No Carb Woes
September 12, 2013 9:52 AM Subscribe
I've done a very strict no carb diet for 3.5 weeks now, and haven't lost any weight, haven't seen any change in clothing fit, never felt particularly terrible (ie never saw a "carb crash"). BF who is eating the same exact diet has visibly shed pounds and looks fantastic.
I know women tend to loose weight much slower then men, but this is feeling a little rediculous. Should I stay with the diet?
YANAD, YANMD, MY doc says joint paint will probably lessen if I drop some lbs.
So we've been doing a very strict (under 20g of carb per day) no carb diet for almost a month and my bf has seen spectacular results while I'm at about the same place I was before.
We've stopped drinking beer and wine, and now only have a shot of rum in seltzer if we're feeling the need for a drink. Neither of us really ever eat fruit or put sugar on things, or have dessert, so that part of the diet was pretty easy for us. We drink either black tea or coffee throughout the day. I take a b-complex vitamin.
BF has probably dropped 15 lb so far, pants shirts are starting to hang loose on him, is never hungry, feels fantastic, looks really good. I have seen no change, and continue to be ravenous. (granted, I've always been perpetually hungry, so was really hoping that the whole "not hungry thing" low carb people rave about would actually happen)
I've never really dieted before (I'm fairly active, walk everywhere, ski and climb, so it's never been something I've focused on), and I've been within 5-8lb of the same weight for the past decade (175lb range, 5'9", size 10) so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is typical for a woman on a diet, or if I'm doing it wrong. The first week on this diet it was strange to eat so much fat and cheese, but now I've gotten used to it. WRT exercise, I walk everywhere (including home from work1-2x a week- about 3m), hit up the gym 2 times a week to run (about 2miles usually) and haven't changed those habits. I will start ramping up the gym time to include weight training as we get into fall/closer to winter.
At this point, I'm dreaming about toast, my delicious macaroni cheeses, and would love to throw back a beer. I'm willing to stick with this diet (we both cook, so it hasn't been terrible and our meals pretty delish), but it definitely makes going out a bit more difficult, and eating all this meat is definitely driving up costs.
How much longer should I stick with it? How long do women stick with diets usually before seing results? Should I ramp up excerise while still on the diet, or work more carbs in first?
I'm on this diet because my joints are beginning to show their age, and I would like to drop a few pounds before ski season to help lessen the impact on my hips and knees.
YANAD, YANMD, MY doc says joint paint will probably lessen if I drop some lbs.
So we've been doing a very strict (under 20g of carb per day) no carb diet for almost a month and my bf has seen spectacular results while I'm at about the same place I was before.
We've stopped drinking beer and wine, and now only have a shot of rum in seltzer if we're feeling the need for a drink. Neither of us really ever eat fruit or put sugar on things, or have dessert, so that part of the diet was pretty easy for us. We drink either black tea or coffee throughout the day. I take a b-complex vitamin.
BF has probably dropped 15 lb so far, pants shirts are starting to hang loose on him, is never hungry, feels fantastic, looks really good. I have seen no change, and continue to be ravenous. (granted, I've always been perpetually hungry, so was really hoping that the whole "not hungry thing" low carb people rave about would actually happen)
I've never really dieted before (I'm fairly active, walk everywhere, ski and climb, so it's never been something I've focused on), and I've been within 5-8lb of the same weight for the past decade (175lb range, 5'9", size 10) so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is typical for a woman on a diet, or if I'm doing it wrong. The first week on this diet it was strange to eat so much fat and cheese, but now I've gotten used to it. WRT exercise, I walk everywhere (including home from work1-2x a week- about 3m), hit up the gym 2 times a week to run (about 2miles usually) and haven't changed those habits. I will start ramping up the gym time to include weight training as we get into fall/closer to winter.
At this point, I'm dreaming about toast, my delicious macaroni cheeses, and would love to throw back a beer. I'm willing to stick with this diet (we both cook, so it hasn't been terrible and our meals pretty delish), but it definitely makes going out a bit more difficult, and eating all this meat is definitely driving up costs.
How much longer should I stick with it? How long do women stick with diets usually before seing results? Should I ramp up excerise while still on the diet, or work more carbs in first?
I'm on this diet because my joints are beginning to show their age, and I would like to drop a few pounds before ski season to help lessen the impact on my hips and knees.
How many CALORIES are you eating now, vs before?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:53 AM on September 12, 2013 [24 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:53 AM on September 12, 2013 [24 favorites]
Maybe your body just wants to be at its current size and/or you don't have as much fat to lose as you think? Your height/weight ratio sounds pretty good to me (but I am a curvy lady and like seeing ladies at that size, so...)
At the very least I'd give it another month or two. It takes me about 3 months for my body to realize that I've changed my diet and respond accordingly.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:08 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
At the very least I'd give it another month or two. It takes me about 3 months for my body to realize that I've changed my diet and respond accordingly.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:08 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Previously when I've tracked food, I ate about 1800 calories consistently for a year (that was last year) (alternating from 1450-2100 depending on drinks/type of meal/quantity)
We have not been tracking calories with this diet, as one of the features (alledgedly) is that since you're not hungry, you don't eat as much. Based on what I am eating today (and assuming a steak dinner+ salad, no drinks) I count 1450 calories.
So it's probably safe to assume I'm eating the same, to slightly less of the same amount of calories.
I guess I'm mostly just frustrated by BF shedding weight before my eyes, eating the same exact thing (we eat breakfast and dinner together, and carry the same lunch(his bigger), with him also eating an extra snack every day).
Being able to eat cheese in large quanitities is how he got me to do this diet.
posted by larthegreat at 10:09 AM on September 12, 2013
We have not been tracking calories with this diet, as one of the features (alledgedly) is that since you're not hungry, you don't eat as much. Based on what I am eating today (and assuming a steak dinner+ salad, no drinks) I count 1450 calories.
So it's probably safe to assume I'm eating the same, to slightly less of the same amount of calories.
