Racism
October 6, 2005 9:00 AM   Subscribe

Is racism inate, inborn, or instinctual in children? Is it a learned behavior/reaction? Or possibly a combination of all the above? And what can be done to overcome it? Perhaps it's a normal stage of child development, something to be worked through as one matures, and nothing should be 'done' about it?

My question is prompted by a discussion my 7yo and I had after he read The Ugly Duckling for a school assignment. I commented that I thought the story was about 'how we can be afraid of people who seem different from us and our fear can make them seem ugly. But if we take the time to learn about others who are different from us then we learn that everyone is beautiful in their own way.' 7yo then replied: Not me. I only like brown people and blond [white] people.

I was shocked, to put it mildly. We talked further about how it's how a person behaves that matters much more than how they look; something that I thought was already obvious from the way we live our lives. But I'm not sure how well I got through to him, and possibly I'm making a big deal (in my mind) over nothing much. Your thoughts?
posted by LadyBonita to Society & Culture (25 answers total)
 
There was an article in New Scientist a little while ago that presented the results of some research indicating that racism may stem from an evolutionary trait that causes fear/distrust of "outsiders" -- i.e. people who look different from you.

This is, in no way, an acceptance of racism or the attitudes of the people who practice it; if we don't strive to rise above the failings of the flesh, we're wasting ourselves.

He's responding truthfully about how he feels, though, so don't set that aside -- he finds "brown people and blond people" attractive; some people like girls, some like only boys. Finding one kind of person more attractive than another isn't racism, but discriminating based on that feeling is.
posted by 5MeoCMP at 9:18 AM on October 6, 2005


I'm of the "You have to be carefully taught" school. Sadly, the care these days comes from a diverse set of hegemonic sources. I highly recommend looking into a simple anti-racist seminar to see how complex this situation is in our society and to find resources to raise children in a respectful and open manner.
posted by allen.spaulding at 9:19 AM on October 6, 2005


I think so long as you put the smackdown on that line of thinking and made it clear it's not okay to behave that way it's not a big deal. I speak with the crystal clarity and assurance of the non-parent so you may weigh my statements accordingly, but I think kids say shit and try things on all the time, sometimes based on a nanosecond of prior thought but often not.

My other opinion, unburdened of fact or formal training, is that humans are amazing pattern recognizers and have a biological suspicion of The Different. It serves well in the jungle when that out of place noise is something that's going to eat you but less so on the city bus. Perhaps the key with little not-yet-developed minds is to spent time focusing on the ways we're all similar and less on more nebulous moral philosophy matters that aren't as understandable to a seven-year-old?
posted by phearlez at 9:22 AM on October 6, 2005


from Nelson's Sociology Glossary-
racism An organized set of beliefs about the innate inferiority of some racial groups, combined with the power to transform these ideas into practices that can deny or exclude equality of treatment on the basis of race.

I have always agreed with the above definition of racism--especially that second part is what scares me (as a member of minority) Not only must one have certain ideas about people but one must "act" upon these ideas in some way to treat others unfairly--school, jobs, buying a house, getting watched in the stores, etc.

So while we are all teaching our kids that "everyone is beautiful in their own way" --let's also stress how people should be treated and regardedin day to day life with respect, honor, etc. regardless of race.

Just remind your kids not to discriminate against non-brown and non-blond people when he becomes president or a police officer--he may be interviewing with my daughter for a job one day :-)
posted by sandra194 at 9:29 AM on October 6, 2005


I was going to use the South Pacific song too, but I guess that's not really what you're looking for, and as beat me to it anyway.

It seems to me, based on purely anecdotal evidence based on my experience with children and *ahem* dogs, it's more of an inate fear-of-the-unfamiliar thing than a true inate racism thing. Children who have been raised in heterogenous racial groups (barring racist "education" from others) tend to be very comfortable with (and favorable towards) the groups that they were raised with (again, in my experience). With dogs, which I only bring up for the evolutionary angle, they are often "racist" towards members of ethnic groups that they did not have early exposure to. Of my two current dogs, the one who has lived with me since puppyhood in a very racially diverse area has no special reactivity to non-white races, whereas my dog that was raised until the age of two without exposure to non-whites still, five years later, barks at non-whites, even though she is exposed to them every day.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:30 AM on October 6, 2005


There was a recent "Since You Asked" advice letter on the topic. It doesn't sound like it's uncommon.

