Comments on: There's dishes in the back

Question: There's dishes in the back

tellurian — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:07:29 -0800

I was listening to Kanye West's recent song (Golddigger) and he mentioned washing dishes instead of paying the restaurant bill. Has anyone (or know anyone, who has ever done this)?

I wouldn't mind doing it at some restaurants but I don't know if they would be too happy. Is it just an urban myth or a throwback to the depression times when people had to eat and did whatever was neccessary?
If I did do it I would be prepared to pay (so it's a bit of a game, and a way to get familiar with the kitchen staff) but do you think that the management would be more inclined to call the cops than negotiate?

By: veedubya

veedubya — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:26:13 -0800

I don't know whether it's true or not, but I was told that, whilst it's a criminal offence torefuse to pay a bill, it's only a civil offence to pay a part of it. That is, say, the bill is £50, but you pay only £1, as long as you provide the restaurant with your contact details, they can sue you for the difference, but can't call the police. Most restaurants, I was told, wouldn't bother with suing. This is in the UK, by the way.

As to doing the washing up instead of paying, we tried suggesting that as a joke at a fantastic seefood retaurant in Portsmouth, a few years ago. The owner realised that it was a joke, and sent out the chef, who was absolutely huge and carrying the biggest meat-cleaver I'd ever seen, to 'negotiate'. We ended up getting so drunk that we slept that night in our cars in the car-park. And we paid the bill. And left a heck of a tip.

By: Saucy Intruder

Saucy Intruder — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:26:32 -0800

Us lawyers got in the way. Having non-employees hanging around the kitchen and performing restaurant related tasks is problematic from a liability and minimum wage perspective. You could probably contract around this, but it would be hard to do this spontaneously in the event of nonpayment, unless this happened quite often and the restaurant owner had a stack of forms nearby.

sorry, I know we ruin everything for the rest of you

By: loquax

loquax — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:46:54 -0800

whilst it's a criminal offence torefuse to pay a bill

In Canada at least, this isn't true. The entire "bill" is a contract for the exchange of food for money at a later time. If you cannot or refuse to pay, the restaurant could sue you for breach of contract, but that's it. They could not have you arrested, or confine you in any way. The cops will laugh at them if they are called, and tell them to get a lawyer.

By: wsg

wsg — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 08:56:39 -0800

My old boss was known as a pushover to hobos and homeless people who used to show up at the back door looking for a meal. He wouldn't have them wash dishes, but he'd give them a fish sandwich for picking up the parking lot.

By: reverendX

reverendX — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:15:05 -0800

IANAL, but it seems like if you enter a restaurant, order food, and have no intent to pay for it at the time of ordering it, that is a prima facie case of fraud. That is why it could be a criminal offense. I believe some states also have specific criminal code sections dealing with non-payment at a restaurant.

By: grouse

grouse — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:18:52 -0800

I was told that, whilst it's a criminal offence torefuse to pay a bill, it's only a civil offence to pay a part of it

I don't believe this, even for the UK, if you intentionally paid only part of the bill with the hope of escaping the rest of it, or making it difficult for the creditor to collect it. You have any references to support this?

By: johngoren

johngoren — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:26:36 -0800

This happened in the Sam Raimi / Coen Bros. film "Crime Wave" (not recommended)

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:46:34 -0800

Dishwashing in exchange for supper was a theme in Robert Heinlein's Job: A Comedy of Justice.

By: Count Ziggurat

Count Ziggurat — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:56:13 -0800

IANAL, but like reverendX said, this sounds fairly fraudulent. They wouldn't call the police though.

Mind, I wouldn't try it at any restaurant I intended to return to.

By: Clay201

Clay201 — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:56:20 -0800

When I was a kid in the seventies, my mother read or saw an interview with Hugh Downs in which he talked about an incident like this from his youth. (He was born in '21, so we're probably talking the early '40s). I think he'd just left home and moved to the big city. He was hungry and broke. When presented with the check, he freely confessed that he didn't have a cent, figuring they'd make him wash dishes or something. Instead, they had him arrested and thrown in jail.

