: he doesn't know how he's going to feel until you guys interact in meatspace, and you don't live in the same country and it would be unfair to build up a big commitment at this point knowing the odds are pretty slim.
You can legitimately cultivate interest by interacting with someone at a distance like this, but you have to have boundaries. You're spending 6 hours having a 5-minute discussion because it's a way to prolong your interaction. There's just only so much you can do "together" and it's awkward to change the subject, so you just churn and churn and churn.
But at the end of the day, he's not participating at the same level of fantasy/what-if/romance you are, and maybe that in itself is a kind of incompatibility. He may just be too practical for you.
In the imaginary hellfuture where I had to be single again, if I connected intensely with someone I would pretty quickly put it on ice until we could meet. It is very very very hard to live up to ethernet expectations in the real world, and the pressure alone can be enough to sabotage the whole thing.
It's probably too late now, as you're already in the starting gate for a relationship, but a reasonable agreement would have been for you guys to meet once, early in your trip, and decide from there whether to meet again. Maybe you guys should do that, just to put a pin in it so you don't drive yourself insane with the what-ifs, but you need to make your own plans for your own life for the rest of the trip.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
You can legitimately cultivate interest by interacting with someone at a distance like this, but you have to have boundaries. You're spending 6 hours having a 5-minute discussion because it's a way to prolong your interaction. There's just only so much you can do "together" and it's awkward to change the subject, so you just churn and churn and churn.
But at the end of the day, he's not participating at the same level of fantasy/what-if/romance you are, and maybe that in itself is a kind of incompatibility. He may just be too practical for you.
In the imaginary hellfuture where I had to be single again, if I connected intensely with someone I would pretty quickly put it on ice until we could meet. It is very very very hard to live up to ethernet expectations in the real world, and the pressure alone can be enough to sabotage the whole thing.
It's probably too late now, as you're already in the starting gate for a relationship, but a reasonable agreement would have been for you guys to meet once, early in your trip, and decide from there whether to meet again. Maybe you guys should do that, just to put a pin in it so you don't drive yourself insane with the what-ifs, but you need to make your own plans for your own life for the rest of the trip.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:15 AM on November 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
All other details aside, if you want commitment, don't waste your time on someone who says they don't want commitment. Life isn't a romantic comedy where the guy just needs to realize how perfect you are. Listen to him, he doesn't want commitment. Don't compromise on that if it's important to you.
posted by cabingirl at 7:35 AM on November 20, 2013
posted by cabingirl at 7:35 AM on November 20, 2013
I think you can fall into intense like and lust with someone you've never met. You can even love them. But I don't think you can truly be sure you're in love with them until you've occupied the same space.
I think what happens sometimes in online relationships is that we project the best things we want in a relationship onto someone because it's much easier to ignore that they can't live up to the expectations you have of them because they're not omnipresent.
So arrange to meet with him if you feel it's still able to be rescued. If you two hit it off, then hang with him more. Maybe you do both fall in love. Then you have something more concrete to explore than just possibility.
posted by inturnaround at 7:54 AM on November 20, 2013
I think what happens sometimes in online relationships is that we project the best things we want in a relationship onto someone because it's much easier to ignore that they can't live up to the expectations you have of them because they're not omnipresent.
So arrange to meet with him if you feel it's still able to be rescued. If you two hit it off, then hang with him more. Maybe you do both fall in love. Then you have something more concrete to explore than just possibility.
posted by inturnaround at 7:54 AM on November 20, 2013
I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation. I spend lots of time talking to him and I could be doing other things.
Yes and Yes.
There's nothing wrong with his position and nothing wrong with yours. You two just aren't on the same page. It happens.
Here's the note: It's been lovely meeting you online but I've decided to focus on potential partners in my local area. Send the note then back away. Don't initiate contact and don't respond to every one of his messages.
Don't meet him in person. Spend your vacation doing fun things, not spinning the dramaz.
posted by 26.2 at 8:04 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes and Yes.
There's nothing wrong with his position and nothing wrong with yours. You two just aren't on the same page. It happens.
