Help my wife figure out how to sever ties with someone
October 21, 2013 6:30 AM   Subscribe

How does my wife tell her father's girlfriend that she doesn't want to maintain a relationship after his (her father's) unexpected death?

So, metafilter, I got married a week ago. 4 days before our wedding day, my father in law died suddenly and unexpectedly of a massive heart attack.

While my wife has been amazing in all of this , she needs help navigating a difficult situation: her father's girlfriend (whom we'll call M.) and her lack of desire to maintain a relationship with M.

Further context: my wife's mother died 4 years ago. 18 months ago, he starting dating a woman we'll call M. At the time of Dad's death, M was in the process of moving in with Dad, and is now (understandably) feeling quite adrift. Wife's relationship with M was cordial and friendly, but nothing further - wife was happy that her dad had found someone new, and that was enough.

The crux of the issue is that now, with Dad's passing, M wants to maintain a relationship with my wife and her brother. Wife doesn't want this, and has no idea how to respectfully, politely, and nicely communicate this. She (my wife) is under no illusion that this won't be crushing to M. My wife is very empathetic and has no desire to hurt M, but recognizes that she may have no choice in the matter.

We're certain that M would like to take on the role of "surrogate mother figure" in our lives (my mother is also not part of our lives.). However, we both already have people in our lives that fill those roles, and again (respectfully) we're (and more importantly, she, my wife) is not interested in a relationship with this woman for that reason.

As you might imagine, my wife is under quite a lot of stress, what with dealing with her father's estate and our new marriage under these circumstances. The last thing she needs is the stress and pressure of a relationship with a woman with whom any association is just a constant reminder of the loss of her father.

M wants to have lunch with my wife sometime this week. Wife would like to tell M at that time.

So, mefites, what does she say?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (26 answers total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- cortex

 
For the short term, I would say, "I would appreciate it if you would give me some time to grieve with my husband privately, as I am finding all of this overwhelming."


Later, it can become a matter of not interacting. No need to make a big production out of stating that you shall henceforth sever ties forever.
posted by xingcat at 6:35 AM on October 21, 2013 [21 favorites]


xingcat said exactly what I was thinking. Your wife lost her father less than two weeks ago; there is no need to make any big decisions about M at this time. She should take some time in the short-term and see how she feels later. M loved her father, too, and might be a nice person to talk to about him once the initial grief wears off.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:37 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]


Xingcat has it. Everyone grieves in his or her own way. Your wife can say that she's too overwhelmed right now to interact with M, but she'll be in touch once she's on firmer footing.

I wouldn't go to lunch with M. I'd send an email or just call her to beg off. "After the shock of the death of my father, and the ensuing emotional turmoil surrounding our wedding, I'm still processing everything, perhaps we can get together later." And leave it at that.

Don't write M off right now. Just put her on the back burner. It may be that M will move forward with her friends and may never call your wife back again.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:40 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sorry this is such a typical Metafilter "Deny the premise" response, but my answer is not not tell her anything. Be kind during the lunch, and see her when your schedule permits it. Maybe send her an email every week for a month, then eat lunch again every few months. You don't have to invite her to Christmas dinner or anything, and if she invites herself to things then the conversation could take place. But that doesn't mean you have to be honest about your lack of interest in having her in your life. There's a middle ground where you can let her down easy. She is alone and sad. What does it cost you?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:41 AM on October 21, 2013 [10 favorites]


I understand that this is a terrible time for your wife, but it's a terrible time for M as well. I know you know this, but your framing of the question indicates that maybe you haven't considered it much.

M has just lost the person she thought was going to be her future life partner. I think it would be unnecessarily cruel for your wife to tell her this week that she wants to cut contact with her.

I think your wife needs to either put the lunch off until later, or go to the lunch, keep it brief, and deflect any efforts M makes towards future involvement.