By: spinifex23

spinifex23 — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:14:42 -0800

There was a restaurant called Boomtown Cafe in Seattle that, until very recently aceepted 'work' in lieu of payment for a meal. It was located in the heart of downtown, was aimed at the homeless/poor population, and the food was both good quality and inexpensive. And if you didn't have any money at all, you could pay for it for 15 minutes of work, like doing dishes, instead.

I can't remember if it's still operational or not.

By: Brian James

Brian James — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:23:56 -0800

And who can forget the dishwashing-for-milkshake-and-tuna-platter in Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

But no, I've never heard of anyone actually doing this.

By: Xalf

Xalf — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:58:06 -0800

This civil/criminal thing sounds like bs, but I don't know anything about UK law. In New York State Penal Law § 165.15(2) defines a crime called "Theft of Services" which would include not paying your bill at a restaurant. There's no question that the police can arrest you for it.

By: Atreides

Atreides — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 11:15:50 -0800

One time I was eating at IHOP and when I went to pay for the bill, I realized I'd left my wallet at home just down the street. I told the manager,"I'll have to go get my wallet, I live right down the street." Of course, I dont' think he believed a single word of it, but just let me leave. The bill was probably under $15, so that may have had something to do with his dismissal of the matter.

Course, I felt kind of disappointed that he didn't say a good word when I returned five minutes later to pay for my bill. Meh.

By: Mo Nickels

Mo Nickels — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:21:16 -0800

The Hardy Boys did it in one of their books. They came to New York City with only a little money in their pockets. But the eeeevil restaurant owner had put a very tiny note at the bottom of the menu saying that the prices went up after a certain time of the evening. After eating, they could not pay for their meal! The felt like noobs. The owner let them wash dishes for a while to finish paying. They were late for their detective work! But their father, Fenton Hardy, approved of their clever dish-washing solution.

By: Optamystic

Optamystic — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:38:06 -0800

When I hitchhiked across the U.S., I did this several times. I asked in advance, though. If you wait until the end of the meal, you're crossing the line from "being hard up" to "being an asshole", and you will likely be treated accordingly.

By: Alt F4

Alt F4 — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:09:46 -0800

One of my best friends did this in college at a Waffle House. It was around three in the morning (I think), and he agreed to wash the dishes before he was served the food. After the meal, he was taken back to the kitchen (well, the "back kitchen," since Waffle Houses have the food prep out in the main area), and was put in front of a sink that was filled with the day's pots, pans, dishes, mixing bowls, etc., full of crusty eggs, dried batter, and Grade B steak grease. He told me later it was the worst deal he'd ever made.

By: acoutu

acoutu — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:31:35 -0800

I'm not sure I believe that dine & dashes are just a breach of contract in Canada. Is there a reference for this? If the restaurant charged for preparation and service of food, this might be true. But a good is included with those services -- the menu is set up to list goods (menu items). Wouldn't this mean you're stealing the good, which happened to be prepared and served? You're obstructing the owner's enjoyment of that property.

WRT the question in the post, I think this would only work if you negotiated with the restaurant before you ordered.

By: veedubya

veedubya — Sun, 02 Oct 2005 03:00:39 -0800

I freely admit that the criminal/civil offence thing could be balderdash. I did actually point out that I didn't know whether it was true or not.

No I don't have any references for it, right now. However, rest assured that I'll be sure to include them in my doctoral thesis regarding the likelihood of exchanging a stint as a dish-washer for a good meal.

By: jack_mo

jack_mo — Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:28:40 -0800

IANAL, but I know that if you get bad food and poor service in a restaurant, you can pay what you believe the meal was worth rather than the amount on the bill. (I've done this a few times, citing made-up legalese when quibbling over the bill, and, from the response, it's something restaurateurs have heard of and will honour, even if there's no genuine legal basis for part-payment for a crap meal.)