I guess I'm mostly just frustrated by BF shedding weight before my eyes, eating the same exact thing (we eat breakfast and dinner together, and carry the same lunch(his bigger), with him also eating an extra snack every day).
Being able to eat cheese in large quanitities is how he got me to do this diet.
posted by larthegreat at 10:09 AM on September 12, 2013
giving up milk, cream cheese, and soft cheeses saw pounds and inches come off. (this was in addition to the low carb thing, i do more of a paleo thing.)
This worked for me also (paleo, no dairy). But people are different.
posted by sweetkid at 10:10 AM on September 12, 2013
This worked for me also (paleo, no dairy). But people are different.
posted by sweetkid at 10:10 AM on September 12, 2013
Best answer: Are you in ketosis? For most people, the carb cravings stop and the decreased appetite start when they go into ketosis. You can buy test strips at any pharmacy, or you can order them from Amazon (be sure and get Ketostix brand, the generic kind I ordered were useless after a few weeks.)
posted by TungstenChef at 10:11 AM on September 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by TungstenChef at 10:11 AM on September 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
You don't count calories when you're doing a low-carb diet, that isn't relevant.
Are you aiming for ketosis and have you tested your urine daily?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:12 AM on September 12, 2013
Are you aiming for ketosis and have you tested your urine daily?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:12 AM on September 12, 2013
Have you been to a doctor and had a physical with bloodwork? The fact that you've always been ravenous suggests to me you might have more going on than meets the eye (e.g. thyroid).
posted by telegraph at 10:14 AM on September 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 10:14 AM on September 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
I agree with telegraph. Appetite suppression is one of the best parts about a low carb diet, so the fact that you're not seeing it.. maybe something else is going on.
How often are you having the rum? What if you cut that out?
posted by getawaysticks at 10:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
How often are you having the rum? What if you cut that out?
posted by getawaysticks at 10:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I guess I'm mostly just frustrated by BF shedding weight before my eyes, eating the same exact thing (we eat breakfast and dinner together, and carry the same lunch(his bigger), with him also eating an extra snack every day).
Does your boyfriend weigh more than you (and/or have a higher activity level). If so, then his calories burned will be greater than yours. If so, you could eat the same and he might lose weight and you might gain weight.
posted by Jahaza at 10:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Does your boyfriend weigh more than you (and/or have a higher activity level). If so, then his calories burned will be greater than yours. If so, you could eat the same and he might lose weight and you might gain weight.
posted by Jahaza at 10:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
You don't count calories when you're doing a low-carb diet, that isn't relevant.
I'm on a low carb diet (doctor's orders). I lost a little weight when I first went on it, but I've lost a lot more since I started counting calories in addition to eating low carb.
posted by Jahaza at 10:20 AM on September 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm on a low carb diet (doctor's orders). I lost a little weight when I first went on it, but I've lost a lot more since I started counting calories in addition to eating low carb.
posted by Jahaza at 10:20 AM on September 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
I also feel like people are so individual in terms of caloric and nutrient needs. I don't really like carbs, but my body CRAVES large amounts of protein to even maintain weight. Trial and error. Maybe no carbs doesn't work for you.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on September 12, 2013
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on September 12, 2013
Best answer: As others said, are you in ketosis?
You may need more carbs, closer to 50 but as complex as possible. You may need more water (I do not move the scale if I'm not getting over 40oz/day for several days straight, that's just my law, apparently). Maybe have beer one night a week, add a dark chocolate snack to your day.
But if you're a size 10 at 5'9, you don't have that much weight to lose. I'm 5'10 and my goal weight is 180 (and that's a 14ish 16 on me, or at least it was 10 years ago). I'm going to guess your boyfriend has more to lose? You would have to cut calories to get down much more than that, and you may need to look to sculpting/weightlifting to look much smaller or get down a size.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on September 12, 2013
You may need more carbs, closer to 50 but as complex as possible. You may need more water (I do not move the scale if I'm not getting over 40oz/day for several days straight, that's just my law, apparently). Maybe have beer one night a week, add a dark chocolate snack to your day.
But if you're a size 10 at 5'9, you don't have that much weight to lose. I'm 5'10 and my goal weight is 180 (and that's a 14ish 16 on me, or at least it was 10 years ago). I'm going to guess your boyfriend has more to lose? You would have to cut calories to get down much more than that, and you may need to look to sculpting/weightlifting to look much smaller or get down a size.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on September 12, 2013
Do you track your macros? That is, the gram amounts of fat/protein/carbs?
One thing I noticed and isn't necessarily called out - it's not just about low-carb or low-sugar. The main difference between Atkins and ketosis is that Atkins is high-protein/mod-fat/low-carb where keto is high-fat/low-carb/med-protein. Protein can be converted by the body into glucose, which would also apply to the protein in your muscles (catabolism), so the idea is to eat a bunch of healthy fats to offset that.
I had my best results when I ate in excess of 1 gram fat per gram protein. This meant a lot of cheeses, oils, full-fat salad dressing, butter, pepperoni/salami, etc.
Have you been hungry a lot? If you're not eating to satiety, that can often be caused by insufficient fat intake.
Lastly, I recommend the female keto subreddit.
posted by bookdragoness at 10:58 AM on September 12, 2013
One thing I noticed and isn't necessarily called out - it's not just about low-carb or low-sugar. The main difference between Atkins and ketosis is that Atkins is high-protein/mod-fat/low-carb where keto is high-fat/low-carb/med-protein. Protein can be converted by the body into glucose, which would also apply to the protein in your muscles (catabolism), so the idea is to eat a bunch of healthy fats to offset that.
I had my best results when I ate in excess of 1 gram fat per gram protein. This meant a lot of cheeses, oils, full-fat salad dressing, butter, pepperoni/salami, etc.
Have you been hungry a lot? If you're not eating to satiety, that can often be caused by insufficient fat intake.
