You pinkie swore!
August 31, 2013 2:39 PM   Subscribe

Looking for perspective about a breach of trust in my relationship, albeit on a teeny tiny scale. Am I making too much of this, or is a promise a promise?

To clarify, yes. We are grownups: 30's and 40's. Together for several years, lots of ups and downs as we got our act together early on, but quite amazingly stable and increasingly deep and sweet for the past 3+ years.

We moved to a new home a few years back. SO couldn't quit his smoking habit, but it was a no-brainer that the new place would be smoke-free. It was what we both wanted.

I discovered that he smoked inside the home, and I told him that it seemed pretty sneaky of him. I didn't smell the smoke, or anything, I just discovered evidence. No biggie-- We agreed it wouldn't happen again.

It did happen again.

I said, Well, here's the thing. If you get used to smoking indoors, then eventually it will smell like smoke indoors, and I'm not down with that. SO agreed, and promised he'd take it outside in the future.

Then, I discover he's smoked indoors again. This time I'm upset because trust! And, we have a big come to jesus about it. How, if for some reason he need, need, needs to renege on our agreement, he could at least fess up to it rather than getting "busted" like I'm his dorm mother. Trust, understanding, respect... blah blah blah... He makes a solemn promise to stop sneakily smoking cigs inside our home.

This all has been over the course of a few years. Well, our rebellious, middle-aged antagonist has been up to the same old same old. He's been discreet about smoking inside, and I haven't been suspicious or sleuthing around, so if he's smoked inside about once a month (his estimate), I've not known.

Now that I've become aware of the smoking, I feel shaken to the core! I won't go on and on about how much I dislike his shitty smoking habit-- The issue that is bugging me is the broken promise(s).

I'm saying, Smoke if you're going to. Stop effing lying to me. Don't make promises you can't keep. Don't do sneaky shit when, honestly, I don't care what you do. I just want honesty.

As I've felt unsettled, betrayed, and kind of ill for the past 24 hours, am I making too much of an adult breaking a promise? Do you think my description of SO's behavior paints him as untrustworthy, generally (yes, I'd like your opinion, internet!)? People in awesome, long-term relationships: do you guys BS each other when it comes to smaller issues?

I kind of look at the man, my SO, differently now. I'm asking you guys' advice because I tend toward extremes. I've been teetering between thoughts of packing up my whole entire life and starting over somewhere else, and kissing my SO's face until he feels loved enough to drop his lying-ass defenses-- !

Whatta ya think?
posted by little_dog_laughing to Human Relations (48 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: It seems reasonable to infer that he's possibly absolutely mortified about it, like, maybe to a level that makes reasonable conversation about it difficult. Possibly?

I don't think this is quite at a level where you need to be personally hurt, but I would be irritated. But there might be a bit of a disconnect on your end -- you are totally not okay with this, but he should tell you if he does this horrible thing, but... From the sounds of it, his confessing here will meet with upset. Sneaking will meet with upset, but not if you don't find out.

No, he's not being much of a grown-up about it. But bad habits are hard to be adult about sometimes; it's more pleasant to minimise and deny instead of copping to the bad habit and implementing harm reduction strategies...

If a cigarette a month indoors results in no measurable offence (except the dishonesty!), I think I would see if I could strike a deal with my presumably otherwise well-behaved partner where that luxury was on on a trial basis (if it led to escalation of indoor smoking and abuses of the system, re-negotiate). And he is otherwise well-behaved, right? This sounds crappy but if it is the sole objectionable behaviour, I don't think I would rush to "untrustworthy, generally." Sneaking smokes is just something that comes with smoking, unfortunately.
posted by kmennie at 2:51 PM on August 31, 2013 [2 favorites]


Best answer: I think it is an ongoing hard effort to be fully honest with my own beloved Bear. Being totally honest is extraordinarily tough, and often provokes confrontation. And living up to promises, especially when they concern addiction, is an even tougher proposition. I think the only reason I've been able to do this is pride -- I just can't allow myself to fail at this. He, however, has occasionally not told me all or not done as he promised. But it is important to him that I trust him, so he works at it and tries. Again, this is hard stuff.

So I don't actually think this is about you. I think it is about your partner's struggles with resisting nicotine -- and I for one have been there and know how hard that can be -- and preference not to make waves.

I'd suggest you do what you need to step back and feel calmer, then tell him you know and you're feeling upset about smoke inside the house. And also perhaps ask if you can be of any assistance as he deals with his addiction.

Realistically, it sounds as though he defaults sometimes to not telling you what he knows will upset you. Talk to him about whether he thinks he can overcome that. Try to be patient and know this is no easy thing.
posted by bearwife at 2:52 PM on August 31, 2013 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Do you think my description of SO's behavior paints him as untrustworthy, generally

Do you mean do I think that this indicates that he's likely to cheat on his taxes, embezzle from his employers, have an affair, and/or abandon you if you get cancer? Because he occasionally sneaks a cigarette inside, as opposed to outside? I mean, those are the sorts of things I associate with people who are "generally untrustworthy," and so unless there is an enormous amount of backstory you're not sharing, my feeling is no.

I mean, I totally understand why it's irritating that he doesn't consistently go outside to have his once-in-awhile smoke, but in no way do I think this gets anywhere close to "shaken to the core" territory where it's worth considering whether or not to end the relationship.

Perhaps he's feeling guilty about not being able to kick his habit completely; hell, perhaps sometimes he just feels like he wants to have his cigarette while sitting on the couch rather than standing on the porch. Instead of lecturing him, I would ask him -- in a spirit of genuine, open curiosity and with the intent to listen more than you speak -- why he thinks this is a pattern that continues, despite the agreement you felt you'd both made.
posted by scody at 3:00 PM on August 31, 2013 [18 favorites]


As a smoker, I understand why he does this. There really is no good excuse for doing it inside the house though. How about a compromise to avoid future issues? Get him an electronic cigarette for in the house. He can "smoke" without polluting the house. I recently got one to go on vacation with and I liked it so much I haven't had a real cigarette since.

