Is it possible to tell what this bruise is from and how old it is?

September 12, 2013 7:55 PM

1) Can you tell if this is a fresh bruise or one that is a couple of days old? 2) Can you tell if the bruise is the result of someone grabbing the arm?

My son came home from pre-school with this bruise today and we suspect that it is a result of one of the teachers grabbing him too hard when she picked him up. (They did tell us about what happened, but I'll be meeting with the director tomorrow and I want to have more information about this bruise.) I've searched around online to try to learn more about identifying bruises, but I still am not sure if this is a fresh bruise or one that is a couple of days old. Also, it is a very odd shape and I think it looks like finger marks, but maybe there is a better explanation based on the pattern.

Whether or not the bruise is from the incident today, we are taking what happened very seriously.

posted by imposster to Health & Fitness (13 answers total)

I'm a little confused. Do you have other information that would lead you to suspect that scenario? Did your son tell you that what happened? Kids get bruises all the time and that one doesn't look - to me, on my screen, in this somewhat washed-out photo - any worse than most. To answer your question, it doesn't look like finger marks to me, as I would imagine that would wrap around the arm horizontally rather than vertically as this one does...but honestly, I don't know for sure and I can't imagine anyone else would, either. I would go by what your son says, your teacher says, and what the administration says, and set aside any forensic investigation or amateur photo analysis unless it gets to a point where authorities need to be involved.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 8:11 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

Hm, I used to get bruises all the time from people grabbing me hard when I would play rugby, and they looked pretty different from this. Most of the time there was one bruise per finger, and even if the individual fingers melded into another there would be larger globs where the fingers actually were. I can't rule it out entirely that someone grabbed him, but if my son came home with this -- barring other strong reasons for thinking someone did grab him too hard -- I wouldn't think twice about it.

I am not you, I didn't talk to your son, rugby is different from preschoolers, I'm just going from a photo, etc. etc.
posted by forza at 8:21 PM on September 12, 2013

Response by poster: The teacher says she picked him up under his armpits and put him into line to leave the classroom. At that point he grabbed his arm and started crying that his arm hurt. When you ask him how she grabbed him, he shows that she grabbed his arms as they were folded in front of him. He also says that she was angry when she grabbed him.

I'm just trying to figure out if the bruise can provide any information on what happened. It might not, but I don't know--so I'm asking. (I know the bruise could have been pre existing, but we hadn't noticed it before he came home.)
posted by imposster at 8:23 PM on September 12, 2013

Best answer: National Institutes of Health states: A bruise cannot accurately be aged from clinical assessment in vivo or on a photograph. At this point in time the practice of estimating the age of a bruise from its colour has no scientific basis and should be avoided in child protection proceedings.

Systematic Reviews of Bruising... Of 1495 potential studies, only three met the inclusion criteria for ageing of bruises in 2004, confirming that it is inaccurate to do so with the naked eye. This was roundly rejected when first reported, generating a wave of new studies attempting to determine a scientifically valid method to age bruises, none of which are applicable in children yet. Regarding patterns of bruising that may be suggestive or diagnostic of abuse, we included 23 of 167 studies reviewed in 2004, although only 2 were comparative studies. Included studies noted that unintentional bruises occur predominantly on the front of the body, over bony prominences and their presence is directly correlated to the child's level of independent mobility. Bruising patterns in abused children, differed in location (most common site being face, neck, ear, head, trunk, buttocks, arms), and tended to be larger. Updates have included a further 14 studies, including bruising in disabled children, defining distinguishing patterns in severely injured abused and non-abused children, and importance of petechiae.
posted by JujuB at 8:26 PM on September 12, 2013 [13 favorites]

Hand marks are pretty defined. A new bruise is darker and more sore, ESP on the edges. They yellow when nearly healed
posted by femmme at 8:26 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: JujuB, that is really helpful since many "medical" and "health websites claim the opposite and even have little charts to guide you.
posted by imposster at 8:28 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

As PI noted, its really unlikely for someone to be able to identify the specifics of this bruise by a photo.