Lastly, I recommend the female keto subreddit.
posted by bookdragoness at 10:58 AM on September 12, 2013
I'm 42 and I gain weight unless i NET under 1200 kcals.
You have track NET kcals and not GROSS kcals. How much or how little exercise dramatically influences how much you can eat without gaining weight.
Low carb diets and other food type restriction diets work temporarily for most people because they initially disrupt people's ability to get enough kcals. Once people figure out how to get calories within the constraints of food type related diets they tend to no longer lose weight and often put on what they lost.
If you want to lose weight you must eat fewer kcals NET than your maintenance level. There is simply no reliable easy way around doing the counting. What you put in your belly and why is entirely up to you be it paleo, neolithic or modern, south, east, north or west but you must pay attention to the laws of the physical universe if you want real results.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on September 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
You have track NET kcals and not GROSS kcals. How much or how little exercise dramatically influences how much you can eat without gaining weight.
Low carb diets and other food type restriction diets work temporarily for most people because they initially disrupt people's ability to get enough kcals. Once people figure out how to get calories within the constraints of food type related diets they tend to no longer lose weight and often put on what they lost.
If you want to lose weight you must eat fewer kcals NET than your maintenance level. There is simply no reliable easy way around doing the counting. What you put in your belly and why is entirely up to you be it paleo, neolithic or modern, south, east, north or west but you must pay attention to the laws of the physical universe if you want real results.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on September 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
I’m a female with the same BMI as you. With calorie restriction (I log everything I eat & drink via MyFitnessPal) + exercise, I can lose no more than half a pound a week. Your BF may have lost 15 pounds in the past 3.5 weeks (I’m guessing he’s overweight), but I’ve lost less than 2.
posted by editorgrrl at 11:08 AM on September 12, 2013
posted by editorgrrl at 11:08 AM on September 12, 2013
There is simply no reliable easy way around doing the counting.
However, MyFitnessPal is a fairly painless way to do the counting.
posted by Jahaza at 11:11 AM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
However, MyFitnessPal is a fairly painless way to do the counting.
posted by Jahaza at 11:11 AM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
In those glory days when I was your weight (I'm 5'9" on a good day, and thankfully, have a large frame), I was a bigger size (14 pants, 10-12 top and jacket).
And I found it very hard to continue to lose. It was very hard to get below 165. I had to get my Weight Watchers goal raised to 155, and that was difficult to reach and impossible to stay at. At my activity level back then in my athletic heyday, my body liked 165. Yours might be telling you something similar.
I agree with Joan Holloway. If you want, you might see some changes from lifting and yoga. I lost weight via diet and swimming, but lifting changed my body.
posted by jgirl at 11:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
And I found it very hard to continue to lose. It was very hard to get below 165. I had to get my Weight Watchers goal raised to 155, and that was difficult to reach and impossible to stay at. At my activity level back then in my athletic heyday, my body liked 165. Yours might be telling you something similar.
I agree with Joan Holloway. If you want, you might see some changes from lifting and yoga. I lost weight via diet and swimming, but lifting changed my body.
posted by jgirl at 11:18 AM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I agree with bookdragoness almost completely. Eating high fat and moderate protein is the key to success.
The only thing I would change is to recommend the unisex /r/keto over the girly one. Much more science and people who care about research and data than /r/xxketo which seems to be a lot of silly girls who just want to know the absolute minimum they can do to achieve the holy thigh gap.
posted by bink at 11:23 AM on September 12, 2013
The only thing I would change is to recommend the unisex /r/keto over the girly one. Much more science and people who care about research and data than /r/xxketo which seems to be a lot of silly girls who just want to know the absolute minimum they can do to achieve the holy thigh gap.
posted by bink at 11:23 AM on September 12, 2013
Response by poster: So BF isn't overweight at all, but was getting a bit softer than he likes to be; he basically went from like average college kid weight to slim yuppy weight in under a month. He'll probably hit hipster physique in the next week or two at the rate he's going.
I haven't bought the ketosis strips, but will look into that tonight, and will report back if my body is actually hitting ketosis. and I've heard that cutting out dairy is amazing for many women- I've considered it, but figured doing low-no carb was intense enough as it is, no need to give up cheese AND beer. I'll look into cutting back my cheese intake, maybe that will do the trick.
FWIW in HS I was 140-150 (size 4) and I was a little too thin- currently I'm aiming to bring my average weight from 175ish to just below 170ish. I don't think I need to lose weight to look better, it's mostly just loosing sheer mass so that my knees don't ache as much. If this wasn't about the joint pain, I wouldn't be bothering to even try dieting. (I can predict thunderstorms with frightening accuracy these days)
Thanks for all the resources so far, I'm generally wary of redit, but definitely take a look at linked threads.
SOOO MUCH THREADSITTING, SORRY!
posted by larthegreat at 11:26 AM on September 12, 2013
I haven't bought the ketosis strips, but will look into that tonight, and will report back if my body is actually hitting ketosis. and I've heard that cutting out dairy is amazing for many women- I've considered it, but figured doing low-no carb was intense enough as it is, no need to give up cheese AND beer. I'll look into cutting back my cheese intake, maybe that will do the trick.
FWIW in HS I was 140-150 (size 4) and I was a little too thin- currently I'm aiming to bring my average weight from 175ish to just below 170ish. I don't think I need to lose weight to look better, it's mostly just loosing sheer mass so that my knees don't ache as much. If this wasn't about the joint pain, I wouldn't be bothering to even try dieting. (I can predict thunderstorms with frightening accuracy these days)
Thanks for all the resources so far, I'm generally wary of redit, but definitely take a look at linked threads.
SOOO MUCH THREADSITTING, SORRY!
posted by larthegreat at 11:26 AM on September 12, 2013
Best answer: Did an orthopedist tell you that losing five pounds would make your knees stop hurting?
