What are the rewards of studying Chinese language?
August 30, 2013 5:20 AM   Subscribe

Hello, According to Heisig, there is a high dropout rate for Chinese courses. According to another author, there will be high demand in future for people who have knowledge of Chinese language and business studies. I was wondering if anyone had any more information I could use to boost my motivation when studying Chinese, e.g. the low cost of living in China? Thanks.
posted by Musashi Daryl to Education (20 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Unless you take your studies to a very high level, I think most of the rewards will be personal rather than professional. Unless you become a translator, most professions would require you to have a high level of experience in a particular field or industry in order to work on behalf of a company or organization in China, and even then you would likely be competing against locals who also have related experience and native language fluency. So don't make the mistake of thinking that language alone is a huge door-opener work-wise.
posted by Dansaman at 5:51 AM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


This might not be the best answer, but I love studying Chinese because I am intrinsically interested in the language and culture of China. I have a slight bit of heritage and I love to write the Chinese characters.

I think a good motivation booster is to find a group to study with. Seriously, there is nothing like having a group of people who are struggling with the same material as you to cheer up a study session. Some of my dearest friends are people I have once sat in a room with, saying, "I WILL NEVER LEARN CHINESE!!!!!!" Also I have incidentally learned a lot of Chinese this way.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:53 AM on August 30, 2013 [2 favorites]


Having studied Chinese for quite a few years, I have probably come into contact with more Chinese learners than average.

Now, I don't mean to sound discouraging, but I have not once met anyone who learned Chinese for career/business/economic purposes only and spoke it well. I think this makes sense, because the usefulness of Chinese skills in the business world is probably the most oversold concept of recent years. My experience is that many non-Chinese who speak Chinese very well wish they could have a job making use of their Chinese skills, but very few actually do.

The best non-native Chinese speakers tend to have (1) some Chinese heritage, (2) strong personal reasons to learn the language (e.g., a Chinese spouse), or (3) a strong passion for (some aspect of) the Chinese language/country/culture. I think these are all pretty strong motivators.
posted by yonglin at 6:15 AM on August 30, 2013 [5 favorites]


Anecdotes in this thread suggest that language skills in general are an advantage for a career in the military and intelligence services.

I was struck by this MeFite's mention in a similar thread that even in his career as a corporate litigator, being completely fluent and literate in Japanese has not garnered him any substantial benefit career-wise. It makes me feel a bit better about never having really put my nose to the grindstone to become fluent in Japanese or any other non-English language.

The one advantage I'd really see for myself in learning Chinese at this point is that because of the large population of Chinese people globally a larger and larger percentage of the content on the internet will continue to be in Chinese and thus accessible to you if you can read it. Though that of course is also going to be true for French or Spanish or other widely-disseminated languages, but I would think that because the Chinese-speaking/reading population is focused in China primarily right now, content that's in Chinese that has not been translated into English anywhere is probably more common than content in French or Spanish that has not been translated into English. (Though if machine translation improves, that will become a less significant point.)
posted by XMLicious at 6:21 AM on August 30, 2013


My wife learnt Japanese in the UK for three years at evening class and enjoyed it, but in the final year found it incredibly tiring. By the end, everyone except her who had lasted the three years had a personal connection to Japan in the form of relatives or partner. She found that the burden of learning the grammar and having to keep up on the kanji was too much because she wasn't practicing outside class. She also got frustrated that, as a smart person who had worked hard in class and doing homework, her speaking ability was really basic.

There are and will be lots of benefits to speaking Chinese. But the key thing is knowing now how and where you're going to practice it to keep your investment of time going and what that means for your lifestyle. If you don't plan to live in China any time soon, or to use your Chinese as an integral part of your job, or to find a Chinese partner then it may not be worth it other than for the fun of having had a go.
posted by MuffinMan at 6:31 AM on August 30, 2013


Being able to watch all the Chinese dating reality shows. Hands down, best reality TV ever!!! Seriously blows things like The Bachelor out of the water.

Out of all the people I knew from college who learned Chinese, really only one has used it work wise. He worked for a while (he might still be working...?) as a jack of all trades at a popular student bar/club in Beijing, so not quite sure if that counts as using Chinese for business?
posted by astapasta24 at 6:36 AM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


There really isn't a way of learning a language and then building a career out of just knowing that language. All language-based careers require so much expert knowledge in other domains that you just won't have by the time you finish university.

