Can I offer to help this person (without being condescending)?
October 30, 2013 1:33 PM Subscribe
I teach at a night school. One of my coworkers is a reserved 45 y.o. Literature teacher with whom I share my 10-minute walk back home once or twice a week, plus conversations during breaks. Although this man seems very well-read and intelligent, for some reason he does not have a cell phone or e-mail address and does not use the internet. I feel that he might gain access to a wealth of resources which could be very interesting to him by learning the basics (google, youtube) about the web. I would like to offer him some help to start surfing, but I understand that my suggestion-although well intentioned-might conceivably be perceived as condescending and even intrusive. Should I try this?
I don't live in the most highly developed part of the world, but nearly everyone at the school I work uses e-mail and internet. At teachers' meetings, the head-teacher of our school has repeatedly reminded this colleague (apparently the only one there not to have entered the IT era) that he should provide an e-mail address for receiving institutional communication, but every time he responds that he does not, nor plans to have an e-mail account. That peculiarity I can understand, but knowing something about his interests (Literature, Politics, History, Philosophy) I feel he is missing on a lot of good stuff by not using the internet. Maybe he had noone to teach him when he was younger and now he sees himself as too old to ask? I know he lives alone, and has no family (and-I suspect-few friends) in town. Would you hint at some sort of assistance on getting him started on using the web? How would you do that, keeping the risk of offending him to a minimum?
I don't live in the most highly developed part of the world, but nearly everyone at the school I work uses e-mail and internet. At teachers' meetings, the head-teacher of our school has repeatedly reminded this colleague (apparently the only one there not to have entered the IT era) that he should provide an e-mail address for receiving institutional communication, but every time he responds that he does not, nor plans to have an e-mail account. That peculiarity I can understand, but knowing something about his interests (Literature, Politics, History, Philosophy) I feel he is missing on a lot of good stuff by not using the internet. Maybe he had noone to teach him when he was younger and now he sees himself as too old to ask? I know he lives alone, and has no family (and-I suspect-few friends) in town. Would you hint at some sort of assistance on getting him started on using the web? How would you do that, keeping the risk of offending him to a minimum?
"So I was reading this great article about [thing he finds particularly interesting] on the Internet the other day. Here, let me show you.... You know, there's a lot of this kind of thing out there. Can I send you some links so you could read them at your leisure?"
If he defers, well, you tried. If your mutual boss can't get him to do it, then all you can do is present an example.
posted by Etrigan at 1:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
If he defers, well, you tried. If your mutual boss can't get him to do it, then all you can do is present an example.
posted by Etrigan at 1:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
I would keep my nose out of it. Anyone reasonably intelligent who wants to engage in the online world can do it, especially if they have resources like those typically available at a community college or night school. You can't miss the Internet. He knows it's there.
My best friend does not have e-mail or a cell phone. He uses the Internet for NetFlix on his wife's laptop.
And he reminds me frequently that his intellectual world is rich and detailed and that the library knows his face.
posted by Kakkerlak at 1:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
My best friend does not have e-mail or a cell phone. He uses the Internet for NetFlix on his wife's laptop.
And he reminds me frequently that his intellectual world is rich and detailed and that the library knows his face.
posted by Kakkerlak at 1:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [11 favorites]
I'd skip the cell phone thing for now because cell phones = cost. I'd just start with a conversation about why he's not using email since not using it intentionally is very different from just not having gotten around to it. People who are tech phobic, if this is his issue, often need what I call a "genuine option" to arrive in their life to help them get over whatever their anxiety issue is. For a lot of older people it's stuff like getting photos of grandkids or communicating with old friends on facebook. For other people it may be networking with people via Linked-in or just getting to read up on your favorite conspiracy theories. Some people like it for coupons and the ability to buy things more cheaply. It really varies and you'll probably have better luck finding out what might be appealing to him.