Losing five pounds isn't likely to make your knees stop hurting. If you haven't already, I think you need to consult an orthopedist for the pain in your knees and get a real diagnosis. It could be that you have an injury or arthritis or something else that has almost nothing to do with your weight, and the running may be making it worse.
It sounds as though you're stressing out about the fact that your perfectly healthy body doesn't want to drop weight, even though you're at a pretty ideal weight for your body. It's natural for a body not to want to give up fat or muscle mass that is healthy for your body, and you're eating way, way fewer calories than your body needs (a 5'10" person with an active lifestyle needs way more than 1450 calories a day to fuel your activities). I think that you need to separate the problems with your knees from any desire to lose weight that your body doesn't want to lose.
posted by decathecting at 11:54 AM on September 12, 2013 [14 favorites]
Losing five pounds isn't likely to make your knees stop hurting. If you haven't already, I think you need to consult an orthopedist for the pain in your knees and get a real diagnosis. It could be that you have an injury or arthritis or something else that has almost nothing to do with your weight, and the running may be making it worse.
It sounds as though you're stressing out about the fact that your perfectly healthy body doesn't want to drop weight, even though you're at a pretty ideal weight for your body. It's natural for a body not to want to give up fat or muscle mass that is healthy for your body, and you're eating way, way fewer calories than your body needs (a 5'10" person with an active lifestyle needs way more than 1450 calories a day to fuel your activities). I think that you need to separate the problems with your knees from any desire to lose weight that your body doesn't want to lose.
posted by decathecting at 11:54 AM on September 12, 2013 [14 favorites]
When I cut carbs substantially, I lost weight pretty slowly -- but it still ended up being a 16-pound reduction at the end of a year. And I've kept it off for three years. My knee pain got noticeably better after I started doing exercises to strengthen thigh muscles and help pull the kneecap back into line; once my knees felt better, I was able to get more physical activity without actually working out.
I suggest that you keep eating the way you are now until it feels normal -- a few weeks? Then try smaller portions, but reduce portion size gradually. Then put your mind to spending less time sitting. Then maybe add some more activity. You want a plan you can stick with indefinitely.
And you really have to try not to compare your weight loss with your boyfriend's! My husband has lost 12 pounds with little effort in the past 2 months. It would be sickening if I gave it too much thought.
posted by wryly at 12:05 PM on September 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I suggest that you keep eating the way you are now until it feels normal -- a few weeks? Then try smaller portions, but reduce portion size gradually. Then put your mind to spending less time sitting. Then maybe add some more activity. You want a plan you can stick with indefinitely.
And you really have to try not to compare your weight loss with your boyfriend's! My husband has lost 12 pounds with little effort in the past 2 months. It would be sickening if I gave it too much thought.
posted by wryly at 12:05 PM on September 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
In terms of weight loss, calorie deficit is the only thing that matters. WHAT you eat is immaterial--you could eat only twinkies and McDonald's Filet o' Fish and lose weight as long as you are in deficit. For health reasons it's obviously better to eat balanced meals and hit up all the appropriate nutrition categories, but at the end of the day, it's all about the deficit.
posted by xyzzy at 1:02 PM on September 12, 2013
posted by xyzzy at 1:02 PM on September 12, 2013
Best answer: Low carbing household here. 3.5 weeks is too short. You'll see results, but you need to keep at it for longer.
[fiber: unless you are stopped up, never worry. Things got actually easier for me when I stopped eating home made bread and brown rice and muesli and all those other gut-scratching things. Even here: trial and error]
posted by Namlit at 1:17 PM on September 12, 2013
[fiber: unless you are stopped up, never worry. Things got actually easier for me when I stopped eating home made bread and brown rice and muesli and all those other gut-scratching things. Even here: trial and error]
posted by Namlit at 1:17 PM on September 12, 2013
If you haven't been there, I recommend the forums of Low Carb Friends. I've been there since the beginning of my journey (July 2011) and have found the people there helpful and supportive. Are you following a specific plan?
Just my thoughts: It may be that you need to exercise less (it can be counterproductive at the beginning), consider adding some coconut oil to help spur ketosis (medium chain trigycerides are good), and lower your protein intake (more than about 30 g at once can cause insulin spikes). Alcohol doesn't throw you out of ketosis, but it does suspend fat burning, so it might help to not have any with food. Cream cheese is notorious for causing stalls, even if you can eat other forms of dairy, but the general limits for induction are 4 oz of cheese per day and about 1/4 cup of cream. Milk is too carby for most people, consider switching to cream or at least half and half. And no sugar at all. None. Weighing foods is very important to get accurate carb counts. Volume measurement is too subjective.
Also, consider doing a weekend or 5 day Fat Fast to jumpstart things. Some people are very resistant to ketosis and find that it helps.
I'm 5'5" and am down to about 168-170 lbs from about 230 lbs. At this point I basically have to eat meat, eggs and fat, without much veg (nutritional ketosis), and lower my calories a few days a week (JUDDD or calorie cycling) to lose weight. It isn't just calories, as I can eat like crazy (3000 calories and totally sedentary) and not gain as long as I stay under 50 g of carbs per day, but I've hit my strongest metabolic setpoint. This is weight I've lost and gained for over 20 years now. The less weight you have to lose, the harder it is to do.
But my knees felt better after only about 20 pounds, and my blood pressure went down. What I've gained in health is totally worth living low carb forever. The first couple months are hardest, and sometimes it takes that long for your body to get the idea. If you haven't lost anything (pounds or inches) after three months, you might want to get a bodyfat analysis done. You may not have as much fat to lose as you think.
Consider reading this and this for the hard core info about low carb. But the best info about day to day low carbing is in the forums and blogs of the people living it.
posted by monopas at 1:43 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just my thoughts: It may be that you need to exercise less (it can be counterproductive at the beginning), consider adding some coconut oil to help spur ketosis (medium chain trigycerides are good), and lower your protein intake (more than about 30 g at once can cause insulin spikes). Alcohol doesn't throw you out of ketosis, but it does suspend fat burning, so it might help to not have any with food. Cream cheese is notorious for causing stalls, even if you can eat other forms of dairy, but the general limits for induction are 4 oz of cheese per day and about 1/4 cup of cream. Milk is too carby for most people, consider switching to cream or at least half and half. And no sugar at all. None. Weighing foods is very important to get accurate carb counts. Volume measurement is too subjective.