Memail me if you'd like to know which company I chose to go with (no affiliation.)
posted by Requiax at 3:02 PM on August 31, 2013 [15 favorites]


The situations are not identical, but the comments in this earlier AskMe may be helpful.

Meanwhile, please don't feel like you need to minimize this issue (to yourself or to him) as being something "on a teeny tiny scale." What matters to you matters, and it's worthy of resolving in a way that makes you both feel more comfortable than your current status quo.
posted by argonauta at 3:03 PM on August 31, 2013 [2 favorites]


Have you asked him WHY he does it? Is he doing it for the thrill of sneakiness, for doing something which is against the rules? Because making it MORE against the rules isn't going to help. Figure out why, maybe together, and go from there.
posted by barnone at 3:06 PM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]


Well, our rebellious, middle-aged antagonist has been up to the same old same old

Oh, and I know that this is probably just how you're writing out the narrative here (and that's fine), but I would caution you to make sure that you don't frame it like this when speaking with him about it. Feeling condescended to or met with sarcasm isn't going to make him feel any more comfortable about being honest with you.
posted by scody at 3:07 PM on August 31, 2013 [9 favorites]


I think there are a few things at play here.

First of all, it sounds like he came clean and told you that he slipped up, which is all you say you actually wanted. If it doesn't smell, and you haven't noticed, then it sounds to me like this is more about the fact that he'd smoked at all, despite your assertion that you don't care about anything but the lying. A random smoke out the window once a month is probably not going to stink up your house long term. This doesn't sound to me like this is about the house...

If it is about the smoking, make it about that. The fact that he does it at all. If you don't feel comfortable drawing that line with him, then practice learning to live with it.

This is not something he is doing to you. It has nothing to do with you. He wants to smoke in his house once in a while and agreed not to in order to appease you, and sometimes he is weak and he sneaks one and covers it up.

Also, you say you asked him just not to lie to you about it, so he told you what was up, so he might feel like he walked into a trap if you go off on him for it.


edited because I fat fingered the preview button and posted instead. Hope this is coherent and helpful and not too blunt, usually I smooth my answers out for friendliness, my phone decided against that today...
posted by pazazygeek at 3:08 PM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]


It's an addiction. Addicts * lie **.

*often
**about their addictive behaviors
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:21 PM on August 31, 2013 [6 favorites]


Response by poster: Hold up, hold up. Awesome answers. I feel better already. Embezzlement, tax fraud, haha Scody, way to put things in perspective. And, good call I ought to shake the sarcasm.

If it makes any difference to you peeps, the SO smokes maybe a pack a day. He also works long hours, so a lot of his smoking is done elsewhere. When he and I are home, he smokes outside. When he's home alone, he still supposedly smokes outside.

I didn't set any rules about smoking. I'm not a big rule-setter.

He didn't fess up about smoking inside. I totally-by-accident busted him, and he couldn't deny it.

And, I didn't yell at him, or anything. It's all about the trust. Moving forward, I told him to do what he's gonna do. Smoke inside. He's obviously good at not letting it smell like smoke indoors (would have been a handy trick for me to have known in high school).

He accidentally dropped a butt out the window, and then I saw fresh little tobacco leaves on the windowsill. That's how I found out this time.

I'd love to "put my foot down" about him actually quitting smoking, but I don't believe it works that way. And, I'm not the boss of him. I'm not his wife or his probation officer (no offense to wives). If he were just my roommate, I'd still have agreed to live in a smoke-free environment, right? But, I digress.

The answers are coming in quickly and they've been amazing, people. Wow! Thank you.
posted by little_dog_laughing at 3:22 PM on August 31, 2013


Something is broken here. I don't know what but you've a generally awesome relationship being torn apart by seemingly trivial behaviors. (I'm not asking much - just don't smoke, just tell truth,why can't you do it? or on his side - it's only one cigarette a month,why can't you chill out.) So, it seems small but it isn't. Us strangers can guess why (addiction, conflict avoidance, trust issues, not being honest about your resentment of the smoking....) but you two need to figure it out.

My advice - start a conversation from a place that you have a great relationship, you just need to have a loving and honest talk to figure out what is going on and what each of you can do to make the relationship better. It will help if you start the conversation with lots of reassurance about how great the relationship is and how much you love and appreciate him. It will also help if you can be honest about your part. (Are you struggling to accept that you can't make him just totally quit? If so, that struggle may be making harder for you deal with even one cigarette in the house. Or you telling him to be honest but freaking out when he tells you the truth? Admit that as part of what is going on for you.)

It can be hard to stay calm and open and honest, Just remind yourself and each other than you love and care about each other and that love is bigger than the problem.
posted by metahawk at 3:32 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, I think bad habits where the other person is trying to minimize or avoid negatively impacting you are very forgiveable. I mean, this whole giant thread at Captain Awkward about non-cleaning/non-cooking partners is in part about bad habits, and how some people decide that their comfort is a billion times more important then the health and happiness of their SOs. But in your case, he's trying as best as he can.
posted by spamandkimchi at 3:32 PM on August 31, 2013 [2 favorites]


Best answer: If we weren't talking about an addiction, and one that is now fairly heavily shamed in our society (I'm assuming you're in NA), my answer would be different and I would say 'hell ya, this is a flag!'.