I'd start out basically just having open-ended conversations that might lean in a tech direction, just explaining how you use the internet in the course of a day, things that helped you, not talking about him at all. Make it clear that you're a good person to talk to about this stuff (talk about other people you've helped or whatever) and mention that there's public internet access at the library (if there is) or inexpensively at the internet cafe (if there is). And try to gauge what his interest level might be. And if it's really absent, drop it. However if you detect notes of interest feel free to explore deeper, suggest books (some people really dislike learning new things in the presence of others, especially colleagues) or other ways he could learn privately in addition to one-on-one discussions with you.
I'd be very very careful implying that there is something he is missing out on or that there is something absent from his life. However it might be useful to offer, for example, to at least sign him up for an email address if work is going to actually, at some point, make people have email addresses. In short, be open, available and friendly but be respectful and understanding of whatever his circumstances are and don't presume that you've got a bead on what would be useful to him. You sound like a good friend to be concerned about this, but be sure to keep it in perspective with what his needs and concerns are.
posted by jessamyn at 1:43 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'd start out basically just having open-ended conversations that might lean in a tech direction, just explaining how you use the internet in the course of a day, things that helped you, not talking about him at all. Make it clear that you're a good person to talk to about this stuff (talk about other people you've helped or whatever) and mention that there's public internet access at the library (if there is) or inexpensively at the internet cafe (if there is). And try to gauge what his interest level might be. And if it's really absent, drop it. However if you detect notes of interest feel free to explore deeper, suggest books (some people really dislike learning new things in the presence of others, especially colleagues) or other ways he could learn privately in addition to one-on-one discussions with you.
I'd be very very careful implying that there is something he is missing out on or that there is something absent from his life. However it might be useful to offer, for example, to at least sign him up for an email address if work is going to actually, at some point, make people have email addresses. In short, be open, available and friendly but be respectful and understanding of whatever his circumstances are and don't presume that you've got a bead on what would be useful to him. You sound like a good friend to be concerned about this, but be sure to keep it in perspective with what his needs and concerns are.
posted by jessamyn at 1:43 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Could he not be using email to avoid work creeping into his personal life, or other increases in expectations?
he should provide an e-mail address for receiving institutional communication, but every time he responds that he does not, nor plans to have an e-mail account.
Maybe he just chooses not to share these with work? Also -45 is not that old. There would have been word processing and net-connected workstations while they were in their later years of college. I think this is a deliberate thing, more than a they don't know how thing.
posted by kellyblah at 1:49 PM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
he should provide an e-mail address for receiving institutional communication, but every time he responds that he does not, nor plans to have an e-mail account.
Maybe he just chooses not to share these with work? Also -45 is not that old. There would have been word processing and net-connected workstations while they were in their later years of college. I think this is a deliberate thing, more than a they don't know how thing.
posted by kellyblah at 1:49 PM on October 30, 2013 [8 favorites]
He might be lying about not having an email address. He might simply not want his work to be able to easily contact him at home.
posted by crazy with stars at 1:52 PM on October 30, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by crazy with stars at 1:52 PM on October 30, 2013 [9 favorites]
"I'd love to share this article I found the other day online with you. What would be the best way to do that?"
And then when he asks you to print it out, just do it, or show it to him on your phone or tablet. Then you can ask him, "Out of curiousity, what has led you to avoid getting your own phone/Internet connection/etc? You are so well read, and it seems to me like you'd really enjoy the wealth of resources the Internet has to offer."
Then respect his response, because it's his decision, not yours, to avoid the internet if he wants to.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:04 PM on October 30, 2013 [12 favorites]
And then when he asks you to print it out, just do it, or show it to him on your phone or tablet. Then you can ask him, "Out of curiousity, what has led you to avoid getting your own phone/Internet connection/etc? You are so well read, and it seems to me like you'd really enjoy the wealth of resources the Internet has to offer."
Then respect his response, because it's his decision, not yours, to avoid the internet if he wants to.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 2:04 PM on October 30, 2013 [12 favorites]
Have you shown him MetaFilter?
posted by klangklangston at 2:08 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 2:08 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Although this man seems very well-read and intelligent, for some reason he does not have a cell phone or e-mail address
More than one person would say that "some reason" is that he is very well-read and intelligent. The great majority of people who have ever lived created and consumed "Literature, Politics, History, Philosophy" without the benefit of YouTube.