Also, consider doing a weekend or 5 day Fat Fast to jumpstart things. Some people are very resistant to ketosis and find that it helps.
I'm 5'5" and am down to about 168-170 lbs from about 230 lbs. At this point I basically have to eat meat, eggs and fat, without much veg (nutritional ketosis), and lower my calories a few days a week (JUDDD or calorie cycling) to lose weight. It isn't just calories, as I can eat like crazy (3000 calories and totally sedentary) and not gain as long as I stay under 50 g of carbs per day, but I've hit my strongest metabolic setpoint. This is weight I've lost and gained for over 20 years now. The less weight you have to lose, the harder it is to do.
But my knees felt better after only about 20 pounds, and my blood pressure went down. What I've gained in health is totally worth living low carb forever. The first couple months are hardest, and sometimes it takes that long for your body to get the idea. If you haven't lost anything (pounds or inches) after three months, you might want to get a bodyfat analysis done. You may not have as much fat to lose as you think.
Consider reading this and this for the hard core info about low carb. But the best info about day to day low carbing is in the forums and blogs of the people living it.
posted by monopas at 1:43 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Second/Third-ing fiber. Dairy leads to bloat, which leads to water weight, which you can drop using fiber (or at least that's what worked for me). It'll also help you feel full, and keep you full for longer. I don't know how you could work it in to a low-carb diet though...?
Also, about your knee pain -- when I was in my early twenties, I developed joint pain in my knees. I'd always been very active and in good shape (strength exercises, as opposed to endurance, came especially easy to me) and thought the joint troubles might be a result of the ten pounds or so I gained during that time. According to the PT, the problem was actually that my thigh muscles were very strong, to the point that they were pulling my kneecap out of alignment and otherwise screwing with my knee joints. Could a similar issue be going on with you? Even if the problem really is that you're carrying too much weight (though, for what it's worth, that seems unlikely to me based on your height/size), a session with a physical therapist could be helpful in figuring out how to protect your joints while exercising or to make them stronger/more flexible.
posted by rue72 at 1:47 PM on September 12, 2013
Also, about your knee pain -- when I was in my early twenties, I developed joint pain in my knees. I'd always been very active and in good shape (strength exercises, as opposed to endurance, came especially easy to me) and thought the joint troubles might be a result of the ten pounds or so I gained during that time. According to the PT, the problem was actually that my thigh muscles were very strong, to the point that they were pulling my kneecap out of alignment and otherwise screwing with my knee joints. Could a similar issue be going on with you? Even if the problem really is that you're carrying too much weight (though, for what it's worth, that seems unlikely to me based on your height/size), a session with a physical therapist could be helpful in figuring out how to protect your joints while exercising or to make them stronger/more flexible.
posted by rue72 at 1:47 PM on September 12, 2013
When I did low carb, the weight just melted away. You will lose it too...
I would eliminate the white sauce, dairy, and the sugar.
Remember if you are on carb based diet, calories do not matter. If you eat 2,000 calories and it is low carb you will lose weight. If you eat 1,500 calories that includes things that affect your blood sugar like bread, rice, candy, pasta, sugar, soda, cereals, etc. your blood sugar will go up. Your body will release insulin to store the extra blood sugar in your fat cells (simplified description) and you gain weight. If your blood sugar does not go up, there isn't anything to store in your fat cells. You body has to get the (converted) sugars from your fat and you lose weight. It is basic biology (think biology class and not diet book).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin
Insulin is a peptide hormone, produced by beta cells of the pancreas, and is central to regulating carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the body. Insulin causes cells in the liver, skeletal muscles, and fat tissue to absorb glucose from the blood. In the liver and skeletal muscles, glucose is stored as glycogen, and in fat cells (adipocytes) it is stored as triglycerides.
posted by Leenie at 1:50 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would eliminate the white sauce, dairy, and the sugar.
Remember if you are on carb based diet, calories do not matter. If you eat 2,000 calories and it is low carb you will lose weight. If you eat 1,500 calories that includes things that affect your blood sugar like bread, rice, candy, pasta, sugar, soda, cereals, etc. your blood sugar will go up. Your body will release insulin to store the extra blood sugar in your fat cells (simplified description) and you gain weight. If your blood sugar does not go up, there isn't anything to store in your fat cells. You body has to get the (converted) sugars from your fat and you lose weight. It is basic biology (think biology class and not diet book).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin
Insulin is a peptide hormone, produced by beta cells of the pancreas, and is central to regulating carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the body. Insulin causes cells in the liver, skeletal muscles, and fat tissue to absorb glucose from the blood. In the liver and skeletal muscles, glucose is stored as glycogen, and in fat cells (adipocytes) it is stored as triglycerides.
posted by Leenie at 1:50 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Water weight.
Your boyfriend lost 15 pounds. Probably 6-7 of those pounds were water that was previously bound to glycogen in his body. When you don't eat carbs your body uses up these glycogen stores and this water goes away. His actual fat loss is probably somewhere around 8 lbs. Still pretty good! When you're already lean like it sounds like he is, losing a small amount of weight can make a big difference in the way your clothes fit.
As a woman, your body water percentage is going to fluctuate over time, depending on your cycle amongst other things. You could very well have lost the same amount of body fat as your boyfriend but it's not showing up on the scale because your body is retaining water.
On a low carb diet you have to drink a lot more water than you would on a normal diet. Ironically, if you don't drink enough water, your body will start retaining it. So you should also look at your water consumption and make sure you're drinking enough.
