Help me apply to Google! (post-postdoc version)
August 28, 2013 10:12 PM Subscribe
I'm leaving academia (math), and I want to apply to work at Google and some other companies in the SF bay area. This will be my first job that isn't teaching/research, and the MANY potential opportunities are overwhelming me me a bit. Can you help me figure out which vaguely described jobs are likely good for me?
Likely relevant facts:
+ I have a PhD in math from a top ten university, and I completed a 3yr postdoc at an even "better" one. I want to leave academia despite doing very well in my position. I'm a strong problem solver, writer, teacher, and public speaker, and I have experience organizing small conferences and weekly seminars. I'm good at finding patterns and figuring out how to turn rough ideas into workable things.
+ I have a little coding experience, but would like to get way more into it. I can do basic things in Python (I'd estimate a semester college course's worth, but I'm not totally sure), and I have done the bits of JavaScript stuff covered in CodeAcademy. Currently working on a couple small projects. With my math background, I feel like planning/organizing programs is relatively easy for me, and at this stage, it's mostly getting familiar with the language.
I have done many bits of math-related programming, using Mathematica, Maple, Matlab, Gap, CoCoA, Macauley, etc. I am not an expert in any of these, but I've never had much trouble finding the right tool and writing sensible bits of code to generate examples I needed for math projects.
+ I'm pretty good with spreadsheets. I haven't learned about macros, but I can definitely deal with complicated formulas and things like vlookup tables.
+ I would want to be based in the bay area, though I am open to a job involving travel.
+ I can start as early as October, but I would prefer to wait until November or even a bit later if possible.
+ Things that are important to me: smart+personable coworkers, interesting projects that have practical applications, somewhat flexible hours (i.e. not starting at 8am every day), and an easy commute from Berkeley (for me, "easy" means public or company-provided transportation, ideally with just one leg, no connections; long is fine).
Questions:
+ How do I navigate the sea of Google's posted positions? Besides analyst positions (which jumped out when searching for "math"), what else should I be considering?
+ Do I try to pick say, 3-5 jobs which sound reasonable? Do I need to choose just one position to apply for? Apply for anything that seems a good fit?
Many of the postings sound very similar, so winnowing down the list feels very arbitrary. Besides, I'm ready for a change and open to many possibilities. I don't have my heart on doing any particular job at this point. I do want to work on something that feels practical/useful and that will use my intelligence.
+ Assuming I get an interview, will I have a chance to talk to a recruiter about my strengths vs. their needs and how to best place me? Is there a way to discuss various positions with such a person before explicitly applying?
+ How in the world do I start to think about salaries? (No ranges are posted with job descriptions.) Of course, if I could do well and enjoy a higher paid position basically as much as a lower paid one, I'd like more money. How do I figure out even a ballpark salary estimate for a given position?
Likely relevant facts:
+ I have a PhD in math from a top ten university, and I completed a 3yr postdoc at an even "better" one. I want to leave academia despite doing very well in my position. I'm a strong problem solver, writer, teacher, and public speaker, and I have experience organizing small conferences and weekly seminars. I'm good at finding patterns and figuring out how to turn rough ideas into workable things.
+ I have a little coding experience, but would like to get way more into it. I can do basic things in Python (I'd estimate a semester college course's worth, but I'm not totally sure), and I have done the bits of JavaScript stuff covered in CodeAcademy. Currently working on a couple small projects. With my math background, I feel like planning/organizing programs is relatively easy for me, and at this stage, it's mostly getting familiar with the language.
I have done many bits of math-related programming, using Mathematica, Maple, Matlab, Gap, CoCoA, Macauley, etc. I am not an expert in any of these, but I've never had much trouble finding the right tool and writing sensible bits of code to generate examples I needed for math projects.
+ I'm pretty good with spreadsheets. I haven't learned about macros, but I can definitely deal with complicated formulas and things like vlookup tables.
+ I would want to be based in the bay area, though I am open to a job involving travel.
+ I can start as early as October, but I would prefer to wait until November or even a bit later if possible.