In the "unhelpfully vague" category of advice: A friend recently said that he read that we form many of our essential notions of what's attractive when very young (I think he said the cut-off for this was about 7 y.o.). So that children who are exposed to multi-racial environments are more likely to grow up finding people of different races attractive. Does your son often see non-brown minorities? It may just be that he hasn't been exposed to them, in which case I'm not sure that abstract "racism is bad" talks are going to do much good; I would think that firsthand interaction would be more helpful.

(I, however, am also childless, so feel free to tell me I'm clueless!)
posted by occhiblu at 9:31 AM on October 6, 2005


I was "racist" as a child. Not in an active sense, but I definitely considered those of other races to be inferior. As a child this was not some behavior I'd figured out or come to logically, it just seemed natural. I was #1, us white people were the most successful in society (it seemed), so we were clearly more successful. This viewpoint didn't come from my parents either.

Once I became a teenager, I began to learn the world didn't revolve around me (although I've flitted in and out of solipsism so many times now) or what I thought or our Western society, and gradually became as unracist as anyone could be. It was this switch from being an egocentric "center of the world" know-all kid, to being a "I'm one in billions" I-know-so-little adult. Sadly not everyone makes this jump.

So, in my experience it may be bound to some sort of natural emphasis of the self, or ego, but.. don't take my word for it :)
posted by wackybrit at 9:33 AM on October 6, 2005


When I was in college, I took a course in primate behavior--one of the best classes of my college career. It involved a lot of rigorous observation of four monkey colonies. IIRC, one of the colonies was mostly green monkeys with a few Sikes monkeys (which are much larger), another was mostly Sikes with a few moustache monkeys and another species.

Some of these species were fertile with others, so we had one or two green/moustache mixes. It was clear from our observations that the minority monkeys (even when the minority was the Sikes, much larger) were always bullied, were lower on the pecking order at feeding time, but minority females had equal reproductive chances.

This led me to the ugly conclusion that racism is very deep-rooted indeed--even monkeys have it. Which is not to excuse it, unless you consider yourself no better than a monkey.
posted by adamrice at 9:34 AM on October 6, 2005


I want to chime in and say that my experience has been the opposite. As a a child I had no sense of racism - its something that I remember clearly "discovering" later on in life.

The elementary school I went to was overwhelmingly white. I was one of a few brown kids and there were maybe a few black kids.

The thing is that culturally all of us were the same and although I could see that we differed in skin color - to me that seemed as unimportant as the fact that some kids had blue eyes other kids had brown, some kids were taller others shorter - that is, just part of normal human variation. Other kids in my schools felt the same. And my parents never discussed race - they just discussed people.

When later I was made aware that people in the world divided themselves based on skin color - well, I was shocked.

So, theres at least one vote against a pervasive, innate racism.
posted by vacapinta at 9:45 AM on October 6, 2005


This AskMe post is about overcoming racism, which is part of what your question is about. The poster starts from the assumption that people are not innately racist, and there is also some discussion of that point in the thread.
posted by louigi at 9:49 AM on October 6, 2005


(I'm not a parent, developmental specialist, or anything similar... I was, however, a child.)

This doesn't strike me as an inherently bad thing. I would guess that, developmentally, it's a good sign that he is able to distinguish between people that are like him (in any manner) and people that are different from him (again, in any manner). I would be more concerned if he couldn't tell the difference between boys and girls, whites and blacks, blondes and redheads, etc.

Where is gets tricky is the behavior and thought process that is associated with this recognition. He has to learn that being different isn't a bad thing at all, and that, like you have started to teach him, the behavior of the specific individual is how that specific individual should be judged.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this at all, but I wouldn't let it drop as a topic, either.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 10:05 AM on October 6, 2005


Interesting question.

If you believe that racism can be hardwired into your brain, can the same be said of the desire to treat people fairly? Can that, in fact, be a genetic trait too? I seriously ask because it's something my sibs and I have been discussing off and on for a few years now.