But as others have pointed out, it is an addiction, and it's quite possible that he feels quite ashamed of the fact that he can't stop smoking. I found out after being married for a year, that my husband had been smoking the whole time we were together despite the fact that he told me he had quite months before we started seeing each other. Was I thrilled - no. Did I get over it - yes.

I'd love to "put my foot down" about him actually quitting smoking, but I don't believe it works that way. And, I'm not the boss of him. I'm not his wife or his probation officer (no offense to wives).

This may very well be the case, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't somehow think he's doing wrong by you to be still smoking. And if he's doing wrong anyway, he may think that he might as well just smoke where he wants, inside or out.

I'm not suggesting you're doing something wrong - but it doesn't change the way he feels, and I think it's unlikely that he'll change his behaviour. You need to decide if you can live with it if he doesn't.

On the flip side, if you let this go completely, and genuinely can come to a place where it's not a big deal as long as he's not smoking where you're directly inhaling his second-hand smoke, it's quite possible he'll stop sneaking around and may even stop smoking inside. Shame is an incredibly powerful and destructive motivator, whether it's real or perceived.
posted by scrute at 3:39 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, our rebellious, middle-aged antagonist

Is this the attitude you have when you talk about your preferences? It would be kind of hard to take you seriously. Are you sure he's "promising" and not just saying "sure, whatever" to your requests?

Anyway, he should take responsibility for his actions, and it seems the best way to do that would be to make it more practical for him to smoke outside. Do you have a yard? How about getting a chair and an awning? Or a gazebo or something.
posted by spaltavian at 3:44 PM on August 31, 2013


Gah, how annoying.

I have Emotional Issues Related to Smoking. Like, my dad died when I was really, really young from emphysema. And yet I'm also fairly chill about it unless it involves someone really close to me. But in college, I lived with one smoker after another who swore--unprompted--that they'd only ever smoke outside and they never, ever stuck with that. Ever ever. The minute it got cold, or I went away for a weekend, I'd come back to a dormroom that stank (one roomie tried to cover it up with scented room spray, which just made the room smell like flowers AND ass.)

So I get how frankly irritating it is, both as a habit and a habit to lie about.

With my own SO, he had "recently quit" when we got together. And then that first new years together, he said he'd smoke his "last ever cigarette" while with me at a party because he'd slipped up. And then he was going through some shit, and he kept coming over tasting like cigarettes. Then I found a pack of them in the center console of his car.

Because of my dad, this was absolutely a big deal and not okay with me. And we struggled with it for a long time. I tried not to react in an emotional way, but it was emotional--even before we were married, I knew I couldn't risk losing him like I had my father (even though there are a thousand ways to lose someone. But I wasn't going through the oxygen tanks and the declining health shit again over cigarettes, no way.) Finally we got to a point where he knew he could talk to me about it without my freaking out, and it took years and therapy on my part. He came to me during a particularly difficult time in his life and our marriage and said, "I really want to start smoking again. How would you feel about me smoking e-cigarettes?"

I thought about it, and did some research, and realized I felt fine with it. That was . . . four years ago? He hasn't smoked a "real" cigarette since, and says he never would, ever again. For the first time, I trust him completely--because it's supplanted his old addiction completely, from the ritual of it to, well, the nicotine, and I feel a lot more secure about it and he doesn't have to worry about slipping up and hiding or slipping up and having to fess up.

I don't know if all this anecdata helps, but that's been my experience with it, and it's a much more highly charged, emotional issue for me than it is for most people. E-cigs were our only route to total trust here, which feels like a corntastic thing to say, but it's true.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:49 PM on August 31, 2013 [6 favorites]


Best answer: Oh, and in my experience, it always rocks trust a little bit when you realize your partner is willfully lying, even over something small. So I get where you are emotionally. It doesn't mean he's a loathsome liar who lies about other things, but at the same time, catching someone in the act of deceiving you means that you'll have to rebuild that trust again, even a little bit. It's just the truth of it. So I don't think you're awful or your relationship is awful because you've had that reaction.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:52 PM on August 31, 2013 [4 favorites]


I just want honesty.

Well, yeah, but it also sounds like you really, really want the house to be smoke free. Even though you say you don't want to set rules, maybe to him it feels like a de facto rule passed without his full input, or maybe after it became a de facto rule, he found that for him it sucks to live with even though he's ambivalent about the whole topic and probably wants to quit, and doesn't, at the same time but he can't revisit the discussion because in theory, he totally wants to quit but in practice not so much.

Is there a room he can smoke in, or a patio, or a place he could go outside? It sounds like he just wants to relax with a cigarette.

I used to be a big smoker and used to blow smoke out of my bedroom window, long ago, when I lived with a roommate. It was quite embarrassing because I couldn't quit and my roommate had.I don't know if I ever lied about it, I think I might have just lied by omission.

It sounds like you have a pretty nice relationship and I wouldn't go seeing everything else through the lens of Immature Secret Smoker Who Lies. It's just this one thing, and he is probably embarrassed. Addiction is weird and hard. I think I'd cut him some slack. (Not that I don't totally understand where you're coming from.)
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:56 PM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]


To answer your question, no, I don't think this is indicative of character flaw particularly.

Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been a smoker. I have also never been an anti-smoker even though I think people better shouldn't do stuff that's bad for them. I wouldn't much like to live with a smoker and, if I did, I would also rather they smoke outside. I don't, however, have the strong revulsion for tobacco smoke that is pretty much socially normal these days. I grew up in an era when it was usual to smoke indoors, and now it's usual to smoke outside. Smokers were once the norm, then they became folk devils. I also know that the smell of tobacco smoke, nowadays, is really noticeable - I notice it, even though I'm not especially bothered by it, but boy does it stand out. And I know that assuring buyers that an item has been stored in a smoke free home is an important point. You want to keep the new home smoke free. I see your point.

