Old Volvo - good idea?

October 6, 2005 6:49 AM

Current and former Volvo owners, please help me. Is buying a 1996 850 Turbo Wagon with 165,000 miles on it a bad idea?

I have an oppourtunity to purchase one for around $5000 - below KBB Private Party value. The upside is that it is a great car that is in immaculate condition (it almost looks new), the downside being the age of the car and the miles. I know that Volvo's used to be known for being long lasting vehicals, is that still true? Are they more espensive to maintain then other cars? Does it really require premium fuel? Any guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

posted by internal to shopping (28 comments total)

My calculation for the KBB private party value of that car comes to around $4500.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:59 AM on October 6, 2005

Zip code must make quite a difference, KBB for me says $5,290.
posted by internal at 7:03 AM on October 6, 2005

Oh yeah, here are pictures of it!
posted by internal at 7:05 AM on October 6, 2005

Volvos and Saabs are MUCH more expensive to repair than American or Japanese nameplates.

On the other hand, if you get lucky, you'll buy one that won't need much repair if you do your basic maintenance right.
posted by MattD at 7:10 AM on October 6, 2005

Zip code must make quite a difference, KBB for me says $5,290

I used the zip code in your profile for my calculations.

Maybe you are rating the 10 year old car with 165k as "excellent" condition? Without seeing it myself, I'd be reluctant to consider a car that old as "excellent". "Good" condition calculates out to @ $4600 at your zip. What are the extras? That could add in a tiny bit of value too.

It does look like a nice car, don't get me wrong, I just couldn't give an unseen car an "excellent."
posted by Pollomacho at 7:19 AM on October 6, 2005

I have a 97 850 T5 with 120,000 miles and it's a lovely car to travel in. Driving thousand miles from Grand Canyon to Santa Cruz in one day was pleasant rather than exhausting. It's fairly reliable, but not the most reliable car I've had (a 91 Olds Cutlass Ciera was my best car ever fwiw - 250,000 miles with almost no repairs.) Volvo parts and repair work are expensive - replacing a cracked radiator last month cost over $850. It really needs a service every 5000 miles, though ours has not needed anything major. Brakes need new disks more often than usual -- both disks and pads need replacement. I've heard Volvos really must have the timing belt replaced when due, so you should check when that's last been done.

If your main criterion is total reliability I'd say get a Camry or a Civic, but on the other hand the 850 is a nice car if you can afford the upkeep, and it's much safer in a crash. A couple of months ago someone drove into the side of mine, pushing the passenger door into a deep V shape; the door looked totally unusable, but opened and closed as if nothing had happened.
posted by anadem at 7:28 AM on October 6, 2005

The 940 Turbos Volvo produced in the early 90s had some problems, but I don't know about a 96 850. Volvos are only expensive to fix if you have the wrong mechanic, and are actually great cars for someone who can do simple mechanical repairs themselves. My 94 940 GLE has an access hatch on top of the gas tank that is accessible inside the car under some panels. This is going to allow me to repair a hole in my in -tank fuel line by myself, spending about $30 for parts and an hour or two of my time. Other cars would require removal of the entire gas tank, something better left to a mechanic. The belts on my 940 are facing forward and fairly easy to access, so I was able to change those myself as well. For tough repairs, my family has found a good mechanic specializing in European makes who charges us a fair price. Volvo dealers will charge you out the ass. A number of companies make replacement parts for Volvos that are much cheaper than buying from Volvo, and have been reliable in several of my family's cars.

My car has 173,000 miles on it, and runs great. My little sister's old 750 has 450,000 miles on it, and seems to run just as well as mine, although I've only driven it once or twice.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 7:53 AM on October 6, 2005

The most critical part is the turbo, I think. Has is ever been replaced? If this is not the case, expect it to break down sooner or later. Replacing it will be pretty costly. According to some googling, the average lifetime of Volvo turbos is around 120.000 miles.
posted by swordfishtrombones at 7:59 AM on October 6, 2005 [1 favorite]

Oh, and my little sister's Volvo has only recently started showing a little rust after over 20 years. Just a patch above one of the wheel wells. This is in the midwest, where the weather is often wet and they salt the roads heavily in winter. That car is actually a 760 (I accidentally typed 750).
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 8:07 AM on October 6, 2005

I've seen several volvos go way past 200,000 miles.
posted by trbrts at 8:14 AM on October 6, 2005

My wife had that exact car... and it was sweet! (It died in a car crash.)