My three sibs and I were raised alongside our six cousins in a very white, provincial, conservative suburb. All the adults in the family, were racists of some sort. There was always a point at family gatherings where the adults would sit around and start talking about how much they hated Jews, gays or blacks.

By 8 or 9 (I am the oldest), I started getting very upset at the prospect of going to family outings. I remember crying to my mom about what was said. When I got into my teen years, I started challenging and questioning them on what they said.

Now all my sibs and cousins are grown. My sibs are all open-minded and fair people. My cousins are all racists like their parents.

About once a year we all get together and you just would not believe the garbage that comes from these people's mouths. Afterwards, my sibs and I will all sit around in wonderment asking each other, "How are we related to these people? How were we raised with these people and we're nothing like them?"

None of us really has come up with an answer. My mother's racism always seemed less virulent than her family's, so maybe we didn't have to overcome as much. Still, though, given that we were all raised in the same geographic location, went to the same schools, etc. their behavior does baffle me.
posted by Sully6 at 10:14 AM on October 6, 2005


Response by poster: vacapinta I was much like you as a child - didn't really have a concept of divisions based on skin color, my parents didn't discuss race one way or the other, and, because of where we lived, I wasn't exposed to many different races (primarily white and hispanic - I met only 2 black kids and one Asian family before graduating HS). The same is true for my children, which I guess contributed to my shock; I assumed that my children would have the same non-reaction to race as I did.

Thanks to all for your caring replies, and thanks to several of you for the reminder that the main issue is how we treat people.
posted by LadyBonita at 10:17 AM on October 6, 2005


Lady Bonita, does your kid have black kids in his class?
posted by dydecker at 10:18 AM on October 6, 2005


Response by poster: Sully6, perhaps it was your influence on your siblings that helped you all turn out differently from your cousins?
posted by LadyBonita at 10:21 AM on October 6, 2005


Oops, you answered my question in your post above. If the kid actually knew any black people he might not think of them as so Other. I guess that is the downside to living in racially homogenous areas.
posted by dydecker at 10:26 AM on October 6, 2005


As a five-year-old I had no concept of race and proved it to my (quite racist) grandparents when I told of my "new boyfriend" who had "curly brown hair and brown eyes" - when they met him they discovered he was also black (one of many black kids in my class)!
As I got older, I would hear my grandpa say things like "...black people stink..." and I remember carefully sniffing at the black girl that sat next to me, then thinking "She doesn't stink - in fact I like the way her lotion smells! Grandpa is wrong on this one." The more things like that he said, the more I would observe, and I quickly discovered that he was dead wrong on all his racist observations.
That's just me though.
I wonder if this child's statement of only "liking white or brown" people is saying something more innocent, like an aesthetic preference, and not a human preference.
Prolly not.
posted by dbmcd at 10:34 AM on October 6, 2005


Response by poster: Lady Bonita, does your kid have black kids in his class?
posted by dydecker


No, though there are a few in the school. There just isn't much of a black population in our state. When he was 2 or 3 and saw a black person for the 1st time, he asked "Why is that lady brown?" Today I guess he understands more about the variances in skin colors (now brown means Hispanic and 'blond' means whites, probably because he has blond hair) but I don't believe he is yet aware of the different races we call/name groups of people.
posted by LadyBonita at 10:34 AM on October 6, 2005


The Brown eye/Blue eye experiment was a famous study about racism in school children, using eye color as a discriminator. A google search found this and this about the experiment.
posted by jpeacock at 11:53 AM on October 6, 2005


I was definitely racist as a child, despite growing up in as multicultural an environment as you're likely to see in the US, and my racism being actively discouraged by my parents. I wasn't marching for apartheid or anything -- indeed, I now remember having a big crush on another 5-year-old, black, that I hadn't thought about in perhaps a decade (thanks AskMe!) -- but I certainly considered people different based on their skin color and would prejudge them in silly ways.

I'm wondering now whether this is just another manifestation of the following. Adults don't make a big deal if they're mistaken for the wrong sex, the way that children almost always do; for adults it's just not a strong blow against their self-definition. I have plenty of other qualities that define me other than being male. But when I was four I hadn't discovered/developed them yet; maleness was one of the few things I knew about myself, and when I was (frequently) mistaken for a girl it really hurt.