Except that's not really the point, is it? You can't stand his smoking and you hate that you have no control over it. You don't want the house to be smoke free, you want him to be smoke free and every time you detect smoke in the house it stirs up your rage that he is still a smoker.

I don't know what the answer is, but whatever it is, maybe it will involve acknowledging what you really want that you're not getting. You don't want him to smoke outside, you want him to smoke nowhere, and as long as he is smoking you are likely to be enraged by it. You can acknowledge this to yourself without having to do anything about it. You don't have to (now) hatch a plan for explaining to him that you want this, you don't have to figure out how you're going to get this or what you'll do if you don't get this, you just admit to yourself that what you really want is for him not to smoke.

At least that's how it reads to me.

Beyond that, I have no advice. I don't know what else you can do beyond the first step.

I will also say that, to me, you sound a bit controlling. Not that I'm unsympathetic as it's easy to see why you'd want someone you love to stop smoking and get frustrated when you can't control the outcome. I'm wondering how many answers would become unsympathetic if you were talking about a habit that MeFites tend to approve of (taking illegal drugs or consuming or producing porn or, for Brits and Aussies at least, drinking alcohol) rather than one we tend to disapprove of (smoking, drinking Frappuccinos, and for North Americans at least, drinking alcohol). In many cases, the disagreement isn't about "this is harmful" (though sometimes it is) as much as it's about "sure it can be harmful but the real harm is in interfering with his freedom of choice."

I can't come down on one side or the other about that. I would ask you a question which seems so obvious that you might think it didn't need to be asked: why does his smoking [in the house] enrage you so much? Maybe I've misread you and it really is the lying that bothers you, and you're getting inklings of massive dishonesty elsewhere that you can't put into words yet? You sell a lot of stuff on eBay and you want to have a smoke free home? You are just frightened for his health and wish he would take better care of himself? You can't afford the monetary cost of the habit?

Again, I don't really know what the next step would be after answering that question but I do think it might help to define exactly what about the smoking [in the house] pushes your buttons so much.
posted by tel3path at 4:00 PM on August 31, 2013 [4 favorites]


Ok, so I'm pretty intolerant of lying and dishonesty in an SO, having lived with a former husband who lied the way he breathed--all the fucking time without giving it a second thought. My current husband does not lie to me at all that I know of, and when he smoked he did it outside all the time, without exception, whether I was home or not, in the heat of summer and the ass-deep snow of winter. So, I guess I don't have a ton of sympathy for your SO on this. But. There is an upside to the sneakery, if you can find a way to get over the huffiness you feel over the lying.

When my daughter was a teenager we had the rule about not smoking inside. Being a rebellious and generally lazy sort, she occasionally felt the need to smoke one in the apartment when she thought she could get away with it. Yes, the times I found out about it it pissed me off. But the thing is, because she was sneaking she was extra-careful to make sure I didn't find out... meaning she cleaned up after herself, did her best to make sure the smoke went out the window, etc.

Had I ever said to her, "do what you want, just stop LYING about it" my apartment would have smelled and looked like the inside of an ashtray.

So maybe don't tell him that, and just let him be sneaky, and enjoy having his indoor smoking be infrequent and well-hidden instead of him blatantly and honestly puffing away like a stinking chimney inside your house.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:10 PM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: Well, I nursed him through 2 separate bouts of cancer treatment. He battled cancer for the first time before we met.

I got a little jumpy reading that I sound controlling. Fact is, he could snort PCP-laced tobacco leaves off a sex worker's thigh for all I care.

I was a die-hard smoker for 15 or 20 years (Now I'm a die-hard hyphenator). I don't feel morally superior, I'm not on the verge of starting to smoke again. I actually dig the smell of cigarette smoke. Oh, and full disclosure: it's a rental. We're not home owners. I just feel greasy when I'm around smoke. Like, my skin feels yuck.

I do sound controlling, huh? --Sorry about all the sarcasm and weird attempts at funny. I think this AskMe has been quite revealing for me. It's got me looking inward.
posted by little_dog_laughing at 4:17 PM on August 31, 2013


Well you didn't mention the cancer, nor your role in being his carer. No wonder this is driving you crazy.

That would really distress me too and make me think I was about to have to do it all again.

And I'm sure he knows this and isn't acting under the impression that smoking is a good idea.

Again, I have no suggestions, other than to contemplate the big picture and go from there. Sorry about the angstful situation you're in.
posted by tel3path at 4:32 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


You're making this all about you or him or you and him.

It's about his addiction. Treat that, not the small stuff about him occasionally smoking inside.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:39 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


You need to have him explain why he is smoking in the house and address that. If it is just because it is easier, can you both figure out a way to make smoking outside easier than smoking inside? Like only keep his cigarettes in the car or the garage or something? If it is because there is something inside he wants to do while smoking, is there a way to make it so he can do that thing outside? Like if he smokes while watching the baseball game, can you make the TV face the porch or whatever so he can watch through the window?
posted by Rock Steady at 4:57 PM on August 31, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm pretty confused by what you want and how you feel. Maybe it's the sarcasm, maybe it's the flippancy... Maybe he is, too?

But no, my SO and I don't BS each other on any issues. It's called out when it's even attempted, and we work better that way.
posted by sm1tten at 5:11 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


I agree he needs to figure out why he's smoking in the house. It could be as simple as, he wants to watch TV while he does it, or sit in his comfy chair or whatever. (And, as someone pointed out above, once he explains why he's doing it, maybe he can figure out a realistic setup that lets him enjoy his relax-routine outside.)