+ Things that are important to me: smart+personable coworkers, interesting projects that have practical applications, somewhat flexible hours (i.e. not starting at 8am every day), and an easy commute from Berkeley (for me, "easy" means public or company-provided transportation, ideally with just one leg, no connections; long is fine).
Questions:
+ How do I navigate the sea of Google's posted positions? Besides analyst positions (which jumped out when searching for "math"), what else should I be considering?
+ Do I try to pick say, 3-5 jobs which sound reasonable? Do I need to choose just one position to apply for? Apply for anything that seems a good fit?
Many of the postings sound very similar, so winnowing down the list feels very arbitrary. Besides, I'm ready for a change and open to many possibilities. I don't have my heart on doing any particular job at this point. I do want to work on something that feels practical/useful and that will use my intelligence.
+ Assuming I get an interview, will I have a chance to talk to a recruiter about my strengths vs. their needs and how to best place me? Is there a way to discuss various positions with such a person before explicitly applying?
+ How in the world do I start to think about salaries? (No ranges are posted with job descriptions.) Of course, if I could do well and enjoy a higher paid position basically as much as a lower paid one, I'd like more money. How do I figure out even a ballpark salary estimate for a given position?
Do you know anyone at Google? Specifically, do you know anyone who knows your work well? If so, you want that person to put your resume in the pool (i.e. don't apply online, send them your CV and let them do it). They will not mind because if you get hired, Google pays them a few thousand dollars, so it's worth the trouble. They may be able to answer your questions in detail, or put you in touch with a recruiter who can answer them.
If you don't know anyone at Google, memail me.
posted by town of cats at 10:53 PM on August 28, 2013
If you don't know anyone at Google, memail me.
posted by town of cats at 10:53 PM on August 28, 2013
Best answer: Before I get into your questions, I have to ask: why Google, specifically? I was in the same position as you (save for the PhD) and while Google's a great company to have your sights set on, it can't be the only one. There are a lot of good companies out there. Anyway, from what I've heard, Google has an impressively byzantine recruiting and interview process and it usually takes months for (even very well qualified) people to hear back from a recruiter once they've submitted an app. Then the rounds of interviews and build-up to an offer can take another couple of months, and that's if you hear back from them at all. While I'm sure part of it has to do with the volume of applications that they receive, I'm not sure why Google operates this way, but there it is.
FYI, at Google, these positions are for the most part pretty much equivalent: quantitative analyst == statistician/engineering analyst == statistician == data scientist. There might be some difference in the levels within positions due to people having more experience or education, though. Not sure about the other analyst positions, though.
There are quite a few research positions for PhDs that you might want to consider as well, especially if your research skews to the more applied side of things. Not sure how many pure math PhDs they hire though. I wouldn't consider the software engineer positions until you get more coding/engineering experience (at least a couple years' worth of just that.)
As for transportation, I know that Google has a shuttle stop at the North Berkeley BART station and at least a couple of stops in Oakland. Beyond that, not sure.
One last thing: if you think a data science/analysis role might be your thing, then, given your academic background, you really should check out the Insight Data Science Fellows Program.
Hope this helps!
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:12 PM on August 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
+ How do I navigate the sea of Google's posted positions? Besides analyst positions (which jumped out when searching for "math"), what else should I be considering?Depending on what you worked on for your PhD, and if you have some statistics background, the quantitative analyst jobs might be good places to start. However, you will absolutely have to know R to have a chance at landing one of those jobs, as well as SQL. Almost all of their analytic work is done in R and they're one of the only places I know of to have their own R style guide. They also have some pretty impressive R-based tools that leverage their compute infrastructure, of which I'm pretty jealous.
FYI, at Google, these positions are for the most part pretty much equivalent: quantitative analyst == statistician/engineering analyst == statistician == data scientist. There might be some difference in the levels within positions due to people having more experience or education, though. Not sure about the other analyst positions, though.
