Weird question--How to light up inside of violin/viola?
September 5, 2013 5:48 PM Subscribe
Saw a video where the gal played a violin and there was a light inside, somehow--you could see the F-holes glowing. You can see it towards the end of the video.
It wasn't CGI. My daughter plays the viola and thought that was really cool and wondered how she could do that and still make the light removable. Of course, it might alter the sound somewhat but she doesn't care as it wouldn't be permanent, (if it can be done at all.)
Anyone have any ideas how to temporarily make the inside of a violin/viola light up without viola surgery and still be able to reverse it?
Yeah, it's a weird question but doesn't hurt to ask.
Something battery-powered, not electric, would probably be better: no cord to worry about, and usually the battery-powered lights are cooler. Maybe stick-on, too, to hold it in position inside the viola.
posted by easily confused at 6:06 PM on September 5, 2013
posted by easily confused at 6:06 PM on September 5, 2013
I do not know how Lindsay Stirling did it (maybe magic?) but you could attempt something similar with 2 or 3 glowsticks (the kind that you snap to start them glowing, available from dollar stores around Halloween, also available in scuba dive shops).
Get them lighted and insert inside the violin, they last a very long time.
posted by lungtaworld at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2013
Get them lighted and insert inside the violin, they last a very long time.
posted by lungtaworld at 6:08 PM on September 5, 2013
I would not use a glow stick, they are very heavy. Look for LED lights, either battery-operated Xmas ones or maybe the kind that cyclists attach to bicycle spokes, those might work (plus they might blink which is cool). I would try to stick it with double-sided tape, using tweezers, right under the bridge.
But I'm having a hard time imagining that this won't make it sound like she's using a mute (or worse).
posted by epanalepsis at 6:30 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
But I'm having a hard time imagining that this won't make it sound like she's using a mute (or worse).
posted by epanalepsis at 6:30 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
On second thought, maybe suspending them on a short length of fishing line tied to the bridge would be less acoustically obtrusive.
also, send me a PM if you test this, I totally want to try it myself.
posted by epanalepsis at 6:33 PM on September 5, 2013
also, send me a PM if you test this, I totally want to try it myself.
posted by epanalepsis at 6:33 PM on September 5, 2013
Tiny LED lights. I'm thinking something sort of like those that come in party favors for example I've been given plastic rings with LEDs in them at weddings.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 6:36 PM on September 5, 2013
posted by CrazyLemonade at 6:36 PM on September 5, 2013
LED Throwies would work pretty well, and the magnet would probably make it easier to fish out of the violin afterwards. Probably get a bit of a rattle in there, though.
posted by jenkinsEar at 7:26 PM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jenkinsEar at 7:26 PM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Glow stick bracelets work the same way as glow sticks, but are much smaller, lighter, and come in lots of yummy colors.
posted by mon-ma-tron at 8:12 PM on September 5, 2013
posted by mon-ma-tron at 8:12 PM on September 5, 2013
She could shove some EL wire in there (Link goes to the first product Google found, but there are lots of companies that sell it).
posted by Weeping_angel at 8:23 PM on September 5, 2013
posted by Weeping_angel at 8:23 PM on September 5, 2013
EL wire is quite dim and must be viewed directly unless you're in good darkness. It's really not suitable as secondary lighting, and the cheap EL drivers kick out a magnetostrictive whine that may bother the musician, if not the audience.
Glow sticks and single-color LEDs may contribute a useful glow, if the ambient light is low enough, but I would advocate a throwie-style solution using a color-changing LED (which is actually R+G+B+controller in a tiny package) or several. They're a few cents each, so go nuts. However, depending on the controller's pattern, the effect may be subtle, obnoxious, or anywhere in between. I hate the common fade-then-flash pattern.
I'm having trouble finding the sweet-looking slow-fade LEDs online right now -- most sellers offer several patterns but it takes a few rounds of Google Translate and a MOQ of 1000 pcs to get the pattern you want. So, no link. However, I have several hundred spares (hah!) and would be happy to lick a stamp. For free. Drop me a PM.
Bonus: The wood might be thin enough that a standard magnetic throwie could be used with a companion magnet outside the body, for easy attachment and positioning with no permanent damage.
posted by Myself at 8:28 AM on September 6, 2013
Glow sticks and single-color LEDs may contribute a useful glow, if the ambient light is low enough, but I would advocate a throwie-style solution using a color-changing LED (which is actually R+G+B+controller in a tiny package) or several. They're a few cents each, so go nuts. However, depending on the controller's pattern, the effect may be subtle, obnoxious, or anywhere in between. I hate the common fade-then-flash pattern.
I'm having trouble finding the sweet-looking slow-fade LEDs online right now -- most sellers offer several patterns but it takes a few rounds of Google Translate and a MOQ of 1000 pcs to get the pattern you want. So, no link. However, I have several hundred spares (hah!) and would be happy to lick a stamp. For free. Drop me a PM.
Bonus: The wood might be thin enough that a standard magnetic throwie could be used with a companion magnet outside the body, for easy attachment and positioning with no permanent damage.
posted by Myself at 8:28 AM on September 6, 2013
Just find a place to scotch tape a battery or 3 (watch coin cells, or AA or AAA's) and you're good, the LED and resistor weigh very little compared to the battteries. Parts list: batteries, LED, a resistor, a glue gun or soldering iron, and some scotch tape (about $5 in parts, under $1 in quantity). How long does it need to be powered?
LED Throwies
Radio Shack LEDs
You may need a resistor to keep from overheating and burning out the LED. That gets a little complicated, formula can be found many places, including Instructables' LEDs for Beginners
And here's the needed data from the 1st LED on the Radio Shack page:
FW current 25mA; FW supply 3.3 (typical), 3.6V (maximum)
If you wanted to get fancy and have the light change with the music, you could program a BlinkM, about $15.00, and much more programming know-how involved: BlinkM
And let me also mention this poster from the Berlin Philharmonic (only marginally related, but really cool).