He has made it clear that he knows what an email address is and has decided not to have one. I guarantee that he also knows what a cellular telephone and the Internet are. While I have no doubt of your good intentions, I would assume that his decision not to use these things, which he can change at any time, is an informed one and leave it alone.
posted by Tanizaki at 2:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [13 favorites]
More than one person would say that "some reason" is that he is very well-read and intelligent. The great majority of people who have ever lived created and consumed "Literature, Politics, History, Philosophy" without the benefit of YouTube.
He has made it clear that he knows what an email address is and has decided not to have one. I guarantee that he also knows what a cellular telephone and the Internet are. While I have no doubt of your good intentions, I would assume that his decision not to use these things, which he can change at any time, is an informed one and leave it alone.
posted by Tanizaki at 2:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [13 favorites]
Someone who is 45 and doesn't have a cell phone or an email address is making a conscious choice. Stay out of it.
The most I'd do is casually ask, "So why don't you have a cell phone/email/etc?" on one of your walks home. He'll probably tell you exactly why. If he doesn't seem completely irritated by the request, you could mention one or two things that would be demonstrably better for him if he had X or Y 21st century convenience. These things should be SPECIFIC things, and they should directly relate to a specific technology you're actually talking about. And they should be things that are obviously good, not "but then you could get work emails".
To be honest most of the email I get is either spam or stuff from work that I'd love to opt out of if I was allowed to. If I didn't have email, and someone was trying to convince me to sign up for it, I'm not really sure what they could say to entice me. Because frankly email sucks.
Same for cell phones. I have a cell phone because when I tried not to have a phone at all it was basically impossible. (And I see no point in having a land line.) I have a smartphone because I'm required to for work.
The parts of 21st century tech that I actually like are web browsing, Netflix, and other digital media. Thirty seconds ago I discovered a weird song by this experimental 60s band I'd never heard of, via a Songza playlist. THAT is what I like about the internet. That has nothing to do with having an email address or a cell phone.
posted by Sara C. at 2:15 PM on October 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
The most I'd do is casually ask, "So why don't you have a cell phone/email/etc?" on one of your walks home. He'll probably tell you exactly why. If he doesn't seem completely irritated by the request, you could mention one or two things that would be demonstrably better for him if he had X or Y 21st century convenience. These things should be SPECIFIC things, and they should directly relate to a specific technology you're actually talking about. And they should be things that are obviously good, not "but then you could get work emails".
To be honest most of the email I get is either spam or stuff from work that I'd love to opt out of if I was allowed to. If I didn't have email, and someone was trying to convince me to sign up for it, I'm not really sure what they could say to entice me. Because frankly email sucks.
Same for cell phones. I have a cell phone because when I tried not to have a phone at all it was basically impossible. (And I see no point in having a land line.) I have a smartphone because I'm required to for work.
The parts of 21st century tech that I actually like are web browsing, Netflix, and other digital media. Thirty seconds ago I discovered a weird song by this experimental 60s band I'd never heard of, via a Songza playlist. THAT is what I like about the internet. That has nothing to do with having an email address or a cell phone.
posted by Sara C. at 2:15 PM on October 30, 2013 [6 favorites]
As someone who deals with information literacy, broadly speaking, in my work life I totally undertand the urge to broaden people's horizons when it comes to the internet. But there are some people who are simply just not interested.
It doesn't sound like this person is utterly ignorant. What's the deal here? If your relationship with this person is such that it would be appropriate, I don't think there's harm in politely asking or exploring what the "no internet thing" is (really) about; however, I would be wary about enthusiastically pushing anything on him and suggesting there is a major defeciency in his life. That simply may not (indeed, I think likely is not) the case.