I don't think smoking inside - even after having promised not to - makes him an untrustworthy person. But it is annoying, and very likely to stink up your house eventually, and a dynamic where you are the inquisitor-enforcer is bad for your relationship in general. I would let the house stink rather than fall into this trap.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:39 PM on August 31, 2013


I do sound controlling, huh?

No you don't.

I'd wonder what other little white lies I was being told in that situation, since he doesn't think anything of ignoring your requests when he decides they don't matter. You have every reason not to want him to smoke in the house, and he won't even have an adult discussion with you about it if he disagrees?

It would irritate me that he was acting like a rebellious fourteen-year-old and sneaking cigarettes inside the house but wouldn't own his behavior.
posted by winna at 6:00 PM on August 31, 2013 [13 favorites]


It's one thing to feel guilty, but too guilty to declare what he's doing like a man and to lie about it as if he's afraid of your reaction? He's acting like a child, and he will probably resent you for justifiably treating him like one in the long run. And though he might dodge your anger (if there is any), he will end up losing your respect.

How do you wake the man in him up? Why don't you ask him why he's afraid to tell the truth?
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 6:32 PM on August 31, 2013 [5 favorites]


You don't sound controlling to me. He committed to having your new place be smoke free, and he's sneaking around about not honoring his commitment. He should either sack up and ask to renegotiate the agreement -- perhaps having a designated smoking area in the home -- or he should have the self-respect to be a person of his word, and smoke the hell outside.
posted by nacho fries at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2013 [4 favorites]


Best answer: I'm usually pretty in tune with AskMeFi. I'm a bit shaken that I'm not in this case, because maybe I'm too harsh? But this would absolutely be a huge problem for me. In the possibly-terminating-relationship arena of problematic.

The subject matter is kind of irrelevant (although obviously depending on what it was - crime, for example - it could be its own problem). I am someone who tries to be honest in day-to-day interaction. But promises bring it to a whole new level. If I promise I'll do something, I will try my hardest to do it. That's what that means to me. That's why I don't often promise things. And people who are close to me know this about me, and know that I expect the same in return.

Even given that, I could forgive someone breaking their promise once. Perhaps even twice. But this many times with a come-to-Jesus thrown into the mix and still promising and breaking? I would struggle a lot with that. It seems doubly disrespectful and would absolutely make me lose trust, because what is trust but faith that someone will do what they say they'll do?
posted by vegartanipla at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2013 [15 favorites]


I'm surprised how much blame is being laid at your feet for this. Addiction is not a free pass for not taking responsibility for ones actions.

He has options here, if he didn't/doesn't want the house to be smoke free he can say that, and you guys can discuss it and negotiate like adults. If he agrees the house should be smoke free, and he does smoke in the house, he can take responsibility and tell you.

I have experienced two SO's quitting smoking while I was with them. The first decided he wanted to quit (I really didn't care), and I tried to be supportive, which included periodically asking "how it was going". He repeatedly relapsed to secret smoking, and lied about it for years. It became a major issue, not because I cared about the smoking, but because of the lying. After we split up (we were still friends), I asked him why, why lie when I didn't care if he smoked or not? He really didn't know. I think he may have wanted to quit but felt unable to do it without a deterrent and so used me as an unwilling enforcer. In his case, I think the unnecessary lying was an indication/result of emotional immaturity, and a need to avoid unpleasant feelings at any cost. He wasn't aware of why he acted the way he did but that didn't make it any less hurtful and unfair to me.

My second smoking SO I encouraged to quit (this was 3 years in and after watching his father struggle for at least a year with pnemonia and serious respiratory issues), and I tried to be supportive, including periodically asking "how it's going". He just tells me the truth. No deception, no drama, no fireworks. We have never fought about smoking.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, contrary to the prevailing wind here, i dont think deception is a given in the situation you describe (heck, he's not even quitting, just going outside!), and from the way you describe it, I'd suspect his behavior has a lot more to do with him and his issues, then you and yours.

As to your original questions, I think your feelings about this are totally understandable. Repeated deception, even about something semmingly small, can really wear away at trust. Smoking in the house should be a small thing, but for some reason he is making it a big, stressful, drama filled thing. My inclination would be to try and find out why, really unpack it with him (if he's able) and see where his sticking point is (is it the rule, the follow through or the feelings he has when he breaks an agreement), and problem solve that. This would have to be in a truce called, no blaming, safe zone - which could be difficult depending on the situation and personalities. Be sympathetic and loving if you feel like it, but trust yourself too, if he's acting in a way that doesn't feel respectful or honest, that matters, and it won't go away unless something changes.
posted by pennypiper at 6:42 PM on August 31, 2013 [6 favorites]


Best answer: I dunno. People are going to do what they're going to do (as you well seem to understand). He's going to try to always smoke outside, and to mostly smoke outside, but to once a month sneak a smoke inside while (almost) hiding the traces. And to him, either that's equivalent to "i will smoke outside" or it's a failure he hides and hopes not to repeat.

Do I think this makes him "untrustworthy" in general? No. Do I think that he might say "I'll drop this in the mailbox this evening" and then not do it until first thing the next morning because that's basically the same thing as far as the postal service is concerned? Possibly. Do I think he might just pay the parking ticket he's embarrassed about rather than telling you about it? Possibly.

The biggest problems in my view here are: 1. you expressed your views on this once, yet it continued, 2. you don't know why (to him) this is consistent with being an honorable person, and 3. all that is causing you to get really worried.

Like you, I'm not sure why he thinks it's okay to smoke inside once a month, but you need to find out, so that you can understand how his mind works. You two need to get beyond this black-and-white phase you're at now (where this is a "lie," making him untrustworthy across the board) to a more nuanced conversation where you know what's going on in his head, what the real risks are, and how to mitigate those risks via more specific communication.