Here's the note: It's been lovely meeting you online but I've decided to focus on potential partners in my local area. Send the note then back away. Don't initiate contact and don't respond to every one of his messages.
Don't meet him in person. Spend your vacation doing fun things, not spinning the dramaz.
posted by 26.2 at 8:04 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Have you done online dating much? If not, go on OKCupid and meet a couple of people, for the sake of research. Look at their pictures and their written word first and then focus your energy on noticing the huge disparity between people's online self-presentations and the reality of people. It doesn't even come down to purposeful deception, just the fact that people's physical presence - their voice, the way they move, the way the smell, their mannerisms, eye contact, height, stature - makes a huge impact on how people come across. Don't underestimate that. I would be really careful about deciding you've fallen in love with someone whose physical presence you haven't been in, and possibly question your attachment to the whole situation. In the very best case scenario, you find out that the person you decided you fell in love with actually is someone you find that you're compatible with and attracted to. But that's a total crapshoot. Like maybe 1/10 odds.
The best advice (and possibly the hardest if you are all caught up in things) is probably to take a big step back and ease yourself off the whole thing. It's pretty normal to not want commitment to someone you haven't met before.
posted by mermily at 8:07 AM on November 20, 2013
The best advice (and possibly the hardest if you are all caught up in things) is probably to take a big step back and ease yourself off the whole thing. It's pretty normal to not want commitment to someone you haven't met before.
posted by mermily at 8:07 AM on November 20, 2013
Something in the milk ain't clean here.
It's not unreasonable to wait to "commit" until you've met each other.
However, I strongly suspect that this man is married or at least in a committed relationship with someone else. If he was available to be in a relationship but just hedging on the basis of never having met in person, he'd be a lot kinder about it. You both would be bending over backwards to reassure each other that you'd do your best to keep to treat each other well while also keeping expectations realistic. If I were traveling internationally to meet a lover, I'd want some assurance that my lover was really into it as something more significant than a booty call. It's weird that he's not giving you that reassurance.
posted by stowaway at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not unreasonable to wait to "commit" until you've met each other.
However, I strongly suspect that this man is married or at least in a committed relationship with someone else. If he was available to be in a relationship but just hedging on the basis of never having met in person, he'd be a lot kinder about it. You both would be bending over backwards to reassure each other that you'd do your best to keep to treat each other well while also keeping expectations realistic. If I were traveling internationally to meet a lover, I'd want some assurance that my lover was really into it as something more significant than a booty call. It's weird that he's not giving you that reassurance.
posted by stowaway at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
a good relationship is heaven, but dating is hell. after almost six decades, i still cannot say for sure that love is not an elaborate self-deception founded on brain chemistry, but i can say for sure that "love" when you have never met your lover in real life, not once, IS such a self-deception.
he may be trying to lower the stakes for your first date, and this is a good thing for both of you. maybe you will be in bed with him at the end of the first hour, and maybe never, but it's imperative to keep as many options open as you can for as long as you can, so...
go ahead and fly there and meet him to check him out, but do not freight this meeting in advance with lifelong consequences. have an itinerary for your visit that you could invite him to join you if the first meeting goes well.
when i was a child, my parents took me to a renown child psychiatrist in an (unsuccessful) effort to figure out what was wrong with me, and this man had a poster on his office wall that i have never forgotten. "neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in those castles, and the psychiatrist collects the rent." make sure you're standing on the ground and not the floor of an airborne castle.
posted by bruce at 9:32 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
he may be trying to lower the stakes for your first date, and this is a good thing for both of you. maybe you will be in bed with him at the end of the first hour, and maybe never, but it's imperative to keep as many options open as you can for as long as you can, so...
go ahead and fly there and meet him to check him out, but do not freight this meeting in advance with lifelong consequences. have an itinerary for your visit that you could invite him to join you if the first meeting goes well.
when i was a child, my parents took me to a renown child psychiatrist in an (unsuccessful) effort to figure out what was wrong with me, and this man had a poster on his office wall that i have never forgotten. "neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in those castles, and the psychiatrist collects the rent." make sure you're standing on the ground and not the floor of an airborne castle.
posted by bruce at 9:32 AM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I will not tell you what to do or not to do. You'll do what you feel is right anyway.