I'd suggest checking out what resources or classes your local public libraries have for adults who are new to the Internet. Some of them may be inappropriate, like learning to point and click with a mouse (literally), but others will deal with email and searching. The folks who run these tutorials will be experts on both the subject matter and on introducing older learners to this aspect of technology.
posted by onshi at 2:17 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
It doesn't sound like this person is utterly ignorant. What's the deal here? If your relationship with this person is such that it would be appropriate, I don't think there's harm in politely asking or exploring what the "no internet thing" is (really) about; however, I would be wary about enthusiastically pushing anything on him and suggesting there is a major defeciency in his life. That simply may not (indeed, I think likely is not) the case.
I'd suggest checking out what resources or classes your local public libraries have for adults who are new to the Internet. Some of them may be inappropriate, like learning to point and click with a mouse (literally), but others will deal with email and searching. The folks who run these tutorials will be experts on both the subject matter and on introducing older learners to this aspect of technology.
posted by onshi at 2:17 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
As someone who is tasked with asking for email addresses from customers at work, and from having numerous conversations with friendly customers, there is a small subset of folk out there who just do not want anything to do with email or the internet. Various reasons for that, sometimes ideological.
No one here knows what this man's reason is. Many reasons might be personally embarrassing for him, or he might just be one of those personalities who made a Decision and wishes to stick to it. I'd just offer to share an article with him once in awhile and see what he says.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:18 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
No one here knows what this man's reason is. Many reasons might be personally embarrassing for him, or he might just be one of those personalities who made a Decision and wishes to stick to it. I'd just offer to share an article with him once in awhile and see what he says.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:18 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
He's 45, not 85. If he doesn't have a cell phone or use the internet, it's not because he's unaware of what they can be used for—he is undoubtedly exposed to others' use of both on a nearly continuous basis. It's a deliberate choice.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2013 [7 favorites]
Oh for god's sake, a 45-year-old literature professor is fully aware of the existence of cell phones and the internet; he's just not interested in partaking. Frankly, I totally understand the appeal, and if I could pull off being as untethered as he is, I would do it, too. (And as for your comment that he "seems intelligent" -- in and of itself that's pretty condescending. In fact, by eschewing the endless electronic distractions of cell phones and the internet, it's possible to make the argument that when it comes to certain measures of intelligence -- such as memory, concentration span, etc. -- he's probably better off than most of us.)
If you don't want to offend him, then you need to mind your own business and respect his choices. The fact that they are not not choices you would make or that you even fully understand is irrelevant.
posted by scody at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2013 [16 favorites]
If you don't want to offend him, then you need to mind your own business and respect his choices. The fact that they are not not choices you would make or that you even fully understand is irrelevant.
posted by scody at 2:37 PM on October 30, 2013 [16 favorites]
While walking home: "I was reading an interesting article yesterday, that I'd love to share with you. Do you want me to email it to you?" "I don't have an email address, where did you see the article?" "It was on [some site], I will make you a hard copy. If you ever decide you want an email address, I know a good provider."
Then print out the hard copy for him, and move on.
posted by davejay at 2:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Then print out the hard copy for him, and move on.
posted by davejay at 2:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dude, this is one in a long series of you being socially awkward with your coworkers.
Be professional and stop expecting rides/trying to date/trying to enlighten the people you work with.
Just be professional and respect other people's personal boundaries. You can be friends with your coworkers - of course! - but based on your MeFi questions, it really seems that you have a hard time respecting people's personal boundaries at work. I understand that you have good intentions, but this guy is making a conscious choice not to use technology the same way you do. It's not even a particularly unusual choice. He is also a grown-up, and his email or whatever issues are none of your damn business. Just stay out of it.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 3:30 PM on October 30, 2013 [24 favorites]
Be professional and stop expecting rides/trying to date/trying to enlighten the people you work with.
Just be professional and respect other people's personal boundaries. You can be friends with your coworkers - of course! - but based on your MeFi questions, it really seems that you have a hard time respecting people's personal boundaries at work. I understand that you have good intentions, but this guy is making a conscious choice not to use technology the same way you do. It's not even a particularly unusual choice. He is also a grown-up, and his email or whatever issues are none of your damn business. Just stay out of it.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 3:30 PM on October 30, 2013 [24 favorites]
My 90 year old grandma has an iPhone and sends me pictures and texts regularly and my 63 year old mom emails me all the time, shops online, and joined Netflix so she could ditch cable.