Sympathy to you all.
posted by Salamander at 6:41 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


Remember that M is grieving too. Now is definitely not the right time for this conversation. Don't have the lunch, just be unavailable for a while until you've all had some time for emotions to settle.
posted by ook at 6:42 AM on October 21, 2013 [7 favorites]


As you said, M is feeling very alone and adrift. Her partner is dead, and she is grieving. It is fully understandable for her to reach out to your wife, the daughter of the person she was probably expecting to spend the rest of her life with. It may not be what your wife wants or needs right now, but I don't think M is being unreasonable at all. For your wife to tell M now that she has no interest in maintaining a relationship with her would be cruel. She lost her partner and everything she was expecting for her future has been tossed in to the wind. Don't also give her the added kick in the stomach of "And my dead partner's daughter declared she wants nothing to do with me.". That would be devestating in an already hugely difficult and sad time.

Don't go to the lunch, beg off current contact using xingcat's response. I absolutely get why your wife would feel that way, and I absolutely think it is fair game to not want to maintain that relationship, but now is not the time to make that understood.


My sympathy to your wife and your family. It sounds like an incredibly sad and difficult situation for all involved.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 6:49 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


Agreed--if she says anything at the lunch, just let it be that she needs time to come to terms with her father's death on her own. Otherwise, just be civil and commune with her as two people who have lost a close loved one.

Then just fade away.

Keep in mind, as well, that there probably is going to be a not insignificant amount of contact in the probate period, etc. If it were me, I wouldn't drop big bombs until the estate is settled; it could just make a stressful time more unpleasant.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:51 AM on October 21, 2013


Mod note: From the OP:
Clarification:

We can appreciate the advice to go no contact for a while, but that's not yet an option - M still has a key to Dad's house, and still has a considerable amount of possessions therein. Wife (and brother) both want these things gone and key returned - that conversation is slated to happen this week irrespective of any lunch date with M. M is also calling frequently, dropping by unannounced (and taking things from the house that aren't hers without asking - nothing consequential yet, but it's a concern), and overall just not showing any indication that she understands that this is not her home (even if it was going to be in a few short weeks), and she can no longer "just show up".

M has also made statements about considering Wife and brother as her children - statements that neither wife nor brother is comfortable with. This is a cause for concern for both wife and brother going forward.

So, to reframe slightly - how can wife politely and respectfully convey "Please stay away while we process" when M wants to grieve/process collectively and neither wife nor brother is interested in such?
posted by taz (staff) at 6:51 AM on October 21, 2013


This woman lost her partner. Cutting her off completely because she reminds your wife of her dad is cruel.

Be kind. You don't need to be overly accommodating or bend over backwards. You don't have to let her mother you. But she might not know other people who were intimately acquainted with your dad, and cutting her off completely is not in service to . . . well, the community of humanity.

Again, I'm not saying you have to bend to her every desire. But your wife is acting rashly, and acknowledging hurt you cause is not at all the same as being empathetic.

I'd go to lunch in a few weeks, if your wife is presently too overwhelmed. Maintain polite contact. As others have said, if it's a problem in the future, address it then. There's no indication from your question that there's any real problem with poor boundaries now.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:51 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]


M still has a key to Dad's house, and still has a considerable amount of possessions therein. Wife (and brother) both want these things gone and key returned - that conversation is slated to happen this week irrespective of any lunch date with M. M is also calling frequently, dropping by unannounced (and taking things from the house that aren't hers without asking - nothing consequential yet, but it's a concern), and overall just not showing any indication that she understands that this is not her home (even if it was going to be in a few short weeks), and she can no longer "just show up".

I suggest that your wife and her brother look at their father's will and consult with a lawyer before having "that conversation" with someone who has a key to the house and her own possessions inside it. Depending on how that goes, the personal/emotional issue may take care of itself.
posted by headnsouth at 6:57 AM on October 21, 2013 [6 favorites]


Imagine if you or your wife had died 4 days before your wedding instead.

How would you want your family to act toward your wife --- after all, they wouldn't be family until after the wedding, right? Even if you'd been living together for years. How would your wife want her family to act toward you? How would each of you had wanted to be treated? Or have expected to be treated?

Proceed from there, with compassion.
posted by zizzle at 6:57 AM on October 21, 2013 [12 favorites]


We can appreciate the advice to go no contact for a while, but that's not yet an option - M still has a key to Dad's house, and still has a considerable amount of possessions therein. Wife (and brother) both want these things gone and key returned - that conversation is slated to happen this week irrespective of any lunch date with M. M is also calling frequently, dropping by unannounced (and taking things from the house that aren't hers without asking - nothing consequential yet, but it's a concern), and overall just not showing any indication that she understands that this is not her home (even if it was going to be in a few short weeks), and she can no longer "just show up".