Every town of any size has a really good Volvo mechanic. You need to find that person and have him take a look at the car to give you a really good evaluation its current state.
posted by ph00dz at 8:17 AM on October 6, 2005

I have had two older ('82, '91) Volvos in the past ten years, and my family has gone through five other Volvos in that time as well. I can only say: they are very expensive to fix. It's the parts, not (necessarily) the work. Volvo parts are often twice as much as Honda/Toyota parts and four times as much as Ford/Chevy parts. They are only a good deal if you can be sure SURE that they are in good condition. Yes, safe. Fairly comfortable. And before it needed thousands of dollars of repairs and we junked it, my 240 had 276, 000 miles on it. Just think about this: all cars will break down, Volvos will cost a lot to fix.
posted by slimslowslider at 8:20 AM on October 6, 2005

Heh, it's funny you asked this question now. I was just reading the latest issue of Autocar (a british car mag), and the back page 'high mileage hero' feature is on the 850T5.

Unfortunately they don't publish much on their website (www.autocar.co.uk) but i'll give you the basic details of what they said below. If you like i could scan the page in and email it.

They said mechanically it's bullet-proof. Engines should last 200k+ miles if cared for. Cambelts need replacing every 80,000. Look for white smoke from the exhaust and listen for loud turbo whine - they are costly to replace.

Serious performance. Apparently it's quicker from 50-70 in top gear than a Ferrari 512TR!!

The scary stuff is fuel economy (which shouldn't bother you what with petrol so cheap over there), and an appetite for tyres. 13,000 miles is a maximum for a pair of front tyres.

Basically I think you should be ok as long as it's got service history and has been looked after.
posted by derbs at 8:36 AM on October 6, 2005

Also they found a '96 850 with 120k miles for £1695 (about $3000). Are European cars normally more expensive in the States?
posted by derbs at 8:38 AM on October 6, 2005

Crikey, that's a gorgeous automobile. There aren't a lot of stylish wagons out there but that is certainly one of them. How many miles a year do you plan on putting on it? The average 12K-15K or is it just a commuter car or (conversely) cross-country vehicle?

Are you paying cash or making payments? A $5000 car would break down to (what?) $150/month for 36 months? That's cheap. In fact, $250/month is cheap. If you can/have the self-discipline, I'd start a savings account where I put the extra $100/month in and earmark it for parts/repairs. That's $1200/year that you will be putting aside. If/when the time comes to make repairs, chances are you'll already have the money. If the car is super-dependable, you'll have cash leftover when you decide to sell/trade it.

I'd go to the Library and get the 2001 or 2002 Consumer Reports auto guides and see what they say about 5 year old 850 Turbos. That will give you an idea of what trouble-spots to especially look at.

It isn't a vehicle that I would probably take cross-country often though. There are wide stretches of the country where they think Volvos are something you don't talk about in mixed company. Break down there and you are looking at BIG bucks getting your car fixed.
posted by spock at 8:39 AM on October 6, 2005

You should have it checked out by a mechanic before you buy it. Any seller who is unwilling to let you have an independent mech examine the car isn't one you want to buy from. Click and Clack write a booklet called "how to buy a great used car" which is worth having (really, their entire set is worth having) which talks about how to do this. The booklet is on the Shameless Commerce section of that website.

I believe the same booklet does a financial examination of the best financial deal when it comes to buying cars and their conclusion is a 3 year old car which you drive to death is the better deal, however this may not take into consideration some makes having over 3 year warr service and it is just an average. It also ignores what I think is important, the value of spending money later rather than sooner.

In addition to what swordfish mentions you might also consider the repercussions of that turbo when gassing up. Yes, it ABSOLUTELY requires premium, no exceptions, so it's going to cost you every time you fuel up. Running regular fuel results in pings which are premature detonation and HARM THE ENGINE. This car may or may not have some computer which will prevent pings and therefor the damage but it does that by retarding (no jokes please) ignition timing and therefor depriving you of power, probably to a level below that of a non-turbo engine.