This man is making a conscious effort to not engage in a world that does not interest him, no matter what wonders you may think it holds for him. He probably already knows those wonders are there and doesn't care. Let him be.
Besides, it might be cool to develop a friendship as it was done in the olden days.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:31 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
This man is making a conscious effort to not engage in a world that does not interest him, no matter what wonders you may think it holds for him. He probably already knows those wonders are there and doesn't care. Let him be.
Besides, it might be cool to develop a friendship as it was done in the olden days.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:31 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've been on the receiving end of a few well-meaning campaigns to get me to do something I had consciously decided against, and I find it annoying and insulting. If I give someone an unqualified "No," in the form of telling them I'm not interested in something and they continue to pursue the topic, I distance myself from that person.
If you were in the US, I'd tell you that a 45 year old is a grownup who is plenty familiar with the internet, but if that's genuinely different where you are, if technology hasn't been as pervasive for as long, and you honestly believe that there's a good chance that he is just covering up for some kind of technophobia, then maybe do just put it out there that you'd be willing to help. Maybe just mention to the guy that if he ever does want to start using the internet for whatever reason, you'll be happy to help him out. No big sales pitch, just an open-ended offer.
I do not think there's any good way to approach the issue without that subtext, though. If you do offer to help him, he will know that you think he's ignorant. So keep that in mind.
posted by ernielundquist at 3:39 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you were in the US, I'd tell you that a 45 year old is a grownup who is plenty familiar with the internet, but if that's genuinely different where you are, if technology hasn't been as pervasive for as long, and you honestly believe that there's a good chance that he is just covering up for some kind of technophobia, then maybe do just put it out there that you'd be willing to help. Maybe just mention to the guy that if he ever does want to start using the internet for whatever reason, you'll be happy to help him out. No big sales pitch, just an open-ended offer.
I do not think there's any good way to approach the issue without that subtext, though. If you do offer to help him, he will know that you think he's ignorant. So keep that in mind.
posted by ernielundquist at 3:39 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't say anything. Email has been a standard means of communication for at least 15 years.
Surely a literature professor also recognizes that Internet use will undoubtedly interfere with his productivity and his time spent reading actual books.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:49 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
Surely a literature professor also recognizes that Internet use will undoubtedly interfere with his productivity and his time spent reading actual books.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:49 PM on October 30, 2013 [4 favorites]
I don't understand all the dancing around the issue with the pre-written scripts.
Just say... "Hey, if you ever needed a hand to set up internet or an email address just let me know. I'd be happy to help."
Leave it at that. If he's keen he'll let you know, if not, then no harm done.
posted by Youremyworld at 3:59 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just say... "Hey, if you ever needed a hand to set up internet or an email address just let me know. I'd be happy to help."
Leave it at that. If he's keen he'll let you know, if not, then no harm done.
posted by Youremyworld at 3:59 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
A simple and casual offer of help is okay as long as you can respect him declining and not try to convince him to do otherwise. Respecting others' boundaries is a really important skill to develop, especially in work situations where the stakes are high.
posted by wildflower at 4:12 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by wildflower at 4:12 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just leave him be. Maybe you can bring it up as a conversation topic, and discuss his intentions about it, but you're not "helping" him by suggesting the internet.