Also, you don't mention what time of day you weigh yourself. You have to do it first thing in the morning, after using the bathroom. I weigh ~6 lbs. more in the middle of the day than I do first thing in the morning.
posted by hamsterdam at 3:59 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your boyfriend lost 15 pounds. Probably 6-7 of those pounds were water that was previously bound to glycogen in his body. When you don't eat carbs your body uses up these glycogen stores and this water goes away. His actual fat loss is probably somewhere around 8 lbs. Still pretty good! When you're already lean like it sounds like he is, losing a small amount of weight can make a big difference in the way your clothes fit.
As a woman, your body water percentage is going to fluctuate over time, depending on your cycle amongst other things. You could very well have lost the same amount of body fat as your boyfriend but it's not showing up on the scale because your body is retaining water.
On a low carb diet you have to drink a lot more water than you would on a normal diet. Ironically, if you don't drink enough water, your body will start retaining it. So you should also look at your water consumption and make sure you're drinking enough.
Also, you don't mention what time of day you weigh yourself. You have to do it first thing in the morning, after using the bathroom. I weigh ~6 lbs. more in the middle of the day than I do first thing in the morning.
posted by hamsterdam at 3:59 PM on September 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
In theory you don't have to count calories on a low-carb diet. This is because for many people they feel so full eating more fat and protein that they end up eating less. Other people, they simply substitute the calories they got from carbs with calories from protein and fat. I think low-carb diets are a lot easier to execute and maintain than low-fat diets, but you still need to maintain a deficit.
When you estimate calories, are you eyeballing your food size? Do you type "spaghetti dinner" into MyPlate or FitDay or whatever and pick whatever comes up? Or do you measure out every ingredient on a scale and calculate the calorie content of your portions accordingly? Unless you're doing the latter--putting everything on a food scale--you really cannot be sure of how much you're eating. There are plenty of studies that indicate over-fat people underestimate their calories and under-fat people overestimate them. So make sure you're not one of those people.
Finally: hamsterdam is right about the water weight. Presumably your boyfriend weighs more than you and has more muscle mass. This means he is retaining more water in his muscles because it's bound up in his glycogen stores. When glycogen is depleted during a low-carb diet you drop water weight. This isn't to say he hasn't lost fat, but the 15lbs includes water, too.
posted by Anonymous at 5:58 PM on September 12, 2013
When you estimate calories, are you eyeballing your food size? Do you type "spaghetti dinner" into MyPlate or FitDay or whatever and pick whatever comes up? Or do you measure out every ingredient on a scale and calculate the calorie content of your portions accordingly? Unless you're doing the latter--putting everything on a food scale--you really cannot be sure of how much you're eating. There are plenty of studies that indicate over-fat people underestimate their calories and under-fat people overestimate them. So make sure you're not one of those people.
Finally: hamsterdam is right about the water weight. Presumably your boyfriend weighs more than you and has more muscle mass. This means he is retaining more water in his muscles because it's bound up in his glycogen stores. When glycogen is depleted during a low-carb diet you drop water weight. This isn't to say he hasn't lost fat, but the 15lbs includes water, too.
posted by Anonymous at 5:58 PM on September 12, 2013
Best answer: I agree with those that recommend another doctor visit, and with a specialist if the previous doctor was a GP. I feel like GPs so frequently and lazily blame weight when even a very mildly overweight patient complains of any ailment. I mean, losing weight would probably also help thin/normal bmi people with knee problems experience less pain -- that doesn't necessarily address the cause of the pain though, does it?
I think you should start a weight lifting routine sooner rather than later, though only with the guidance and approval of a Physical Therapist or similar. I am no expert, but from what I have read, strengthening the muscles around the knees can greatly improve general knee function. I have been working through The New Rules of Lifting for Women and very highly recommend it. The program particularly focuses on strengthening the muscles on the back of your legs, as (according to the book, anyway) women's leg muscles are frequently much better developed in the front than in the back. Perhaps strengthening those back leg muscles (as well as all the other muscles you will work) will do your knees some good.
As for the lack of weight loss, I think you are pushing your body beyond where it wants to go. If you are not losing weight at your stated calorie level, I can't see how you could lose without getting into some dangerous territory. And your comment that you were "too thin" in high school makes me wonder if you have had some (perhaps subclinical) eating problems in the past; if that is true of your experience, you especially do not want to restrict below a healthy amount. Also, my sense of the low-carb diet is not that it necessarily makes everyone Hollywood thin, but that it is supposed to get you to your healthy weight. I think you are already there, and that your knee pain can be dealt with in a better way than this.
posted by imalaowai at 7:23 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you should start a weight lifting routine sooner rather than later, though only with the guidance and approval of a Physical Therapist or similar. I am no expert, but from what I have read, strengthening the muscles around the knees can greatly improve general knee function. I have been working through The New Rules of Lifting for Women and very highly recommend it. The program particularly focuses on strengthening the muscles on the back of your legs, as (according to the book, anyway) women's leg muscles are frequently much better developed in the front than in the back. Perhaps strengthening those back leg muscles (as well as all the other muscles you will work) will do your knees some good.
As for the lack of weight loss, I think you are pushing your body beyond where it wants to go. If you are not losing weight at your stated calorie level, I can't see how you could lose without getting into some dangerous territory. And your comment that you were "too thin" in high school makes me wonder if you have had some (perhaps subclinical) eating problems in the past; if that is true of your experience, you especially do not want to restrict below a healthy amount. Also, my sense of the low-carb diet is not that it necessarily makes everyone Hollywood thin, but that it is supposed to get you to your healthy weight. I think you are already there, and that your knee pain can be dealt with in a better way than this.
posted by imalaowai at 7:23 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
as srboisvert said it is all about calories consumed (food) minus calories burned off (exercise). the total amount of calories are what make or break weight loss barring an untreated health issue. too many simple carbs are bad for you as is too much saturated fat. it is not an either/or but a bothand. hi saturated fat leads to breast & prostate cancer and other health problems. going on drastic short term diets is generally a bad idea as you have to make permanent changes in your eating & exercise habits to maintain long term results. one of the healthiest ways of eating is the mediterranean diet which is not a "diet" just a lifelong way of eating. it is good for weight-loss and very good for overall health. i particularly like this site which also covers the health benefits of asian diets.