By "dropping by unannounced" do you mean that she is dropping by the house she almost shared with your wife's dad, or your house?

Again, this woman is grieving too. She lost her partner ten days ago. While I understand that there are legal matters to settle, and your wife and her brother might be on the alert because their father's house is now "theirs," this really needs to be approached with sensitivity, empathy, and kindness.

She loved this man--just like your wife did. She had plans for the future with him. She's likely feeling quite tetherless and alone. Kindness is hard during grief, because grief makes us all a little selfish (I've witnessed enough estate blow-ups to know this). If your wife isn't in a position to muster compassion, it might be a good time for you to step in as an intermediary.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:58 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]


M still has a key to Dad's house, and still has a considerable amount of possessions therein.

Do you know what is in Dad's will? It might not be your wife and her brother's place to say what's happening with that house.
posted by xingcat at 7:01 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


that she understands that this is not her home

I would also argue that this is a fallacy. Of course it was her home. She loved your wife's father. She was in the process of moving in with him. They probably had plans about how to make it "their" home. She had visions of what she wanted her new life with your wife's dad to look like. Of course it was her home. Maybe she doesn't own the house --- maybe that's not in her name --- but from an emotional grieving standpoint? That was her home.
posted by zizzle at 7:04 AM on October 21, 2013 [6 favorites]


Mod note: From the OP:
Wife is exectur of will. Wife and brother are only beneficiaries. M was not mentioned or provided for in any legal sense anywhere by Dad.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:07 AM on October 21, 2013


I don't think now is the time to tell M that wife does not want a relationship with her going forward. Necessarily, she is going to have to have some sort of relationship with her for the next few weeks as everything related to the estate gets straightened out (even though M is not a beneficiary, she will likely have questions about the estate).

It is important right now to not mix the legal side (disposition of the estate, even though M is not a beneficiary, keys to the house, etc.) with the relational side (what relationship does she have relative to wife and brother, how close will they be going forward).

I would suggest canceling lunch - M and wife are both grieving, and it doesn't sound like lunch is something that would be helpful right now for wife. OP should convey the message, suggest gently it be rescheduled for later.

Since it sounds like M's wording and actions are particularly getting on wife's nerves, OP, why don't YOU schedule a time to meet M over at the house? Offer to help M move all her stuff, if that is something you feel able to do, and get the key from her at that time. If M requests any items that are not hers kindly ask her to make a list of the things she's requesting and to send it to wife and brother (though wife is executor, if you say no then she is not alone being the 'bad guy'). When you lock up and take the key, let her know that for insurance purposes no one will be going into the house for some time, and ask that she also respect that. Ask her to let you know if she has forgotten something or needs to go back over.

Give her a hug, if you feel like you are able. M has experienced a significant loss as well, and though wife is finding it (very reasonably) difficult to cope with M's response, both of them are grieving. Tell her you hope that you all can schedule a time to get together but not for a while.

Finish the legal side. Then do the slow fade on the personal side. Good luck.
posted by stewiethegreat at 7:08 AM on October 21, 2013 [9 favorites]


Unless the stepmother was abusive or had a bad/contentious relationship with wife and brother in law, the best thing to do is the slow fade away, where you cut contact slowly.

To address other issues in your update, though - you need the executor of the will to speak with stepmom; no distributions (items, whatever) should be made from the estate before things are settled. They may be able to legally change the locks on your dad's place as well. (Unless stepmom is the executor of the estate, of course.)
posted by elizardbits at 7:09 AM on October 21, 2013


M still has a key to Dad's house, and still has a considerable amount of possessions therein. Wife (and brother) both want these things gone and key returned - that conversation is slated to happen this week irrespective of any lunch date with M.

Her partner died ten days ago. And you've "slated" a conversation for this week about how you "want her things gone"????

I think you guys need to back way the fuck up. I think the way you guys are behaving is stunning in its callousness and cruelty. You don't want a relationship with her, you don't want her as a mother figure, that's all fine. But you don't get to just throw her out with the trash. Your wife is not the only one in pain. Being in pain does NOT mean that she gets to treat people like this.