My daughter comes home from daycare, outside, and from grammas house with similar looking bruises occasionally, and given the amount of times I've seen her yank something down onto herself, fall down, and generally horseplay, I probably wouldn't even give this a second thought. (Something we have been trying to correct is every time she has a scratch on her, she says that Sherri (her daycare teacher) stabbed her. I have no idea where she got this, but it is a bit odd to say the least)

But, you know your child, and how dependable his observations and understanding can be. This obviously varies on the child, as I am fairly certain that Sherri is not stabbing my daughter with a itty bitty pixie's dagger, and she never has fear or hesitancy about going to daycare, so I think I can chalk that up to a toddler's fantasy/misunderstanding. (She also has mentioned that my wife has hit me with a hammer, which I think I would've remembered ... I blame Dora the Explorer, personally)

As noted above, I would leave the bruise as an aside in your meeting with the director, and stick to what your son told you, and what the teacher responds.
posted by Debaser626 at 8:35 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

If you're not comfortable with your child's daycare and the standard of care they give - and you don't trust them not to hurt your child - then you should change daycare, immediately. You don't need to justify it, just change it up.

That being said, I would not use a bruise like as a justification; it could have gotten there are hundred different ways, is not especially bad so far as bruises go, and children of all ages are the most unreliable witnesses in the history of the world, ever.

But none of that matters, if you don't trust the centre, just change it. I think trust is really fundamental to a good, healthy childcare situation: if you and the centre don't trust each other, every time your kid is injured (and kids being kids, that will be lots), you will be suspicious; and they will be very sensitive and probably touchy in face of this suspicion. Not worth it, in my opinion.

/Former childcare worker.
posted by smoke at 8:53 PM on September 12, 2013 [7 favorites]

Child abuse investigations supervisor here. I'd make a report to CPS and let them figure out if this is an inflicted injury or not-it's what they do. It's very difficult for even doctors to accurately age bruises and they no longer train CPS folks to do that in my state-about the best we can do is gauge relative age of bruises in different stages of healing on the same person.

I have young kids, kids get bruises all the time. That's an odd bruise and coupled with your son's story-I'd call.
posted by purenitrous at 9:03 PM on September 12, 2013 [3 favorites]

That doesn't look like any sort of a grabbing bruise I've ever gotten (I bruise very easily, including broken blood vessels in stripes over my shoulders/arms if my bags are heavy). There doesn't seem to be a fingertip or finger-length bruise and if she had picked him up the way he said I'm not able to make sense of how that would cause that kind of bruise. But, if he had already bruised his arm and she picked him up like that, it would probably hurt and if she were also angry, that's what he would remember, not bashing his arm into the swing while he was playing earlier.

Not a CPS professional here.
posted by geek anachronism at 10:33 PM on September 12, 2013 [12 favorites]

Funny, when I read that your kid had said he'd been grabbed, saw the bruise then read your description of the teacher's grab, I immediately thought it might be a bruise from the teacher's arms rather than hands. A bruise like that could come from the teacher's forearm bone.

Hypothetical, eh, and assuming a modicum of good faith on the part of everyone involved (though I too agree with smoke, if you're not comfortable with the childcare, you don't need the bruise as justification for changing). Kid's tired, maybe acting out as kids do when tired, teacher is exasperated (perhaps indeed angry, not great in an adult charged with childcare), kid puts arms in front of himself when teacher tries to pick him up, teacher puts arm(s) around the kid to pick him up, forearm bone digs a bit into kid's arm and creates longish bruise.
posted by fraula at 2:25 AM on September 13, 2013

I don't understand how that could be a grabbing bruise, unless the teacher picked him up by the elbow with one finger. I think fraula's explanation makes more sense, but who knows?
posted by spaltavian at 7:26 AM on September 13, 2013

It looks like 3 finger tips to me - I bruise easily so I'm used to trying to gage when/how a new bruise happened.

Just change day care facilities. Call CPS if you want.

I'm not saying your child was subjected to anger or abuse, but the well is tainted for you here, and it's better to start over in a new place unless there is something very compelling and special about this place.
posted by jbenben at 10:46 AM on September 13, 2013