But maybe think about a few things:
Why do you invest that much time and energy in something that is so uncertain?
What do you get out of this internet relationship?
What would it take to walk away from it?
What more are you prepared to give?
Do you need that level of intensity to feel loved/cared for?
Does it matter if it is arguing or harmonious chatter?
posted by travelwithcats at 9:37 AM on November 20, 2013
But maybe think about a few things:
Why do you invest that much time and energy in something that is so uncertain?
What do you get out of this internet relationship?
What would it take to walk away from it?
What more are you prepared to give?
Do you need that level of intensity to feel loved/cared for?
Does it matter if it is arguing or harmonious chatter?
posted by travelwithcats at 9:37 AM on November 20, 2013
You do not know someone you have never met in person. No matter how many texts, emails, or telephone calls, when you meet someone in person, you are meeting them for the first time. What you think you love is your projection and hope for what will be, not what is.
I speak from experience and although it may sound harsh, it will help you in the future to keep this sort of thing in perspective.
Take good care.
posted by janey47 at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2013
I speak from experience and although it may sound harsh, it will help you in the future to keep this sort of thing in perspective.
Take good care.
posted by janey47 at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2013
this is pretty simple, actually. He doesn't want a commitment. It sound s like you do. If that's the case, don't go further down the rabbit hole. I think you'll find if you end things now, you'll feel better. Don't let someone jerk you around like this.
posted by bananafish at 1:34 PM on November 20, 2013
posted by bananafish at 1:34 PM on November 20, 2013
He seems invested enough to have those draining long arguments with me for up to 6 hours a day.
Everyone needs a hobby. This is his. He may not feel as drained after arguments as he does.
It sounds like you don't enjoy his hobby.
Arguing isn't going to make him change his mind about being committed.
I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation. I spend lots of time talking to him and I could be doing other things.
What are you even getting out of this?
Unless you want to share his hobby when you are on your trip, DTMFA.
posted by yohko at 1:44 PM on November 20, 2013
Everyone needs a hobby. This is his. He may not feel as drained after arguments as he does.
It sounds like you don't enjoy his hobby.
Arguing isn't going to make him change his mind about being committed.
I feel like I am investing my time and emotions into a dead end situation. I spend lots of time talking to him and I could be doing other things.
What are you even getting out of this?
Unless you want to share his hobby when you are on your trip, DTMFA.
posted by yohko at 1:44 PM on November 20, 2013
While I understand that people can develop feelings for one another without having physically met, I refuse to acknowledge it as legit until the two are in one another's physical presence and their feelings remain the same. Chemistry is a tricky thing… and you NEVER really know who you're falling for until you MEET them.
I 'met' a man online in early '12 who seemed like everything I'd ever wanted. I thought I'd fallen in love with him. The inflection in his voice, all the right lines he spewed and texted.. the exhilarating romantic and philosophical conversations we had, and of course our virtual sex. I knew he was who he said he was because we had 'live' dates via FaceTime and Skype- and I also googled-stalked his name and his photo and linked In came up.
Even with all of that, he turned out to be a very strange person in the end. Nothing like I'd imagined and formulated. I wasn't physically attracted to him in person either. So that was just a horrid disappointment, and it was entirely my fault for getting so carried away about a guy I'd never actually met.