Treat this woman with quite a bit more humanity, please. You can tell her that you want personal space. You can have boundaries. All of that is fine. But please don't treat her as a bit of unwanted garbage with no feelings and no rights. Your wife's feelings are not infinitely more important than those of this woman, to my perspective. Also, regardless of her appearance or not in the will, she may still have certain legal rights, depending on your location. Please also do not try to trample on the woman's legal rights in this situation or make her feel pressured or bullied into giving them up.
posted by cairdeas at 7:11 AM on October 21, 2013 [35 favorites]


reverse this story. If someone did to you what you seem to be asking permission from us to do, how would you feel? Pretty upset.

Basically you are wrong and you shouldn't do this.
posted by JPD at 7:12 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm in the "don't do this" camp as well - it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction in a situation where only time will make anything easier or clearer.

But if you have to do it, remember the golden rule: be kind.
posted by greenish at 7:15 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wife is exectur of will. Wife and brother are only beneficiaries. M was not mentioned or provided for in any legal sense anywhere by Dad.

Well then that makes your wife her landlord. She probably ended whatever lease she was on, or sold her house, or whatever in order to move in on X date. So at least (at the very, very least) give her what a landlord would give her to line up a new home. Ask her to not take anything, take pictures of all the things/rooms, and let her grieve and plan her next steps with some breathing space.
posted by headnsouth at 7:16 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


One very good reason to put off making any kind of "statement" to M is that you need to get a lawyer involved, have a look at your father-in-law's will, and otherwise examine your legal options. Depending on the law of the land and the will, it is entirely possible that you may not be able to keep M out of your father-in-law's house. Moreover, given the fact that M was in the process of moving in to your father-in-law's house, it seems likely that she made or terminated various financial and other obligations, may have given up her own home, etc. If she has terminated a lease or sold her home, it may be extremely difficult and expensive for her to rearrange her living arrangements, especially if she is locked out of the house she had been moving into. It's not that I don't understand your wife's position, but it seems a bit self-centered and cruel to inflict this on someone who just suffered the loss of a lover with whom she presumably intended to spend the rest of her life. It is entirely possible to let any relationship or possibility of "surrogate motherhood" die out through a lapse of meaningful contact, but locking her out of the house at this early stage is beyond the pale.
posted by slkinsey at 7:18 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


and taking things from the house that aren't hers without asking - nothing consequential yet, but it's a concern

"Hey, we've noticed a couple of things missing from Dad's house and while we're clearing up the estate stuff our lawyer asked us to ask you to please not remove anything from the house without talking to us first. Sorry for the horrible timing - it's a terrible time for all of us - but s/he asked us to mention it."
posted by mediareport at 7:26 AM on October 21, 2013 [8 favorites]


Your wife will not regret being kind to her father's girlfriend in the wake of her father's death. Kind doesn't mean keeping up a relationship -- there are many good suggestions here for how to let this die slowly. But it does mean that she should bear in mind that M was about to move into their house, that her father probably didn't expect to die and did intend to give something to M in his will but hadn't gotten around to it yet, and that M is grieving as much as she is.

You should offer to be the go-between, because kindness and generosity are really, really hard in grief, but regret for acting cruelly is harder in the long run.
posted by jeather at 7:32 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I'm in the just wait it out camp. It seems to me like this woman is probably feeling quite alone, she was probably quite excited about finding a partner and looking forward to becoming part of a larger family. I know one of the hardest parts of ending a ltr is that you have to break up with the whole family, not just your partner. For her, this was ripped away suddenly and she had no choice in the matter. It may just be the grief and loneliness talking when she says she considers your wife family. She may be clinging on to any shred of the exciting new life she was about to embark on...what had been her vision of the future. In time, she'll move on and find a more appropriate support system. I'd just keep it civil and try my best to have some compassion.

If I were your wife I might be asking myself why it's so important to cut ties right now. Will it really be that much easier to grieve if she's out of the picture? Would it really feel better knowing that her dad's partner is out in the cold?
posted by hannahelastic at 7:36 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]


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