There are quite a few research positions for PhDs that you might want to consider as well, especially if your research skews to the more applied side of things. Not sure how many pure math PhDs they hire though. I wouldn't consider the software engineer positions until you get more coding/engineering experience (at least a couple years' worth of just that.)
+ Assuming I get an interview, will I have a chance to talk to a recruiter about my strengths vs. their needs and how to best place me? Is there a way to discuss various positions with such a person before explicitly applying?Yes, and sort-of-yes! If you get an interview, you'll have had the chance to talk to a recruiter beforehand about your background, your skills and what you're interested in. They want to get an idea of which roles you'd be a good fit for, too! If you want to find out before you apply, though, then try reaching out to some Google recruiters on LinkedIn.
+ How in the world do I start to think about salaries? (No ranges are posted with job descriptions.) Of course, if I could do well and enjoy a higher paid position basically as much as a lower paid one, I'd like more money. How do I figure out even a ballpark salary estimate for a given position?Check Glassdoor: they're not too far off the mark, and check salaries for the same position at similar companies. Keep in mind that the salaries on Glassdoor often don't take into account bonuses, stock grants/RSUs, and other comp/benefits.
As for transportation, I know that Google has a shuttle stop at the North Berkeley BART station and at least a couple of stops in Oakland. Beyond that, not sure.
One last thing: if you think a data science/analysis role might be your thing, then, given your academic background, you really should check out the Insight Data Science Fellows Program.
Hope this helps!
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:12 PM on August 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Join LinkedIn (if you haven't already). Do you have contacts with previous students (who may have gone off to work in your field already)?
Don't limit to Google. There are many other tech companies who LOVE data. Also, many non-tech companies LOVE data. Like banks.
Pick ~3 job search terms and stick with them. "Analyst" (business, quantitative, statistical) is a very good one. Another could be "quality" or "six-sigma", especially if you have experience with DOE and modeling and probability, including failure rates.
If you have time you may want to read a bit about project management, six-sigma, FMEA. Learn a bit of business lingo. Read a "dummies" book on MBA material, so you know the money side of business a little. You don't need an MBA, but just be familiar with the concepts.
Try to get "informational interviews" where you chat with people who work in the current position, to understand the position in general and their company in specific. This is not a job interview. Just take 'em out to lunch and chat.
I would expect $50-$80k to start, but it may be more in the SF area due to local prices being so high, and it may be even more because of your advanced PhD status and Big Name University. DO NOT START AS A JUNIOR ANYTHING. You have an advanced PhD. Intermediate at the least, but shoot for Senior. Also, glassdoor is a good reference.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:23 AM on August 29, 2013
Don't limit to Google. There are many other tech companies who LOVE data. Also, many non-tech companies LOVE data. Like banks.
Pick ~3 job search terms and stick with them. "Analyst" (business, quantitative, statistical) is a very good one. Another could be "quality" or "six-sigma", especially if you have experience with DOE and modeling and probability, including failure rates.
If you have time you may want to read a bit about project management, six-sigma, FMEA. Learn a bit of business lingo. Read a "dummies" book on MBA material, so you know the money side of business a little. You don't need an MBA, but just be familiar with the concepts.
Try to get "informational interviews" where you chat with people who work in the current position, to understand the position in general and their company in specific. This is not a job interview. Just take 'em out to lunch and chat.
I would expect $50-$80k to start, but it may be more in the SF area due to local prices being so high, and it may be even more because of your advanced PhD status and Big Name University. DO NOT START AS A JUNIOR ANYTHING. You have an advanced PhD. Intermediate at the least, but shoot for Senior. Also, glassdoor is a good reference.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:23 AM on August 29, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks guys, all of this was helpful. I'm definitely looking at lots of companies, but sheer size was getting to me on the google stuff. I have some friends of friends there, but nobody I know particularly well, so town of cats, I may be in touch soon.
posted by ktkt at 2:16 PM on August 30, 2013
posted by ktkt at 2:16 PM on August 30, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would spend a lot of time between now and your interview improving your coding, data structures, and algorithms skills.
posted by jewzilla at 10:36 PM on August 28, 2013