So I wonder whether such discrimination arises for children because it's one of the easy ways to categorize people. What I'm heading for here, of course, is that I (largely?) grew out of my racism, and I mean to offer hope for your 7-year-old too.

Anyway, I doubt your 7-year-old has really thought this through, and when he says "I only like X people" my own response would be "So your good friend Master Y is blond? I never knew!" teasing. If that doesn't work (because young master Y doesn't exist), just emphasize that people are individuals, and should be treated as such. (Which is a little different than the "judge by actions not color" principle, I think, which is good too of course!)
posted by Aknaton at 12:31 PM on October 6, 2005


>We talked further about how it's how a person behaves that matters much more than how they look; something that I thought was already obvious from the way we live our lives.

That may have been too soft. When my then 4-year-old daughter said one day "I don't like black people", obviously having been influenced by the neighbors, I immediately responded "That's a stupid way to think". We talked more after that, of course.

I never heard such comments again. Now she is 18 and shows no evidence of any such thoughts. Nipped in the bud.
posted by megatherium at 4:42 PM on October 6, 2005


I had an interesting experience this summer with racism and children. In my case, my husband's younger cousin, 9 years old, grew up in Switzerland, in a small village near the Italian border, and had very little contact with Americans in general, other than his parents and brother. He was visiting family in the US and while in the car one afternoon, made a comment indicating that he thought all white people in the US were Americans - and that I wasn't because I am Chinese by heritage. We had a discussion about what characteristics made up a US citizen, which seemed to placate him enough and certainly made him think.

I would be willing to wager that many parents out there aren't blatantly telling their kids "Black people are bad! Hispanic people are bad!" It's telling, though, what kids will pick up from their parents' subtle conversations or actions and interpret that more clearly than anything they could overtly say.
posted by cajo at 8:15 PM on October 6, 2005


Racism is inherent and is something that must be fought at an individual level. While not politically correct, I believe that it is obvious that people like to associate with people of their own kind and are naturally suspicious of others. It's natural, normal and cannot be legislated.

-
posted by Independent Scholarship at 8:35 PM on October 6, 2005


While not politically correct, I believe that it is obvious that people like to associate with people of their own kind

Noy sure what that means - "their own kind". I feel most comfortable with "white people" because thats who I grew up with. I feel less comfortable with many Mexican-Americans because I dont feel as much of a shared culture.

So, if by "their own kind" you mean people who share their background and cultural values, then sure. Thats related to, but not the same as the subject of Race.
posted by vacapinta at 10:31 PM on October 6, 2005


People like to associate with "their own kind", but that can be, and is, defined in many different ways. In Northern Ireland and India, for example, sectarian identity is far more important than in America. I remember seeing it mentioned, on some mostly-forgotten PBS documentary, that it's widely believed among people in Northern Ireland that Protestants and Catholics look different, and that one can tell the difference just by looking at them. Not once have I ever seen anything like that belief in the States, or even a serious reluctance to associate with "those Methodists" or "those Catholics" (albeit my personal experience is limited to New York State). That distinction is not genetically hardwired into us, although the tendency to perceive in-groups and out-groups and discriminate accordingly probably is. The question is, how do we learn who is "in" and who is "out"?

I think at first, anyone who isn't familiar is initially treated with suspicion, at least until we can read cues from our parents or other close figures as to whether someone is a friend or stranger. Later, we construct heuristics to help decide who is trustworthy and who isn't, based on characteristics that we find in common among those already deemed trustworthy or untrustworthy, respectively. If everyone who is trustworthy has some physical feature in common (long nose, curly hair, brown skin, blue eyes, etc.), a child can easily — though not necessarily — latch onto that as a criterion for determining trustworthiness. I think highlighting behavior, rather than appearance, as the most reliable indicator of trustworthiness is the best way to combat this error.

Also, as I mentioned above, we also borrow our trust-determining heuristics from the people around us — parents, peers, community members, mass media (not necessarily in that order) — so it might be a good idea to find out where your child might have gotten such notions (if he even remembers). But it is entirely possible that he came up with it on his own in his quest to make sense of the world, and he almost certainly is not committed to it.
posted by skoosh at 10:24 AM on October 7, 2005


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