Also, there have been news stories about the upcoming boom in Chinese or Mzrgrxian or whatever, for the last quarter century. It doesn't mean a thing in terms of career development.

The reward has to be that you love the Chinese language and will have the satisfaction of gaining fluency at something that's famously challenging.
posted by tel3path at 6:58 AM on August 30, 2013


Also, what XMLicious said. Intelligence is the one career domain where I can see fluency in Chinese really getting you somewhere within the next few years.
posted by tel3path at 6:59 AM on August 30, 2013


I only have experience with Japanese, but I agree with others that it probably will not in and of itself lead to financial rewards. At best, if you have some other skills (technical, entrepreneurial, whatever), it will work as a force multiplier and let you exercise those skills in a slightly wider range of contexts. And if you are responding to the hype about the coming Chinese century etc., that's your bet to make, but just remember that as tel3path says people are always saying that about one language or another, and it usually doesn't work out that way.

However! If you are open to personal rewards, and you are interested in living in China one day, speaking (and reading!) Chinese surely has the potential to improve your experience dramatically. Not in terms of getting you a better job, but just in day-to-day things -- understanding what's going on around you, solving unexpected problems, seeking out and enjoying new experiences, communicating with and befriending new people, etc. So I would think less about the low cost of living and more about the opportunity to engage seriously and thoughtfully with a culture entirely unlike the one you grew up in (I'm assuming), on its own terms. That sort of thing can be life-changing.
posted by No-sword at 7:17 AM on August 30, 2013


You will never have a tattoo in bad Chinese, unless you have one already.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:21 AM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]


The biggest advantage I've had in knowing Chinese is being able to travel all over China and speak to all kinds of people. Since Mandarin is forced upon them regardless of their native language (Mandarin is a native language now, but there are many other languages in China), all educated people speak it. Also, quite a lot of uneducated people (China has a lot of illiterate and unschooled older people) can communicate in Mandarin.

It helps to be able to read characters, but you can get a lot out of just speaking.

It's really fascinating to be able to go to little villages and talk to the people about their lifestyle and outlook. Sometimes it's difficult to understand their pronunciation, but if you know the language pretty well, you can get used to new accents quickly.
posted by strangeguitars at 7:25 AM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


Asking "what are the rewards of learning Chinese" is no different than asking "what are the rewards of running a marathon" or "what are the rewards of learning to play the trombone". Language learning will be covered in this comment. The trombone will not.

According to another author, there will be high demand in future for people who have knowledge of Chinese language and business studies

The language to know for international business is English. I tell that to every person who asks, "what language should I learn for business".

I'm the Japanese-speaking litigator mentioned upthread. I stand by what I said in the linked comment. Just about no one is going to hire you just because you speak Chinese. If you want some sort of monetary or career-related reward, you are probably going to be disappointed. If you want to learn a language for a career, probably freelance translation from Chinese to English (which I presume is your native language).

However, if this is simply a matter of personal reward, that is another matter. I am an outlier in that I spend the majority of my free time in foreign language study. In fact, I am studying Mandarin right now. Based on your past question, maybe we started around the same time? I started in Feb/March 2013 and currently have active knowledge of 709 words and 827 characters according to my Skritter logs, which puts me at a lowly HSK3 level, according to the practice tests I've taken. That's a lot of time and effort without much to show for it right now, right? But, I keep plugging away. I am not doing for work or because I plan to live in China or Taiwan. I am doing it because I want to. For me, asking about my motivation to study whatever foreign language I am on is like asking me about my motivation to eat my favorite food.

Anecdote: a few months ago during my family's last annual trip to Japan, I was visiting a local shrine and taking a break with my children at a food stall. An elderly gentleman struck up a conversation with me and as we engaged in small talk, he mentioned that he was from Sendai. I asked him if he was affected by the earthquake. He said that he lost two young grandchildren, but he had to endure and carry on. As brief as the exchange was, it was probably one of the most poignant conversation I've ever had with anyone. It never would have happened if we couldn't speak to each other.