posted by wildflower at 8:21 PM on September 12, 2013
posted by wildflower at 8:21 PM on September 12, 2013
So it's probably safe to assume I'm eating the same, to slightly less of the same amount of calories.
yeah, this is why you are not losing weight. here's a good article from discovery health: do high fat, low carb diets work?
posted by wildflower at 9:00 PM on September 12, 2013
yeah, this is why you are not losing weight. here's a good article from discovery health: do high fat, low carb diets work?
posted by wildflower at 9:00 PM on September 12, 2013
I think you should follow something like Atkins Induction to the letter. That includes the part about not counting calories. Eat when you're hungry. Keep the carbs under 20, eat your salad, and eat a lot of fat. The weight will come off.
posted by bink at 10:06 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bink at 10:06 PM on September 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am no expert, but from what I have read, strengthening the muscles around the knees can greatly improve general knee function.
Yes. I have patellar tracking disorder, a result of weak muscles. Losing weight will help, but it won't address the real problem.
Go to an orthopedist!
posted by jgirl at 4:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes. I have patellar tracking disorder, a result of weak muscles. Losing weight will help, but it won't address the real problem.
Go to an orthopedist!
posted by jgirl at 4:55 AM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: here's a good article from discovery health: do high fat, low carb diets work?
It's not a good article because it conflates high-protein, low-fat low-carb diets with medium-protein, high-fat low-carb diets. They are very, very different.
To larthegreat: I'm currently on keto, and have lost 21 lb. over about six weeks. It's understood that some of that is water weight, but I've also dropped a size in clothing and feel better, have become an early riser in the morning for the first time in over 30 years, etc. I got into the diet through the /r/keto subreddit; even if you think that reddit is a hive of scum and villainy (and much of it is), this subreddit is the repository of a huge amount of information and more than a little encouragement. Here's what I'd suggest:
1) Look at Keto in a Nutshell.
2) Then read the Keto FAQ for more--much more--info. There are many links to supporting scientific studies and whatnot, a chart of the more commonly used oils and fats and their compositions, etc. This is not something that you need to memorize, it's just justifying some of the recommendations.
3) Look into MyFitnessPal or a similar site/app. One of the reasons why MFP is recommended specifically is that it can be modified (via scripts or plugins to your browser) to track things like net carbs for keto. The reason why you want to track carbs is that you want to take in less than 20 grams of dietary carbs (that's not counting fiber) per day. I suspect that that's possibly where you're having problems; it is really easy to go over that, without deliberately including sugar or starch in your diet. Milk, for example, has milk sugar, which is why a lot of people will use heavy cream wherever/whenever they'd use milk or even half-and-half. One of the nice things about MFP is that many foods already have the nutritional info entered, although the usual caveats about crowdsourced info apply. (The smartphone app allows you to scan barcodes of prepackaged food.)
4) Once you start, you'll hit the "keto flu" period where your body is using up its stores of glycogen and eventually converts to burning fat (ketosis). It's not fun, but not as bad as the actual flu, and you can help alleviate it by making sure that you're keeping your body's supplies of electrolytes up (think sugar-free sports drink).
5) Once you're pretty sure that your metabolism is keto-adapted, use this calculator to figure out your macronutrient goals.
6) Check out other parts of the /r/keto subreddit; there are recipes for non-carb bread and desserts that will make your mouth water.
Good luck!
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:03 PM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not a good article because it conflates high-protein, low-fat low-carb diets with medium-protein, high-fat low-carb diets. They are very, very different.
To larthegreat: I'm currently on keto, and have lost 21 lb. over about six weeks. It's understood that some of that is water weight, but I've also dropped a size in clothing and feel better, have become an early riser in the morning for the first time in over 30 years, etc. I got into the diet through the /r/keto subreddit; even if you think that reddit is a hive of scum and villainy (and much of it is), this subreddit is the repository of a huge amount of information and more than a little encouragement. Here's what I'd suggest:
1) Look at Keto in a Nutshell.
2) Then read the Keto FAQ for more--much more--info. There are many links to supporting scientific studies and whatnot, a chart of the more commonly used oils and fats and their compositions, etc. This is not something that you need to memorize, it's just justifying some of the recommendations.
3) Look into MyFitnessPal or a similar site/app. One of the reasons why MFP is recommended specifically is that it can be modified (via scripts or plugins to your browser) to track things like net carbs for keto. The reason why you want to track carbs is that you want to take in less than 20 grams of dietary carbs (that's not counting fiber) per day. I suspect that that's possibly where you're having problems; it is really easy to go over that, without deliberately including sugar or starch in your diet. Milk, for example, has milk sugar, which is why a lot of people will use heavy cream wherever/whenever they'd use milk or even half-and-half. One of the nice things about MFP is that many foods already have the nutritional info entered, although the usual caveats about crowdsourced info apply. (The smartphone app allows you to scan barcodes of prepackaged food.)
4) Once you start, you'll hit the "keto flu" period where your body is using up its stores of glycogen and eventually converts to burning fat (ketosis). It's not fun, but not as bad as the actual flu, and you can help alleviate it by making sure that you're keeping your body's supplies of electrolytes up (think sugar-free sports drink).
5) Once you're pretty sure that your metabolism is keto-adapted, use this calculator to figure out your macronutrient goals.
6) Check out other parts of the /r/keto subreddit; there are recipes for non-carb bread and desserts that will make your mouth water.
Good luck!
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:03 PM on September 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: ok, so I used the ketostix for the past 4 days, and I'm barely hitting ketosis, while bf is at max- that probably explains the different results we're getting (as does the water weight explanations given- thanks for the reassurance on that). He definitely hit a "keto flu"/"keto crash" thing- but I've just been plodding along as usual, hungry as can be.