A 2nd of the same series
posted by at at 11:45 PM on September 6, 2013
LED Throwies
Radio Shack LEDs
You may need a resistor to keep from overheating and burning out the LED. That gets a little complicated, formula can be found many places, including Instructables' LEDs for Beginners
And here's the needed data from the 1st LED on the Radio Shack page:
FW current 25mA; FW supply 3.3 (typical), 3.6V (maximum)
If you wanted to get fancy and have the light change with the music, you could program a BlinkM, about $15.00, and much more programming know-how involved: BlinkM
And let me also mention this poster from the Berlin Philharmonic (only marginally related, but really cool).
A 2nd of the same series
posted by at at 11:45 PM on September 6, 2013
Okay, current-limiting resistors.
At is right: LEDs are just diodes, and they do what diodes do: As soon as they're forward-biased (connected the right way around) above Vf (the forward voltage drop, which varies with the color), they conduct as well as possible. Without some resistance in the circuit, current goes sky-high, probably well above what the LED can handle. This means that if they're connected to a supply that's capable of burning them out, they will very quickly burn out.
Coin cells are not this supply. Your average CR2032 has quite a bit of internal resistance, roughly 20 ohms for short pulses, and for continuous drain the chemistry gets more involved and it gets worse, 30-40 ohms is a fair guess. There's a ton of detail in this paper.
That means it's capable of delivering about 100mA into a 0v dead short. However, if you put a fixed-voltage-drop device like an LED across it, the current is reduced according to the remaining drop. With a 1.7v red LED on a "3v" CR2032, the battery "sees" the remaining 1.3v, and delivers something like 30mA into it. That's over the typical 20mA spec but not dramatically so, and it sags after a moment as the battery gets winded. Higher Vf LEDs get correspondingly less current. Throwies work fine without external current-limiting resistors because they're abusing the battery's internal resistance.
If you're using AA's or AAA's, these have a much lower internal resistance, and a resistor is necessary. Size it according to At's instructions.
Curveball: The RGB color-changing LEDs aren't actually LEDs, they're little self-contained driver circuits which bring their own LEDs to the party. Since they have emitters of different colors (and thus different Vf), they perform their own current-limiting per color, too.
Most such parts are designed for a 5-volt supply, so if you connect 'em to a 3-volt battery, they're not quite as bright. Blue in particular suffers. But the effect is hard to notice unless you're side-by-side with one at proper drive voltage, or using an already-pretty-dead battery.
Throwies are terrible, horrible things from an electrical engineering perspective. You should never rely on a battery's internal resistance to protect anything, and running a battery at 20x its rated discharge, even if not dangerous (it is for larger batteries), is hugely inefficient and wasteful. Lithium coin cells are an atrociously expensive way to buy energy (only slightly worse than the also-hobbyist-loved 9-volt battery), and they're not even a high enough voltage to properly operate certain blue LEDs.
That being said, in this particular application, they work and work well. It's a matter of KISS practicality, and if the daughter decides to get more involved in electronics, she'll run face-first into Ohm's law in due time. For now, throwies in the viola should work great.
posted by Myself at 1:17 PM on September 7, 2013
At is right: LEDs are just diodes, and they do what diodes do: As soon as they're forward-biased (connected the right way around) above Vf (the forward voltage drop, which varies with the color), they conduct as well as possible. Without some resistance in the circuit, current goes sky-high, probably well above what the LED can handle. This means that if they're connected to a supply that's capable of burning them out, they will very quickly burn out.
Coin cells are not this supply. Your average CR2032 has quite a bit of internal resistance, roughly 20 ohms for short pulses, and for continuous drain the chemistry gets more involved and it gets worse, 30-40 ohms is a fair guess. There's a ton of detail in this paper.
That means it's capable of delivering about 100mA into a 0v dead short. However, if you put a fixed-voltage-drop device like an LED across it, the current is reduced according to the remaining drop. With a 1.7v red LED on a "3v" CR2032, the battery "sees" the remaining 1.3v, and delivers something like 30mA into it. That's over the typical 20mA spec but not dramatically so, and it sags after a moment as the battery gets winded. Higher Vf LEDs get correspondingly less current. Throwies work fine without external current-limiting resistors because they're abusing the battery's internal resistance.
If you're using AA's or AAA's, these have a much lower internal resistance, and a resistor is necessary. Size it according to At's instructions.
Curveball: The RGB color-changing LEDs aren't actually LEDs, they're little self-contained driver circuits which bring their own LEDs to the party. Since they have emitters of different colors (and thus different Vf), they perform their own current-limiting per color, too.
Most such parts are designed for a 5-volt supply, so if you connect 'em to a 3-volt battery, they're not quite as bright. Blue in particular suffers. But the effect is hard to notice unless you're side-by-side with one at proper drive voltage, or using an already-pretty-dead battery.
Throwies are terrible, horrible things from an electrical engineering perspective. You should never rely on a battery's internal resistance to protect anything, and running a battery at 20x its rated discharge, even if not dangerous (it is for larger batteries), is hugely inefficient and wasteful. Lithium coin cells are an atrociously expensive way to buy energy (only slightly worse than the also-hobbyist-loved 9-volt battery), and they're not even a high enough voltage to properly operate certain blue LEDs.
That being said, in this particular application, they work and work well. It's a matter of KISS practicality, and if the daughter decides to get more involved in electronics, she'll run face-first into Ohm's law in due time. For now, throwies in the viola should work great.
posted by Myself at 1:17 PM on September 7, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dawkins_7 at 6:06 PM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]