For example, you might need to have conversations like "this is a 'letter of the law' 100% never thing, not a 'substantially equivalent' thing." "Hmm, to be honest, I can only promise on the 'I'll try and I'll do it most of the time' level, not on the 'I can assure you that this will absolutely never happen ever' level. Would that work for you?"
posted by salvia at 7:07 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think you're being controlling at all. I think you're not taking your feelings seriously. This isn't about smoking. It's about being honest. I wouldn't be comfortable in a relationship where people tell a lot of little white lies.

In my relationship, I'm the one who struggles with this (not regarding smoking, just minor things I'm embarrassed about), and my partner gives me a pass. But I don't like that I do this. It bothers me about myself. I'd probably be relieved if he confronted me.

I agree with salvia that you need to come to a more nuanced understanding. WHY doesn't he think this is a big deal? Are personal habits exempt from relationship rules? Is he forgetful and doesn't remember the rule until he's halfway through a cigarette? Does he really think he can smoke in the house without you knowing?

I think you need to know WHY he is doing this to know how important this issue is.

But don't disregard your feelings with an attempt to be light-hearted and sarcastic. You are noticing something important. Take a closer look.
posted by 3491again at 7:22 PM on August 31, 2013 [2 favorites]


Get tactical. This should be about keeping the house from smelling bad. If you don't smell any smoke, then there should be no issue.

Couldn't he just smoke in a bathroom and run the fan? I'm a very occasional smoker and this works well!
posted by see_change at 7:39 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think the problem is about honesty and respect. When person A and B agree on a thing, then person B doesn't follow the agreed path, that's a shame. That's a fine time for everyone involved to reevaluate if the chosen path is the correct path. But when person B apologizes to person A, that means the path is correct and they were at fault for straying from it.

To continual stray while still apologizing or not saying the plan should be re-evaluated, means that person B is not respecting person A. That means that person B is using his or her apology as the quickest way to end the conversation/discussion/fight/argument.

It sounds like he's not being honest with you. And when you ask for his honesty and he fails to give it, all the while mouthing agreement, he's not respecting you. It sounds like he just wants to smoke indoors but doesn't want to have a fight about it.
posted by jaybeans at 7:55 PM on August 31, 2013 [4 favorites]


My experience has been that there a lot of weirdness with regards to smoking and secrecy. I smoked for many years and was in the middle of an attempt to quit when I began to systematically remove places where I could smoke. I realized at that point that it would just be easier to quit than drag it out (I realize your SO isn't quitting right now). No longer smoking in my apartment was very difficult for me.

A few years later my SO smoked in the house after I finally quit. He did this a few times even though he said said (unprompted by me!) that he'd never smoke in the house again. He thought I'd never notice. It was always in a moment of weakness or frustration and he tried to cover it because he was embarrassed. (I should mention, he hasn't smoked in the house in years. But I recall being disturbed by the lies and covering even though I understood it from the perspective of my own addiction).

There is something comforting and seriously ingrained about smoking in one's own house or apartment. If you ever had the misfortune of becoming accustomed to smoking in your own home (hello early 1980's), it can be very complicated to stop. It seemed simple enough. I didn't want to smoke in my house anymore. The thought disgusted me. And, after some time abstaining from smoking in my house, the idea felt almost alien to me. But every now and then BAM!– this thing would take over and I'd think, "whatever, who cares, just this once!".

To me, it was almost like a really mild form of relapsing, only I hadn't even quit yet. It's just the one aspect of smoking that has been removed and it's only a problem once in a while. But when certain conditions arise (such as being "stuck" in the house for some reason–waiting for a repair person or because it's snowing or because your brain wants to smoke inside so badly because you're home and it's nice there and smoking is something you do (did) to feel better and fuck it–!) it can be overwhelmingly compelling. I think that's where the secrecy and covering come in. Because it's really embarrassing. You feel weak and stupid. The few times I did this I was more than a little surprised at myself. It was actually easier to quit altogether, than to simply not smoke in my house anymore. (And I didn't have anyone besides me objecting to it at the time!).

I'd say that if your SO isn't lying about anything else, I'd consider this an issue of addiction and not simply one of trust. I'd try to work something out with my SO. Possibly spelling it out–just what rooms might be acceptable places for him to smoke x-minimum amount of times a month–would help. That way, when and if he does smoke in the house it won't be a lie or breach of trust.
posted by marimeko at 8:09 PM on August 31, 2013 [1 favorite]


I hate people who smoke indoors in spaces that don't belong to them. It indicates to me that they have a lack of respect for anyone else and anyone else's property. Which would make me wonder how much respect they had for ME, or my property.

I don't mind smoking or people who smoke. But I dislike when they make their addiction my problem. Here, your SO has made his inability to stop smoking indoors, YOUR problem - with potential landlord issues, financial issue (bond) and also your health and personal preferences for your home, your sanctuary. Would it be okay if your SO was a slob and causing your home to be filthy to a level of gross? No. So it shouldn't be okay for him to make your home one you don't enjoy being in. To me, that would be the issue right there. You are not wrong for wanting a smoke free home. He should smoke outside, just as he should defecate in the toilet.
posted by shazzam! at 9:08 PM on August 31, 2013 [7 favorites]


You do not sound controlling. You sound very live-and-let-live ( hyphenation joy!). Not wanting cigarettes to infect your home is not asking for much.
posted by Neekee at 1:09 AM on September 1, 2013 [4 favorites]


Your first follow-up concerns me, because as soon as you thought we were saying that this wasn't a big deal like embezzlement, you backed down completely and negated every concern you had ever had about this topic. This suggests to me that you are afraid to advocate for yourself, that you sacrifice your own needs often.