You could talk about why it's good, why it's important for you life and how the knowledge that he could access there is probably very much different that the knowledge he usually has access to (i.e. more laymen, user generated content, the point of view wikipedia offers, etc.). But I'd suggest to keep it a philosophical (or otherwise) discussion, not an intervention.
posted by ahtlast93 at 4:34 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
You could talk about why it's good, why it's important for you life and how the knowledge that he could access there is probably very much different that the knowledge he usually has access to (i.e. more laymen, user generated content, the point of view wikipedia offers, etc.). But I'd suggest to keep it a philosophical (or otherwise) discussion, not an intervention.
posted by ahtlast93 at 4:34 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
Enjoy your companionship without trying to change or "fix" this guy. Let him be his slightly eccentric self. Consider the possibility that he knows exactly what he's doing and has made the correct choice according to what's important to him.
posted by mattu at 5:35 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mattu at 5:35 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm in this guy's general age range. It might be hard to imagine for you, but I so, so miss my youth before the ubiquity of email and cell phones. If there were still pay phones on every corner, I'd want to throw my cell phone in the river.
When one of my students emails me late at night to ask me to explain something because they didn't come to class, I think about how I used to have to actually plan to go to my professor's office hours to ask them a question. And how that planning changed how well I thought out my question, and how independent it made me as I tried to deal with whatever it was on my own (without googling.)
When my students text their parents constantly to tell them every little problem with every assignment, I remember coming home at the end of the semester feeling like I'd been living in my own world and coping as best as I could as an adult, barely in touch with my parents except for weekly check-in calls on a shared dorm phone.
I remember how great it was to see people in the potential that comes only from waiting without texting or talking -- people standing quietly waiting for a bus, looking around at the world, perhaps beginning a conversation, or perhaps just noticing the way the leaves moved in the trees.
I even remember the joy of reading and writing in a kind of flow that kicked in automatically without the tic-like compulsions of checking email or some celebrity's OMG news flashing into view
And I purposely now don't use email on my phone, though I could if I wanted to. I just don't want to be constantly obligated to be plugged in wherever I am. That's just as far as I feel I can go; if I were braver I'd go live on Lasqueti Island, but since I can't, I just make Siri shut up.
So.... while your intentions are kind, I am guessing that he's living in a way that makes him feel that his life is richer, not poorer.
posted by third rail at 5:58 PM on October 30, 2013 [21 favorites]
When one of my students emails me late at night to ask me to explain something because they didn't come to class, I think about how I used to have to actually plan to go to my professor's office hours to ask them a question. And how that planning changed how well I thought out my question, and how independent it made me as I tried to deal with whatever it was on my own (without googling.)
When my students text their parents constantly to tell them every little problem with every assignment, I remember coming home at the end of the semester feeling like I'd been living in my own world and coping as best as I could as an adult, barely in touch with my parents except for weekly check-in calls on a shared dorm phone.
I remember how great it was to see people in the potential that comes only from waiting without texting or talking -- people standing quietly waiting for a bus, looking around at the world, perhaps beginning a conversation, or perhaps just noticing the way the leaves moved in the trees.
I even remember the joy of reading and writing in a kind of flow that kicked in automatically without the tic-like compulsions of checking email or some celebrity's OMG news flashing into view
And I purposely now don't use email on my phone, though I could if I wanted to. I just don't want to be constantly obligated to be plugged in wherever I am. That's just as far as I feel I can go; if I were braver I'd go live on Lasqueti Island, but since I can't, I just make Siri shut up.
So.... while your intentions are kind, I am guessing that he's living in a way that makes him feel that his life is richer, not poorer.
posted by third rail at 5:58 PM on October 30, 2013 [21 favorites]
Please understand that there is no possible way that a well-read professor in a school where "everyone uses e-mail and Internet" does not know what the Internet has to offer him. He knows, and he's decided it's not for him. You will look and feel very foolish and awkward if you try to "help" him understand it. Leave it alone and enjoy time with someone who isn't checking their cell while they're talking to you.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:48 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:48 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
Pardon me, but who in the hell professor under the age of fifty doesn't know what a cellphone is or what email is? Mind your own business.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:11 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 9:11 PM on October 30, 2013 [2 favorites]
every time he responds that he does not, nor plans to have an e-mail account. That peculiarity I can understand, but
Don't want to seem patronizing or condescending? Start by paying attention.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
Don't want to seem patronizing or condescending? Start by paying attention.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:14 PM on October 30, 2013 [5 favorites]
There is nothing wrong with tactfully bringing up the subject on a walk home as long as you have no agenda about it. He might be dying to articulate why he is so old school. It's not like he can blog about it.
posted by Camofrog at 10:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Camofrog at 10:38 PM on October 30, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'd ask him for tips on how to live the offline life. If he's yearning to get digital, he'll say "oh, I just never learned about that stuff," and there's your opening. If not, you might learn something.
posted by mbrock at 3:10 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mbrock at 3:10 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Hey, you have said that you have no interest in having email or internet access. There has got to be an interesting story behind this and I would love to know what's up with that. What gives?"