As to the knee stuff- it's something that keeps getting mentioned by my GP (he always comments that I appear average, but BMI is on the high side and bloodwork while normal, could probably stand a few less pizza and beer) and given that I do abuse my knees/have already had a bunch of injuries, I figured I'd finally give it a go. Maybe I'll ask for a script to see a Physical Therapist next time, but in general I'm pretty good with the usual range of knee stabilizer strengthening stuff. Its probably worth getting a second opinon anyways I guess.
When I count calories- I'm usually going by volume- and use measuring cups to dole out our lunches (ie 1c broccoli), or I'm doing things like counting up all the ingredients (ie 3lb chicken, 3 tbsp olive oil, 1c cream etc, then dividing the total by how many meals we got out of it per person). Given that we don't eat much processed stuff, that's about as accurate as I've ever been able to get it with out crossing over into neurotic. With respect to milk, I barely use it, and we switched to just heavy cream about 2 weeks ago.
Also thanks to you guys, I'll stick with this for another 3-4 weeks, but I'm going to up the fat I'm eating, while cutting back on the cream cheese and other delicious soft cheese (Oh my raclette!). If I haven't seen any results after 2 months of diet, then I think it might be safe to say that I am doing it wrong. and then I will eat the delicious macaroni cheeses and have all the beer and then some cake and call it day.
Aside, I definitely haven't had a food disorder- in HS I was running cross country, growing 10 inches and skiing competitively, definitely did not restrict calories even latently. Seriously loled at that one, the amount of food I would eat was awe inspiring, and thanks to my mom it was usually amazing home cooked food.
posted by larthegreat at 8:03 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
As to the knee stuff- it's something that keeps getting mentioned by my GP (he always comments that I appear average, but BMI is on the high side and bloodwork while normal, could probably stand a few less pizza and beer) and given that I do abuse my knees/have already had a bunch of injuries, I figured I'd finally give it a go. Maybe I'll ask for a script to see a Physical Therapist next time, but in general I'm pretty good with the usual range of knee stabilizer strengthening stuff. Its probably worth getting a second opinon anyways I guess.
When I count calories- I'm usually going by volume- and use measuring cups to dole out our lunches (ie 1c broccoli), or I'm doing things like counting up all the ingredients (ie 3lb chicken, 3 tbsp olive oil, 1c cream etc, then dividing the total by how many meals we got out of it per person). Given that we don't eat much processed stuff, that's about as accurate as I've ever been able to get it with out crossing over into neurotic. With respect to milk, I barely use it, and we switched to just heavy cream about 2 weeks ago.
Also thanks to you guys, I'll stick with this for another 3-4 weeks, but I'm going to up the fat I'm eating, while cutting back on the cream cheese and other delicious soft cheese (Oh my raclette!). If I haven't seen any results after 2 months of diet, then I think it might be safe to say that I am doing it wrong. and then I will eat the delicious macaroni cheeses and have all the beer and then some cake and call it day.
Aside, I definitely haven't had a food disorder- in HS I was running cross country, growing 10 inches and skiing competitively, definitely did not restrict calories even latently. Seriously loled at that one, the amount of food I would eat was awe inspiring, and thanks to my mom it was usually amazing home cooked food.
posted by larthegreat at 8:03 AM on September 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ha, glad to make you lol and that you were a very healthy high school eater!
posted by imalaowai at 1:18 PM on September 17, 2013
posted by imalaowai at 1:18 PM on September 17, 2013
Response by poster: Well into two months on this diet, and I have yet to more than 5lb(on a running average). measurments wise, I've noticed pants/clothing are a tiny bit looser, and have lost just under an inch on my waist. I hit Ketosis regularly according to the strips, but it looks like my body has it's baseline and is unhappy to budge much.
I have noticed that now that I have absolutedly no sugar in my diet, that weird things taste really sweet, like the tomatopaste put into a chile tastes like sugar.
I'll probably keep relatively low carb, since it's probably best to not be eating bread, pasta, rice and beer ALL the time; but as I am relatively active and tend to eat well, it doesn't seem to have the dramatic effects on me that the rest of the internet sees.
not gonna lie, very excited to drink beer again
posted by larthegreat at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have noticed that now that I have absolutedly no sugar in my diet, that weird things taste really sweet, like the tomatopaste put into a chile tastes like sugar.
I'll probably keep relatively low carb, since it's probably best to not be eating bread, pasta, rice and beer ALL the time; but as I am relatively active and tend to eat well, it doesn't seem to have the dramatic effects on me that the rest of the internet sees.
not gonna lie, very excited to drink beer again
posted by larthegreat at 1:41 PM on October 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
current food day:
breakfast: 2eggs (either scrambled with milk) or fried, + 2-3 strips bacon
lunch: (550ml box for me, 700ml box for him)
1st week was taco chicken (with homemade mix, so no added sugar) + 1 c cauliflower
2nd week was spicy pulled pork(1/4th cup sugar per 12lb pork shoulder, so nothing crazy sweet there)+ 1 c broccoli
3rd week was stuffed chicken breasts (either stuffed with spinach+ricotta, or fried mushrooms+ bacon+ creamcheese) and then a cup of greenbeans
4th week is swedish meatballs made w/o breadcrumbs with a creamcheese sauce + alternating greenbeans and broccoli
dinner:
steak+ salad, chicken+ salad, chicken+ cauliflower mash (or other veggie)
stirfy (tofu, leftover pulled pork + piles of greens)
soup- miso, tofu, homemade broth, greens
snacks: cheese, kielbasa sausage (we snack more on weekends, when we tend to only eat 2 meals a day)
Previously, we stuck to lunches that were 1/3rd protein, 1/3rd starch and 1/3rd vegg, dinners featured potatoes, lentils, pasta, rice as well as protein/vegg. We've always home cooked pretty healthily
posted by larthegreat at 9:52 AM on September 12, 2013