I'm not the boss of him. I'm not his wife or his probation officer (no offense to wives).

Look, I am totally down with people not being married. But let's chat about that comment, because it's about more than wives.

There's a big idea in our society about wives being the ol' ball and chain, ruiners of fun, controlling nags. Then there's the idea of marriage being Every Woman's Dream and Every Man's End Of Freedom & Fun. There's also a big idea in our society that women are natural care-givers and great at taking care of the house, that a house needs "a woman's touch" and if a man runs a house it will look like the domain of wild dogs (i.e. the man cave, the bachelor pad). And then there's this idea that if you want to be the Cool Girlfriend, you should let your man do whatever he wants and take up absolutely no room in his life, and if there's evidence of you in his house he's probably "whipped".

Here are some other ideas for you to consider:
  • It is a good and caring thing to give a shit when your partner makes decisions that damage their health or your relationship or even just you. If you really truly think that "he could snort PCP-laced tobacco leaves off a sex worker's thigh for all I care", then you probably don't love him or even like him that much. Given that you've nursed him through cancer twice, I doubt that's the case. And that's completely normal! He's your partner, of course you care what he does. You want to be with him and to be healthy and happy together. Right?
  • Every person has needs and wants. You're allowed to ask for things. You're allowed to take up space in the relationship.
  • You do things for your probation officer because you go to jail otherwise. You do things for your partner because you love them and you want them to be happy, and it's helpful to know what makes them happy and what makes them upset.
  • You can be mad when your partner breaks their agreement with you.
  • Men are able to listen to their partners and care for them in the ways they need caring for. Even in little ways.
  • My dad used to smoke 2 packs a day. Outside. My mom never asked him to quit, and she never backed down on a smoke-free house. She is not controlling. It's just the price of admission if you want to live with my mom.
  • Sometimes standing up for ourselves and advocating for ourselves can feel like we're doing things that our society looks down on women for. Sometimes that society subtly asks us to give men infinite leniency and not expect them to be good partners. This is not fair to either gender: women have needs, and men have a huge capacity to be caring partners.
You are not a bad girlfriend for saying "Lover, we agreed that we both wanted a smoke-free house and it is really upsetting to me that you keep breaking that deal. I don't want to feel like your dorm mother. I want to be able to trust you. I also don't want cigarette smoke in my house. It makes my skin feel gross, and it bothers me to think you're lying to me. You know I don't like your smoking because I'm scared the cancer will come back. You also know I've never asked you to quit, and I feel like you're taking advantage of my niceness here. Let's think of a solution for this."
posted by heatherann at 1:22 AM on September 1, 2013 [34 favorites]


Best answer: you don't sound controlling to me at all. i would be upset about the lying as well, but in the grand scheme of things smoking in the house once a month isn't a big deal. having cancer twice--yup, that's a big deal. as was said, addicts lie so i guess it isn't that surprising. i would tell him i am not happy with the lying though if you haven't already. it doesn't mean he is "generally untrustworthy" but maybe not as shiny as you thought he was.
posted by wildflower at 2:40 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]


Best answer: To me, the bad part is not so much the failure to take the smoking outside (that is very lame, but forgivable), or even the fact that this was breaking a promise, but the concealment of the broken promise afterward.

Yes, I do think doing something that you promised not to, and then covering it up instead of admitting it, does paint you as untrustworthy generally. I think it's a big deal. I think you are justified if you break up with him over it. It's not about the cigarette smoke, it's the violation of trust.

I've seen apparently successful relationships where people lie to each other over little things. I'd find this intolerable, but they seem to roll with it. It is done.

The most optimistic read here is these particular deceptions are deviant and don't speak to his true character. I think that's unlikely but possible. You've been with him for some years now, you're in the best position to judge.
posted by mattu at 8:28 AM on September 1, 2013


OK, I'm a smoker who loves to smoke inside, hates the smell of it, and loves when my BFF lets me sneak a cig in her [non-smoking] boyfriend's house.

What bugs me about this situation is his intention to deceive, and the fact that it seems to be systematic and continuous. No, you don't want him to 'confess to mommy' every time it happens, but the sensation of something continually being kept from you, the feeling that someone is regularly focusing on hiding from you . . . that sucks. And I can't think of how to get around it, short of: telling him that he's welcome to smoke in the house on rare occasions, and reminding him to be discreet [respectful?] enough to make sure it never smells and there's no mess left around. And then maybe you assume it's happening regularly and he's managing the smell/mess -- and see how that feels for you. Maybe taking the breaking of promises will take all the sting out of it, or maybe not -- but then maybe you'll be able to focus on to what extent the fact that he smokes at all is bothering you.
posted by MeiraV at 9:25 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]


I was your SO at one point. I quit smoking years ago, but when I was a smoker it was verboten inside the house. Trouble was, I liked smoking at my computer. I liked smoking in my favourite chair.

It wasn't really a goal of mine to deceive anyone, but the minute my wife was out the door I had a smoke in my hand in the house. I knew I shouldn't have been doing it, but I really couldn't help myself. I'd always think "I shouldn't, but it's not really a big deal since no one else is home and I'll open a window and life will carry on...". I didn't really understand the big deal until I quit smoking, now I understand completely, but at the time I just didn't get it.

Especially if in prior houses he's used to being allowed to smoke inside, it can be a tough transition as smoking was very much a physical habit for me (i.e. sitting down at the computer would trigger a craving). I don't think you're going to have a ton of luck with this as long as he's a smoker as he probably just doesn't get it. I think continuing to give him heck when you catch him will hopefully reduce the occurrences and at the very least encourage him not to get caught and thereby manage the mess and smell.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2013 [2 favorites]


And then there's this idea that if you want to be the Cool Girlfriend, you should let your man do whatever he wants and take up absolutely no room in his life, and if there's evidence of you in his house he's probably "whipped".