There used to be a phrase out there for people who consciously decide to live only with the technology that was available to everyone in 1970 or before...maybe even without a regular broadcast signal television or microwave oven: Urban Amish. It might be economics (he is a poorly-paid teacher who doesn't want the wallet-draining cable bill, internet connection bill, cell phone bill, expensive computer, expensive phone...), or he may want to be saving his pennies for some hobby or passion he likes more than funny cat videos and instant contact with friends, or he may have done the math and realized that he want to retire someday and cannot if he wastes his money and time on this stuff. He may also just be comfortable with what he has/does and sees no reason to change it. It may also be a deliberate avoidance of all the 'chatter' that most of us put up with every day.
People who seem well read and intelligent might actually be well read and intelligent...so can also be very set on what exactly it is that makes them happy and be very willing to do just that even if it goes against cultural norms.
posted by BearClaw6 at 8:52 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
There used to be a phrase out there for people who consciously decide to live only with the technology that was available to everyone in 1970 or before...maybe even without a regular broadcast signal television or microwave oven: Urban Amish. It might be economics (he is a poorly-paid teacher who doesn't want the wallet-draining cable bill, internet connection bill, cell phone bill, expensive computer, expensive phone...), or he may want to be saving his pennies for some hobby or passion he likes more than funny cat videos and instant contact with friends, or he may have done the math and realized that he want to retire someday and cannot if he wastes his money and time on this stuff. He may also just be comfortable with what he has/does and sees no reason to change it. It may also be a deliberate avoidance of all the 'chatter' that most of us put up with every day.
People who seem well read and intelligent might actually be well read and intelligent...so can also be very set on what exactly it is that makes them happy and be very willing to do just that even if it goes against cultural norms.
posted by BearClaw6 at 8:52 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
Please don't assume that you know what another person needs or would want, even if it seems 100% certain that you're right. Your aim might be kind and generous, but efforts to "help" other people should be made only if they ask or express an interest. Sometimes very nice people whom I like a lot try to encourage me to do something that they think would be perfect for me -- a gift I should buy for my mother, a diet that they're enthusiastic about, a TV show that they're a little too determined to get me to watch. Or maybe someone will suggest that would enjoy reading even more if I read things digitally.
There's really nothing offensive about any of these things -- but it creates awkwardness for me when I have to respond. Above all, it makes me wonder why they care so much about the personal decisions I make. I usually suspect that it takes their mind off whatever is boring or troubling them.
I suggest you actively try to 'work your own program.' Make changes and find things that will make your life better. And ask yourself how you benefit by trying to help people when it's not really your appropriate role. You probably get something positive out of it. What else can you do that will give you satisfaction?
posted by wryly at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's really nothing offensive about any of these things -- but it creates awkwardness for me when I have to respond. Above all, it makes me wonder why they care so much about the personal decisions I make. I usually suspect that it takes their mind off whatever is boring or troubling them.
I suggest you actively try to 'work your own program.' Make changes and find things that will make your life better. And ask yourself how you benefit by trying to help people when it's not really your appropriate role. You probably get something positive out of it. What else can you do that will give you satisfaction?
posted by wryly at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2013 [1 favorite]
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I think an offer of friendship or meeting more often then when walking home would be viewed more positively than trying to change his world view. That friendship may lead to him being interested in changing his position, but would be perceived more positively by him.
posted by saeculorum at 1:37 PM on October 30, 2013 [22 favorites]