The short answer is, learning a language is primarily its own reward. If it is not, then you are likely to lose interest and move on to doing something else with your time. The fact is that learning a language is a lot of time and effort, but I do not think it is *hard*. Most people will never do it past an elementary level just like most people cancel their gym memberships after a few months. Did you ever get your Japanese past ~JLPTN3? Why or why not? Think about that one and then figure out how or why Chinese will be different.

For me, I think what motivates me is talking with people. I think every person has at least one story to tell, and I want to hear them. Somewhere, there is someone who has a story to tell in Chinese. How badly do you want to hear it?
posted by Tanizaki at 8:57 AM on August 30, 2013 [8 favorites]


"knowledge of Chinese language and business studies"

I can speak to that aspect for the present, not the future. I know several people who studied Economics and Chinese studies who have finished their Master's and went on to work for international corps outside of China (although some Chinese owned). All of them studied the language for 6+ years, spend some time in China/Taiwan for internships/summer work/student exchange programs, became fluent and now have jobs that require the ability to switch between English, Chinese, 3rd language and in some cases even 4th language as the need arises.
They were hired right out of Uni, some even worked part time for the company while finishing their studies. Now they work in telecommunications, manufacturing for industrial and scientific applications (fiber glass, LCDs, etc.), purchasing and consulting. One guy started his own cross cultural training business which is like international business etiquette consulting.

Languages are very important IMO, you'd want to have a solid educational background as well though.
posted by travelwithcats at 9:09 AM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


I took Spanish for 2 years in high school, and Chinese for 3 years in high school and college. (Hey, gotta fill those elective slots somehow.) I got WAY more out of the 2 years of Spanish than 3 years of Chinese (getting solid grades in both). In fact I can be semi-functional in Spanish (order at a restaurant, understand my friends who are native Spanish speakers, once translated a few paragraphs of a business document, that kind of thing) and I can't even manage a 3-year-old level of Chinese.

Not that it was entirely a waste. I work in software, so I have tons of Chinese coworkers. It is very useful to know Chinese holidays, pronunciation of Chinese names, basic greetings, geography of China, that kind of thing. But I could have learned that a lot quicker without studying the language itself.

One problem with Chinese education in the US is that the course materials are a lot less developed. There is only really one line of textbooks, and it's not great. There isn't much in terms of well-designed learning games, instructional videos, and that kind of thing. I think that would help a lot.
posted by miyabo at 10:05 AM on August 30, 2013


there will be high demand in future for people who have knowledge of Chinese language

There is high demand, but there is also very high supply. There are literally millions of people in the US who speak Chinese at home. That will keep the "price" of Chinese knowledge low.

I was wondering if anyone had any more information I could use to boost my motivation when studying Chinese

The 3 or 4 non-Chinese Americans I know who have really mastered the language have done it for a cute person of the opposite sex. :)
posted by miyabo at 10:15 AM on August 30, 2013


You will be able to walk into a friend's house and say "I love your painting! Though it might look better if you hang it upside down."

You will be able to tell if the gaggle of giggling girls on the bus are laughing at you or that bloke beside you.

You will be able to go into those AskMe 'identify this language' threads and go "ok, that is definitely not Chinese".

You will add a few hundred million to your 'potential friend' list.

You will achieve demi-god status if you ever set foot on Chinese soil.
posted by fix at 10:32 AM on August 30, 2013 [3 favorites]


Definitely watching Chinese/Taiwanese TV shows. Although subtitles are available, you gain so much more even if you understand just 50% of what they are saying (and use subtitles with). I have yet to find any English TV show that has the continuity and epic-ness that Chinese TV shows come with. And of course, the reality TV shows are hilarious.

Cost of living in China is not really that low anymore, if you want to live in comfort (i.e. in the city, with drinking water, good food, etc). BUT if you want to visit China and tour, you'll be much better off speaking Chinese. If you buy stuff, you want to be able to speak Chinese. (There are of course "English" speaking tour guides, but to me, they mostly sound like gibberish.)

And I find it just really culturally helpful to know more than one language, since so much of cultural expectations are embedded in languages.
posted by ethidda at 11:30 AM on August 30, 2013


According to another author, there will be high demand in future for people who have knowledge of Chinese language and business studies

Stopping in to say what whoever this author is, they likely have no experience at all in terms of how international business is done especially at the boundary of english and non-english markets.