This, this, a thousand times this.

Look. Sometimes I do stuff in my house that my SO doesn't want me to do. (Like stay up late watching TV in the living room after he's gone to sleep). But because I know that's something I want to do even though he doesn't want me to, I don't fucking promise I won't. You are one hundred percent right to be concerned that he has broken a promise he has given you, particularly a promise about how he would behave after he broke a promise (coming forward, not lying or hiding it)

I would view this as a definite red flag. It's about the trust, not the cigarettes. And how I would frame it is, "Are you capable of giving me a promise on this score, or is your addiction serious enough that you cannot control your behavior?" And if this is the case, he needs actual treatment and to straight up quit, because it is an addiction that is negatively impacting his life. People who say he wants to smoke in the home - has he ever actually come to you and said "Hey, I want to renegotiate these rules?"

Don't feel like you have to be the cool girlfriend, not the ball and chain, in order to get honesty.
posted by corb at 12:13 PM on September 1, 2013 [4 favorites]


corb is completely right. It's the fact he promises and then does it anyway that is the worst part. It seems to indicate that there are at least some promises he will make you that he'll break without blinking and you have no idea which. That is a very serious problem and one you should address.

She's also right about the whole 'cool' girlfriend thing. It is a pernicious piece of rubbish.
posted by winna at 3:54 PM on September 1, 2013 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: I just marked some best answers here. I wanted to mark only the answers that stayed truest to the original question, which was about breaking a promise (repeatedly). However, only one or two commenters were with me in seeing this issue as black and white, and breaking promises, so says the AskMe consensus, is different when the promise involves an addictive behavior, fraught with shame, so on, so forth. The smoking indoors is, unfortunately, very low on my list of Things I Give A Care About. I wish my biggest problem in life was a whisp of smoke in my home.

So. What I'm taking away from this thread is that human nature predicts that even our closest, most intimate companions will deceive us. Aaaaaannd, it's kind of not the end of the world.

Pinkie promises sort of ARE for 10-yr-olds.

Not fessing up to a broken promise? The answer is situational, but, again: not the end of the world. It's human nature.

For anyone reading this who's thinking, Wait! I keep promises! --You're not alone. We're just a rare breed.
posted by little_dog_laughing at 6:25 AM on September 2, 2013


I didn't really understand the big deal until I quit smoking, now I understand completely, but at the time I just didn't get it.

Exactly. And now this is departing from Beacon Inbound's point, but when you're addicted to something, you don't get how it looks from the outside and you tell yourself fairy tales about what you're doing. The fact that you sometimes go, "Oh fuck it" and smoke/drink/whatever in a way that you have previously promised to not is not an annoying byproduct of addiction, it's what addiction is all about. Sure, your boyfriend is lying to you; to some extent he is lying to himself. That's why addicts are so deeply unreliable. They convince you, because when they make promises, they believe them. Not that this means it's OK for him to be acting that way; just, if you get too deeply into trying to "control" the addiction and his behavior around it, so long as he is still addicted you are doomed to fail. Not only that, at a certain point you are enabling the charade.

I think you should at least get him to try e-cigs.
posted by BibiRose at 7:03 AM on September 2, 2013 [1 favorite]


and breaking promises, so says the AskMe consensus, is different when the promise involves an addictive behavior, fraught with shame, so on, so forth.

I'd like then to go on record that, as a former addict, I am not among the supposed MeFi consensus. Your partner is breaking a promise while he is of clear mind -- not when his inhibitions are lowered by an intoxicant, as would be the case for someone in the thrall of alcohol, meth, or coke. He knows what he's doing, and he is in control while doing so.

This is a guy you nursed through two bouts of cancer, and he thinks it's OK to throw that care back in your face by sneaking around with the cigs. If ethics are situational and optional, then I hope he's prepared for you to be all "Oops, I decided not to honor my promise to drive you to chemo" next time he gets ill.

What I see in this thread is you being very, very quick to abandon yourself based on the opinions of others (the supposed consensus) and declare that bad behavior is human nature and to be expected of intimates. That's only the case if you opt in to participating in that dynamic.
posted by nacho fries at 9:53 AM on September 2, 2013 [4 favorites]


However, only one or two commenters were with me in seeing this issue as black and white, and breaking promises, so says the AskMe consensus, is different when the promise involves an addictive behavior, fraught with shame, so on, so forth.

I think it really depends on what the promise is and how important it is to you. E.g. most people would care more about their partner cheating than about their partner buying an extra candy bar when they promised not to (or not doing a chore they promised to, or whatever). It seems like for a lot of people here, smoking indoors falls closer to the "forbidden candy" side than the "cheating" side. It sounds like it falls around there for your partner too, which is probably why he's not seeing this as a huge problem or breach of trust.

I'd just like to say that if smoking indoors is a big deal for you, it's totally OK for you to be firm with your partner about it. It doesn't mean you're uptight or whatever - different people have different things that are a Big Deal to them, and that's OK. You don't need to go with the consensus of what "should be" a big deal for you. You might need to explain to your partner exactly why it's a big deal and suggest possible alternatives (e-cig is a great idea). I would have flipped out way earlier than this if it were me - totally unacceptable behaviour for me, if I dated smokers (which I don't, for this and other reasons). Total dealbreaker for me, and that's ok. For other people, it's a minor transgression but no big deal, and that's also OK.

It's really more about the issue itself than about "breaking a promise" - everyone will break minor promises sometimes. It's when they break promises that they know are really important to you that you should be worried.
posted by randomnity at 10:44 AM on September 3, 2013 [3 favorites]


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