But my FIRST experience with the whole 'falling for someone online before having even met them' thing was a real whopper. Long story short I came to find out that when I first started talking to this one online, he was 'happily married.' (He'd explained that he was newly divorced.) When the dust settled I found out that because of our online courtship, he'd actually moved out on his poor wife. I imagine it was around the time that I asked him to start having live chat dates with me via Skype. He probably couldn't do that with his WIFE around so he got an apartment. I had absolutely no inclination that he was a weasel at the time, I had no reason not to believe that he had just gotten a divorce. His backdrop during our live chats was an empty looking bachelor pad apartment. I was shocked when I did find out the truth though, I have a pretty accurate BS meter-reader. He was incredibly calculative about the whole thing. Before I found any of this out though, things fizzled out for me and I actually lost interest in him and didn't want to meet with him, and he begged me to visit him (now I know why he was so devestated. I assume because he'd MOVED OUT ON HIS WIFE for his online paramour he couldn't fathom never meeting her after doing such a thing). What a POS! He got what he deserved though. Karma rules!!
Stick to old fashioned in-person dating. Or meet soon after finding one another online- I will never, ever drag it out virtually again. Drop this guy like a hot potato. Sounds like he's looking for a no-strings-attached horizontal tango weekend and he enjoys the attention and happy feel-good hormones that you bring him.
posted by OneHermit at 2:33 PM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I 'met' a man online in early '12 who seemed like everything I'd ever wanted. I thought I'd fallen in love with him. The inflection in his voice, all the right lines he spewed and texted.. the exhilarating romantic and philosophical conversations we had, and of course our virtual sex. I knew he was who he said he was because we had 'live' dates via FaceTime and Skype- and I also googled-stalked his name and his photo and linked In came up.
Even with all of that, he turned out to be a very strange person in the end. Nothing like I'd imagined and formulated. I wasn't physically attracted to him in person either. So that was just a horrid disappointment, and it was entirely my fault for getting so carried away about a guy I'd never actually met.
But my FIRST experience with the whole 'falling for someone online before having even met them' thing was a real whopper. Long story short I came to find out that when I first started talking to this one online, he was 'happily married.' (He'd explained that he was newly divorced.) When the dust settled I found out that because of our online courtship, he'd actually moved out on his poor wife. I imagine it was around the time that I asked him to start having live chat dates with me via Skype. He probably couldn't do that with his WIFE around so he got an apartment. I had absolutely no inclination that he was a weasel at the time, I had no reason not to believe that he had just gotten a divorce. His backdrop during our live chats was an empty looking bachelor pad apartment. I was shocked when I did find out the truth though, I have a pretty accurate BS meter-reader. He was incredibly calculative about the whole thing. Before I found any of this out though, things fizzled out for me and I actually lost interest in him and didn't want to meet with him, and he begged me to visit him (now I know why he was so devestated. I assume because he'd MOVED OUT ON HIS WIFE for his online paramour he couldn't fathom never meeting her after doing such a thing). What a POS! He got what he deserved though. Karma rules!!
Stick to old fashioned in-person dating. Or meet soon after finding one another online- I will never, ever drag it out virtually again. Drop this guy like a hot potato. Sounds like he's looking for a no-strings-attached horizontal tango weekend and he enjoys the attention and happy feel-good hormones that you bring him.
posted by OneHermit at 2:33 PM on November 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
You are falling in love with a bunch of pixels with commitment issues and an addiction to drama. You can get that much closer to home and in the flesh anytime you like.
Don't even go. The likelihood that this is going to work at is pretty much zero.
Why are you spending so much time in such an unpleasant, doomed situation? I don't know you, but am still pretty certain you deserve much better than this.
posted by ravioli at 7:03 PM on November 20, 2013
Don't even go. The likelihood that this is going to work at is pretty much zero.
Why are you spending so much time in such an unpleasant, doomed situation? I don't know you, but am still pretty certain you deserve much better than this.
posted by ravioli at 7:03 PM on November 20, 2013
I think you should probably end it, but not so much because he is afraid of committing, but because you have let yourself get in waaaaaaaay too deep with someone you've never even met in person.
His approach to this situation is by far the saner, healthier approach. No one should be committing to anything more than 'let's meet up and see where it goes' given that you've never met.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:36 PM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
His approach to this situation is by far the saner, healthier approach. No one should be committing to anything more than 'let's meet up and see where it goes' given that you've never met.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:36 PM on November 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:15 AM on November 20, 2013 [14 favorites]