Personally I think 5k is a but much for a 10 year old car but I drive a $2,000 14 year old car so what do I know?
posted by phearlez at 8:55 AM on October 6, 2005

FWIW, my dad's Volvo 850 GLS is a 1996, has over 100k miles, has had few problems and runs like a champ. Anecdotally, they seem to be good high-mileage cars.
posted by killdevil at 8:55 AM on October 6, 2005

Be very careful. I've seen immaculate cars that have been in serious accidents. You are obviously in love with this car, and that's a bad frame of mind. Have an expert look it over.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:04 AM on October 6, 2005

My dad used to be a Volvo tech before he retired. I've owned six Volvos and my all time favorite was the last one, a 1994 850 Turbo Wagon. I bought it from my parents in 1998 and it had about 100,000 miles on it. I traded it in 2003 with almost 200,000 miles on it and it was still running like new. LOVED that car!
posted by moosedogtoo at 9:20 AM on October 6, 2005

I love my volvo, but it is expensive to fix. On the other hand, if you take good care of it (and do all the due-diligence prior to purchase), it will likely last forever. A good friend of mine just sold his volvo with over 350,000 miles. Still ran well, but he finally could afford to upgrade.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:33 AM on October 6, 2005

Craigslist is always teeming with people willing to violate the CarFax terms of service and run a VIN for you for $1 with their all-you-can-eat subscription or you can pay the $25 for it yourself. It's not foolproof but it has a good chance of determining if there's a (reported) accident in the car's past.

But you still need a mechanic.
posted by phearlez at 9:35 AM on October 6, 2005

Another thing to consider is whether this car will spoil you for the rest of your life. If you've been used to more (ahem) pedestrian automobiles, buying a car like this may make you unsatisfied with less FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. I bought a high-mileage older Audi once and it ruined me. RUINED ME I tell you! I can't live without German Engineering now!
posted by spock at 9:56 AM on October 6, 2005

just to say that my 850/T5 tire experience differs from derbs', and i drive fast (why have a fast car if you don't?) over some very twisty roads (Hwy 17 Santa Cruz to San Jose.) I find tire life fairly normal, get 30,000 up, provided they're rotated etc. Maybe type of tire counts? I'm using Pirelli high-speed tires (but don't have the car here to check the model)

> it's quicker from 50-70 in top gear than a Ferrari 512TR

thanks derbs for that, I'll enjoy it even more now! It's certainly quite a rocket when pushed.
posted by anadem at 10:06 AM on October 6, 2005

The link you provide only has pictures of the interior and the outside sheetmetal. That's basically useless if you're interested in learning about its potential longevity.

I'd like to see a picture of the engine bay, the undercarriage, the insides of the wheel wells, the inside of the trunk... places where rust can creep up. For five grand, the body better be in top shape.

Do you know anything about the service history of the car? When was the timing belt last changed? How about the oil/oil filter? The radiator? Fuel pump? Water pump? At 165,000 miles, one of these things is bound to die soon (if they're original equipment).

I know it's a hassle, but get someone who knows Volvos to take a look at the car. Really, seriously, no kidding around, no "maybe," just do it and suck it up. CarFax can only tell you so much, and in some cases, nothing at all. A car could be in an accident but the owner decided to pay for the damage themselves, for example, and it would never go on the vehicle history.

Expect to spend at least another $500 getting new replaceables in the car once you drive it off the lot. Besides buffing the exterior and vacuuming the carpets, most dealers don't do jack to the car.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 10:38 AM on October 6, 2005

Thanks for all the great information. This has been really helpful.
posted by internal at 12:07 PM on October 6, 2005

This is only one data point, but a few years ago I excitedly bought an 850 Turbo sedan from a neighbor (he loved it, was upgrading to a shiny Lexus GS, wife still drove their other S70). The 850 was a disaster. Never had a serious problem while neighbor owned it, but in the 12 months I owned it, there were problems with an oxygen sensor causing the check engine light to come on all the time; a sensor in the transmission failed, $1000; a month later, then entire transmission failed (locked in D while driving on the highway, nice), $3000. There were a handful of other minor repairs that I can't remember (at $100s each). I never felt comfortable driving it after the transmission fiasco and sold it. When the car was working it was a rocket and quite comfortable.

I have many friends who love their Volvos old and new, but it will be a while before I consider one again. If you ever take it to the dealer for a repair it costs you about $200 just for them to open the hood. Parts are expensive. I found a local repair guy recommended by friends, but the transmission stuff was out of his league.
posted by ldenneau at 1:26 PM on October 6, 2005

I left out one important tidbit: it was a 1997 850 Turbo, had 120K of mostly highway miles on it at the time.
posted by ldenneau at 1:28 PM on October 6, 2005

FWIW: I sold a 2001 Volvo S60 recently. Resale value sucks. Repair bills were outrageous. Do not, under any circumstance, take the vehicle to your local non-specialty shop. They are not equipped or knowledgeable enough to service a Swedish car.

On the other hand, it was a safe, fuel efficient vehicle. In just under 100k miles it had never left me stranded.
posted by vaportrail at 4:42 PM on October 6, 2005