The business value of learning Chinese is quite low and - to your specific question - making business use of such skills is in any case mutually incompatible with living in a low cost of living area of China.

There are a ton of people with reasonable English skills in that are fluent in Chinese. China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, expats of all kinds, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia and so on are full of people with moderate skills in multiple Chinese dialects and English and the mainlanders also have deep knowledge of appropriate etiquette which is at least as important as raw language talent.

These people inexpensively fill bottom rung guide/handler/translator roles. If you have any importance at all and are working with a big company, they will be assigned to you. If you have any business value at all, you will not be so capital constrained as to be unable to hire one. Further, without a great deal of effort your skills will be relatively poor in comparison.

The way to make money in business is to focus on skills that you cannot buy cheaply off the shelf. Focus on being an expert in a domain.

From that point of view, Chinese/English fluency is very expensive to acquire but very cheap to rent and any large company has a ton of this skill on staff -- any of the CMs, Huawei, etc. etc. all just assign someone to act as a handler.

By analogy, and this is an area where I have a lot of personal experience and very specific background, you should consider what happened to all of the people who learned Japanese for business reasons back in the late 80s. It a waste of time for pretty much all of them. Japanese fluency is actually relatively more valuable than Chinese because of the near total failure of the Japanese school system to produce people with any level of verbal English ability and the lack of any kind of equivalent to Hong Kong or Singapore cranking out fluent bilinguals. China OTOH has a vast pool of people who can navigate English, albeit not with fluency but almost certainly with more verbal fluency and absolutely more literacy than you will achieve with any kind of reasonable ROI.

Finally, I would add that there is an image thing that shows up in the Chinasphere. If you're white and you speak broken Chinese, it's much, much harder to maintain the kind of image a domain expert should have than just speaking fluent English and communicating your thoughts and vision clearly in a way that is only possible for most people in their native language. There is an underlying thinking process that if you were important at all you would just use one of the translators of varying but steadily improving quality provided to or hired by you. Think entourage dynamics.
posted by rr at 12:17 PM on August 30, 2013 [9 favorites]


The one advantage I'd really see for myself in learning Chinese at this point is that because of the large population of Chinese people globally a larger and larger percentage of the content on the internet will continue to be in Chinese and thus accessible to you if you can read it.

This is the biggest motivational factor for me. Granted, I've grown up with conversational Mandarin, and was required to learn it in school for 12 years, but it has eroded as I've spent more time in the Anglosphere as an adult. Today, I can't write anything without sounding like I'm in elementary school, I'm a bit less fluent in speaking Mandarin, but I so appreciate being able to read Chinese. The Chinese internet is immense, so if you think you'd want to keep a finger on the pulse of modern Chinese politics, art and culture (which may be attractive to an employer), then it would be extremely valuable to know the language. You also gain access to a number of predominantly Chinese (not necessarily Mandarin) cultures--Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, the Chinese diaspora--by dint of being able to read Chinese.
posted by peripathetic at 7:11 PM on August 30, 2013


If you already have an interest in China and Chinese language, and plan to study the language to an advanced level, I'd say it's worth it. However, unless you are enrolled in a very intensive program and/or plan to live in China/Taiwan for several years, advanced language levels can be hard to achieve.

However, personally, I lived in China for several years and the advanced level of Chinese I now have has helped me to get translation and interpretation jobs (in the U.S.), which seem to be pretty readily available and sometimes as a native English speaker I have an advantage.

I also worked with a State Department language program in China and witnessed many American students acquire great Chinese in relatively short periods of time with intensive study. I don't agree that knowing Chinese is useless in doing business, because I've witnessed people, including myself, get many more job opportunities because of their language skills. However it is true that you are probably not going to get rich ONLY because of your language skills; however, is DOES offer new opportunities for work and business.

The Foreign Service is another area that needs people with language skills.

So, no, if you're only trying to get a lucrative career, learning Chinese is not the way to do that- it's a pretty big investment. But it absolutely does open up new opportunities for you, especially if you learn it well and if you want to travel to and work in China.
posted by bearette at 7:35 PM on August 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


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